Author Topic: What skills can't you live without?  (Read 104784 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12398
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #180 on: October 27, 2009, 10:42:29 AM »
Taxing 23 and 24 can be taken straight from the minimum skills topic, since both of those only give you builders...
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #181 on: October 27, 2009, 12:55:10 PM »
6 builders. And that's the last of Wicked and ONML. I'll hold off on posting a total score for ONML until I've checked through again, since I noticed that some of the Wicked scores in particular are beatable. For now, I'll mention 19 (5 builders, 2 bashers) and 20 (1 builder only).

And 18 (2 builders only).  No surprise there, but since you didn't mention it, I might as well stuff the replay in.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 10:10:18 AM by Minim »

Offline Minim

  • Posts: 1724
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #182 on: October 27, 2009, 05:06:53 PM »
Here are the first 9 levels of Blitz:

1: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 8 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger
2: 10 builders, 1 digger
3: 1 digger
4: 1 basher, 1 builder
5: 7 builders
6: 1 basher
7: 6 builders
8: 2 builders, 2 bashers
9: 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 13 builders.

I'm sure that Level 9 works with 11 builders, but I'm getting sick of this repetition in the level. Here a 13 builder replay for it so you get the idea.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 06:16:57 AM by Minim »
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline LemSteven

  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #183 on: October 27, 2009, 06:54:33 PM »
Wicked 11: 

[...]

The minimum number of builders I've managed is 3.  I highly doubt this is beatable.

You need 3 builders to cross two builder-sized gaps? I don't buy that for a second. ;P

Here's a replay with 2 builders.

Well Clam, you beat me to it again!  :P  I was originally using the low road solution for the end of the level, where the gap requires two builders to cross.  It was getting late, so I went to bed shortly after posting that score.

The possibility of using the high road for a two-builder solution dawned on me as I was getting ready for bed, but I had already shut the computer down and didn't want to turn it back on again to check and see if it worked.  I was still a bit nervous as to whether or not the remaining skills were sufficient to support a 2-builder solution.

As for Wicked 19, I am absolutely certain at least one of the bashers can be eliminated.  I'm not certain about the other one, but there's a good chance that it can be avoided as well.

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #184 on: October 27, 2009, 07:48:44 PM »
You're saying it can be done with builders only? I'm sure someone would have found it by now if it was possible.



Here are the first 9 levels of Blitz:

1: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 8 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

It's already been established that the climber and floater are unnecessary.

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #185 on: October 27, 2009, 08:43:26 PM »
Here's my 5th (at least) challenge solution for Blitz 7 (although I don't think I uploaded them all). 1 builder. This time with the regular skillset rather than the "cheat mode" of one of each skill. :)

Offline Pooty

  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #186 on: October 27, 2009, 10:38:03 PM »
I've had a stab at two Mayhem levels; 13 and 23.

Mayhem 13 can be done with 1 builder. I've tried for ages to find a no-builder solution, but it just isn't working for me due to a lack of diggers. You can also beat this level without using any climbers, floaters or bashers.

My latest score with Mayhem 23 is 5 builders & 1 basher. The blockers and the floater are not necessary.
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Pooty

  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #187 on: October 28, 2009, 01:26:41 AM »
Mayhem 28 is 5 builders & 1 basher using the ceiling route (I also used a digger, but you can beat the level without using one).
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #188 on: October 28, 2009, 01:37:27 AM »
Meanwhile, I've been working through Taxing...

17: By building up to the top, you can get through with one basher. So far I haven't been able to eliminate the last builder, but I just thought of something...
25: 3 builders, thanks to my patented "slingshot" technique (at least that's what I call it :)). Replay attached, although this is much easier than previous solutions that use this trick. Bashers and bombers are fairly easy to eliminate individually.
26: 5 builders. I thought I posted this replay somewhere, but I can't find it on the forums, so here it is.
27: It's been shown already that the bombers and blockers can be left. Whichever route you take, it seems you need 6 builders.
30: 7 diggers (and 9 diggers for Mayhem 11)

Taxing 23 and 24 can be taken straight from the minimum skills topic, since both of those only give you builders...

That would be 12 and 5 builders, respectively.


Mayhem 13 can be done with 1 builder. I've tried for ages to find a no-builder solution, but it just isn't working for me due to a lack of diggers. You can also beat this level without using any climbers, floaters or bashers.

I tried this one a while ago while looking for "no-builder challenges", and came to the same conclusion.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 06:48:19 AM by Minim »

Offline Pooty

  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #189 on: October 28, 2009, 02:13:54 AM »
25: 3 builders, thanks to my patented "slingshot" technique (at least that's what I call it :))
Hmm.. that's a really good trick. I wonder if it can be used to reduce the number of builders I use on Mayhem 23.

Edit: IT WORKED!! :thumbsup:
So Mayhem 23 is now reduced to 4 builders & 1 basher.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 06:52:04 AM by Minim »
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline LemSteven

  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #190 on: October 28, 2009, 03:34:03 AM »
You're saying it can be done with builders only? I'm sure someone would have found it by now if it was possible.

Oops.  Taking another look at the level, one basher is clearly necessary.  I forgot you need to bash through the pillar at the end of the upper route.  :-[

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #191 on: October 28, 2009, 04:26:03 AM »
Hmm.. that's a really good trick. I wonder if it can be used to reduce the number of builders I use on Mayhem 23.

Edit: IT WORKED!! :thumbsup:
So Mayhem 23 is now reduced to 4 builders & 1 basher.

Now it's my turn to be impressed. That's a fantastic effort. :thumbsup:

I wonder if you could eliminate the basher by bombing through the wall instead? It looks like at least 14 bombers are needed to break through (maybe fewer with steel glitches), since each bomber can take out 12 pixels if you block it into the wall first.

Offline LemSteven

  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #192 on: October 28, 2009, 07:14:29 AM »
Now to look at that big gap in early Mayhem:

Mayhem 4:  From the "1 type of skill" thread, both a bombers-only and a bashers-only solution exist.  Therefore this one is None.

Mayhem 5:  5 builders and 4 blockers are needed to reach the exit.  Everything else can be avoided pretty easily.

Mayhem 6:  The level can be done with builders only, so the other skills are automatically eliminated.  The best I've managed so far is 6 builders.

Mayhem 7:  The eleven-skill solution from the minimum skills thread uses three builders, three diggers, a climber, and four bashers.  The climber can be eliminated, as can one of the bashers, so we end up with 3 builders, 3 bashers, and 3 diggers.

Mayhem 8:  I just completed the level using only builders, blockers, and bombers.  The blockers and bombers certainly aren't needed, so it comes down to builders only.  3 builders are needed to get to the one-way wall.

Offline Minim

  • Posts: 1724
    • View Profile
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #193 on: October 28, 2009, 08:10:37 AM »
Done the rest of Blitz:

10: 3 builders
11: 8 builders
12: 6 builders
13: 8 builders, 2 blockers, 1 bomber, 1 basher
14: None
15: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 2 bombers, 2 builders, 1 basher
16: 2 bombers, 1 builder, 1 basher
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12398
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #194 on: October 28, 2009, 01:04:05 PM »
Taxing 29:
Climbers: Replay using none attached.
Floaters: No replay needed - dig and bash the edge instead of floating it.
Bombers: No replay needed - use dig pits instead of blocking then bombing to release.
Blockers: No replay needed - use dig pits instead of blocking then bombing to release.
Builders: No replay needed - one is needed to get across the middle, every other place a builder is used, a blocker can perform the task instead.
Bashers: No replay needed - anywhere they may be useful, miners and diggers can be substituted.
Miners: Replay using none attached.
Diggers: No replay needed - anywhere they may be useful, blockers/bashers/miners can be substituted.

In short: 1 builder is obvious to cross the middle gap, all others can be avoided quite easily. Attached replays show no-climber and no-miner solutions. All other skills can be easily substituted with other skills.

Therefore, just like it's easier version, Taxing 29 comes down to: 1 builder

For those who can't watch replays:

Avoiding the climber: Use the sliding glitch to get a lemming up the top to mine down. To do this, bash part way into the right area, then stop mid-bash, the rest of performing the glitch here is quite easy.
Avoiding the miner: Use alternating diggers and bashers to lower the height required, then build up to where the climber comes out.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 06:54:50 AM by Minim »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)