Author Topic: What skills can't you live without?  (Read 46137 times)

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Offline Proxima

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #270 on: April 23, 2018, 02:24:17 pm »
So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #271 on: April 24, 2018, 12:47:56 am »
So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Not quite. We still don't have any result for Mayhem 2 of Prima. :P
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Offline LemSteven

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #272 on: April 24, 2018, 03:27:54 am »
So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Nice one!  I just solved it without watching the video.  I'm truly shocked nobody found this one earlier, especially since I had experimented with a similar solution for the "Under 1 minute" thread.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #273 on: April 24, 2018, 08:08:26 am »
So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Nice one!  I just solved it without watching the video.  I'm truly shocked nobody found this one earlier, especially since I had experimented with a similar solution for the "Under 1 minute" thread.

I can't replicate the youtube video in legacy Lemmix, the steps seem too wide and the basher stops after one stroke.  LemSteven/Proxima, did either of you have a chance to actually try it out in either Lemmix or DOS Lemmings?

I'm not well versed enough in what mechanics were tweaked in NeoLemmix to apparently make it possible there, maybe someone else can chime in.

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #274 on: April 24, 2018, 08:38:06 am »
I didn't see Nessy's solution in the video, but if it's what I think it is...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...then no, this will not work on DOS / vanilla Lemmix. NeoLemmix's basher is a fair bit more sensitive than the DOS L1 basher.
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Offline Proxima

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #275 on: April 24, 2018, 08:56:41 am »
Hmm. I tested it on the Lemmix Player I have, but now that I look again at the player, it has "Lemmings, NeoLemmix Edition" on the main menu screen. Sorry about the confusion :( Where does one get vanilla Lemmix players these days?

Offline LemSteven

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #276 on: April 25, 2018, 01:41:44 am »
I did my solution in DOSBox, and it turns out it was completely different from Nessy's solution (which I believe doesn't work in DOS):

The Basic Idea: (click to show/hide)

Solution (click to show/hide)

Offline Minim

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #277 on: May 25, 2019, 09:07:33 am »
So, I decided to take a look at the last level that hasn't been looked at at all: Prima Mayhem 2: "Which way do we go?".

My first result so far is 5 builders. I was able to navigate round the level saving all the other skills apart from builders, replays attached. The real question is whether it can be done with just 1 builder. The 100% requirement, the land being littered with traps and the turnaround needed to use the left exit makes this more challenging.

Edit: Now down to 4. Didn't realise I had a basher left over in the 5 builder solution to bash underneath the first left trap.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 09:24:28 am by Minim »
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Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #278 on: August 02, 2019, 10:42:58 pm »
So, I decided to take a look at L3D in this challenge. While it probably won't be as interesting as the L1-type games, the large number of backroutes might at least make it somewhat interesting.

Here's some baseline suggestions for (most of) Fun.

Fun 1 "Take A Dive" - 1 turner
Fun 2 "That's Right" - 2 diggers (don't worry about crowd control, just use the diggers, and you'll save 4 more than required)
Fun 3 "The Bean Machine" - 3 builders
Fun 4 "It's A Run Around" - 1 turner, 2 diggers
Fun 5 "Bounce Bounce" - 7 turners
Fun 6 "It's A Blast" - 4 bombers
Fun 7 "Candyland Climber" - 1 bomber, 1 basher, 2 climbers (I did quickly try a go-under-the-cane route, but I can only save 3 that way, and at any rate still use all of these skills)
Fun 10 "Castle Lemmalot" - 2 builders (This is simply the save-all solution)
Fun 12 "Alpine Assault Course" - 1 turner, 5 bombers
Fun 13 "Tower Of Stone" - 13 turners, 2 builders, 20 floaters
Fun 14 "Slippery Maze" - 6 turners (using the invisible route)
Fun 15 "The M-A-Z-E" - 4 turners, 1 basher (I can find three different routes with these skills - one of which makes a huge improvement in terms of time taken - but none without them)
Fun 16 "Down The Middle We Go" - 4 turners, 1 builder, 1 digger
Fun 17 "Hole In Ten" - 1 blocker, 2 bashers, 1 floater
Fun 18 "Corkscrew Digger", Fun 19 "Attack Of The 50ft Lemmings" - ??? (I'll leave these ones to the people who've found existing really-impressive solutions to these two levels, I suck at them)
Fun 20 "Alilemms" - 4 turners, 1 builder
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 11:15:53 pm by namida »
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Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #279 on: August 02, 2019, 11:00:06 pm »
Fun 19 on 3D Lemmings is 2 turners.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #280 on: August 02, 2019, 11:34:10 pm »
Continuing with L3D, here's a start on Tricky.

Tricky 1 "Jelly Climber" - 2 turners, 8 climbers (this is just the normal solution, but letting two lemmings die instead of making them climbers)
Tricky 2 "Which Exit?" - 2 blockers
Tricky 3 "This Is The Army" - 1 bomber, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 climber, 1 floater (basically just the normal solution, executed really carefully)
Tricky 4 "Fore!" - 3 turners, 2 builders, 1 miner
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Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #281 on: August 02, 2019, 11:51:42 pm »
Corkscrew Digger is currently 4 turners and 8 miners. 8 miners is the normal solution, and I see no way of improving on it at the moment. I have attached a replay for the 4 turner solution because it's quite messy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #282 on: August 03, 2019, 03:40:23 am »
Worked on the next 5 levels, and here's what I've come up with:

Tricky 6 "Lemmhanger" - 2 blockers, 5 turners, 2 builders, 1 basher (the digger is not required to pass the level)
Tricky 10 "Tooten Lemming" - 5 turners, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #283 on: August 03, 2019, 03:52:54 am »
I'll leave Tricky 11 for someone else, but for Tricky 12 "Dot To Dot", I suspect this route was already used in the max saved solution (I don't know for sure, I haven't tried to get max-saved on this one), which - without trying to save extra lemmings - uses 11 turners and 17 builders. (It is vaguely possible this route was overlooked, due to that it involves a frame-perfect builder assignment half way through - I knew the "skip from 4 to 9" solution a long time ago, but this one is "skip from 3 to 10" via the frame-perfect assignment.)

EDIT: Nevermind, the max saved solution - when adjusted to not worry about saving as many as possible - reduces this to 5 turners + 11 builders (additionally requiring either a 6th turner or a bomber, but since either is an option, that doesn't matter for this challenge - and that's if that extra skill is still needed at all when not worrying about saving the max).
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 04:38:47 am by namida »
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #284 on: August 03, 2019, 02:09:41 pm »
Finishing off the rest of Tricky. There could be room for improvement for some of these.

Tricky 11 "A Head Above the Rest" - 14 turners, 1 builder, 2 bashers

Tricky 13 "Shadow Maze" - 6 turners
Tricky 16 "Lemlab" - 3 turners, 1 builder, 2 bashers
Tricky 17 "Garden Maze" - 4 turners, 1 bomber, 1 climber (digger not required)
Tricky 18 "Play Time" - 3 bashers, 1 digger, 1 climber (second climber not required)
Tricky 19 "Stilt Walkers" - 4 turners, 2 builders
Tricky 20 "King Coder's Tomb" - 5 turners, 1 builder, 1 digger
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]