Author Topic: What skills can't you live without?  (Read 44126 times)

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Offline Luis

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #255 on: February 10, 2014, 08:14:24 pm »
Thanks to this challenge, I'm finding mistakes in the levels but that also means more fixing. :( This is what I got so far.

1.Climb to victory
1 Climber

2.Save the Lemmings with Floaters
1 Climber 1 Floater

3. Dig Down, Bash Across
1 Climber 1 Basher

4. Block first, Explode second
2 Blocker 2 Bomber

5. Bridge Across, Mine Through
3 Builder 2 Miner

6. Bash in the Direction of the Arrows
1 Builder 4 Basher

7. Crystal point
4 Builder 3 Basher

8. So near, so far
5 Climber 2 Builder

9. Pillar talking
5 Builder

10. Just 17
2 Builder 2 Basher

11. Down the line
2 Basher 1 Digger
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #256 on: February 10, 2014, 08:38:42 pm »
Can you remind me where I can download the PSP levels you remade?

Offline Luis

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #257 on: February 10, 2014, 11:53:34 pm »
Their in the database. I'm currently fixing level 10 Just 17. I already have the results for that level, I'm just fixing the alternative solution where you go to the bottom. It uses more skills, so it's not better than the top path, which is the intended one. In Pillar talking, if you dig on the pillar, you're forced to use builder or miner to stop him, because in the old Lemmings a digger will keep digging even though he's only removing the edge, like this:

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Offline Luis

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #258 on: February 11, 2014, 11:31:46 pm »
Seeing double! has steel terrains that are breakable and because of this, you can beat it with one less basher. Should I remove the steel in the Lemmix version and make it possible to break it there too, or should I just leave it there? This can cause both the PSP and Lemmix version of this level to have different results, if I leave it there.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #259 on: February 12, 2014, 12:40:04 am »
Up to you.  I guess it would be a nice bonus if every solution that works on the PSP also works on the Lemmix version.  For me, I think I would worry more about having solutions that only works in the Lemmix version and is much easier than the intended solutions on PSP, in other words backroutes that are specific to Lemmix.

Offline Luis

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #260 on: February 12, 2014, 03:36:37 pm »
I removed the steel so the level can resemble the real one more. I also took out the ones in Release is the word. There's actually a solution that only works in Lemmix in Tunnel vision, that was found by Akseli.  You can beat it without using basher. The miner can destroy pieces of terrains that are behind him and it creates a ceiling that stops climbers from going where the top entrance is. I put a replay in the attachment so you can see it. Here's the link to the level:
http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichYLEglMZXZlbFBhY2sYgICAgKCSnwoM/

12. A to B
2 Basher

13. Chain reaction
5 Bombers

14. Tunnel vision
5 Climber 1 Builder 1 Basher 1 Miner
Lemmix doesn't need bashers

15. Two good friends
1 Basher 1 Digger

16. One man does all the hard work
1 Builder 1 Basher

17. Release is the word
2 Builder

18. The run around
1 Climber 4 Builder 2 Basher

19 Three steps to heaven
7 Builder

20. Lemming toast
2 Builder

21. Seeing double!
2 Climber 1 Blocker 2 Builder 3 Basher

22. The Wormery
6 Builder 2 Miner

23. The Flood
7 Builder 3 Basher

24. ...with a little help from my Lem
2 Climbler 3 Basher 2 Digger

25. Not as easy as it looks
3 Digger

26. Back of the net!
1 Blocker 2 Basher

27. Wrong points of view
4 Builder

28. Float in Light, at Lemming Head Height
1 Floater 3 Builder

29. A Bridge Over Lemming Slaughter
3 Builder 2 Basher

30. The stairs are not floored
2. Builder

31. Quickly now
5 Builder

32. Gather round and break away
1 Builder

33. Cagey business
1 Floater 5 Builder 1 Basher

34. Born a blocker, die a blocker
10 Climber 9 Blocker

35. No justice for the hero
1 Builder 1 Digger 1 Miner

36. Notch what you thin it is!
1 Builder 1 Digger
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Offline Luis

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #261 on: February 18, 2014, 09:10:34 pm »
I finished it.

28 Climber

2 Floater

7 Bomber

4 Blocker

72 Builder

33 Basher

5 Miner

7 Digger
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Offline Proxima

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #262 on: February 18, 2014, 09:40:43 pm »
Excellent work! I've added these to the first post, though, as Lemmings PSP is a separate platform, I haven't added them to the grand total.

Offline Luis

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #263 on: February 18, 2014, 09:47:27 pm »
I also did the challenge on the remakes of the PSP levels in Lemmix. You can download the them in the database and test it yourself. The total number of bashers in Lemmix is 32, since it doesn't need basher in Tunnel vision.
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Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #264 on: May 22, 2014, 06:26:05 am »
Covox Lemmings Demo
Fun 1: None. This is easy.
Fun 2: It can be solved using only builders. I can't do it with no builders, but I managed a 1-builder solution, thanks to the overly generous amount of climbers (well everything really, but climbers is what was useful here). Someone who's better at the precise timing needed can probably reduce that to zero with the blocker-push-into-wall glitch.
Tricky 1: Again, one builder. Kind of obvious where you need it; the remainder can be handled by the ol' alternate-bashers-and-diggers-to-create-steep-ramp trick.
Tricky 2: 21 Climbers, 1 Bomber, 2 Builders. No way around it, you need every skill you're given.

I'll do the remaining 4 levels another time, unless someone else does them first.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #265 on: June 05, 2014, 09:25:53 am »
Taxing 1: You can get the builders down to 7 fairly easily (well, it does take advantage of an oversight and one minor trick, replay attached anyway). Anything else can be eliminated pretty easily except for 1 basher. So final answer seems to be 7 builders, 1 basher.

Taxing 2: 7 builders are required to get to the exit. Everything else can be eliminated very easily.

Mayhem 1: 2 builders. This is insanely easy.

Mayhem 2: None. Also very easy. The one point that may be tricky is the traps - but their positioning is such that even on such a thin platform, you can dig and bash under them to bypass them.



Unless there's something I missed on Tricky 2 (and I highly doubt it), I'd say the only room for improvement in any of these is Fun 2. As I said; I'm sure someone with more patience than me can knock off that last builder.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #266 on: January 07, 2015, 10:49:56 am »
Prima
Fun 1 - None. This is easy.
Fun 2 - 1 Climber, 1 Blocker, 1 Builder, 1 Miner, 1 Digger. The bomber is obviously not needed but everything else seems to be essential. I can get 97% without using either the blocker or the digger (but using the bomber), or 96% with only the climber, the bomber and the builder. But it requires 98%.
Fun 3 - None, also an easy one.
Fun 4 - 2 Builders, 1 Basher. Replay attached, but it's really just a matter of using the terrain to create a wall with only two builders instead of needing three. There might be more, but I could only find one exact place where this could be done, and both builders needed to be pixel-precise. (Worth noting is that it's possible without the basher under CustLemm mechanics, but not under OhNo mechanics which is what (AFAIK) Prima uses. This solution simply involves a three-builder wall and the other 7 builders to build over the obstacle. The fall however is too far under OhNo mechanics; while you could build to a direct drop into the exit if you were to use the same two-builder wall from my replay, as far as I can tell there's no way to keep the crowd at bay long enough to do so.)

Tricky 1 - 1 Builder. This is simple.
Tricky 2 - 6 Bombers. The remainder, you can choose between a blocker or two extra bombers, so only the 6 bombers are common to both.
Tricky 3 - 1 Builder + 1 Digger is possible. 1 Floater + 1 Bomber + 1 Builder is possible. Both are fairly obvious solutions. I can't find any way without a builder so: 1 Builder.
Tricky 4 - (see below) + 1 Digger can be done with a somewhat unusual trick (replay attached). There's an obvious solution with only two diggers. Given the level layout, it's very obvious you can't do it without at least one digger; so that's the answer here: 1 Digger.

I'll do Taxing and Mayhem soon, probably.


I highly recommend trying the one-digger solution to Tricky 4 for yourself before watching the replay. :)
The total skills used in it are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #267 on: January 07, 2015, 12:38:45 pm »
Continuing with Prima...

Taxing 1 - Can be solved with just builders plus a single floater. Minimum builders I can manage it with is 11, and this solution does not need a floater. It's not a very tricky solution, but it does take advantage of an oversight in the level's design that you'd probably notice anyway while attempting this. So: 11 Builders.
Taxing 2 - There's at least one spot where you can dig to solve it with just a single digger (and a release rate change). It can also be solved fairly trivially with just the builders. So: None.
Taxing 3 - Ugh, I hate this level even without challenges. So, I can manage 2 Builders, 2 Bashers, 2 Diggers. By exploiting the exact position of the trigger areas, it's also possible to do with 1 Floater and all of the destructive skills bar 2 diggers (eliminating the builders). The first solution, it's possible to substitute a miner for a digger with very good timing, but I can't reduce the bashers. So it seems: 2 Bashers, 1 Digger.
Taxing 4 - Fairly obvious solution with 2 Blockers, 2 Builders and a Miner. (If you need a hint, cram the blockers as close together as possible and you should be able to work the rest out). A digger and a basher can substitute the miner, but due to the thin terrain and limited builders, I'm willing to say the blockers are the only way to contain the crowd, and 2 builders are absolutely essential to the solution, so: 2 Blockers, 2 Builders.

Mayhem 1: The obvious solution here is a Builder and a Digger. A not-so-obvious one (direct drop xD) can be done with a Digger and a Floater. The digger is very clearly not avoidable. So: 1 Digger.
Mayhem 2: Not going to try this one right now, it's the kind that's very annoying for this challenge. I'll probably come back to it later.
Mayhem 3: A direct-drop variant of the obvious solution can be done with 1 Floater, 1 Bomber, 2 Blockers, 4 Builders. By stretching the builders as far as you can from the edge and placing two more after top-edge-hits, you can do this same solution without a floater. By using every spare builder you have as delays, you can do this same solution with only one blocker. I don't see any way to avoid the other blocker or at least 4 builders, so: 1 Blocker, 4 Builders.
Mayhem 4: The only skill that isn't possible to rule out very easily is builders. As for the minimum of them, it's fairly easy to tell it won't be any lower than 7. While not overly hard, it isn't overly easy to do it either - but 7 is indeed doable. :) so: 7 Builders.

WORTH NOTING: The Mayhem 3 1-blocker solution also saves 97% (78/80) lemmings, breaking the current record listed here. I've posted a replay in that topic.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Simon

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #268 on: January 07, 2015, 10:37:40 pm »
At least in Dosbox, Prima-Tricky-4 can be done with 1 digger, 1 basher, finishing with 5 seconds left on the timer. RR to 99, dig the central pillar as far right as possible, bash to stop the digger. The crowd walks to the level's right and back in time.

namida, what extra condition would you suggest to enforce the more interesting 1-digger route?

Level codes for tricky: 2. DLCI JLL GCR, 3. HCAN LNL HCU, 4. CIOL LDL ICY.

-- Simon

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #269 on: January 08, 2015, 01:37:42 am »
I prefer "TRICKY2", "TRICKY3" and "TRICKY4" myself, yay for Lemmix. :P

But anyway, while I'm not 100% sure that this'll enforce it (though it should), an additional requirement to make the more interesting solution: Solve the level in 1 minute.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings