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Messages - Simon

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3406
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: September 22, 2014, 11:31:47 PM »
No idea at all yet even with 3-letter words, here's a batch of koans in Deutsch.

KRAUT
UND
RUEBEN
DIE
LASS
LIEGEN
NAGETIER

-- Simon

3407
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: September 21, 2014, 04:32:06 PM »
No, merely that minimac would abort this round that starts with initial koans of YES and NO if you wanted to host a round.

YE
SAY
NOT
YEAH
YESSIR

-- Simon

3408
Help & Guides / Re: computing score
« on: September 17, 2014, 10:32:23 PM »
apparently getting to a point where he seems to have confused time limits in levels with the use of time as a component of a scoring or ranking system
I think the point here was more that because time limits are supposedly falling out of favor

Yes, I meant this. It's useful because there exist levels without time limit, or because the time limit might change without affecting the solution. Asserting normalness of anything was unnecessary.

I will concede the point around "the player thinks like this". I will assert that many players think like this.

Arbitrary/mashup scoring, like time limits, I deem it a design leftover from the early days of video gaming. When it's the main objective of a game, fine. If not, it dwells as one of many possible playful challenges, valued only by the few strongest enthusiasts of the game -- but then again this cannot be used as an argument against lexicographic scoring.

Quote from: Proxima
Expressing this as a single number is psychologically satisfying and makes comparison easy

I don't see how a single number is more satisfying, this is the same assertion of "most people feel like this" that you refuse to buy from me. If it's a challenge and not the main objective, then why mash up three ideas arbitrarily? What is the design history of this result? Do you have levels where you cannot get/kill everything and thus have to decide what to get?

If Repton is an example for the mashed scoring, then Sokoban (moves including pushing moves rank over pushes) and Laser Tank (moves rank over shots) are examples for the lexicographic scoring. The people in those communities wouln't want to switch to mashed scoring.

-- Simon

3409
Help & Guides / Re: computing score
« on: September 17, 2014, 09:24:54 AM »
for example, some people think lemmings saved should be the highest priority, with skills used as second, and finally time as least significant

Yes, and with two good reasons.

If a scoring system doesn't match the user's valuation, it will be ignored.

When ranking lemmings first, then skills, then time, it is easy to compare solutions at a glance before they are even executed. If a skill were worth 10 seconds (the necessary choice of arbitrary number feels already bad), it would not be so clear. If a skill were worth some arbitrary, very large number of seconds, you get an obfuscated version of (lemmings first, then skills, then time).

The only benefit I see in a mashed-together scoring system is slight ease of implementation, because the programmer has to save a single value only. I don't see any other use of mashing everything into a single number, because the player doesn't think like this at all. Slight ease of implementation should be shunned in comparison to a more natural-feeling system.

Also, ime limits are not the norm anymore in contemporary level design, except where it's the only way to fix backroutes. Compute solution times as if there were no time limit, counting up from zero.

Quote from: namida
in other words, the score is only updated when a lemming is saved, not every time a second passes. This is so that it isn't a rush to exit the level as quickly as possible after saving the last lemming.

This is a very important and excellent suggestion.

-- Simon

3410
General Discussion / Re: Logic Puzzles
« on: September 13, 2014, 04:50:33 PM »
I guess c (large green circle), for it shares each property with another item, unlike the other items.

This of course has no logical solution and we can only guess what the problem author wants.

-- Simon

3411
I advise to compute these scores until when the last lemming is saved. Anything afterwards should not count against the player. Otherwise, you discourage fast-forwarding and impose a guessing game of when to nuke for the shortest total time.

Do you mean last lemming saved, or last lemming required? Lix takes the former, but the latter would make more sense in terms of completing the level.

I am thinking of last lemming saved.

We value solutions higher if more lemmings are saved, only comparing skill count if solutions have equal save count, and comparing times only if lemmings and skills are equal. The ranking should reflect this traditional valuation.

Minimizing skills or time is challenge material or needs special announcement that a solution strives for this.

-- Simon

3412
I advise to compute these scores until when the last lemming is saved. Anything afterwards should not count against the player. Otherwise, you discourage fast-forwarding and impose a guessing game of when to nuke for the shortest total time.

There are a few levels where nuking is part of the solution. The nuke is not considered a skill for these traditionally.

-- Simon

3413
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: September 07, 2014, 12:03:24 PM »
CA
CM
OP
OR
RS

-- Simon

3414
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: September 07, 2014, 10:59:28 AM »
CLIX
CPLUSPLUS
SPROUT
SCHPAM
CLAMSPAMMER

-- Simon

3415
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: September 07, 2014, 10:42:34 AM »
Quote from: Ramon
do the 26 single-letter koans

Personally, I find that really cheap  :P but it's just me.

This is a phenomenon of turnless Zendo.

In the turn-based game, you do this per turn: Make a new koan to be marked, possibly earn guessing attempts, and then use as many guessing attemps as you like. It takes several turns to test every 1-element koan, so you should conduct only the most needed ones.

Testing all 1-letter koans should be acceptable, even if it's not 100 % according to the process of the turn-based game. If you deem it unspiritful, it's your right to test only some. I don't want to impose any limit by rules here. :-)

-- Simon

3416
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: August 31, 2014, 10:03:13 PM »
Yes, NATURALSCIENCES and MISUNDERSTANDABLE were the last piece here. Earlier ideas were always explaining 90 percent of cases, but not these.

-- Simon

3417
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: August 31, 2014, 09:46:10 PM »
Nice one. :-)

I offer anyone to host a game, I'll be away for 2-3 days after a couple hours.

-- Simon

3418
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: August 31, 2014, 08:31:00 PM »
let the funcion id() turn letters into numbers: id(A) = 1, id(B) = 2, ..., id(Z) = 26.

AKHTBN iff the length of the koan is >= id(first letter of the koan).

-- Simon

3419
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: August 31, 2014, 12:18:53 AM »
NATURAL
NURTURE
NURTURED
NUTRIENT

Everything I was considering so far is thrown overboard again by NATURE being black...

-- Simon

3420
Forum Games / Re: Zendo/Eleusis, play by forum
« on: August 31, 2014, 12:06:43 AM »
DUBLIN
DUBBERNATURE
NUDE
BUT
HCLACID

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