Menu

Show posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Show posts Menu

Messages - Strato Incendus

#466
Thanks a lot for all your enthusiasm, folks! :thumbsup: The first version was downloaded by a whopping 48 people. This far exceeds any hopes and expectations I had for this pack!

Now that count has been reset to 0, because I've uploaded the first minor update, with just two small fixes / changes based on Gronkling's solutions.

Changelog
Soft 04, "This time": The talisman now requires you to only use 3 Miners, not 4. Sorry to everyone who had attained it already, but that was indeed pretty much... everyone. In diagnostics of cognitive performance, we call this a "ceiling effect". If everyone can attain a talisman easily, it doesn't really mean anything. Thanks to Gronkling for finding this new solution! (And also, I didn't want two talismans on the same level, especially not on such a simple one, where the difference between bronze and silver would literally just have been 1 more instance of the same skill.)

Soft 23, "Don't worry, be happy": The fire pit has been made slightly higher. The talisman is still attainable, this solution isn't impacted by this.

Responses to Gronkling (Soft rank)

01: Better than the intended solution; slightly worse than the talisman solution, though, because you needed the Floater. ;)
02: Intended.
03: Intended.
04: Oh wow, this is the first solution I see using only 3 Miners! :thumbsup: Maybe I should make that the talisman requirement? Since solving it with 4 of 5 Miners seems to be something literally everyone is capable of.
05: A lot more skill-efficient than intended.
06: Intended.
07: Intended.
08: Intended.
09: You're the first one who used the Stackers on the left with the Climber, which is part of the intended solution. The rest you did completely differently, but that's absolutely fine! It's amazing how many different, yet equally difficult solutions this level seems to have! :thumbsup:
10: Intended.
11: Intended.
12: Intended.
13: Intended.
14: Slightly more skill-efficient than intended.
15: Intended.
16: Intended.
17: Valid alternative solution! :thumbsup: This one was rife with backroutes initially, so I'm glad to see you had to use all but one skill.
18: Efficient alternative solution.
19: Intended. You just "split up the Platformers" by platforming partly high, partly low across the water. I just sealed up the entire pond at the same altitude.
20: Intended.
21: Intended.
22: More efficient than intended. You didn't need the Blocker to cancel the Digger, because you dug in just the right place to still leave 1 pixel behind that broke the fall. ;) Also, no second worker lemming (Climber) required to platform from the exit to the Miner tunnel from the left. Still, I leave those skills in here, because other people clearly needed them for their solution. It's still the first rank, after all. ;)
23: That's the only minor backroute. One of my testers already platformed over that fire area, but then had to use so many of the other skills elsewhere that I was fine with it as an alternative solution. This one however saves a few too many skills for my liking, so I can no longer allow that shortcut. Thus, as a side effect, one of my tester's earlier solutions broke now. Sorry! ;) I just checked though, the talisman is still attainable.
24: Intended. Funny though that nobody fences from the right after the pioneer lemming is done building. I could enforce this with one-way arrows, but it doesn't really change anything. In fact, one-way arrows sometimes give the solution away more than if they weren't there.
25: Intended. Actually probably even slightly better than intended. I'm pretty sure though that the last Stacker wouldn't even have been necessary. This is because you used two stacks on top of each other to pen in the crowd, instead of using that pole of three red squares. If you do the latter, you need the additional Stacker to prevent any Climbers from getting trapped between the "containment stack" and the "release-the-crowd-again" stack. ;)
26: Yay, climbing through corners! :thumbsup: A good trick to know, might be come relevant on later levels. ;) Here this allowed you a slightly more efficient solution.
27: Intended.
28: Intended.
29: And here's another open-ended one with countless equally fascinating solutions. You're the first one I see who solved this level from the right side. :thumbsup:
30: Slightly more efficient than intended. You saved 2 Platformers, despite building up all the way to the chain on the left, instead of using another Stoner to turn around there.

Responses to namida (Soft 11-15)

11: A slight variation on the intended solution: You bashed the Stoner away again after having used the Stacker to prevent the crowd from walking into the water once the Stoner was removed. The intended solution uses the Stacker to build over the Stoner from the right, so that it never actually has to be removed.
12: This is the more efficient version of the intended solution: Stoning on the left instead of the right side of the gap saves two Shimmiers.
13: Intended.
14: Similar to Gronkling's solution, a little more efficient than intended. Don't know what that last Climber was for that went straight to the exit, though :D .
15: Also pretty much intended. You can platform from either side, but you definitely need the Shimmier to mine, because the Climber is needed to get back up the pillar after collecting the Basher pickups. And enforcing the Shimmier going along the bottom side of the Platformer bridge is what this level is all about.

It's fascinating to see how much the individual perception of difficulty differs.
There seems to be some consensus that Soft 07 is quite hard, and a lot of people don't enjoy Soft 08 (if it comforts you, I tried to enforce that trick on several levels, and this one seems to be the only one where you actually have to do it - but the level doesn't really consist of anything else aside from the main trick, so it's over quickly :P ).

However, as early as Soft 05, some people already find that challenging, others way too easy. Even about the first two levels you can already argue which one is harder; that seems to depend entirely on how much practice a given player has with the classic skills vs. the NeoLemmix skills, including what tricks you can do by combining them in various ways.

Especially Soft 12 - Soft 14 though seem to vary drastically in how difficult people perceive them to be:

Soft 12: Hard for Gronkling, easy for namida, and ericderkovits even seems to be stuck on this
Soft 13: Hard for namida, easy for nin10doadict (back during early testing)
Soft 14: Seems to have been easier for Gronkling than for namida, although their solutions were pretty similar
#467
Little did namida know that I have actually used several different rain objects in different colours... :P

Guess what, on a level called "Red rain", the rain will be... red. That's part of my strato_generalmd tileset. And Lemmings World Tour had "Purple rain", for eponymous reasons. ;)

And for the regular rain, I sometimes used the one from Arty's new special tileset, sometimes his older version of the standard rain object, which I had integrated into my strato_generalmd tileset. The reason for that is that the new rain is more transparent, but also more "shaky", which actually makes it more distracting to me sometimes than the old version of the rain object with full opacity.

So Gronkling would have to blank all rain objects in his styles folders. They should only be in arty_special and strato_generalmd at this point... however, I remember that for a while, the rain object had been moved to namida's Sky tileset. I don't think it's there anymore, though. I think I recall that I had to change those references in the level files after an update.
#468
Thanks for your comments, Flopsy! ;) Glad to hear that I was apparently able to set up some new records! :thumbsup:

Regarding Stormy 19
QuoteStormy 19, Rickafinity - I think this might be the fastest solve we have so far on this level.

You mean in terms of time remaining? :D It's not like there was an awful lot left of it in my solution either. I thought it was just to provide some leeway. Has everyone else literally solved this at the very last second?

Regarding Murder 1
QuoteMurder 1, The Five Arches - I have never seen a Blocker do that before....

Wait... are you talking about stopping a Basher with a Blocker? Are you serious? You were the one who showed that trick to me, on your LP of Lemmings Migration! :D

Also thanks for confirming the solvability of Murder 09. Seems like I significantly underestimated Wafflem's input on this pack. I'll give it another shot then! ;)
#469
The fact that you're asking about rain objects gives me an idea of how far you've already progressed into the pack... ;) I can't say I'm surprised though, that you got this far so quickly - given that the pack you were working on, Lemmings Evolution, was also expected to be one of the most difficult ones out there.

If the rain is distracting you or actively causing you health issues (do we need an epilepsy warning on levels featuring certain objects now? :D ) - well, you could always open the level file and delete all instances of the rain object... either in the text file or by opening it in the editor. ;)

I know it's a bit of a hassle, but that's one of the great advantages about the New Formats, with the loose levels files being the same ones that are actually being used in the game. No more "loose level file first, then compiled into a pack" etc. You could change anything you want about a level before you play it: Sprites, background, music...

Of course, that also allows to modify a level to make it easier to play, but I think everyone here on the forums understands that they're just fooling themselves if they "cheat" that way :D .

Assuming that you'll want to modify the level files, which are ordered in the folders alphabetically by name, not by rank and level number, I'm just giving you the titles of the levels that contain rain objects, so that you can edit them all in one swoop:


Levels with precipitation ;D

Soft rank: Raindrops keep falling on my head
Loud rank: November rain; Red rain; In the bleak midwinter (snow)
Heavy rank: A change of seasons (both rain and snow)
Hardcore rank: Hammer-smashed face; Wipe your ass with sandpaper

QuoteI'm finding this fun otherwise though!

Thanks a lot, great to hear! :thumbsup:
#470
Question about Murder 09, "30-MegSEBytes Hard Drive": The receiver of the teleporter is entirely covered by a fire trigger area.

Is this supposed to be this way? I remember having attempted this level before, and I definitely do not remember it as it is right now.
If it's a backroute fix, it seems like a particularly weird one. As it stands right now, this teleporter just seems to be a complicated version of a trap.

More about my initial attempt to solve this level (back in Old Formats)
In fact I'm pretty sure you had to stone beneath the receiver, or platform along there - anyway, at least one worker lemming had to go through it.
#471
QuoteIIRC, some of the MegSEBytes levels were pretty tough, but in SEB Lems you have already played some of them. The pack has several of the levels scattered in the main ranks, while in Old Formats it can be downloaded as a separate pack. It has 5 ranks with 6 levels each. I have already solved MegSEBytes for Old Formats, although there are two exclusive levels for that rank that can only be found in New Formats, neither of which I have played yet. In the standalone version, i.e, the Old Formats version before it got integrated into SEB Lems, I felt no real challenge with it until about the 3rd/4th rank. I remember the Lights, Camera, Action level being a huge spike in difficulty despite being the first level of either the 3rd or 4th rank (I don't remember which).

Thanks for the assessment! ;)

QuoteI checked the Old Formats version of SEB Lems, and indeed Deep Cuts is there. I don't know about it being removed prior to v12.9. Since it's not available for New Formats, I wonder if it's better for me to LP the Old Formats version of SEB Lems then. It does mean more levels and hence most likely a much longer LP, though.

Arty has already LPed the entire Old-Formats version.
More importantly though, in contrast to me with LWT, Flopsy is no longer maintaining the Old-Formats version. Therefore, most likely a bunch of backroutes will still be present in the latest Old-Formats version that are no longer possible in New Formats.

Of course, for some of these solutions, I would still prefer them to be there. ;) A couple of times when I was stuck, I looked at Arty's LP and saw a perfectly fine solution, which wasn't even called a backroute in the comments - only to find out that what Arty had done had been made impossible afterwards nonetheless.

But there are also other things you'd really prefer to be fixed. For example, I remember the one-way arrows in the Old-Formats Starlight Zone tileset not actually working. Meaning, they would display properly, but they had no trigger area in the editor. Consequently, you could simply bash through them in the opposite direction. ;) Even though it's clearly not intended.


For that reason, you should definitely go with the New Formats version. Even if it means fewer levels... Arty himself said the old version with more levels dragged on quite a bit towards the end. Which I guess is one of the reasons why the Deep Cuts rank was removed.
#472
Responses to ericderkovits
Soft 09: Completely different than intended, but perfectly fine! :thumbsup: This is basically an open-ended level where the iffy terrain shape and the lethal drop for the central hatch are the main challenges, no matter how you overcome them.

Soft 10: That's a nifty little trick you used there! :thumbsup: I think Armani did something similar with the Glider, showing me that Reacher-Glider tricks still work (especially with updrafts) even after the physics change. You however didn't even need the Glider, because you instead exploited the fact that Reachers can jump through small stripes of terrain. I think WillLem was the first one to demonstrate this to me. This isn't actually required on any of the levels in this pack (I did make a level for my upcoming pack Lemmings: Hall of Fame, though, where it is indeed relevant ;) ). I guess this means that while standing on top of the Stoner, the lemming was actually already under the wooden stripe of terrain. If you had used the Glider, you could even have done it a couple of pixels earlier, i.e. before the lemming was under the stripe of terrain.
Neither trick is required to solve this level, though; you can also just use the Glider and all the Shimmiers for their normal applications. ;)

Soft 11: This is the first time I see an alternative solution for this one! ;) The intended way is to widen the Fencer tunnel with a Basher going down the slope, so that the Shimmier can continue all the way to the pillar on the left. You instead used the Stoner to isolate him while disarming the traps and saved the Basher for cutting through the Stoner later on. I don't think there would be a way for me to prevent this, even if I wanted to. But I'm actually fine with such alternative solutions, especially if they still use all the skills. Sometimes it can come back to hurt a player later though, if they miss an opportunity to learn a certain trick (in this case: widening a Fencer tunnel wish a Basher so that Shimmiers can pass through) that may be required again later on... ;)

QuoteOkay, taking a look at this.

... and the grand master himself is here! Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this, namida! :thumbsup:

Responses to namida

Soft 01 - Intended (Talisman).Yeah, that left side looks a little "loose". It's to enforce the Floater usage, but of course, the talisman solution doesn't require it.

Soft 02 - Intended. I am very confident this level is harder for the average player than the first one, simply because that Stacker-Stoner trick is still not that well-known yet. And here there is literally no other way of freeing the crowd at the end.

Soft 03 - Intended. Don't overlook one thing: This level is the first to introduce direct Climber-Shimmier transitions. I actually added the Shimmier to level 02 to get one regular application out of it first, i.e. where the ceiling is low enough so that the Reacher can get to the ceiling on his own. Because if level 03 was the first time a player encountered the Shimmier, they might think it was just a "vertical Jumper", or even that "Reacher" was the actual skill name. ;) For any player who wasn't already here during the discussions leading up to the introduction of the Shimmier, it may not be obvious at all that Climbers can transition into Shimmiers directly. Especially because NeoLemmix doesn't use the "dangling from the ceiling" animation, as Lemmings 2: The Tribes does.

Soft 04 - Intended (Talisman). Well, I for one had quite a lot of trouble getting used to this logic of "using Miner tunnels to turn around while they are being created", so maybe I overestimate the difficulty of such puzzles ;) . It's mainly in spot 04 though as an homage to "Now use Miners and Climbers" ;) .

Soft 05 - Valid alternative solution. Glad to hear you found this one a little trickier, because it was backrouted countless times during testing :D .

Soft 06 - Intended. Using Shimmiers + Gliders to turn a lemming around is indeed the new thing that's supposed to be taught here. The trick was even less obvious before you implemented the physics change :P Because that bar on the left could still look like all the other ones back then. After the physics change, in order to give the Glider sufficient height again to bump into the wall and turn around, I had to do this weird carved-out part that you see now, which gives away a little more that you need to do something special there.

Soft 07 - Intended. Yes, it's probably what "Glide and joy" was in Lemmings World Tour. A potential early roadblock. ;) It's in position 07, again, as an homage to "Builders will help you here". ;)

Soft 08 - Intended. Thanks, you were the first one to use the Glider solution! :thumbsup:

Soft 09 - Very close to intended. You managed to pull it off without the Miner.

Soft 10 - Intended. Yes, I remember from your feedback to the Groupie level I had made in your style for Lemmings World Tour that the extent to which one-way arrows cover chunks of terrain is one of your signature concerns. :P In this case, it would bother me if not the entire height of the pillar was covered; but it's just one pixel-width on the left and right side each, which actually makes it look quite symmetrical to me.
#473
Let's say I don't expect the pack to get more difficult beyond the Rapture rank, because as far as I understand it, MegSEBytes is an earlier pack integrated into this one (so I actually expect it to be easier, like my Encore rank in Lemmings World Tour). Don't know about Unrequited.

As I understood Flopsy, it is possible to download the Deep Cuts rank from an earlier version or just keep it in the levels folder if you still have it from an earlier version instead of deleting it. However, of course that means there is no guarantee it will work with the latest NeoLemmix version. I think it was already removed prior to NeoLemmix version 12.9?

In one of the earlier posts, Flopsy said he might re-add the Deep Cuts rank later if he feels he can improve the levels on that rank sufficiently. So I'd rather just wait for that. I do hope it gets re-added in some fashion, though. ;)

I'm currently stuck on Murder 02; I know I have attempted Murder 03 before, but I don't remember if I ever solved it.

Maybe it's a good idea to do some skipping around? A lot of the Stormy rank definitely felt easier than some select levels from Revolution, and many of the later levels of Stormy I had solved before some of the early ones from the same rank. Maybe the same is true for Murder and Rapture as well?

Also, I don't know how much more difficult the pack can get once you've developed some routine with recognising Flopsy's favourite tricks. Since he proudly wears it in his name tag, I don't think it's a secret that Flopsy is "the King of Blockers".

That means...
...using them for a bunch of other purposes than crowd control, and usually in a manner where they can be freed again.

In contrast, a lot of players only practice Blocker usage at the very beginning of their journey, until they encounter levels that require more advanced forms of crowd control (Digger pits, sealing off Basher tunnels with Builders, three-Builder wall, etc.).

The downside of that however is that many of us no longer use the Blocker very much at all. If you're one of the players where this is true (as it is for me), this will DEFINITELY come back to bite you when you first attempt SEB Lems. ;)

#474
Boom! First half completed (plus the first level of Murder for good measure)! :D I played everything from scratch again and went for the talismans where it was possible without jumping through too many additional hoops. There are two replays for Paradise 12.

There may still be some backroutes among these; on at least 1 level, I had a bunch of skills remaining, and on a couple other ones where it seemed like all the skills were accounted for, I had 1 skil remaining and/or saved an additional lemming.

There were only a couple of levels where I needed to take some slight hints. "Slight" literally means "start watching Arty's / IchoTolot's solution and immediately click away after I've received one more piece of information." These were the following levels:

Spoiler
Hopeless Fantasies: I didn't realise I had to do a "2 for the price of 1" approach and bomb a lemming that otherwise would have drowned anyway.

Mean Green Machine: Cutting that one Basher in comparison to Arty's solution (which you didn't call a backroute in the comments! :P ) really made this level unnecessarily precise timing-wise. I had to re-assign the Digger on the left repeatedly to get him in the narrow time frame of "passing the exit while still closed" and "not reaching the abyss before it's been sealed up by Platformers". While looking at Arty's solution I thought "Why didn't this occur to me? Did I just overlook one Basher, or did I waste it somewhere?" No - it actually wasn't there anymore.
Also, the Old-Formats version featured anti-splat pads instead of updrafts. Thought about re-adding those? ;)
For a while, the updrafts confused me even more, because they made me think the whole crowd should travel down with the Digger. With updrafts resetting fall height, this is technically possible (if it weren't for that force field, even if you block after the first drop). With anti-splat pads, it's clear this path isn't an option, because you would be digging away the terrain inside their trigger area, and the lemmings would splat again underneath.

Thought of Jigsaw and made this: I had the Stacker trick and everything figured out, but didn't see a way to make all Climbers survive until they reach the left side. Because I didn't see a way not to make the Glider a Climber as well. So I had to watch just the very beginning of IchoTolot's solution (since Arty's was a backroute) to get the crowd containment right. I never would have thought there would be enough time to let the Glider mine first! :lem-mindblown:

Wild Forever: I traditionally suck at compression method. I was aware that you can use Bashers and Fencers to compress lemmings by having them "walk up on each other". But I hadn't thought of doing the same with Floaters yet. That a Miner has to go through, this was clear to me right away, since I like to use that a bunch as well. And the green grass parts thankfully facilitate proper placement of everything, including the Digger at the end. After that, I also went back to solve "Scarborough Sands", which I had skipped earlier, but I didn't actually have to look for any hints here. Just the context of having done "Wild Forever" first was enough. ;) But that's why the replay file for Stormy 05 has a later "last-modified" date than the rest.
#475
Replies to ericderkovits's replays Soft 06-08

06: Intended.

07: I was curious when I heard you used a timing-based solution.
You still built to the left before you built up for the second part. However, you actually re-connected the crowd with the first section and had them walk back and forth. The intended solution is to only build to the left until you're under the pillar, so that the crowd keeps walking to the left, then have the last lemming who comes in from the left (i.e. is still looking to the right while falling) land on top of the staircase and build up from there. No lemming from the crowd will be able to follow him because they all continue walking to the left, until you have the crowd build up to the staircase again from the left (=looking to the right) after the water gap has been crossed. Learned this trick ages ago from mobius, tried to enforce it on his Groupie level in Lemmings World Tour, didn't work - but here it's vital! :thumbsup:
However, the fact that I now know there is a timing-based alternative means this level has more degrees of freedom. Therefore, I feel it's all the more justified to be on the first rank. :P
Yes, the level is a step up in difficulty, but even this one doesn't actually enforce the "mobius trick" as strictly as I thought it would ;) .

08: That's basically intended. I just find it curious that nobody seems to want to use the Glider :P . When you set up the second staircase with a lemming from the left/upper crowd (=letting one slip past the Blocker, making him a Glider, then cloning the Glider before he falls so that the clone still turns around on the Blocker, then both glide down, you stone the first one so that the second one lands on top of the Stoner), it should be easier. Because the Stoner should be in the exact right spot where the second Builder needs to go. On the other hand, sending all worker lemmings from the right means you don't have to divide your attention as much between the two crowds.

Regarding the precision: Yes, making Miners go through is always precise, but believe me... I have both played and designed much worse "Miner marathons"... ;)
#476
Second hint (Soft 07)
Do you know the level "Dolly Dimple" from Oh No! More Lemmings (Crazy rank, level 02)? If not, you should probably try and beat that level first. ;)

Alternatively, there's a level in Lemmings World Tour (Noisemaker rank, level 11) called "Can't stop this thing we started". This level teaches the exact same approach as "Dolly Dimple".

This is what I meant by "You need to know the tricks from Lemmings World Tour to beat this pack". That wasn't a joke! :P

Hint if you've already beaten "Dolly Dimple" and "Can't stop this thing we started"

You can use Builders to force lemmings to walk into one direction only. The same logic applies here.
Except that in this case, it's not about making them all look in the same direction when falling through a Digger hole... but you still want the entire crowd to look in one direction, the pioneer in the other one.
#477
Well, imagine my shock... :evil: Soft 07 is precisely what I expected to be the first road block.

First hint (Soft 07)
If you build across the first pillar from the top of the three-Builder wall, there is obviously no way for the crowd to get over that pillar - because you don't want them to get back behind the three-Builder wall, and they can't, even if you wanted them to.

So the three Builders that create the wall on the left and the Builders that get you over the first pillar need to be separate.

How you isolate the worker lemming for the second part of the level... that is a different story after that ;) .
#478
Thanks for playing, WouterSmits and ericderkovits! ;)

Everything is as intended so far, except, eric's solution for Soft 05, which is a valid alternative one (i.e. uses all the skills, not a backroute, just not the way I solved it :D ).

And indeed, even the first two levels are not meant to be tutorial levels. Or at least not more so than the "Crash Course" levels from SEB Lems. ;)
#479
General Discussion / Re: Giant Anteaters
November 29, 2020, 06:35:13 PM
Fun fact: Here in Germany we call them ant bears (Ameisenbären), even though they don't seem to have anything in common with bears. ;)

I assume Simon knows, because he's German, too. Just for the others to know! :D

Apparently there was even a German combat plane in World War II named "Ameisenbär", because of its long nose.

Also, I just realised that ants would make a great species for a Lemmings clone game as well. With great anteaters as a possible trap. :thumbsup:
#480
Lemmings Open Air has been officially released!

Thus, I'm closing this thread. Thank you all for your interest and participation! ;)

The discussion of the released version(s) continues here in the official release thread.