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Messages - Strato Incendus

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451
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Make a styles.ini file that fits this and, assuming no strong objections (or possibly even in spite of them, if there's enough support), I'll put it in the next update.

Alright, just cutting and pasting the tilesets in that file is easy enough... but as far as I understand it, I also need to change the numbers for "order" for each tileset.

Is there any more efficient way to do this? I just want to ask before I change every single number by hand. :P

Especially because such an alphabetical list would have to be updated whenever new tilesets come out. Simply adding new lines between existing ones would be straightforward, but if the order index is required in addition to that, such a manual changing of the order numbers would have to be done every time a new tileset comes out.

452
Closed / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] New skills general discussion
« on: November 26, 2020, 08:48:17 PM »
So, now that I have made my own post in the Feedback thread, I have read the other ones.

Apparently, and as expected, each of the four members who have posted so far has a different least favourite skill (i.e. the one they would cut if they had to cut one).

IchoTolot: favourite Laserer, least favourite Slider
Proxima: favourite Slider, least favourite Laserer
WillLem: favourite Slider, least favourite Spearer
Me: favourite Laserer, least favourite Grenader

So one "cull-if-it-has-to-be" vote for each skill. :D In other words, no overwhelming dislike for any particular skill.

Sounds to me like more evidence that we should keep all four :thumbsup: !

453
Closed / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] New skills - what is their potential like?
« on: November 26, 2020, 08:30:44 PM »
Alright! I have deliberately not read any of the previous comments yet, so that I don't feel the need to reply to anything, but can just state my "unbiased" opinions first. As this is ehat I understood namida asks from us here. ;)

Quote from: namida
- What is your favorite trick you've seen / found involving one or more of these new skills? (Use your own judgement as to what constitutes a "trick".) As a courtesy to other members who may want to discover tricks on their own, please spoiler tag this.

Favourite tricks (click to show/hide)

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- If all four skills were to make it in, but you were allowed to make exactly one change to how one of them worked (not including bug fixes - assume those will happen regardless), what would your change be, if anything?

Most likely, I wouldn't change anything; I'm perfectly content with the current arcs of the Laserer, Spearer, and Grenader. And regarding the Slider, the only required changes I am aware of are indeed bugs.

However, if I had to offer one thing up for consideration, it would be the size of the Grenader's crater, making it smaller, closer to that of the Bomber. Maybe that would make it less prone to causing backroutes by just nuking away huge chunks of (even one-way) terrain.

I haven't used the "dent the ceiling to stop a Shimmier" application yet, especially since I've now found out that can be done with a single Spearer to the ceiling as well. (Only at least two spears are enough for the Shimmier to land on them; a single spear will be something the Shimmier bumps into so that he falls down.)

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- If you were responsible for picking which skills do or don't make it, and were told you could only pick one skill to make it in, which one would you pick? Why?

Tricky. I'd have to coss a toin between Slider and Laserer. But at this point, if you held a gun to my head, I would probably prioritise the Laserer. I have found ways of simulating some very specific Slider behaviours with Floaters falling through one-way fields. But I haven't found any way yet of emulating a Laserer.

That said, the Slider is still my very strong second, followed by the Spearer. And as said above, my favourite trick(s) involve(s) the Slider. If it weren't for the Laserer having a 45-degree angle and therefore allowing Shimmier interactions as well, the Slider would still be first.

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- If you were (same), and were told you must pick exactly one skill to reject while keeping the others, which one would you reject? Why?

The Grenader. For the following reasons:

- Backroutes featuring the Grenader are hard to prevent because they are like Bomber backroutes, i.e. can ignore one-way arrows, but the crater is much larger. Spearer backroutes are easier to prevent because they are similar to Stoner backroutes (except the Spearer isn't quite as broken). The Grenader however has an upside compared to the Bomber, because it's not only larger, but also not lethal. Thus, the Spearer is a weaker Stoner, but the Grenader is a stronger Bomber. At least when he stands right next to or right below his target, so that the grenade immediately explodes. Of course, you can't abuse the Grenader as a Bomber where there is a lot of space.
I for one like to design around certain limitations. This is why I like the Spearer more than the Grenader right now.

- The Grenader is the only new skill that isn't part of Lemmings 2: The Tribes, so I would be less bothered by losing it compared to any of the others. Sure, comparable to the Bazooker or Mortar, but still quite different flavour-wise.

If one skill had to get cut, I don't know if the Spearer would still have a chance of getting implemented if the Grenader had to go, or if Spearer and Glider would count as one skill that would also get culled together.

But I think this "2 in 1" approach only made sense when it came to programming effort; now, both skills can justify their existence independently of each other, with the only connection being that they should share the throwing arc.



TL;DR: My priority list is 1) Laserer, 2) Slider, 3) Spearer, 4) Grenader. But I want to stress very strongly that I still hope to see all four skills implemented.

And I'd be happy to toy around with the Grenader much more when I can be certain that it will stay. Instead of all my levels featuring it being... well... blown up by its elimination. :'(

454
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: Lemmings World Tour Remastered [New-Formats Version]
« on: November 26, 2020, 01:00:03 PM »
Yes, quite a few of them are still at least somewhat of a backroute - and I haven't even had a chance to look at kaywhyn's solutions for the main ranks yet.

I assume there won't be many more backroutes on the first couple of ranks... so if you want to, you can start uploading those. At least I don't remember a lot of backroutes from your replays for the first two ranks, because those had already been played by both Colorful Arty and Flopsy. And whatever I found for those I'm pretty sure I have fixed by now.

But you can expect at least one huge update once I've watched all of kaywhyn's replays.

My collection of your replays also somehow stopped at 12th September - I guess this may have to do with my old laptop having crashed in the meantime, so maybe this was the latest state I had saved somewhere. Anyways, I also re-checked you replays since 17th September, and there are also some things on the Rockstar and Legend rank I can hopefully enforce better. (For example, on "Holy mountains", you could just go beneath that entire temple structure, or on "Blowing in the wind" you could completely ignore the upper exit by simply connecting the crowds. These are the types of backroutes that a few steel walls can fix quickly.)

However, I always implement the changes in Old- and New Formats in one swoop, so that I don't forget any. And right now, I don't want to fix any levels before I've watched kaywhyn's replays (even if they're for Old Formats).

Because I've noticed, some of the fixes I've implemented for kaywhyn's Groupie solutions now already broke some of your solutions for those levels (e.g. Groupie 05). I assume that's because you had found a similar backroute as him, especially with your announcement that you "re-backrouted the levels" :P . But of course, I can never be sure.

The downside of "watching everything first, then implementing the changes" is of course that with such a large pack, it's still easy to overlook somethings when going back to the level editor. I do watch them in bites, of course, not in one piece, and I do take my notes where necessary... but still, some backroutes can always slip under the radar.

455
In Development / Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
« on: November 26, 2020, 12:44:14 AM »
I recently had a strangely awesome idea... and now I've finally gathered up the insanity to implement it. :evil: Depending on your point of view, it can be a cool or a nasty surprise.
But either way, a surprise. So I don't want to ruin it for those who prefer to be surprised... but then again, most puzzle fans don't... so I also want to be fair.
And of course I'm also impatient and want to share this, because I don't think anyone else has done this so far. :P

Although, I vaguely recall WillLem having tried something like this with custom sprite recolourings... I don't know whether he changed it later, though, or whether he "got away with it"... :D

Anyways, click on the following spoiler tag at your own peril. It contains information about a tutorial level called:


456
It's nice that we have so many different graphic sets, but by now it's really getting hard to keep the overview. Not over the standard orig, ONML, and L2 tilesets, which are right at the start (where they should stay, since they are probably the most-frequently-used ones). But when it comes to custom tilesets, the order in the dropdown menu in the editor seems fairly arbitrary.

Yeah, sure, I can understand why namida's Lemmings Plus tilesets are first in the list after the official tilesets - he created and maintains this entire thing, after all, and we all are very thankful for it ;) .

However, even after namida's tilesets, the order doesn't really seem to be alphabetical or anything else: Gronkling comes before Flopsy, then it jumps back to Arty, then Raymanni, then IchoTolot, then the Freedom-Planet tilesets... I often spend a long time just scrolling through this list, even though I know exactly which tileset I want to pick, but I just can't find it quickly.

In addition, each line start's with the name of the tileset, not with that of the author; so sometimes, if the tileset name is long enough that you can't properly see the author, it would be hard to tell the order even if it were alphabetical.

I think it would be in everyone's best interest, for the sake of convenience, if we bring some order into this randomness. ;)

My suggestion would be:
1) Everything from the orig tilesets down to the L3 tilesets remains as it is right now.

2) After that section, the custom tilesets currently start with namida's Lemmings Plus tilesets. I wouldn't necessarily mind them staying there, with the alphabetical order starting after namida. However, especially for those LP tilesets that GigaLem has revamped, most people are probably using those more frequently now. So it doesn't really make sense for the original LP tilesets to take precedent in this regard.
3) Maybe the format shouldn't be "Tileset name (Author)", but "Author: Tileset name"? Since we're reading from left to right, it would be much easier to tell this way where you are in the alphabetical order. But this is just optional.

Whether the naming scheme starts with the author or the tileset name itself:
Just begin the custom-tileset list with authors starting on A, and then continue that all the way down to zanzindorf.
In case of Colorful Arty, we / he need(s) to decide whether he should go by his full name (i.e. letter C), or just by "Arty", as it's written in the editor right now (i.e. letter A). Given the limited width of the dropdown menu, shortening it to "Arty" is probably more practical.

An alphabetical order is not a value judgment, after all - it's neutral and purely pragmatical. ;)
This should apply to all tilesets which have been "officially approved", i.e. are part of the official styles download.

After the letter z, we could have all the special tilesets at the bottom, followed by whatever the individual level designer maybe added by him- or herself, but what isn't part of the official download (yet). In my case, all my custom sprite recolourings go there.

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That's why I am also still sceptical about failure/success jingles, but there they are limited to the end of the level and not there constantly during playing so it isn't really a big deal.

More importantly, they can be disabled, and in fact are now even disabled by default. The player needs to actively turn them on if he or she wants them. ;)

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I have another idea though: We take that silent sound and make it the soundfile for the buttons then anyone missing the Bloopedy Boopedy circus can go ahead and get it while everyone else can still enjoy the silence.

That sounds as genius as it is simple! :thumbsup:

I probably should have come up with that idea myself; just today I revisited an online experiment of mine where visual and auditory stimuli are presented in an alternating manner. And because the website I used to host it only has comparatively limited clickable options compared to the free python programming I normally use, I am technically presenting both visual and auditory information each time. But either the visual file is empty, or the sound file is silence, so that only one type of stimulus is presented. Same logic.

458
Thanks to WillLem for the info about the "dink!" sound when the maximum release rate is reached. :thumbsup: I'd be fine with that. Setting the release rate to 99 is the main thing I use it for. Slightly turning it up is only required on a few levels that have release-rate fiddling as part of their intended solution.

If IchoTolot is against this change, the only workaround that would please both sides would indeed be to have the option of enabling or disabling every sound separately... except for object-specific sounds, because that would be a huge hastle with all the graphic sets.

But we'd probably need a few more people to chime in... or even better have a poll about it? ;)

459
I never noticed that was missing, but WillLem is right. :D I'm undecided about it.

On the one hand, it would be a way to increase similarity to original Lemmings again.
On the other hand, it seems like NeoLemmix is moving more and more away from original Lemmings even in its aesthetics now. And I agree with IchoTolo that this sound can be annoying. Because most likely, there wouldn't be a way to only turn off the release-rate sound while keeping all other sounds active?

Of course, you could hit "s" on your keyboard before changing the release rate to deactivate the sound, and then hit "s" again to turn it back on. But that's just additional inconvenience.

Also, what should happen when using the right-click shortcut to immediately set the release rate to either 99 or the starting minimum? Just a quick "blrrrrp"? :D

460
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings World Tour
« on: November 25, 2020, 10:27:24 AM »
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I'm asking out of curiosity, because you've raised this point before and it doesn't tally with my experience. Other than conversions of older content, what packs are there that artificially restrict themselves to the classic 8 skills? I know of one (Lemmings Migration), which is hardly evidence that there is a general trend. Are there others?

Well, to be fair, since I announced I would give those older packs an obvious "free pass", I think most of them would qualify for that because they are indeed that old. For example, I know that Nepster's "Return of the Tribes" is even older than NepsterLems, so obviously it only has classic skills, too - even though a pack alluding to Lemmings 2: The Tribes feels much more like it "needs" NeoLemmix skills compared to e.g. Lemmings Migration. ;)

I looked back at when the Lemmings Plus Series started using NeoLemmix skills, and as far as I can tell, it wasn't until Lemmings Plus IV. Of course, I wasn't around at the time those packs were created, so I don't know whether namida made them in Lemmix first, or whether he had already set up NeoLemmix but hadn't introduced any new skills yet.

For packs converted from SuperLemmini, like SubLems, it's also obvious that they don't have NeoLemmix skills. And for the couple of levels Arty had to swap out because of certain skill behaviours that exist in SuperLemmini but not in NeoLemmix (like "Lemmings can't jump"), it wouldn't have made sense to introduce new skills just for those. Just like I didn't want to replace my radiation/slowfreeze levels in Lemmings World Tour with Shimmier levels in New Formats.

Then there is also Lemmings Stampede, although again, I don't quite know when it was first created.

Just in general, when I joined the forums, it already had had NeoLemmix skills for a while, yet most of the "current" content at that time (i.e. the packs held in high regard and recommended to others) still only featured the classic skills. Lemmings Migration came out new at that time and went into the same direction. I think it wasn't until I played CasuaLemmings that I encountered a new pack making excessive use of the new skills. And it wasn't until SEB Lems that a really challenging pack with new skills came along. At least that's how I remember it.

Now in New Formats, there are fortunately already many more packs that use NeoLemmix skills. ;)

However, in my post I was specifically referring to X-of-everything levels. And so far, most packs I've seen that feature them do so in a "X of every classic skill" manner. This is true for Lemmings Plus I-III and NepsterLems above all else. I haven't seen a lot of X-of-everything levels than include NeoLemmix skills in the same quantity as X.

Maybe because we haven't even agreed yet in the first  place on what "everything" means when more than 8 skills are available :D .
I'm referring to both the increased panel size (from 8 to 10) and the increased number of skill types (19 as of now, hopefully 23 in the end) here.

461
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings World Tour
« on: November 24, 2020, 10:42:26 PM »
Yeah, since strato_generalmd is a special tileset, not meant to add standard pieces or for others to build levels with (many members have their own "miscellaneous" tilesets for that), I doubt the styles manager will be able to grab it. It's not part of the official styles download, for sure ;) , nor are my custom recolourings of the sprites. (But the latter are optional anyway.)

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Paralems => LWT => Lemmicks => Pit Lems

Really? You found Pit Lems harder than LWT? Guess that gives me even more motivation to convert it to New Formats, then! :thumbsup:

Sure, the focus with Pit Lems was on mechanical challenge instead of aesthetics like in LWT. But it also contains lots of open-ended "puzzles" (that are merely about resource conservation), doesn't require a lot of "tricks", and having only really been completed by nin10doadict prior to you, I doubt it was much more backroute-proof than LWT.

Also, nin10doadict was indeed able to beat the entirey of Pit Lems, but did not progress that far into LWT, as far as I know.

Well, either way, Lemmings Open Air is going to take the top spot in difficulty among my packs soon... :evil:

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Truthfully, the final level of LOA was nowhere near as stressful as The Grand Puzzle. Slightly easier as well, and I definitely prefer LOA's final level to LWT's final level. If you read my feedback on The Grand Puzzle, I'm not a huge fan of the level, mainly due to how I got quickly annoyed at how much scrolling needs to be done and just not being able to watch all crowds at once.

Yes, I've read your criticism, and it very much overlaps with what IchoTolot criticised about "The Grand Puzzle" as well. ;) That's why I had already taken it to heart and made the last level of LOA a) much smaller and b) had all the crowds contained from the start, except for the one where the camera / screen starts. This was one key difference IchoTolot had pointed out between "The Grand Puzzle" and "Final Frustration".

Last level of Lemmings Open Air (click to show/hide)

I can already promise that I will attempt a "Final Frustration" level again, because I think I can do even better than the last level of LOA.

462
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings World Tour
« on: November 24, 2020, 08:47:58 PM »
Ah yeah, thanks for adding Amateur 31; I had indeed already downloaded all your replays, so I just added this single one.

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Plus the New Formats version actually has a save requirement, and so I will have to play it anyway.

Well, that's namida's fault, not mine; at some point, for some reason, he decided to make the minimum save requirement in New Formats 1. :P And I've already complained to him how he partially ruined this otherwise completely indifferent level with that! ;)

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brutal difficulty of some of the levels in the main ranks, especially the Legend rank, the final main rank of the pack.

Really? ^^ "Brutal" is a word I maybe would have expected for some levels from Lemmings Open Air, not from this pack. Maybe that's because IchoTolot seems to have breezed through this pack quickly and easily, so that I had already given up hope that any of those levels would pose an actual challenge to adept solvers such as you and IchoTolot.

I don't quite remember which of the Legend levels you considered the hardest, but maybe I'd have to check those specific levels again to see where you're coming from. ;)

As for the final level of the pack: Yeah, that took IchoTolot one hour as well. It's not necessarily for difficulty per se; it's just because there's so much stuff to cover.
In the end, I'm probably happy that the New Formats editor has a pixel limit, so that I can't even be tempted to ever create such a monster again. :evil:

"The Grand Puzzle" was my first attempt at creating a Final-Frustration-like experience; in Lemmings Open Air, "Hammer-Smashed Face" is my second one.
Interestingly enough, Lemmings: Hall of Fame actually does not end with such a huge open-ended level.
But Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll might... and hopefully, that one will be much better at a much smaller landscape size. ;)

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When I do do this, should I do it post-commentary like I'm doing with United? Or should I just LP it as if from complete scratch? Even though it's not really, since it will be a non-blind LP like you said since I've already seen all of the levels. Come to think of it, I notice how very quickly I tend to forget my own solutions to other people's levels, and so I might just do the former. Then again, maybe doing the latter is better and makes for a much more enjoyable experience for both me and the viewers, especially a pack author such as yourself ;) IIRC the longest I have ever struggled on a level in this pack was probably for a good 45 minutes or so, although I think the final level was close to an hour.

Well, if you really actually do forget your own solutions again quickly, then this might be the best chance you have to do a semi-blind LP. ;) In other words, just running the replays over the levels with post-commentary might be a wasted opportunity. At least as long as you're not really getting stuck - which I think both of us would have good reasons to doubt, now that you've already solved the entire pack in Old Formats.

I might still do a creator's commentary later, where I can run the replays with commentary... or IchoTolot might upload his solutions for New Formats to YouTube eventually. (Which would then be the same format in which you're planning to LP the pack, so if you're both just running the replays over the levels, it would be a very similar experience for the viewer, therefore most likely redundant.)

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11 failed, some due to the glider issue, others for various reasons, most notably due to the ceiling being deadly in New Formats, while another 14 is undetermined (see my attached mass replay check text file for v12.10.0). Curiously, for v12.9.4, there are more problematic replays (mass replay check text file for v12.9.4 also attached). In both cases, it reports as Diva 24 not being found, although I ran my replay and it does work, so no problem there. However, it reports an error with Groupie 39 due to the generalstratomd style missing.

- The Glider physics change was indeed only implemented in New Formats, so yes, all those replays will fail and did so for me as well. Sometimes I had to adjust the position of an updraft in a New-Formats level but had to deliberately not do so in Old-Formats.

- Diva 24 is a rerun of Noisemaker 15, so maybe there was an issue with the level IDs in the replay files? I remember I didn't quite know about the issue with identical level IDs back in Old-Formats, so whenever I created a rerun out of an existing level but then later on manually gave it a different level ID, replay files I had created before that would end up getting confused.

- Groupie 39 isn't the only level to require the strato_generalmd style; it's also needed for e.g. the level "Weiße Rosen aus Athen", for my custom white flower traps, and for the level "It must have been Lems", with my custom Builder staircases pre-placed inside the level.
So if you don't have that tileset installed (even though you should, since it ships with the New-Formats download), those other levels should have produced error messages as well.
Maybe you downloaded the styles together with the pack, but they didn't get unpacked into the right folder? ;)
If you unpack the ZIP into your main NeoLemmix 12.10 folder, the levels folder should automatically get integrated into your levels folder and the styles folder into your styles folder. If however you unpack them directly into levels, then the styles will end up in the wrong place.

463
Closed / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] New skills general discussion
« on: November 24, 2020, 05:57:23 PM »
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This could be improved thogh: I suggest if you use a skill only to turn around a slider, make the skill do something else on top of that! This way the slider interaction helps making another nessesary skill in the level even more important!

Yeah, indeed I tried to do exactly that on "Microcosm": I wanted the staircase to both turn around the Slider and simultaneously break the fall from above out of the Laserer tunnel.
But I couldn't see a way to make the drop higher without breaking the path for the Shimmier. At least not initially. ;)
Now, instead of moving everything up, including the exit (which would have broken the Basher trick on the left), I've connected the different altitudes with a slope of the maximal possible Shimmier-friendly increase (45°).

I've attached an edited version of the level and a new replay. Removed the Fencer, the Spearers (because they could be used like Stoners to break the fall on the right), as well as one Builder, because stacking at the end of the Laserer tunnel is enough to prevent the crowd from falling out.

Interestingly, the Slider survives a drop out of the Laserer tunnel, even when not landing on the staircase - but if the crowd falls from the same height, it does not survive. ;)
However, this should not be a matter of 1 pixel, i.e. precision:
I think it's because the Slider's feet are actually already much lower (8 pixels) when he turns into a Faller? Since he's dangling from the ceiling before he falls, whereas a regular Walker turns into a Faller immediately after losing ground.

It's kind of similar to how, as a kid, jumping down from something high seems much more dangerous when you're standing upright, compared to when you're crowching down before you jump... at least it took me a while as a kid to understand that the height I was jumping down was actually the same. :D

This could be a devious little trick, where you can use Sliders to break falls even in such cases where there isn't actually a straight wall to slide down... :evil:

I will also put the update in the levels thread where we collect them all; this is just to respond to IchoTolot's point.

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Although placing the big pillar at the right side just screams "simply glide into it to get down" instead of giving 2 extra shimmiers and the slider!

In fact, I originally intended for the lemming to have to jump over to the pillar to slide, instead of sliding down the steel and transitioning straight into a Shimmier. The pillar remained in there as a red herring. :P


Your minor backroute to "The Creation" was also interesting; this shows how the Spearer can create shortcuts similar to the Stoner. Not quite as powerful, of course, because you still need another lemming to place the spear correctly first, whereas Stoners can just break falls and provide a "foothold" for Builders when coming from the same side as the worker lemming. But still... these types of "drop down and go around the obstacle (in this case the steel wall that's supposed to prevent you from building from the right) from below" shortcuts are easy to overlook. Or rather, so far I only ever thought of them when providing Stoners.

464
Closed / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] New skills general discussion
« on: November 24, 2020, 11:53:12 AM »
Yes, that is one possible backroute to "Microcosm". I guess I will eventually have to enforce the 2-Laserer solution and cut the Spearer from this particular level. ;)

"Thus spoke Zarathustra" was solved, as feared, with just one worker lemming instead of two. However, this is only possible due to the high ramp, which is needed as long as we have the current Slider-Swimmer behaviour. If this is changed, I can lower that ramp. If now, I'll have to dent the ceiling in such a way that you can't jump off the ramp to reach for the ceiling.

Have you seen my level "The Creation"? It wasn't in your "Strato Exp Skills levels" ZIP. And that one should definitely need the Spearer to work.

465
Congratulations for being the first one to beat the Old-Formats version, kaywhyn! :thumbsup:

That gargantuan pack was definitely a one-off on my part. ;) Especially the Encore rank probably could have been left out by me in hindsight. Sure, Flopsy included his entire MegSEBytes pack in SEB Lems - which is what inspired me to do the same with (most of) my previous song-title levels - but the MegSEBytes levels were of much higher average quality than my Encore rank. In general, the structure of LWT, being divided into a "main part" and two "bonus ranks", was very much inspired by SEB Lems. So when I attempt SEB Lems again, I would definitely also split it, first trying to solve everything up to the end of the Rapture rank, and then taking a break before I look at the rest.

Anyways, I'm still trying to determine where the sweet spot for pack size is. Usually I like them at 100 levels at least - original Lemmings had 120, ONML had 100, and with regards to custom packs, NepsterLems clocks in at 111, which is also quite a nice number. With my current packs, I try not to go above 120 levels per pack.

Paralems was probably already too much from my side with 150; Lemmicks had even more, at 170, though I felt it was more justified in that case because the constant change of gimmicks kept mixing things up. The player needs some time to get used to the different mechanics on each rank, after all.

Lemmings United of course is pretty huge as well, and I believe it's the second largest pack, i.e. after Lemmings World Tour. That said, what's deterring me from that pack is not its size, but it's sheer difficulty, of which I have already gotten a taste when playtesting just the first rank. It definitely seems to be the optimum of level quantity and quality among all packs currently released (that is, if you equate "quality" partly with "difficulty" :P ; but I definitely can also see the huge amount of effort IchoTolot put into designing the terrain landscapes. So that I have some pretty level pictures to admire, even if I can't solve them :D ).

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