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Messages - mobius

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2521
General Discussion / Re: What was your first computer?
« on: October 08, 2012, 03:07:17 PM »
Quote from: Prob Lem on 2012-10-08 05:31:50
Interesting replies thus far - thanks, guys. :thumbsup:

Quote from: möbius on 2012-10-07 13:22:57
Another memorable thing was after that computer my next was a Compaq that had that version of Windows which instead of a regular desktop it was a 3D model of the inside of a house. The ‘living room’ was where the games were and the kitchen was maintenance things I think (like services and device options). I can’t find a picture of this anywhere… I can’t remember what it was called though. Anybody else ever have this or hear of it? [I could be wrong-and maybe it wasn’t even Windows. But if it wasn’t I have no idea what it was called]
It wasn't Microsoft Bob, by any chance, was it? ;) (More information here.)

thanks for the link! That's close but not exactly what I had. Plus I don't remember the name Microsoft Bob. Whatever mine was it was a little more realistic and less cartoonish. But it was the same idea. It also came with some unusual games, like one where you had to match musical instruments with a country around the world.
I also could be mistaken and the Compaq was my first computer and Packard Bell was the second.

2522
Challenges / Re: Which levels can be beaten without assigning skills to more than one lemming?
« on: October 08, 2012, 12:11:00 AM »
screenshots for both. I really like that I’m not using glitches on a lot of these. I didn’t think this many would be possible. Also, to anybody reading these the ones I’m skipping over are ones I was either having trouble with or just don’t feel like doing right now, so nobody’s saying they’re impossible.
Also, I haven't been strictly trying for 100%, in fact I've been lazy with a lot, it just so happens that a lot of these are not really that difficult to get 100% done this way.

10-2 Legend of Smelly Belly 100%

Quote
-start the first one building up to the second platform.
-make him climber+floater so he climbs into the middle weasel trap.
-build over the laser gate, then let him climb out right and build to the lower laser that resets the door.
-after activating that, when he comes back build up to the top laser.
-dig down and get back into the middle weasel area.
-build left to your earlier bridge so he turns around but make sure he doesn’t activate the laser (and thus free the weasel).
-then build to the right so lemmings coming from the left to the right will walk over the laser then up over the lip.
-Dig on the stair connecting that platform to the other platform. Let him go down to the balloon then build over the balloon and build back left to catch the other lemmings.
-let him climb into the bottom weasel trap and free the weasel. You must use 1 builder to sneak by the weasel, but it’s actually easier than trying to build over the laser.
-He’ll come back to the start area. By this time all the lemmings are milling about in the start area and the door doesn’t close because of what I mentioned in the glitches thread. It stays around 4-7. Let him turn around and go back to the second platform and now build up to the “safe” middle weasel trap. If he turns around it’s okay.
-Once he gets there, dig through the steps over the balloon.

10-7 Rocket Science 100%

Quote
-make lem 1 a climber
-when he gets to the top, build up to the little ledge to turn him around. Build up to the top.
-After the speed up pads mine into the rock with the steel blocks. build to stop near the edge so you can just bash free later.
-After he comes back, build again to the little ledge to turn around, mine through your steps then mine into the holding area.
-Build out of the holding area. Just make sure you’ve built enough times to block the way underneath the little ledge first.
-fix the bridge to the top, then bash through the rest of the obstacles to the balloon.

in this picture I messed up a few times but you have enough builders to recover.


2523
General Discussion / Re: What was your first computer?
« on: October 07, 2012, 07:22:57 PM »
My first computer was a Packard Bell from 1992 or 3. It had Windows 3.1 and DOS. That’s the computer I first played Lemmings on. I only had the first game. The only two other DOS games I ever had was Pole Racer (or whatever that racing game is called) and that game where you have to shoot down bombs/planes that slowly come from the sky from your base at the bottom of the screen. Both of which I thought were incredibly boring compared to Lemmings. I also had one other game but it never worked so I don’t even remember what it was.
Windows 3.1 is so old, but it’s really memorable. One thing I did a lot back then was (using “paintbrush”) making drawings of my favorite Lemmings levels and some of my own. The paintbrush program was odd to me because I remember if you zoomed in on a color purple for example, you’d see pixels of red and blue.
I kept it and continued using it for a long time after we got other PCs but I finally gave it to a friend a few years ago. Maybe it was more like... 5 to 10 years ago (time goes fast!). I think something broke like the motherboard.

Another memorable thing was after that computer my next was a Compaq that had that version of Windows which instead of a regular desktop it was a 3D model of the inside of a house. The ‘living room’ was where the games were and the kitchen was maintenance things I think (like services and device options). I can’t find a picture of this anywhere… I can’t remember what it was called though. Anybody else ever have this or hear of it? [I could be wrong-and maybe it wasn’t even Windows. But if it wasn’t I have no idea what it was called]
This computer came with the big big Microsoft entertainment pack that had chips challenge.

My grandfather had a Commodore 64 but he only ever used it in conjunction with his Ham radio to type messages.

I had a game boy, Super Nintendo, my cousin had Nintendo and Sega Genesis, but we never knew Lemmings existed on those consoles. And my cousin used to ridicule me for playing Lemmings on my PC saying it was a boring game!

2524
Tech & Research / Re: Version Differences
« on: October 07, 2012, 04:15:35 AM »
Quote from: ccexplore on 2012-10-06 20:33:06
Quote from: möbius on 2012-10-06 11:55:58
According to most sources I'm seeing; using two mice isn't possible on Amiga. [Sources being; here and a few unreliable short game description sites]

 ??? I think you mean Atari ST not Amiga above.  I'm pretty sure even Wikipedia has the info sourced directly from Mike Dailly that they took advantage of Amiga's 2-mice support for 2-player mode, while on DOS Lemmings the support does not exist and so there's no 2-player mode there.

oh yeah I meant Atari ST.

According to most sources they say Amiga is the only or one of the few consoles that supported two mice. [not two players]. On the ST you had to use a joystick? according to finlay.
The first post should say all that now.
-----------
I just tried using two mice with my computer now, to my surprise it worked; of course they both control one cursor.
------------
the thread is getting pretty big, thanks for contributing everybody. :)
Other sites I've seen like Lemmings encyclopedia has a table which sounds nice at first, but a lot of these differences aren't things easily displayed in a table.

2525
Level Design / Re: No Builders
« on: October 06, 2012, 07:51:31 PM »
Quote from: Luis on 2012-10-05 14:13:41
Are you sure the Climber falling and landing on a terrain like in my level is a glitch? ??? Because that narrow gap trick works in the PSP too. That's how I was able to build the "Room with no exit" and "Let's go to the moon" levels with the diangle terrains. I put the slopes really close to each other to the point where even though there's a little hole, the Lemmings will walk up the slopes instead of walking down back to the place it came from. Seems like a normal thing to me. The small level that I made was only to show a new way for a climber to travel around. I was gonna make a level that uses that, but I'm still trying to picture how the level will look like.

whether it's a glitch or not is debatable. I should say; whether it's a good or bad thing is debatable. I thought of making a level like that but then I decided a situation where you have to build to the wall as the lemming climbs up then the builder closes it as he comes down is more challenging.
The idea I had (previously) was; you have to build up close to the wall like that, without connecting. This idea is less demanding on timing. It also relays on a technical maneuver, however, which can be very hard to grasp. But I thought of this a while ago as did other people apparently so maybe it's not a bad idea. [of course my idea wouldn't be 'no builders'...]

It can get tricky in Lemmix especially. I'm not sure if this is a problem you'd encounter with this or not (obviously it wasn't in the level you posted).
Quote
Because of the way climbers check for terrain above them, they can either climb through small overhangs at the top of a wall, or fall down when there is a tiny gap (which it should be able to get into) with terrain hanging above. The outcome depends on the height of the wall.
-from Glitches in Lemmings

2526
Tech & Research / Re: Version Differences
« on: October 06, 2012, 05:55:58 PM »
When I said there's a large gap at end of songs I meant, there's a gap between when the song ends and starts (loops) instead of looping smoothly. Due to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UIWPtmDHdw&list=UUzbdP4ABmGTgC2FCDz2kWKQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Of course, this is an emulator and for various other reasons it could be wrong so I’m not saying that’s right or not. I don’t have an Atari ST. It could also be just that song, If memory serves that particular songs does that on every version doesn't it? While every other songs loops seamlessly.

Another annoying things is that many of the YouTube videos I found to get information from for this are now gone. Two videos I found of the ST that I can’t find now seemed to have differences from these here.

According to this video below (I’m more inclined to say this is a real Atari ST) lemmings appear to walk slightly faster, and the clock goes down quicker. (I should say) the game speed is slightly faster than DOS. But I’m not sure on that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN-6toFU0

According to most sources I'm seeing; using two mice isn't possible on Amiga. [Sources being; here and a few unreliable short game description sites]

I also wanna say the messages on the marquee on the menu screen are different from DOS at least  :D
-------------
I didn't know DOS had a "cheat" code? How exactly does that work? Unless you just mean the level select code?

2527
Tech & Research / Re: glitches in other Lemmings games
« on: October 06, 2012, 04:11:50 AM »
I discovered a few new interesting things in Revolution today.

dig down a bridge glitch. I think somebody mentioned this before but I'm not sure (and I don't have time to look through the entire thread right now)

When a lemming digs on a stair, facing left and going the direction downward; he’ll dig a hole but he won’t fall through the stair, he’ll continue walking down. I still need to do more testing, but I think this only happens facing left (and going down).

--------------
another odd thing I noticed, which I don’t know if it’s a glitch or not:

I previously thought and observed that time doors work either direction. That is; when a lemming passes through from either direction, the counter always goes down. Until I recently played 10-2 Legend of Smelly Belly.
The time door in this level works completely differently; lemmings going to the right make it count down. But when a lemming passes going left, it goes back up!
This is also one of the few levels in which this time door can be opened up again (and get its timer reset via the laser gates).

First of all; when the door is reset its timer doesn’t right away go back to 5, it remains zero, until a lemming passes by.

As you can see from figure 2, you can actually get the timer to go up past its initial setting by having a lemming go in the wrong direction first, after being reset. (this door’s counter is original at 5). I'll have to tinker around some more tomorrow/later.

2528
Lemmings Main / Re: Officially-licensed Lemmings comic series from 1994
« on: October 03, 2012, 09:34:57 PM »
thanks for the post! That was a fun read. :D
I wish people made more official comics of games like Lemmings, Mario, Zelda and others.

Some people including myself made a few simple comics of our own on this forum a while ago. That was fun.

2529
Challenges / Re: Don't turn around!
« on: October 03, 2012, 03:19:06 AM »
In Revolution I just found one by accident. I wasn't really going through it at this time.

5-2 Kriss Kross  26/30

glitch –direct drop to exit. Technically speaking, I don’t consider this a glitch because there is a level in this game (Where is Caroll Vorderlem) in which this “glitch” is required to pass the level. Which is one reason I believe that this was never a glitch in any lemmings game, but that is arguable. I don't agree with that anymore; yeah it's annoying.

Quote

this also applies to the single skill challenge as well as the 1 skill per lemmings challenge.
-completely ignore the water lemmings
-Simply bomb 3 times through the top platform then once more on the platform directly over the blue balloon. Lemmings will fall directly into the balloon.

it’s also worth noting that the landing bomber glitch is not necessary since you can create a hole before he actually lands.

2530
Challenges / Re: Which levels can be beaten without assigning skills to more than one lemming?
« on: October 02, 2012, 11:39:53 PM »
9-7 Battle o’ Lemmuckburn* 100%
bash through steel glitch

-thanks to Pirohiko on youtube for this solution. (see this video for a good visual. My solution is very similar except of course, only using one lemming)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF2GfldELq0&feature=plcp

Quote
-set RR to 1
-mine shortly after falling off the steel platform, so he mines all the way till he hits the steel wall near the pool. The tunnel should be low enough that you can bash into it from the weasel area to free the lemmings later.
-When he comes back up bash through the steel. When he’s stuck inside, make him a climber facing left. Build over the balloon
-mine left to connect with the floor at the bottom.
-Let him go, turn around and facing right, bash into the tunnel at or near the base of it.
-once over the area where the weasel is, mine or dig down into it. Make sure the weasel is to the lemming’s right.
-When you get close to the weasel, dig directly when you’re above the right side of a pylon on the platform. If done correctly; you’ll make a tiny hole for the weasel to get through while your lemming has time to build over it safely.
-After the weasel is dead, bash into the right wall to free the rest of the lemmings in the miner’s tunnel from the beginning.
-Build up to the left to get out of the lower area, then build to fix the path in the miner tunnel to the balloon.



9-10 Waste not want not part 1 100%

Quote
-set RR to 99
-make him climber+floater, climb to the right.
-after flipping the switch mine into the platform to turn him and everyone around. The others should come out and follow him. When he turns around he’ll flip the switch reversing the doors.
-When he gets close to the door, build toward the door or the steel in between it. Make sure the other lemmings pass him and go down before the bridge is done.
-He’ll climb back up into the entrance area and break the laser gate. The other lemmings will follow the long path to the exit.
This uses only four skills (climber,floater,miner,builder)


9-11 Ouch me head 100%
screenshots attached
note: Pirohiko does a crazy job on this level by solving it without rotating the screen at all!  :o which inspires me to make this in itself a challenge but I'll have to think about it.

Quote
set RR to 1
method 1:
dig a trap hole, then send a climber out, build over the water, turn him around and then build back and mine to free the crowd.

method 2:
dig a trap hole, then send a climber out, build over the water, then let him go to the balloon, build over the balloon. Then at the edge of the platform dig until there’s one pixel of terrain left then build to the left. Stretch every bridge. He should build right to the top of the entrance. Mine to free the crowd.

EDIT:
I skipped over this one thinking it would be impossible and it turned out really easy.
9-5 Hit n Run 100%
glitch ? [bashing under gravity pad: not sure if this is a glitch because, when you think about it: what’s wrong with bashing under a gravity pad? But for some reason the game doesn’t let you, so you have to kind of force bash through it.]

Quote
-build up to the steel with the FF pad so they all turn around.
-make the lone lemming a climber. The rest will all end up stuck in an area safely next to the balloon.
-make him a climber, going left (upside down) out of the holding pit with the doors.
-Dig/bash under the gravity pad next to the lava so he continues upside down.
-Once he flips the switch dig again and bash into the steel and mine when he’s over/under the steel so he’ll turn around. Be sure to bash the whole area above the switch so he doesn’t press it again. Either mine or dig to stop him and he’ll walk all the way back to the balloon.
see the picture if it's confusing (it is a little confusing)

2531
Challenges / Re: Which levels can be beaten without assigning skills to more than one lemming?
« on: October 01, 2012, 01:45:43 AM »
I came up with a pretty neat solution for 3 levels in Revolution. Just to be extra perfectly clear, from now on unless mentioned; I used no glitches.

8-8 ‘Take her up to Warp speed Captain’. While it may not save the most it was fun.

23/25

Quote

-first have him dig right alongside the left wall at the beginning but stop him before he goes through so you create a hole all the lemmings will get stuck in.
-Then when about 21-22 have come out make him climber and when dig him right next to the steel so he falls through then climbs right back up. Two lemmings will then fall and go on to flip the switches that close the doors and die. If you have a few stragglers it’s okay.
-Meanwhile, the trailblazer will turn around at the entrance, have him build over the hole he just dug then free the crowd. He’ll go down with them and continue on to near the teleporter.
- When there; build to the teleporter. Make sure he’s away from the crowd at this point (or that he builds and they don’t go into the teleport right then with him.
-Let him go through, bash through the purple thing. Dig through the bottom platform and right after the speed up pad dig and mine into the lower area safe/underneath the shredder. All the lemmings should be back far enough to survive.
Depending on if you have any stragglers or where the shredder is you may be able to get through without having to avoid the shredder.


9-4 booby trap 50/50 (100%)

Quote

-set RR to 1
- build a bridge close to the entrance (not right away but close, a few paces away.) Let him fall and go around and come back to it.
-build a second time next to the bridge to make a double bridge (wall). Once he starts building set RR to 99.
-build a second time so he connects with the wall; but make sure of two things;
   -first he should be the only lemmings that ends up separated from the crowd. Everyone else should be trapped underneath the bridge.
   -second; build so that there is either a flat space on the double bridge on the floor or that the second build is exact to the (real) right wall. This is so he can dig down through it later.
[A lemming walking down a bridge cannot dig through it and fall down—he continues walking down the bridge even though he leaves a hole (I should post this in glitches, but it needs to be examined a little more)]
-once he’s separated on top, let him turn around and come back right again, then dig through the steps near the floor to make a wall on that side so the weasels are later trapped. Immediately make him a climber so he climbs up and then goes on to eventually flips the switch and free the way.
-When he comes back dig through the steps one last time, making sure to dig on a flat spot.


9-6 High dive 40/40 (100%)

Quote

-dig/build on the middle platform to trap all the lemmings.
-make him a climber facing left.
-when he gets near the large door, build up to it. Then build back to the middle platform.
-when he gets back to the crowd, dig and bash to open the way for them to mill about from here to the door. Let him climb out of the hole going right.
-Dig downward to survive the fall to the floor. You may have to bash to save time.
-Once over the  laser gate, dig then bash to get out after flipping it.

2532
Lix Levels / Re: Lix Community Level Set
« on: September 22, 2012, 03:28:12 PM »
new level.

I wanted to make a much harder one but it ended up being rather easy. Nothin' new  :-[

2533
Level Design / Re: need help
« on: September 20, 2012, 02:22:18 AM »
oh, thanx for that Link in the archive Luis.  never knew that was there  :XD:
---
Is work still being done on Lemmini? If there is where is there discussion about it and stuff?
---
 ??? What is ClamSpammer doing in that level you posted (here's one I prepared earlier)? Is that where he lives?  ;P

2534
Reviews / Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« on: September 20, 2012, 02:13:12 AM »
Quote from: ccexplore on 2012-09-19 17:17:13
When I started playing the game last December, I did screenshots of each level before any lemmings come out.  I forgot exactly why but I think partly so it's possible to examine a level at times when I don't want to actually fire up the game (especially at that point before GP's patch, so it's unplayable on Win7).  To account for the cylindrical nature, I always captured 4 screenshots per level.

Of course, I stopped playing after the 8th column and haven't gotten a chance to go back into it yet, so even if I found a good place to post the screenshots to, it won't cover many of the later levels anyway.

oh cool  :) That's nice. If you'd upload that I'd take it for my own reference as well. That would come in handy. You can put all the pics in or just one. I don't know which would be best, try and see. Maybe we could paste them together into one long horizontal pic. I looked online btw and didn't find much by the way of good quality pics.
Don't worry about after column 8, I can take pics of those if/when we ever get that far. I have a decent screen cap program now.

2535
Reviews / Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« on: September 19, 2012, 01:54:12 AM »
review thread for Lemmings Revolution.
Why let the reviewing end! I picked Revolution because it’s a game I love and I can’t review L2 or any of the others. (I could review paintball but that appears to have bad beef here. Not a single thread of discussion about that game! :o I’ll have to fix that eventually.)
Go from 4-5 to 4-6 etc.
Rules follow the same as the other reviews. (Except don't count on me to strictly enforce them. I'm easy).

I’m starting out with level 4-4 because all the levels before that are tutorial levels. If anybody really wants to review those levels you can of course. I personally think they’re mostly boring (even for tutorial levels)
I don’t know where to get pictures other than from the game itself. You couldn’t see the whole level from that however.
Thanks to finlay for use of his spreadsheet for much of the level information.
I’d kind of like to talk about general things about the game itself as well when they come up so feel free to do that. There’s a lot of things that bother me. (Despite this being my favorite Lemmings game).

4-4 Seafood Sarnie

Lemmings: 25
Save: 20
RR: <50 [< means RR can only go down, > means it can only go up. If otherwise not mentioned the RR is totally changable]
time: 10 minutes

skills: 20 bombers 20 blockers 20 builders, 20 bashers

good:  A good beginner level with a crab. I like the crab, I don’t really know why.  :D

bad: the laser gate is right by the entrance making it pretty pointless. Unless (as I’m guessing) it was just more tutorial stuff to show off what it does. Kind of an odd skill set for a beginner level.

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