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Lemmings Main / Re: thoughts on Lemmings game design
« on: January 28, 2023, 01:45:29 AM »
-tricks: this is quite a difficult decision for me; I agree with both sides of the argument. Another problem is what exactly defines a "trick" in this sense is very grey and how logical is the trick?
For example; the miners and builders turning; seems a fairly arbitrary design choice, while the trick of creating a notch in a wall with a basher or miner seems less arbitrary; should a basher be able to effect the terrain when they're not going to continue? Or should a miner be allowed to be assigned while standing on steel? and if so what happens? Do they waste the skill? My gut feeling as to what's most logical with the latter is the miner can be assigned, wastes a miner but doesn't turn around; but is delayed slightly. Already that's a bunch of factors that have a trickle down effect on how the level plays out.
Pure logic levels (and/or not so pure) really are my favorite; A Spot of Bother is an example, Devil's Right Hand by Nepster (I think), Dazed and Confused, Parking Garage and Pyramid Scheme by Geoff, also The Floodgates Open by Clam; and several of these also happen to be some of the hardest custom levels ever made (while some are rather easy). But the hard ones require a lot of logical reasoning, which anyone can potentially do without lots of experimentation or in depth game knowledge.
Again, don't get me wrong I still like the tricks; I just feel these logical puzzles are underused. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm not familiar with a lot of good ones in existence?
-Regarding decisions Simon made with Lix:
I'm honestly personally really torn on certain things like the RR and time limits. On one hand (time limits); I genuinely agree with how most puzzles games in recent years have moved toward no time limit. The game is simpler with one less factor in the way to worry about and it having been mostly arbitrary in the main game (and custom content often as well) anyway. However, there are the corner cases where a good puzzle is enforced [backroutes removed] elegantly by use a of a time limit. And the timer is a very simple mechanic everybody gets; doesn't need any explaining or anything to learn. And the player can pause the game at any time, not needing to be under actual pressure. If I were to include a timer; certain other factors would need to exist.
(for instance; no levels with 100 Lemmings and you need to up the RR just to have them come out in time). Every level with hoards of lemmings should naturally flow into the exit right on time, even if it's tight.
RR-- At first I was against removing that in Lix but now it feels likewise superfluous. Here there are other ways, and some very interesting of executing the same puzzle of spawn interval manipulation without it; runners, jumpers, setting up a unique terrain layout... In the end I'm now simply not as big of a fan of spawn interval manipulation as I was in the beginning. And this mechanic definitely is not as intuitive and not as simple as a time limit.
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I'd take the best (what I deem as the best) aspects of all of the Lemming games, or some that were terrible but could've been better.... that'll be for a later post.
For example; the miners and builders turning; seems a fairly arbitrary design choice, while the trick of creating a notch in a wall with a basher or miner seems less arbitrary; should a basher be able to effect the terrain when they're not going to continue? Or should a miner be allowed to be assigned while standing on steel? and if so what happens? Do they waste the skill? My gut feeling as to what's most logical with the latter is the miner can be assigned, wastes a miner but doesn't turn around; but is delayed slightly. Already that's a bunch of factors that have a trickle down effect on how the level plays out.
Pure logic levels (and/or not so pure) really are my favorite; A Spot of Bother is an example, Devil's Right Hand by Nepster (I think), Dazed and Confused, Parking Garage and Pyramid Scheme by Geoff, also The Floodgates Open by Clam; and several of these also happen to be some of the hardest custom levels ever made (while some are rather easy). But the hard ones require a lot of logical reasoning, which anyone can potentially do without lots of experimentation or in depth game knowledge.
Again, don't get me wrong I still like the tricks; I just feel these logical puzzles are underused. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm not familiar with a lot of good ones in existence?
-Regarding decisions Simon made with Lix:
I'm honestly personally really torn on certain things like the RR and time limits. On one hand (time limits); I genuinely agree with how most puzzles games in recent years have moved toward no time limit. The game is simpler with one less factor in the way to worry about and it having been mostly arbitrary in the main game (and custom content often as well) anyway. However, there are the corner cases where a good puzzle is enforced [backroutes removed] elegantly by use a of a time limit. And the timer is a very simple mechanic everybody gets; doesn't need any explaining or anything to learn. And the player can pause the game at any time, not needing to be under actual pressure. If I were to include a timer; certain other factors would need to exist.
(for instance; no levels with 100 Lemmings and you need to up the RR just to have them come out in time). Every level with hoards of lemmings should naturally flow into the exit right on time, even if it's tight.
RR-- At first I was against removing that in Lix but now it feels likewise superfluous. Here there are other ways, and some very interesting of executing the same puzzle of spawn interval manipulation without it; runners, jumpers, setting up a unique terrain layout... In the end I'm now simply not as big of a fan of spawn interval manipulation as I was in the beginning. And this mechanic definitely is not as intuitive and not as simple as a time limit.
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I'd take the best (what I deem as the best) aspects of all of the Lemming games, or some that were terrible but could've been better.... that'll be for a later post.