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Messages - mobius

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Lix Multiplayer Dates / Re: Lix Campfire, Sat, Dec 3rd, 17:00 UTC
« on: December 01, 2022, 10:34:36 PM »
sounds fun, unfortunately as per usual these days I may be going away either or both days so idk. If I happen to be home and not busy I will join!

Agreed: puzzle solving with two or more people is fun :thumbsup:

own topic: demand an answer once and for all why Simon refuses to add one-way terrain to Lix :lix-tongue:

Contests / Re: Level Design Contest #WasteMyTime
« on: November 29, 2022, 11:23:51 PM »
This is a fun idea. Wish I had time to implement a level.

Long time ago we already discussed how to create levels that take a long time to solve (penultimate paragraph in this post:
This could directly be applied here: just have X lemmings on X platforms of different lengths (see post - some prime P times a fixed amount of pixels L) that need a certain time to synchronize, and require them to bash at the end of the platform to get out. If they are synchronized, they all cluster on the same spot, and can pass a squisher trap with only one lemming dying. Otherwise, some of them will be at least L apart, and if the trap is fast enough it is guaranteed to at least take 2.

But I feel like you could even make a level here that requires no skills and just solves itself, 200x200 might be enough to waste 8 minutes just slowly walking down a zigzag path.

I want to set out to make an extremely long taking level now.... A custom level of the game Chips Challenge was made long ago that theoretically would take over 3 million years to complete. As mentioned in the attached thread, as soon as you take multiple game elements that move around and have them synchronize/desync you can quickly start creating exponentially long times of completion.

Lix Levels / Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« on: November 29, 2022, 12:05:37 AM »
thanks Simon for the many comments and the stream that got me thinking about this again.
Simon commented on difficulty of some levels; I'm fine with moving any of my levels as you see fit. I'm not good at judging the difficulty of my own.

I found the following levels substantially harder then their surrounding levels:

-Can't Reach it don't need it
-Land of Rainbows and unicorns

I thought was quite a bit easier than it's position.

-Lixes in Motion: I'm surprised this is placed this late in the game. Seems easier than this.

I found others but most of them are pretty subjective and since I haven't solved a lot of other levels around there either it's not great to judge before solving them.


-Conundrum: If you're okay with changing titles; I think "Get Behind me, Satan" is a more memorable one for this level.


Replacing levels: I can't find the thread right now where Simon mentioned I offer my level "Oblique Strategy" to replace a level. In any case; changing my mind about that maybe since this one uses a trick that another level in here uses pretty obliquely, no pun intended.

These two levels by Pieuw; The Last Laugh and Erbalunga and "Division of Labor"; both of these were based on levels by Pieuw who I only was getting to know at the time and in hindsight I picked some of his least best levels to showcase here. He has *much* more impressive levels to choose from than these... I'll gladly make some replacements for these. Division of Labor is only loosely based on his level, I've altered it significantly, not sure I'm all that happy with it.

Babylon Fading:
Strongly in favor of replace this level, it has little to nothing unique about it or anything I'm very impressed with. It ended up being a filler level in my own pack.

EDIT: - this level too; 6 gaps, five builders-- isn't all that great imo, kind of obvious what needs to happen, even for a beginner level, I might see if I have a better replacement.

Soulful Bounding Leap:
same as above, but I don't feel as strongly. I'm pretty sure I can come up with something better than this. ??????

Passing Engagement;

The Great Escape: another
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
, maybe I can find something more outstanding. [this was by tseug that I remade]

I will look at my own levels and a few lying around or Pieuw's and others that we put in Revenge of the Lemmings for instance and if any of these can get removed I'll try to find a level of similar difficulty. There are a handful of levels I've played in the past couple of years that blew me away and I think really deserve to be showcased here.

bummer that I missed this today; sadly my schedule just doesn't seem to be lining up too well lately to make it, but eventually I will. I did get to watch a bit of Simon's stream, looks like there was a good crowd. :thumbsup:

Reviews / Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« on: November 26, 2022, 08:56:46 PM »
12-3 All in
51 lemmings save all

1 climber, 1 floater 5 bashers, 5 builders, 1 miner and 1 digger

Good: Another interesting challenge of having one lemming separated from the rest of the crowd and setting up a safe path.

Bad: While this level isn't bad imo it's kind of meh, not super interesting with much unique going on. Also too easy for at the end of the game. It's a little bit obvious exactly what you need to do. Another teleporter that's kind of useless. [could've just put the balloon down there...]

Reviews / Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« on: November 13, 2022, 05:40:43 PM »
12-1 Green with Envy

15 Lemmings save all (5 lemmings of each: normal, water and acid, in separate hatches)

50 of each skill

Good: despite the enormous skillset this level still poses a decent and fun/unique challenge. While most levels the challenge is where/how to use the skills, this level the challenge lies totally in mapping out a path and how to divide out the three different types of lemmings. I think the essentially infinite skillset works well here, allowing a lot of leeway in the solution without spoiling anything. It's one of my favorites.

Bad: The only downside I can think of is the backroute; a glitch around the timed door directly under the starting area allows everyone to pass through it. Thankfully this isn't something I found when I played it myself.

-The only level I'm aware of with a different teleporter system. Most of the game teleporters are connected in pairs. A-B, C-D etc. Where as in this level there are... 4(?) total, someone correct me if I'm wrong, and 3 all connect to the one by the balloon. [re-entering the balloon teleporter takes you to one of the others, I forget which) this might be a tad confusing for a new player but given the layout of the level it's pretty easy to reason this before hand.

-random note: the massive skillset means this is a good level to test the game out, it's one I used frequently when exploring the many glitches in the game. :D

In Development / Re: Something in progress - No name yet
« on: November 10, 2022, 04:07:46 PM »
Thank you Mobius :D

if these levels are playable with NL and you're still looking for a tester I'll offer to attempt the levels!

Yes I'm making levels for NeoLemmix now. If you're interested in testing I'll reach out in pm to send some of them to you. Quite a few levels have already been tested in the past years, Akseli helped a lot in the beginning and Uberwolfie tested a few of them back in 2020. Help is always appreciated :thumbsup:

I probably told you years ago but your pack inspired a lot of my own designs. :thumbsup:

I do remember Mobilems fondly! Does it exist for NeoLemmix ? I played some packs like Icho's Lemmings Reunion (didn't complete it though :XD:) and I'm currently into Sublems, but I didn't keep up with everything that was made these past years.

It's "up to date" but still needs work, as you can see I never finished backroute fixing and I'm never happy with it as a final product but I'm very tired of working on it.

Good luck on Icho's pack; its super tough! :XD:

Reviews / Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« on: November 10, 2022, 03:58:23 PM »
ah someone finally revived it. :)

11-12 Two Laps Finale

50 Lemmings, save all

1 floater, bomber and blocker. 13 builders, 1 miner

After a string of backroutes and way too easy levels finally, a decent challenge. The layout is very sparse and intimidating. Lots of large gaps to cover and deadly falls. With a few teleporters, retractable walls and the balloon way up high, it's really not at all clear which way to go. Also one of the few levels in the game to require you to free a blocker with skills.

Very builder heavy. I get the feeling there are far more routes than the creators intended. Teleporter directions can get annoying in this level, much like Walk the plank or join the crew. Pressing the switch is not necessary.
Freeing the blocker with a miner or a staircase (the intended route?) is much harder than it needs to be. Of course you can just bomb glitch them free. Oddly precise (but not tight I don't think) time limit.


about "Goonies":
Part of me actually wonders if they forgot this game wraps around horizontally...
Or if perhaps; the people designing this level (and others) were designing before they even planned the game to wrap horizontally... [this is actually a very real possibility, as I probably mentioned before in this thread; this game went through development hell]

In Development / Re: Something in progress - No name yet
« on: November 07, 2022, 10:56:10 PM »
Hullo :)

Still working on this here and there, but still not sure where it's going.

Dodochacalo is AWOL. I got most of his levels on my computer but I can't seem to open them with the latest version of the editor, they fire a thousand errors :XD: They're perfectly playable with the Neolemmix player though, which I find odd. I'll have to look into this!

He made almost 30 levels and I'm close to 50, which in total makes a pretty decent amount for a pack. I'll keep working on my part until I'm happy with the amount and quality of the levels. I may post some previews and demos here at some point :D

I hope everyone is doing ok :laugh:

if these levels are playable with NL and you're still looking for a tester I'll offer to attempt the levels! Great to see you around and making stuff again! I probably told you years ago but your pack inspired a lot of my own designs. :thumbsup:

It's been ages since I played. I'll try to make this session, not sure yet what I'm doing those days but I'll probably be able to join either day.

I need to update Lix and figure out mumble again. Was unable to find the lix server last time I tried.

Lix Levels / Re: Lix Proof Collection (solutions for all levels)
« on: August 12, 2022, 10:38:50 PM »
I don't believe any replays exist on the github for the outtake levels of the community pack like "bulldozer"? unless I'm wrong. Does anybody have replays for those levels?

Reviews / Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« on: August 12, 2022, 12:35:59 AM »
11-7 Don't Let Them Out!

50 Lemmings, save 40

2 climbers, 2 floaters  5 bombers, blockers and builders, 1 basher, miner and digger.

Good: This level is quite notorious for me and super tough as well. This one remained unsolved for a long time and I saw that Kaywhyn also had difficulty with it. The apparently intended puzzle of 'going the backway' or working backrwards and getting around the weasels (or killing the weasels) AND
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
AND containing the crowd; there is a lot going on, and a lot to figure out. I'd say it's one of the hardest in the game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1) The title is silly as whichever solution you do, you absolutely have to 'let them weasels out'.
2) There's a pool up top that drains immediately for no reason then never refills. Until you figure this out you might worry that one of the switches refills it. There's also some other minor glitchy stuff like the way the bottom pool is partially walk-overable.
3) the switch/door near the beginning is completely pointless.
4) this level has a 50-50 fall near the beginning
5) Until Kaywhyn's LP demonstrated the 'intended' solution I honestly never knew about it. It is as mentioned above. There's some annoying timing on getting the weasels to be facing the right way to kill them, the bottoms ones that is. And bomber timing. There's another new trap that only appears in this level but fortunately isn't a big deal, but makes no sound.
But then of course there is the horrible backroute of bashing/building under the one-way-wall. This solution still isn't easy, mind you but it's the only one I knew about, and also the one in pirohiko's LP.
6) The timer is way too tight and overall the intended solution seems to be way too precise, if Kaywhyn's almost 2 hour long attempt is any indication.

Despite the flaws; this level actually inspired a lot of my custom content over the years :D

Lemmings Main / thoughts on Lemmings game design
« on: August 05, 2022, 07:37:17 PM »
If I ever made my own Lemmings game..... this is how it would be!

Feel free to suggest your own ideas or disagree and argue or whatever!

1) Block based physics/non-pixel based.

This essentially means that the "pixels" or every place a lemming can be assigned a skill will be larger than the actual graphical pixels. The game's definition will be high so as to be beautiful but they'll be no more "pixel precision" in skill assignment (at least to the degree of classic L1). Though I don't think I want anything as extreme as Lemmings 3D or even L3, unsure I don't have much experience with L3.

2) Logic based puzzles instead of "trick" based puzzles

I consider there to be 2 (maybe more but I won't discuss them here) basic types of Lemming puzzles. A "trick" level is one that requires use of some type of features or mechanic of some skill or object or gameplay itself, that may or may not be intuitive. I don't mean to say that these levels are bad (some of my favorites are these type) but they have faults: Often, a level like this may appear very difficult at first, if one does not know the trick involved. However, once one is made aware of the trick it can becomes trivial. They often can be solved quickly and easily the second time around or quickly at first if one knows the trick from the start.
A pure logic level on the other hand relies on no such trick but rather simple reasoning; timing, order of skill assignments etc. These levels may not rely on any intuitive or non-intuitive knowledge of the mechanics. They may remain difficult even after solving as the number of steps required to remember may be large (or not they could be very easy as well).
Now, it's probably fair to say that most levels don't strictly fall into one or another category but are a mix of the two. And based on all the custom levels I've played over the years it seems logical puzzles are more difficult to create. In any case, I'd like to focus on the latter.

This means some core concepts of L1 will be changed such as; builders will not longer always turn around. If a builder hits an obstacle and could keep walking onward; they will. Almost everyone gets stumped at Postcard from Lemmingland during their first playthrough of that game. Why? I think it's fair to say because the fact that a builder always turns around when being stopped prematurely is not an intuitive design. Why should they turn around? It was an arbitrary design choice. It seems natural to us; only because we're used to it. Of course there are solutions that don't require that trick, but most people seem to resort to that one. At least one solution I know is more clever and also more difficult to see and arguably doesn't rely on any such tricks.

3) Ease of Use/intuitiveness

The sign of a good game imo is when the player starts it up, begins playing and feels like it makes sense from the very beginning. It may take a while or may not be easy for example the player may get stumped at something for a while but when they finally figure it out the reaction should be: "Oh! of course, why didn't I think of that! Or that's clever or elegant!" NOT: "how would I have ever known to do that???"

see #2; level design should not come down to obscure mechanics that don't seem to  propagate naturally from the rules.

Graphics are big thing for me here; there will be no "true physics mode" in my game because it won't be necessary. Terrain should always look like terrain, a button should look like a button, steel.. etc. Background images/colors should not be confused with foreground.

(to be continued......)

L2Player / Re: Dev Journal
« on: July 29, 2022, 11:34:53 PM »
First of all: thanks so much for doing this! It looks like it's coming along great so far!!

I'm not alowed to post to the topic on the test release so I'll ask here:

So I need to run this program within DOS Box? or is it supposed to run alone? Is it compatible with DOS Launcher?

Lix Main / Re: trampoline bug? unexpected behavoir?
« on: July 18, 2022, 01:42:45 AM »
I would personally think that vertically, it should always produce the same arc, or at least that levels should be designed so that slight differences don't have significant impact on the result. I'm a bit less decided on horizontal offsets. Different arc depending on the distance fallen onto it and/or whether the lix is a floater is something I could see going either way.

interesting cause my intuition is the opposite; "realistically speaking" [which i don't know if that's what you're going for anyway] falling from higher means bouncing higher so a higher fall/floaters would effect vertical height. I'm not so sure about horizontal movement. Simplicity is probably best here, imo. Honestly up until now nothing about Lix's tumbling and bouncing behavior seemed off to me; felt natural, intuitive and understood quickly, so :thumbsup:

It could be that a lix coming into contact with a trampoline always follows the exact same arc, and goes to the same spot. That would be simple and intuitive (maybe not so much) but idk if that's best. From what I remember of L2; going different places with the trampoline can get finicky real quick.

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