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Messages - The Tomato Watcher

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Lemmings Main / Re: [INDEX] Official Lemmings resources
« on: January 14, 2022, 11:33:22 PM »
Well, I've got a whole game's worth of resources to add. :D

Here all the graphics, sounds, and MIDIs for Lemmings Tribes (2008)!

The original files were listed as seemingly random hexadecimal numbers with no extensions, so it took some trial and error to figure out which file was which. Beyond that, many of the image files were almost... glued together in these much larger files, not unlike SBLAST.VOC in L2, so I had to extract the bytes for each individual one with a hex editor. Aside from that, the files are untouched.

Oh, right, these are from the version of the game for phones with 240x320 displays, but we're likely not missing much except for chunkier versions of the graphics posted here.

As far as the goal of matching the physics goes, it does that pretty much perfectly. I just don't like how it looks. But of course with high-res graphics operating with low-res physics, there's a trade-off between how good it looks and how good it matches the physics

Frankly, I'm baffled that this is even a problem for some people. Lemmings is a pixellated game. "Hi-res" is something of a misnomer, in all honesty; sure, it's double the resolution, but we're still only dealing with tens of pixels even for quite large pieces.

I think his problem is less about the absolute resolution, and more about how the lower resolution of the masks and the higher resolution of the terrain clash with each other, and I'd have to agree with him. Being able to see the pixels, even in hi-res, is fine. The problem arises because the low-res masks look blocky compared to the hi-res terrain. Diagonal edges that are implied to be smooth in low-res look jagged in hi-res, simply because there is more detail around it to compare it to. It's all about context. This is, in fact, the main reason I don't much care for the Windows version graphics. All diagonal edges look jagged because there's more detail on the interior of terrain to compare it to. Now, of course, Mac terrain pieces and NL upscaled terrain pieces don't have this issue, but the destruction masks still do.

Lemmings Main / Re: Mac graphics, anyone?
« on: January 14, 2022, 03:47:59 PM »
I removed 4 vertical strips of pixels from each, scattered throughout the width of the block, making sure not to disrupt any defining features. How do these look?

WinLemm tiles ... crystal tileset (and maybe another one) doesn't even have specific hi-res terrain graphics

Yes, they do. All official styles are hi-res in WinLemm's resources.

Ah, sorry, I should have been more clear. What I really meant was that the hi-res terrain graphics for the crystal tileset are just the low-res ones but doubled in size, as in, they are technically hi-res, but they don't have any more detail than the low-res ones. The objects have unique hi-res graphics though.

I'm a bit split on this. I personally don't think WinLemm tiles (the ones for terrain, anyway) look that great, not to mention that the crystal tileset (and maybe another one) doesn't even have specific hi-res terrain graphics, but since they all have edges that line up exactly with low-res pixel boundaries, they wouldn't result in any added ambiguity. Plus, WinLemm has fully hi-res objects which generally look pretty good, and personally, I feel that there is no negative with including them no matter what broader option is chosen (except for maybe the double-size low-res option).

As for terrain, both WinLemm tiles and upscaled tiles have their pros and cons for me. WinLemm tiles have some finer detail (if only on the interior of terrain pieces) but they also look kinda dark and murky, generally. Upscaled tiles are fuzzier with less detail, but they are, pretty much by definition, just as bright and colorful as the low-res tiles. I think it really depends on how important physics pixels being visible without CPM is to people.

so just to be clear; are these from those mobile games you recently talked about in video?

Yep! Specifically from the last one, Lemmings Tribes, since the other two just reuse L1 assets.

All this time, there's been one last official Lemmings game out there that used pixel graphics that could be imported directly into NeoLemmix, but hadn't been yet... Until now.

Introducing the official Lemmings Tribes styles!

The Classic Tribe:

  • 43 terrain pieces (though some groups work best as one) including a resizable "filler" piece and a steel block
  • 2 infinite-use traps
  • water resizable in both directions
  • mostly unmodified background from the original game (luckily enough, it almost tiled perfectly already, at least horizontally)

Medieval Tribe:

  • 44 terrain pieces (though, again, some groups work best as one) including a resizable "filler" piece and a steel block
  • 1 very, very big infinite-use trap (slightly modified as the original animation was mildly bugged)
  • water resizable in both directions
  • significantly modified background to make it tile without looking broken

Space Tribe:

  • 24 terrain pieces including a steel block
  • 1 infinite-use trap (modified to be a bit smaller)
  • added locked exit
  • significantly modified background to make it tile without looking broken
  • (and, hopefully in the not-too-distant future, portals! in the form of weird laser machine things :P )

These styles and the levels pictured here are attached below.

New Objects / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] Sound effects for new objects
« on: January 12, 2022, 11:26:48 PM »
For the portal in particular, I think either one of the teleporter sounds from PS3 Lemmings could work pretty well. I've attached them below. I think I'm leaning more toward number two, since it's more of a swoosh sound like WillLem mentioned, and I could see #1 being a bit annoying/grating. But I could see either one working.

Lemmings Main / Re: 607 plays Lemmings 1 and ONML
« on: January 06, 2022, 05:01:40 AM »
The Amiga version will always be the one I think of as definitive, anyway. All other contemporary ports seem to be in some way watered down, missing levels, or - as you've mentioned - missing the 2-player mode. Even the Mac version, which has better graphics and a fast-forward button, messes up some of the levels so that they become prohibitively difficult.

Japan got the Sharp X68000 version though, which is basically a facsimile of the Amiga version, 2-player mode, intro, blue background and all, but with fast-forward (though it's activated by pressing SHIFT+2 which is absurd), both DOS and Amiga keyboard controls, FM synth music (that's nowhere near as abrasive as the DOS version's AdLib soundtrack can be!), and a fun little credits sequence. ;)

I don't know if that's outside the realm of this discussion or not, but I had to bring it up. :P

Sorry for the flood of posts, but I have a new piece to propose for the L3 Shadow style. In the original game, there's an incinerator trap that I noticed was absent from the current style, so I decided I'd try to remake it (with secondary animation of course ;) ). Now, I'm not aware of a great way to get the original animation to modify, so I had to redraw it from scratch, using a gameplay video as reference. I did, however, manage to get a clean image of its idle state. My redrawing of the animation isn't super great, especially because most of the colors used in the original animation aren't found anywhere else in the style, and I was hesitant to use colors outside of the official styles, so the flame looks a bit dull, and some dithering was used. Hopefully it's passable, but if not, I'll try my best to make it better.

Alright, here are the improved animations! I took all your suggestions except for the L3 biolab smasher trap, since I like the look of the top flashing only. The Egypt trap now has its mashers moving in and out, the Highland trap now moves more fully and noticeably, even if it's perhaps a bit stilted, the Polar trap now has the funnel on top animating instead of a two-pixel flashing light, and the robot has a second secondary for its eyes in addition to the little thing in the back. I also included an updated version of the L2 Medieval dragon trap secondary, because I made a small but annoying animation error that I couldn't live with. :forehead: Any needed updates to the .NXMOs or the base animations are included in the .ZIP.

Looking over them, I'm pretty happy with most of these. The ones I think need improvement (but added these ones for now):
- l2_egyptian:trap_masher - I'd personally think something similar to the squasher traps in the Marble and Brick style would work better here?
- l2_highland:trap_flower - I like the idea but perhaps the rest of the flower, particularly the head, should move a bit too?
- l2_polar:trap - Not noticable enough IMO.
- l2_space:trap_robot - I'd keep that as well since it helps reinforce that the whole thing is the trap, but it definitely needs something closer to the front as well. Maybe a glow in the eye?
- l3_biolab:trap_smasher: Should the bottom half have this glow too?

All valid criticisms! Making the mashers move in and out would probably be better for the Egypt trap considering how small the button is. For the flower, I didn't think I was competent enough to do anything else to it, but I'll try. I absolutely agree with you on the Polar trap, two flashing pixels is not enough. I just didn't have many great ideas for that one, but I have a few now. Same for the robot trap, a glow in the eye would be much better, but I'll keep the little metal thing on the back moving as well. I thought about that for the smasher trap, but I honestly just preferred having the glow on top only. But yeah, I'll redo at least some of these.

NeoLemmix Main / Re: [DISC] NeoLemmix sounds
« on: December 18, 2021, 04:51:31 AM »
The "chink" sound plays for the last 3 builder bricks only in some of the later versions of L1, such as the Windows and PS1 versions (in fact, its high-fidelity equivalent plays for builder bricks as well in all console Lemmings games since PSP L1), so that's probably what you're thinking of. In NL (and most versions of L1) however, "ting" is the sound that plays.

In Development / The Lemmings Chronicles... Remastered! [DEMO RELEASED]
« on: December 17, 2021, 04:26:39 AM »
I've seen some discussion on here about converting some L2 levels to NeoLemmix. That got me thinking: what about L3? Sure, the physics are entirely different from both L1 and L2, but that doesn't need to be a problem as long as you redesign the levels to better fit NL physics. The enemies could be replaced with zombies in most cases, and with all the new skills in NeoLemmix nowadays, almost every skill in L3 is in NeoLemmix in one form or another, minus a couple of the more situational or finicky ones. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the that the entire game, more or less, could be converted to NeoLemmix. So that's what I set out to do. And so far, it's going quite well.

At the moment, I've converted the first 10 levels from each of the 3 tribes. When possible, I tried to preserve the look and layout of the original level, but whenever that caused a problem, gameplay always took priority. Some of the recurring changes you'll see are...
  • 8-pixel-tall stairs being made less steep or replaced with slopes
  • Traps added to enforce something close to the original solution (though a few levels have mostly different solutions to avoid absolute insanity and hideous looking levels)
  • Tall levels being shortened due to the shorter splat height
  • Big levels being miniaturized in general
  • Entirely different ways of dealing with enemies/zombies due to a lack of a certain copyrighted fireball...

Egyptian 8 - Choose Wisely... (heavily miniaturized)

I also did a few things to get closer to the original gameplay, where pick-up skills are individual instead of global. In some cases, if said skill was an L1 permanent skill, I put it on a pre-placed lemming instead, and made sure that skill wasn't available anywhere else, so only that lemming can do the task you need. I should also note that I didn't strictly follow L3's rules for skills. By that I mean, in some levels, walkers, blockers, and/or jumpers are finite, or skills that aren't those three are available right away. Additionally, the straggler lemmings are required to be saved to move on (unless one has to be a bomber or something). I have a feeling most people here would agree that that's the right move, but if someone presents a convincing case for them to be for talismans instead, I'll reconsider. I've also given the levels new titles, as, weirdly, L3 is the only mainline Lemmings game that doesn't title its levels at all. I'm proud of some of them, but I'm definitely open for suggestions there. Finally, I condensed the story and lore from the bloated intro cutscene into a few preview screens.

The attached .ZIP is the initial demo. This demo contains the first 10 levels of each tribe (probably a bit much but whatever). Later levels will definitely need more drastic changes and a few may need to be outright replaced, so before I mess with all that, I'd like to see how you all like the idea and what you think of my current progress. Again, I'm open for any suggestions you may have.

The music can be downloaded from here: The music is from the CD-ROM version of the game, with two tracks from different versions of L2 to make all the tribes have three tracks. Unzip the levels into your levels folder, unzip the music into your music folder, and enjoy!

NeoLemmix Main / Re: [DISC] NeoLemmix sounds
« on: December 14, 2021, 05:20:28 PM »
The most bothersome sound to me is the zombie sound. Especially when it plays at the start of a level; I'm never ready for it. I think it could use a quieting down.

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