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Messages - zanzindorf

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Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 15, 2020, 03:29:51 am »
I'm not sure of any packs off the top of my head that use this feature.

WillLem's Amiga Lemmings Project uses that feature I think:

It's organized like this:
-Original Lemmings
        -The Original Ranks, and a rank for the 2P levels
-Oh No Lemmings
        -Oh No Ranks, and a rank for the 2P levels

For me, for this pack, the player handles this on the menu by cycling through the original ranks if "Original Lemmings" is selected in the level selector menu, and cycles through the Oh No ranks if the "Oh No Lemmings" is selected in the level selector menu. It kinda acts like two level packs nested into a single level pack, which you pick via the level selector menu.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 14, 2020, 01:12:07 am »

* Changed eyes, hopefully less soul piercing :lem-mindblown:
* Fine tuned anti-aliasing in a few places.
* Swapped the gold talisman to the front.
* Adjusted text, made it a little more bold, hopefully easier to read.

Attached are the following:
* Menu images which can work in the current version (tested in V12.9.4)
* The first five rank text images in gfx/menu are padded with empty pixels to force it to work in the current version (as Namida suggested :thumbsup:), but also included are the unpadded versions in the "Unpadded Steps 1-5" folder.
* Alternate rank images for "Rank 1-5" (as suggested by Simon), "Oh No: Crazy - Wild", "Original: Fun - Mayhem", and "Redux: Gentle - Lunatic". All of these haven't been tested thoroughly, so if you notice anything off, let me know. All of these alternates are in the gfx/menu folder.
* Separated layers of each graphic, including the logo. This is good for testing out your own font or text on the existing buttons.

Also, just noting, by submitting these, I'm not saying this is the finished product, or that more alternate ideas shouldn't be posted, I'm just posting these source files in case anyone wants to mess around with them, or try and fine tune things on their own. I'm still happy to continue making changes if needed. Having all the layers separated out makes collaboration easier and faster, so I thought It'd be good to throw it out there. I'm still thinking of alternate logo ideas like WillLem suggested, I just haven't come up with anything.

One idea I had was "NeoLemmix" text in the style of the Psygnosis logo:

I really like it's 80s rock band ascetic, and it's retro computing vibe, though such a design might require a completely different set of menu buttons as well, which is interesting to think about.

Another thought I had was something that incorporates the blue "home" sprite that's currently used for the NeoLemmix Editor executable, the one that's themed after the marble style home sprite. I'm not entirely sure how to incorporate that though.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 12, 2020, 08:58:08 pm »
I too really like your designs here. :D

Yay! I'm glad you like it :laugh: The feedback I've been getting has helped a lot.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 12, 2020, 07:29:57 pm »

Here's another mockup. This one is to test a different size for the buttons. I went with Namida's estimate instead of the full 200%, and I think that's the right choice. Now the graphics are 87 pixels tall I think. I added back a more subtle texture on the buttons. The rank graphic is still the same size, just on a larger panel.  I also redrew the lemmings for the new aspect ratio, though, they may need more work. Any feedback is appreciated!

Showcard Gothic

That's a good shout, I'll look into that font and others. Regarding alternate logo concepts, I've been thinking about other designs, but I can't seem to come up with anything, other than a redesign of the original DOS one. I'm open to suggestions, and would also totally love to see designs from others.

Regarding backwards compatibility:

Taller buttons look good, I'm in favor of it, and I don't think it will really interfere with the shorter buttons from older level packs. The mock up seen above is displaying in V12.9.4 without any modifications, other than the rank graphic placement. The placement of the rank is the only thing that will need adjusting after switching to this new size, if we decide to go this route. Currently, the rank displays over the new, taller button like this in game:

To fix this placement and also account for the older buttons without breaking them, maybe it's position could be calculated based on the height of the graphic, so it's always roughly centered?

The only other modification that might be needed, is maybe all the buttons need to be shifted up closer to the logo and further away from the bottom text (If we keep the two rows, if we do one row, this wouldn't matter.)

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 12, 2020, 07:01:11 pm »

I just realized that I am in need of a logo for the introduction pack.

So I want to ask you, when the discussion about style and sizes is over, if you could maybe (if you have the time and motivation for it) create a logo in the same style as the new standard "NeoLemmix" logo that says "NeoLemmix Introduction Pack"? ???

Sure! I'd love to :thumbsup: I'll DM you for more info later.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 11, 2020, 06:16:54 pm »
Here's another mockup, this time only focusing on the logo and the play button:

Example 0: I reworked the anti-aliasing so it looks less jagged.

Example 1: Gave an example of my Cooper text on WillLem's button, per Dullstar's suggestion. I had to make it just a tad bigger.

Example 2: Reworked WillLem's button concept, kept the same theme, but made it more detailed and wider. Got rid of the texture from my last mockup. Also reworked the eyes (hopefully less creepy now lol). I gave the button a subtle gradient because I thought the one on WillLem's button was a bit too harsh, but I may have made it too subtle. There might be a happy middle ground, but I kinda like how it is. Makes it look more "shiny" if that makes any sense. This design also has more of a "button" look to it, which is important if we're implementing mouse compatibility.

Example 3: Mockup 2 (Based on the DOS menu but more detail)

Example 4: Mockup 1 (Based on the DOS menu)

RE the 200% stretch:

It's also worth noting the lemmings will likely look weird no matter what if the DOS version is used as a base: at least based on the Amiga version, it appears those graphics were originally intended to be drawn with a 200% vertical stretch, so they look a little squished.

That's super helpful, I did not realize. I'll remember this moving forward, but for now, I kept the same squashed look as the DOS menu simply because of the resolution limit.

For the current default resolution for a button sprite, one could fix the 200% stretch problem one of two ways: you could make the button smaller like WillLem's button, or you can halve the width of just the lemming. A smaller button in my opinion just kinda makes the menu feel more empty. On the other hand, halving the width of the lemming allows you to keep big buttons, but it also makes the lemming seem lanky and weird (it would need super long arms to hold the wide button).

Keeping the aspect ratio as it is I think would be fine, it doesn't look super weird to me, but maybe that's just because I've been looking at it for so long. I always just assumed they were short lemmings lol, or maybe they were sitting down behind the signs and resting it on their feets. Maybe I'll do some theoretical designs of the buttons if the graphics were a bit taller by default.

Thanks for all the feedback! It's super helpful. I think I'm going to work on designing an entire menu around "Example 2" and see how it looks. I'll also explore more options for fixing the squashed look.

Non-Lemmings Gaming / Re: What video game(s) are you playing at the moment?
« on: September 11, 2020, 12:22:19 am »
I just finished Vikings of Midgard, an OHRRPGCE game that's been in development since ~2007. The creator recently posted the full version, and it's fantastic!

The OHRRPGCE is a RPG making engine with a healthy community of developers. In the past, Vikings of Midgard has been packaged with the engine as an example of what you can accomplish with it. Even before it was fully released, Vikings is probably one of my favorite games of all time :laugh:

It's free, and can be found here:
Soundtrack streamed here:

It's very much a traditional RPG, similar to the SNES Final Fantasy games. It's got a lot of HP Lovecraft and Norse mythology in it, which is neat.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 10, 2020, 09:47:30 pm »
the eyes on some of the lemmings are really bothering me they just look weird.

Lol I kinda agree now that I step back. The ones with the "play" and "talisman" buttons especially don't translate well. The ones in the original DOS version have the same expression, but it just looks kinda weird in HD the way I did it. I'll take another crack at it.

I really like the background, but let me see if I can come up with an alternative just for comparison sake.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 10, 2020, 08:11:30 pm »
Ok, this looks just straight up awesome! :thumbsup:

Thank you! Glad you like it :laugh:

I think it's not the stage number Proxima is worried about, but the "Fun","Tricky","Havoc".... signs of the standard packs.

Ah, I see. Once I nail down the shading, I'll probably do alternate sprites for the Original and Oh-No rankings, as well as Redux. It's quick to do, even for custom words like havoc and mayhem :)

I made those, and IIRC was on a Windows 8 PC at the time. So it'll be one of the fonts that ships with Windows 8, assuming I didn't make it by hand (which I don't remember for sure either way). EDIT: Or possibly, one that gets installed along with LibreOffice (or did at the time), if it installs any of its own fonts.

Thanks! That helps quite a bit. If I can find it, I'd like to do an alternate menu with that font just to see if we like it better.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 10, 2020, 06:25:48 pm »
One worry: It would be quite a bit of work to replace all the individual rank signs in the original packs with ones matching this style.

It's not too much work. I'm working in Photoshop, so I've just got to re-type the number and save. I've made the ones for rank 1-5 already just to test out the look, but I thought I'd wait to make the rest until I get some feed back and maybe tweak a few things.

Not sure if it would help anyone, but I was thinking I could post the photoshop files too once I'm done, so people can edit the buttons easier for custom packs (If they have photoshop). If not, I can post the layered renders.

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 10, 2020, 04:18:11 pm »
Here's another version. My aim was kinda towards a more modern look like WillLem suggested. The button text is completely different, now matches the font I used for the logo. It's a lightly modified "Cooper Std", bold for the logo, bold italics for the button text. Any input on the text would be great. I'm fairly happy with the letter shapes, but I think the shading could be tweaked a bit more.

Does anyone happen to know the font name for what's currently being used for the rank text on the original NeoLemmix menu? It's kinda a nice cursive style font, but I couldn't seem to match it, so I switched to Cooper Std.

(The cursor is also added for demonstration purposes.)

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: September 05, 2020, 04:22:36 am »
Late to this conversation, been reading through what's been shared, apologies if I'm missing anything.

After reading comments on cursors, I think my preference would be:

1: We use the existing cross hair. 3D Lemmings did this, and it didn't look out of place at all.
2: We use a standard pixel cursor. I think I prefer a pixel cursor over an HD cursor simply for stylistic consistency.
3: We use a lemming hand. Lemmings 3 and Paintball used hands. So did Lemmings 2, but that one didn't look great imo.

Below is a preview of what the three options could look like (The large red numbers highlight where the cursors are). Obviously the cross hair is from the game, the pixel cursor is something I drew real quick (tried to match the style of the text on the billboards), and the lemming hand is from Lemmings Paintball (but recolored to match the other lemmings on this menu).

This example is based on the menu changes I posted earlier. Also exampled here is how the menu buttons could look if the cursor was hovering over (note the yellow outline). This particular yellow outline makes the menu button graphic slightly larger than it's default size, so I don't know if that's a problem, but it does look kinda nice. Programming wise, you could just have two images per each button, one for normal, and another altered version for when the mouse is hovering over it.

In addition, we could have the cursor change colors or change animation while the cursor is hovering over a button (like the hand gives a thumbs up or something). Not only is this for looks, but it could also accommodate for older level packs which have custom menu buttons, but do not have the "active" version of the button. This way, if there is no highlighted version of the button to display, the game will still indicate when the cursor is hovering over a button.

Sorry if this has already been discussed. Hopefully this is somewhat helpful. :P

Engine Bugs / Suggestions / [SUGGESTION] [PLAYER] Main Menu Improvements
« on: September 04, 2020, 03:30:40 pm »
I have a suggestion for the main menu in the NeoLemmix player. The text is a little inconsistent in style when comparing the difficulty meter and the other elements like the "Play" and "Select Level" billboards, so I tried to redo the signs so they match. Also, I thought it would be neat to redesign the NeoLemmix logo to resemble the original style a bit more, which would also improve the overall consistency. I also took a crack at a new talisman design, which displays on the main menu and the talisman menu.

* New logo
* New play billboard (text modified from original DOS menu).
* New level select billboard (text modified from original DOS menu).
* New settings billboard (Added a shadow to the gears and added a music note similar to the one from the original DOS menu).
* Added a shadow to the text on the Difficulty Step billboard.
* New talisman graphics and new talisman bilboard.
* New quit billboard (made from scratch because the letters weren't present in the original DOS menu).

I will attach the new graphics so anyone can mess with them if they want. Also, if you want to suggest changes to my designs, I'd be happy to work on them more! :thumbsup:


Original Menu (V12.06.05)


New Menu (V12.9.4)


Lemmings Main / Re: I've been out of the loop
« on: September 04, 2020, 03:13:48 am »
I played the mobile Lemmings game for a bit. In standard mobile game fashion, they simplified the source material to the extreme, to the point where it gets old fast. The graphics are cute. It's a well designed mobile game, but it's still a mobile game. I would have preferred something with more complexity, but I think they're were aiming for a broader, more casual audience.

I've been out of the loop too. You could play my levels, but they're old. I kinda wanna start working on some news ones.

No problem :thumbsup:

Let me know if you end up making levels with it. I love seeing what people make with my tile sets :laugh:

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