Author Topic: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 6447 times)

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Offline IchoTolot

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Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« on: December 03, 2023, 04:26:33 PM »
All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix or Lix Player!

Lix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a3v1xu2gv9roiz1xuleuq/Contest_29_Lix.zip?rlkey=mkkmei2d0z9p8yq78pe4n878n&dl=1

The Lix levels will then be in the single/Contests/Contest_29 folder!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ezp9k9c1qgf6gugna263y/Contest_29_NL.zip?rlkey=gzjuosnkgx87naw1sdlid3nyh&dl=1

Music (NeoLemmix): https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mc6u3npi5mpqb2sq1q9vj/Contest_29_Music.zip?rlkey=xmh4v2iggu5v9ghziy2c2g6nf&dl=1


Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "Tensegrity" (V2)
Eric Derkovits's "Brick or Treat" (V7)
IchoTolot's "The Amazing Lemming Tightrope Act" (V1)
kaywhyn's "A-MAZE-ING Brick House Evacuation" (V6)


Rule 2 Levels

geoo's "Dangerous Goods" (V2)
Armani's "Got a New Toy" (V2)
Eric Derkovits's "Where No Lem Has Gone Before" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Legacy Of The Waffentraeger" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Lemmings vs the Jolly Roger Pirates" (V19)


Rule 3 Levels

geoo's "Origami Master" (V1)
Armani's "Color Coded" (V1)
Eric Derkovits's "Bee Here For You!" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Crossing Confusion Cross" (V2)
kaywhyn's "Fun Teleportation Race in Space" (V4)


You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6521.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 31th of January!
Updates will close on 28th of January!


Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

Link to update topic
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 04:50:18 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline zanzindorf

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2023, 10:53:46 PM »
I played through the Rule 1 submissions. Attached is a replay for Tensegrity, Brick or Treat, and A-MAZE-ing Brick House Evacuation. (I'll come back to level 3)

Notes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2023, 11:24:12 PM »
Solved both of geoo's Lix entries. Replays attached ;) I don't smell any backroutes here!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


@zanzindorf

Thanks for playing my R1 :thumbsup: That is a backroute, as you might had guessed. For V2, I added a barrel to hopefully prevent that cheesy shortcut you took. I don't know if it'll be enough, but let's see!

Thanks for the compliment and feedback! :thumbsup: Also nice to see you getting back into playing some Lemmings/NL! :thumbsup:


Will take a look at the NL entries sometime in the coming days! :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2023, 05:18:05 AM »
@zanzindorf
Thanks a lot for the positive feedbacks! :thumbsup: Yes, I often try to do some interesting things with original lemmings styles. That's aestheticall pleasing in a different way from custom styles imo.
Your solution is unfortunately a slight backroute. This update will hopefully block the pixel-perfect backroute and enforce the solution I have in mind! ;)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline zanzindorf

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2023, 03:01:36 AM »
@kaywhyn, @Armani

Ooo, interesting changes. I will give these levels another try soon.

Attached are my replays for the rule 2 submissions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2023, 05:45:48 AM »
@zanzindorf

Doh! :forehead: That's quite a bad backroute that you found for my R2. I originally didn't have a swimmer hatch, and quite honestly I totally forgot that it's one when I later realized the solution I originally had in mind could be made to work with some changes to the skillset. For V2, I removed some of the wooden staircase terrain. If the level is properly patched up, it's supposed to be one of the harder R2's!

Thanks again for the compliment on the design! If the title alone isn't enough to indicate that it's supposed to be a pirate ship, then most definitely the Jolly Roger flag in the level is the complete giveaway, or at least is supposed to let others know I meant to depict a pirate ship. You seemed to have been able to tell right away that it's supposed to be a pirate ship. Nice! :thumbsup: However, as you can see, the reason why it's very goofy and comical looking is because of my extremely limited or lack of artistic abilities and admittedly I think I did a far better job of making it look like some kind of stick figure drawing :-[ I never was an artist, and still am not. My designs definitely wouldn't be able to top ones like yours, Armani's, and all the other designers on here who are quite talented artistically.

For the music, it's from an online game that I used to play all the time that my sister showed me a long time ago called Gun Bound. It's the music that plays when the game goes into "sudden death" mode, after a set pre-determined amount of moves if neither team has completely eliminated every player from the opposing team first. It's definitely one of my favorite tracks from that game :laugh: Here, I thought it quite fitting considering that there's essentially a "war" going on here with the enemy in my level :laugh:

Thanks again for the replays and showing two of my levels can still be backrouted! :thumbsup: Keep up the good work, you're doing great! :)

Oh, I pre-tested all of Icho's entries, so I can tell you that for Icho's R2 you have the intended solution :thumbsup: For his R1, keep at it. I too struggled a lot with it but in the end found an acceptable alternative to his intended, so you're not alone in struggling with it. I found it quite difficult, mostly due to the very high RR but also there being so many possibilities, most of which don't even work!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 06:05:05 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2023, 09:27:01 AM »
R1's and R2's solved. Replays attached. The one for eric's R2 is for V1, but I have confirmed it still works for V2. Only needed to play two levels each for the rulesets, since I pre-tested all of Icho's and of course I don't need to play my own levels other than for a replay proof of solvability and make sure everything is fine :laugh:

R1 Feedback

Armani's Tensegrity V2 (click to show/hide)

eric's Brick or Treat V2 (click to show/hide)


R2 Feedback

Armani's Got a New Toy V1 (click to show/hide)



Will go through the R3's later, I'm pretty much exhausted mentally completely for the day :sleep:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 07:46:23 PM »
@zanzindorf

Intended solution to my R2! Great job! :thumbsup:
For the lemming spacing thing:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also I might wait a few days until a complete pack update as backroutes and changes seem a bit frequent for now. :)

Offline zanzindorf

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2023, 12:29:54 AM »
Intended solution to my R2!

Yay! Good good.

I played through the rule 3 levels. I'm still stuck on level 3, but the others are complete.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2023, 12:09:15 PM »
@zanzindorf

That is indeed a backroute for my R3, and so you have succeeded in backrouting all 3 of my levels :laugh: I think I was aware of that start and somehow thought it wouldn't work because of other stuff players need to do for it, but nope, you showed me otherwise the level can still be cheesed! So, once more I continue to have a history of my levels never being initially 100% backroute proof from the get go when first released :( This is after all the extensive backroute testing I do on my own too!

So, for V2 I modified the steel platform. In addition, I discovered a backroute of my own before I got replays from anyone for the level, but decided to leave it in until I started getting solutions before patching that out too.

If you feel like resolving my levels, that would be awesome, but if not, no worries. There's always Armani and Icho for that :laugh: Also, Also my congratulations on solving all the contest levels except for Icho's R1 and R3. I'm sure you'll get those two in no time, though ;) Indeed, the fact you're struggling with them seems to confirm my feedback assessment I gave to Icho of them both being difficult. During pre-testing, I backrouted R3 several times, but I didn't find any version of it easy at all. It took me quite a while to find those backroutes myself! Now that it's all patched up after a few versions, R3 is probably just as difficult as his R1, possibly even a bit more. So, sorry you're playing quite a patched up R3 thanks to me :-[, but out of his entries his R3 is my favorite one. The solution is just very well-hidden and hence very difficult to see and find.

On the other hand, if the intended solutions to mine are enforced, then I would say that my R2 is probably the hardest one IMO, with R3 maybe being a close second. However, as I've shown time and time again, both Armani and Icho are constantly giving me the feedback that they thought my levels are tricky/difficult even though I myself keep thinking that they're "easy" relatively speaking to all the other entries. Since this has been the case from the very first LDC I participated in almost 3 years ago, I think it's time I drop that notion of thinking my own levels are not that hard then! :laugh:


And I have solved all the R3's, which again there were only two I needed to play. In addition, I have resolved eric's R1. I have attached my entire replay collection, as well as reattach my solutions to geoo's Lix entries, minus replays for Icho's and my levels. I will attach intended solutions to my levels closer to the end of the playing phase :) For Icho's levels, I pre-tested them all as usual, and I advise you to try and solve them on your own first! If you're still stuck, feel free to ask either of us or anyone who has managed to solve them for hints and if still no luck one of us can provide a replay. Same with my levels if you're stuck! ;)

All of these seem good and backroute proof now, but well, I'll wait for confirmation of my solutions from the authors.

@eric

Once again, this is a reminder to be sure to delete your earlier posts except for the most recent one from the update topic! You can reattach the most recent version of your R2 to it if you wish.

For R1, I have a shimmier left, but I'm guessing it's simply a more efficient solution that allowed me to spare a skill and therefore not really a backroute.

For R3, it's way too repetitive for my liking, but at least it's an anything goes kind of level, with plenty of excess skills that doesn't make it frustrating in any way. I can definitely see the striking resemblance of similar design styles with that of WillLem! ;)


@Armani

Color Coded (click to show/hide)


All rightie, as it's still very early, I will wait for a while before recording my videos of the solutions! :) Will most likely be sometime next year, so see you all in 2024 for my playthrough videos of the contest entries in the new year! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2023, 02:23:13 PM »
All the solutions to my r1 and r3 levels are intended. Well done :thumbsup:
I updated the r2 level ;)

Here're my solutions to NL r1 levels ;)
Brick or Treat (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 03:48:26 PM by Armani »
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2023, 02:44:39 PM »
And here're my solutons to NL's r2 and r3 levels as well ;)

Where No Lem Has Gone Before (click to show/hide)
Legacy Of The Waffentraeger (click to show/hide)

Bee Here For You! (click to show/hide)
Crossing Confusion Cross (click to show/hide)
Fun Teleportation Race in Space (click to show/hide)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2023, 05:07:45 PM »
Updated my Rule 1 (V5)  and Rule 2 (V2) levels

Kaywhyn's and Armani's solutions are both the intended ones for my R2 (V2)

Armani's solution is not the intended one for V4 of R1, so I added another Axeman trap near the walker pickup.

for my R3 level, Any solution that solves the level is ok. It appears I was too generous with the skills, but no changes needed. This level is an anyway type of level.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 05:27:04 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2023, 08:07:21 PM »
@Armani:

R1: Both solutions are fine! Great job!:thumbsup:
The green side solution was the one I intended and the blue side solution was found by kaywhyn during testing.

R2: Also intended! :)

R3: Yeah that's a backroute. I uploaded a V2 and hope that two steel blocks are enough to fix it.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2023, 09:33:54 PM »
@Armani

Wow, let me say that I appreciate your feedback/compliments! :thumbsup: That always brings a smile to my face, especially as I doubt my own abilities a lot and don't have that much self-confidence or self-esteem. I'm very happy that you continue to enjoy my levels.

R1 - Yea, that's a backroute, as there are some parts that aren't intended, although certainly closer to what I had in mind. For V3, I added some terrain which will hopefully point you more towards my intended solution now :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 - Even though this isn't as glaring as the backroute you showed me on Discord, this is still a pretty bad one that's quite far from my intended solution. For V3, I added OWAs to block off parts of both routes you took, as well as removed some of the wooden staircase terrain.

I'm happy to read from you that you recognized that I meant to depict a pirate ship for R2 :laugh: If it isn't already obvious from the level title, the Jolly Roger flag in the level would most likely be the complete giveaway to that, but even with that it still might not be obvious to the player in any way. The reason why it's very goofy and comical looking is due to my extremely limited to practically non-existent artistic abilities :( I was never an artist to begin with, and I still am not. Here, I admit I looked at Strato's Viking ship from Lemmings Open Air, as well as your Sniper in the Forest level to see how you both managed to make a ship, but as you can see I ended up doing it very differently from either of you :XD:

R3 - 100% intended! Great job! :thumbsup: Here, I got a bit of inspiration from two of Icho's L2 Space Lemmings United levels, one from the Tension rank, another from the War rank :) It's also my very first L2 Space level, and I'm happy you like it :laugh:


As for your solutions to Icho's levels, wow, that is so amazing that your second solution to his R1 is the solution I found during pre-testing. Great minds sure think alike! :laugh: And yes, you're correct in that it immediately reminded me of the United level "Framed with the Best Skills," except this one is far harder due to a much higher RR. It's also NL skills only just like the United level (edit: ah, not quite, all NL except floaters are provided too) :laugh:

For his R3, oops, that was the backroute I feared could work by reducing the lemming count which I wasn't able to make happen. By backrouting it the way you did, now I'm full of guilt that I was a nitpick and told Icho I thought the original amount of shimmiers when the lemming count was 12 was a bit too on the excessive side :-[ However, I don't have any reason to be, as I tried it with the 12-lemming count version and indeed your backroute with a minor adjustment still works for it. In addition, what you did with the lasers was what I came up with in an earlier version of the level in pre-testing, but I couldn't get it to work due to slider problems! :devil:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Like I told zanzindorf, Icho's R3 is my favorite one of his entries this time. You'll love the solution when you find it! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 12:04:49 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0