Illusive Paths is backrouted: given how difficult it was and how many times it took to fix this level already if we want to keep it I recommend instead using geoo's updated Lix version which looks totally different (known as Triangle inequality).

Fall guy backrouted: very simple fix

Spoiler

remove the bomber

; original replay should work.

and with that I'm finished watching Kaywhyn's playthrough.

Quote from: Proxima on May 13, 2026, 02:36:51 PMIt's not possible to save all on that level. But I don't consider it a major spoiler that both exits are used; that still doesn't tell you how to get enough lemmings there.

Also, I am very strongly against giving one level a title taken from another level, even if it's one we are not using. Mobius did a lot of this in the past and it has caused a lot of confusion that is now adding to the workload. Let's learn from this mistake and not repeat it.

I agree; too many names got changed, and some in poor choice, in other cases mistakes were made and it added a LOT of unnecessary confusion. Part of this was necessary of course because there were a number of levels with the same exact (or very similar titleS), or some that were identical to titles from the main game. I'm slowly trying to correct all the mistakes.
Let's just keep this level as is then.

anyways, here is a fix for Tier Drops which kaywhyn backrouted. Original replay should work,.

also; Proxima you should take a look here: Kaywhyn backrouted Hotel in Hell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa-dJ6bYrK0&list=PLbp2m4KlFpJu3-uIIffWI9Kin5fNCa-Y1&index=28

this might have a very simple fix. There's no fire under the first pillar like in the original.

this is a possible fix for Jumble Sale; but I'm not very confident that it fixes it. This backroute was present from previous versions and I left it in because it's not major but does skip a key part of the solution.

Spoiler

backroute: instead of letting the worker fall and use the miner to make a hole in the left side of the terrain just build into it then mine again.

Backroute fix for the level Catch-22

So I doubt if anyone agrees with me on this but I think my own consensus on the matter of which levels to include or not is as follows:
these are attempts to make some logical consistency to the rules;

-levels present in small packs such as Ben Bryant's, MazuLems, and Dodo's cachapacks; I think these should be allowed.
-levels present in large packs such as InsaneSteve's, GeoffLems, etc, shouldn't be included because: they are large packs containing many great levels. This project is a large pack the purpose of which is to consolidate levels not already in a large pack; into a large pack.
I too would love to include some levels by Clam or ISteve that used to be in the pack but it seems kinda wrong to do so, if we do then why not include dozens of other levels; such as those by Geofflems or DecietLems or PimoLem etc? those of which are also quite old.

A counterpoint I see being raised is: Clam and ISteve didn't actually consolidate their packs back then; that was done by myself and Wafflem more recently. (unless you count Lix, in which case, ISteve's levels are fair game but not Clam as he did make a large pack for Lix) Clam even specifically made his 5th pack for a project of this nature.

But I think the point still stands about people not wanting to play repeated levels and the pack being too large already, I think if ultimately you decide to include any of these from the larger packs they should at least be limited to a very small amount.

Also as just a side point; don't count on Ben Bryant's pack being released anytime soon; I kind of lost interest in putting it together atm. I needed a bit of a break from it.

fix for That Freezing Feeling which removes the time limit (and removes two builders which my replay doesn't require). Might require some testing to see if there are still backroutes.

[also changed Eymerich's name to Ellischant which we should probably do to all their levels]

edit:

also fixed Deadly Detour which Kaywhyn backrouted. Original replay should still work.

"The Necromancer" is backrouted pretty bad and I doubt it can be fixed easily if at all. It might be easier to remove it.

backroute fix for Snowhere. Original replay should still work.

Made a slight change to Lemming sold separately to fix Kaywhyn's backroute, which uses some tricky timing to get a lemming to sneak past a blocker. This saves the basher. From the layout of the level, imo it's pretty clear (once you figure it out) what the intended is here.

Could this win the award for the least visually noticeable backroute fix ever?

tangent comment: Grentiie's levelpack has lots of good ones. We should take a closer look to see if there's anymore we might want to use, if we need more.

I attached the fixes and my solutions (my assumed intended solutions)

Eigth Little Problems:
Fixed what was supposed to be a deadly fall height. I don't think one requires an explination.
Comments: this one might be better for the first rank if we keep it.

Cry for me: I'll let Proxima handle this one.

Keep it simple:
backroute:

Spoiler

You can send workers into middle area to do everything.

Spoiler

My solution forces you to use all the climbers. But this still doesn't use all the skills and it saves more than necessary. Keep in mind; this is an assumed intended solution. But I think its more interesting than the backroute.

Delimiter:
backroute:

Spoiler

with good timing you can simply bash and build before the crowd gets to the worker. I made the gap larger (requiring 4 builders) and increased lemming count as well.

-reminder to change "minimac"'s name to "Minim"
and Eymerich's name to Ellischant

-Perhaps we should alter the title of "we go separate ways" [originally Dangerzone] as it might spoil the solution for some.

<in replay to the comments on the google doc> :: also found here :: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gSs0lsAdHntkJ8ffSTbwg2yBkmqZFFTNGA07KD9LjEI/edit?gid=874540697#gid=874540697

I honestly agree with most of the decisions here and right now I'm leaning toward; "if we want more levels, bring old ones back/use them from the big packs (A notable example I'd propose is "Rhapsody" by ISteve. It's a great level on its own and fits with the harder "repeat" Rhapsody in Blue).
atm, I'm still on the fence about this. I'll give it more thought and review the pack.



notable disagreements/comments: (for now)

Crossing Paths: I agree to move it later but I'm as surprised as I was early on that so many people struggle with this level. Kaywhyn resorted to using a very advanced trick that is *not at all necessary* to solve it. If you look at my replay its actually quite simple...

10 is a magic number - this one looks simple but requires more than a little thought. I found it quite a challenge actually for it's placement and I think it might ought to be placed later.

Crossing Paths part 2 [likely be made part 1?] - imo this is one of Minim's best levels, its not difficult but fairly unique.

Stop look and listen [I don't remember finding this one too fiddly and I don't find multitasking a bad thing... (necessarily)]. But if it is fiddly it could probably be fixed?

Wing It: I also really like this one; maybe can be ranked lower a bit tho?

Ups and downs - I like these compact but non-trivial levels and this one has at least a few solutions requiring some mildly out of the box thinking.

Spoiler

making a faller a bomber isn't something newbies find obvious

There is also t3tesla's level original called "ice ice lemming" which is supposed to be a cheesy level

Spoiler

direct drop

but is solvable by normal means, and isn't even that precise on DOS, not a bad level imo, this could potentially replace it?

Let's Split - is it the multitasking you don't like? Again, I enjoy the unique challenge this level presents and it's not too difficult imo (good for an earlier rank placement)

A small problem: same comments about multitasking. I know it's builder heavy but it isn't a typical "L1 style long walk builderfest". Every level that's builder heavy (or involves multitasking) isn't necessarily bad imo. This one presents a bit of a unique (not super difficult) of splatform stacking/building challenges that isn't just "simply build over this pit). EDIT: This doesn't actually require any multitasking or timing what so ever. I actually forgot this re-watching my replay and I was reminded of some of Clam's amazing builder levels. (which of course if we ultimately decide to include levels by him there are several good candidates there as well)
I will add however; to make the final assignments to free the crowds less annoying; make the starting pits shorter to require fewer builders by adding steel there. I feel like I did this already or wanted to do this in 2022, not sure why its not already done.

EDIT: LIFE IN THE THIRD DIMENSION
-artistically unique and has an interesting solution as well, for an early game levle.

I've been re-watching Kaywhyn's LP of the version 4 of the pack and noting backroutes and other issues. These are just notes so far and have not been tested.

Picnic:

Probably not going to say much as most of these are <do anything you want> levels.

Devious:

11 - Cry for me - make  central pillar taller + add one way wall facing left

14 - eight little problems - this level has an embarrassing mistake. Can't believe this wasn't caught this sooner. I've edited it myself just now but I'll have to test later. The upper right most exit should not walk freely to the exit; that should be a splat fall.

17 - Keep it simple - make horizontal piece over gap longer so building from left isn't possible

21 - Delimiter - make gap larger, increase builder by 1


Not much else yet: its time consuming and my time is limited these days sadly.

While I agree it's nice to have a selection of various styles all around, I would caution against making this a major concern. I did for a while and I think the pack overall suffered because I kept this in mind. There's simply way more quality levels of certain styles (marble and pillar for example) than others and trying to shoehorn in levels of other types may have hurt the overall quality.

I'd agree Pipe Dream is a better level than the "gotta save em all". This is a good level for very early on and very a pack that's intended to be *very* beginner friendly, which I'm not sure is the best fit for this pack? But if so, then it fits.
I can give more feedback later when I have time.

Oh BTW; did you guys already figure out which levels are going into which pack; is it based on age?

This is also how I (sort of) made easier repeat levels; I looked at levels from the pack that had interesting layouts which would still be interesting and not trivial when adding X skills to them. [this was easier said than done, but still managed to find more than a few]

Some of the original levels (The Fearsome Foursome is a good example of this); was in my folder of levels I looked at to include in the pack in the first place; only because I misread the skillset. The original level was described by Yawg as literally "this is payback for all the awful levels I've played through"; suffice to say, I never actually considered adding the original.

Snowy Caves isn't a ghost repeat; that's a repeat of "That Freezing Feeling" (presently in the Pain rank, which I forget why, it initially was ranked much lower).
Proxima and I talked about one of Ellischant's levels in discord; the miner/hell level (Harder, Better, Miner, Stronger) and Aperture science; but this kind of went for all of his levels; In testing I found multiple solutions for many of them but still felt them fun and worth including. Some had minor fixes but most of them were difficult to make any changes to. That freezing feeling has ice blowers that aren't present in the easy version; this was supposed to removed a backroute.

Anyways; here's some more quick feedback on my personal favorites and least favorites in the first rank.

Keepers
Little Miner Puzzle(s),
Lemtris (maybe not first rank worthy; depending on how the rest of the pack goes)
Access Denied
Eeny Meeny Miny
Crossing the Chasm
Most of Dragon's Lover's levels in this rank (they all have a good early first rank placement I felt, except maybe a few like Through Fire and Flames, which some said isn't that easy.
Lem Dunk

I also think (if Proxima is okay with it) we should keep levels like Minesweeper Lemmings (or the more difficult repeat if not both) if possible. This genuinely was always one of my favorites and the difficult version took me a long time to solve.


for removal:
I agree Liquidizer is not a good one. This is one of those where I assumed I just suck at the game and other people would have an easier time with it.

Magnetic Area:
this level is pretty similar to that Genesis level of a similar style but less interesting.

other considerations:
I personally find 10 is a magic number a more difficult level than first rank. It's not complicated but requires more thought then the average easy first rank level and multitasking.

Crystal Caves (the more difficult version): I was always on the fence with this level as when getting near the end I found the difficulties more frustrating then fun to puzzle out but the easier version was fun.

Blood Furnace:
If decoration was added to spruce it up I think this level would be more appealing. Might work as a [late] first rank level even, it has a variety of solutions.