Let's chill out a little bit with all the various topics. It's really good to see that you're continuing to develop your skills in game development - and I want to say, you should not be too disheartened if not all your projects go anywhere. If you spend a week trying things out for a project, then abandon it, but learnt some new things while working on it - that time wasn't wasted; it became an important part of the path to becoming able to make advanced, full-blown, high quality projects. I know for sure that when I was learning, I half-made a LOT of abandoned trash... but in the process of making that trash, I learnt many skills that I use to this very day. Not to mention, I had fun doing it at the time.

I'm closing this topic - but that's not meant to be discouragement on your project itself, nor the idea of customizable lemmings or including other lemmings if people choose to offer some. All I'm wanting you to take away from this topic closing is - there's no need for several different topics for every idea related to your project; you can post these ideas in the project's main topic. You might not get much attention at first, especially with the record of vague ideas and abandoned projects, but if over time you can prove that this one is different and it's going somewhere, and you're putting genuine effort into it and trying to make it good (as opposed to simply "anything that sort-of works is good enough"), you'll no doubt get more people interested. There are numerous cases out there in various fan communities of people who've started off like how you have, with many over-ambitious ideas and abandoned projects, who have eventually gone on to create genuinely great works.

You're going to run into frustrations no matter what engine you use. As I mentioned:

Quote from: namida on December 06, 2025, 06:44:27 AMAs long as you understand that it will take effort, it will be hard work at times (but there'll be a lot of fun seeing your work come to life, too), and it will be a long time before any major project gets to the point where you can even see, let alone really share, any results - you can get there.

This applies no matter what engine, programming language, or other tool you use. Indeed, this applies to creative (and other) projects of almost any kind, not just game design. There are only two ways to get what you want in terms of creative products without putting in a significant amount of effort, and both of them make it much harder to get exactly what you want, and also take away a significant extent of your ability to truly call it your creation (whether that matters depends if your goal is "I want this to exist", versus "I want to make this") - those two ways being either "pay someone else to do it", or "generate it with AI".

This is a bit ambitious, but it's a lot more realistic of a project than a full-blown OS.

I hope you understand that it will take time and effort to actually make this - but there are many users on these forums who wanted to make something, didn't really know what they were doing, put in the effort to learn, and eventually made something. As long as you understand that it will take effort, it will be hard work at times (but there'll be a lot of fun seeing your work come to life, too), and it will be a long time before any major project gets to the point where you can even see, let alone really share, any results - you can get there. If you need some inspiration, take a look at WillLem - he didn't know the first thing about programming when he joined here, nowdays he's capable of coding in multiple languages and producing very good results.

GameMaker is definitely a significant step up from Scratch and similar sites. While arguably more "basic" than programming languages, GameMaker is powerful enough that many good games you can buy on Steam etc (and even sometimes, consoles) are made in it. If you're finding that GameMaker works well for you, I very much encourage you to stick with it and continue learning and improving your skills in it. I believe that for myself, a similar app - Click & Create - was instrumental in my abilities getting to where they are now, even though it was relatively "simplified".

Quote from: Guigui on November 30, 2025, 06:25:37 PMMaybe the green checks issue could happen if the kill occurs when the game is accessing userdata.nxsv for instance ? I could not reproduce it though, no matter when I try to manually kill NeoLemmix.exe, my green checks survive.

Are the green checks disappearing altogether, or turning orange?

If they're disappearing altogether: That suggests the userdata.nxsv file is either being corrupted, or outright erased (or potentially, not loaded properly).
Whereas if they're turning orange: That suggests NL thinks the level files have been modified since you solved them.

Can you change your script to attempt to cleanly close NL? Might be worth a try at least.

Quote from: WillLem on November 30, 2025, 04:10:18 AMIn theory, if we wanted to go down this route, could I run a server from a Raspberry Pi 5 just for hosting the necessary files? I have one that I've not really been using much, and it would be fun to learn about file hosting, especially if it might help to make engine updates much easier for everyone.

You probably could, but hosting it on your own home internet connection is not the best idea. Firstly - in order for people to be able to access it, you need to at least slightly open up your network. If you aren't careful, this can create major security risks. Secondly - you may not have a static IP address, and/or may have a shared IP address. The former makes this setup difficult, while the latter makes it impossible. Thirdly - is your internet connection (and where applicable, power) fast enough, reliable enough, and always-on enough for the job?

The better way to go would be to get a paid plan from a cheap hosting provider. You definitely want one that supports at least PHP (and probably offers a MySQL database too - you might not need it right away, but you likely will want one eventually if you do much with the web hosting). If you want to get a bit more in-depth and more DIY-y, look into a VPS provider.

Where the Pi could come in handy for this is as a development / testing environment. Install a web server on that and use that for development and testing; while opening up a device like this on your home network to the wider internet can quickly get risky, doing so simply between two of your own devices is pretty safe. As a bonus - if you can manage to set this up as such, you most likely will have learnt (at least most of) the skills you need to be able to use a VPS rather than a managed host.

I'd suggest using Debian or Ubuntu (or a fork thereof) as your OS, preferably a version with no "desktop environment" (ie: your Pi won't have a GUI like Windows; if you attach it to a screen, you'll just see a DOS-like prompt. This has two benefits - firstly, that's going to be far more in line with how using a VPS will be; and secondly, far less overhead being used for the GUI, meaning all the device's power can be used for the web server and other servers you might choose to run on it). I'd actually advise - set up a "LAMP" setup first and play around with it a bit; this is for the sake of the understanding it'll give you of the underlying workings. Then when you're comfortable with that, nuke the whole thing (server-wise; you can definitely backup and keep any sites you were working on - and if you don't want to erase the working server just in case, it's a Pi, just get a second microSD), and this time, look into VirtualMin and install that; VirtualMin makes it much more convenient to do a lot of management tasks. For reference: The Lemmings Forums server is a VirtualMin setup (on a DigitalOcean VPS, but as mentioned, I'm planning to move it... it's just a matter of actually picking one, and getting it done).

EDIT: I should clarify that "no GUI on the Pi itself" doesn't mean you're stuck with command line for every web development task you do. You'll use the command line a lot while initially configuring the server (especially the non-VirtualMin one), and might need to occasionally pop out the command line after that (probably remotely via an SSH connection, rather than physically using a keyboard and screen attached to the Pi), but you're mostly going to be working with GUI tools - you're just going to be using those GUI tools on your PC, not on the Pi itself, then uploading your work to the Pi (or, the web server / VPS, once your site is ready to go live).

Quote from: WillLem on November 29, 2025, 04:10:38 PMEven more ideally, engine updates would be handled via online downloads as well. The only issue with this is that players like to modify the gfx in their own copies, and there may be times when it would be necessary for a graphic to be updated, thus overwriting the user's copy. We'd need some way of detecting whether the target graphic is a mod. But anyways, that's for another topic.

One thought that comes to mind is having a "user-gfx" folder, with the same structure. If a file is present in that folder (or the appropriate subfolder) it's used; if not, the default one is used. This is basically the same sort of setup currently used for falling back to low-res graphics in styles if no high-res graphic is available (except of course, no upscaling is necessary in this case, just loading a different file).

This would be viable for NLCE too, without breaking drop-in compatibility.

That does kinda remind me, I thought Jelly Belly was just a fake in-universe brand for L3D when I first played. So when I actually saw them in a store several years later, I had to buy a pack. Weren't even really anything special tbh.

Quote from: Simon on November 26, 2025, 09:40:50 PMA level might be a directory. It should contain the level proper, the intended/accepted solutions that should pass during mass replay verification, and backroute replays that should fail.

I'm not sure how useful the backroute replays would be in a finished level (they could be very useful for a WIP level where the backroute in question has not yet been fixed, and it's there to remind the author what they need to fix), especially without some kind of "auto replay repair" mechanism. Otherwise, the fail could simply be that a lemming is not quite in the right place due to some minor unrelated change, and that if the assignment was tweaked back to the correct position, the replay would pass again. It could perhaps be useful as a collection for a human to verify (but then, they'd need a way to see the backroute work on a vulnerable version of the level, otherwise they might not know exactly what they're trying to fix), a lot of effort though.

Level-as-directory in general seems like an interesting idea. Another advantage would be that "vgaspec" levels could have their unique terrain pieces as part of the level, rather than needing an (author)_special style. Disadvantage would be a bit more hassle when creating / organising packs by hand, as well as the need to ZIP them when sharing - although this could be avoided by still having a core NXLV or similar file that can also be used on its own, assuming no level-specific pieces like the vgaspec idea are needed for the level in question - perhaps by the engine having an "import" folder you drop the level into, and it moves it to an appropriate place in the tree structure with a directory of its own. Another possibility could be to work similar to how styles associate extra files with pieces - the main level file is titled, say "Example.nlxv", and then any files associated with it are "Example_Terrain.png", "Example_Replay1.nxrp", etc; keeping each level in its own folder then becomes a matter of convention (and engine support for a folder that contains a single level, rather than being a rank / pack) rather than obligation, and the NXLV remains useful on its own if no other files are needed. Downside to that would be potential issues arising if one level's filename starts with the same thing as another's full name, eg, if you have "Example.nxlv" and "Example_(Part_II).nxlv" in the same folder, whether the engine might think that "Example_(Part_II)_Solution1.nxrp" is a replay called "(Part_II)_Solution" for "Example". Far, far too late for NL / NLCE at this point (SLX could consider it), but that's a very good idea for any future engines / overhauls.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it (even if it's not what I'd do myself) if an author never chooses to release their replay files, let alone just delays them a bit after the release of the pack (which I did do with my own packs) - but they personally should still have them, and be able to run a mass replay check and confirm every level is solvable.

Split from this topic: Can CE and NL 12.14 run from the same directory?

---

Quote from: WillLem on November 11, 2025, 01:19:41 AM

Quote from: Guigui on November 10, 2025, 11:41:44 AMBut the Play menu gives a single "Invalid pointer operation" error. Then the program closes by itself.

This is most likely due to the Sleeper sprite, which is present in CE but not in NL.

The easiest fix is to copy the default style from CE\styles to NL\styles. All other sprites are identical, only the Sleeper has been added. When prompted, choose Merge or Replace.

That should do the trick. Let me know if it doesn't.

NOTE: Simon's suggestion of making symlinks is usually done using a .bat file or similar. It's a decent idea for keeping the directories clean, and may come in handy later. We could also add an instruction to automatically copy the default style across as well.

@namida: If the above fix works, would you be happy to include the Sleeper sprite in the default NL style download? It shouldn't affect NL users at all, and would prevent CE users from running into this problem in the future. Please note that there are no plans to add any more sprites (and there are unlikely to ever be), so this should be the only update necessary.

My initial thought was yes, but then I realised: This would just move the issue from the default style, to any style with custom ones. I would also note that NL:CE should really remain compatible with any data files that work with 12.14; if the absence of a Sleeper sprite breaks compatibility, it isn't really meeting this standard.

I think the solution here needs to come from NL:CE's side. Some possible options:
1. NLCE gracefully handles the absence of a sleeper sprite. Perhaps another, non-custom sprite (or a non-sprite visual effect like recoloration or flickering) could be used as a fallback, or alternatively, the default sleeper sprite could be embedded in the EXE and used as a fallback in such a case.
2. Provide a "patch" download intended to convert (or "dual-boot") an existing NL install into an NL:CE install, that includes things like the Sleeper sprite.

On further investigation, applying option #2 seems very simple indeed - so I've gone ahead and done that for now.

At this point in time, if I've understood the options and configured everything correctly, spam checking should now apply to registrations, as well as posts from users who have not yet made 5 approved posts. Once you've hit 5 posts, your posts should just go through without being checked (as it's probably a safe assumption - and we can change the settings if this turns out wrong - that if your first 5 posts either were approved by CleanTalk, or flagged but then approved by a moderator, you're probably not a spambot).

There has been a few cases of CleanTalk causing problems for legitimate users of the site - two users have reported their legitimate posts being outright blocked (in one case this was due to a VPN, the other one has no explanation whatsoever), and we've also had a few cases where posts were flagged for moderator approval despite having no need to be (I'm a bit less concerned about that last part - I consider that to be a tolerable side effect, it's the outright blocking that concerns me).

I raised a few potential solutions on the staff board, and am now bringing them into public discussion.

Option 1 - Keep as-is, accept it will cause problems sometimes
Self-explanatory. I really don't like this option - aside from that it's going to frustrate users who have done nothing wrong, another concern is that new users may be attempting to sign up, running into problems, and we never know because they never reach out to us, so they just give up and don't join.

Option 2 - Use CleanTalk with altered settings / customizations
The main ideas here are (a) disable the filter that stops suspected spambots from even accessing the site (even to read it), and (b) only apply the spam check to posts from new users (with the "what counts as a new user" being a to-be-discussed point). I was a bit hesitant about this due to the amount of work that would be involved, but it actually looks like the plugin has at least rudimentary features to help with this. The problem with this approach is that it still doesn't really help much with users who don't even manage to register (if they do manage to register and attempt but their posts get outright blocked, I'll at least see them in the CleanTalk admin panel - but a blocked registration attempt is literally impossible to distinguish spam attempts from legitimate ones, especially at a quick glance).

Option 3 - Mod/admin approval of all registrations and posts from new users
The idea for this one is - get rid of CleanTalk, and rely on human approval for new users. Admin approval would be needed for new registrations, and mod or admin approval would be needed for their first few posts. The biggest problem here is how to handle a case of "spambot makes account, never posts, just spams via PM" (while also being mindful of that there are several legitimate users who don't ever post publicly, but do communicate with other users via PM). Maybe this isn't a big enough concern to worry about right now - I haven't received any reports of PM spam so far.

Option 4 - Revert to old setup, deal with spam as it happens
And the last option is simply to go back to minimal anti-spam measures (just security questions etc - not much point in CAPTCHA these days, it's trivial for AI to defeat it), and accept that spam attacks will happen once in a while, and that they're annoying but not really the end of the world - users here should be savvy enough to identify and disregard them, so the issue is yeah, really just that they're annoying.

I was initially favoring option #3, but after seeing that the CleanTalk plugin already has some features that might help get a good enough setup of option #2, I'm leaning more towards that. Discussion of this matter on the Staff Board also, where other staff did respond, was leaning towards preferring option 2. As an interim measure I've already implemented option #2 part (a) (disabling the filter that blocks the site entirely for suspected spambots) and will see what difference that makes, if any.

And for any legitimate users trying to sign up who are encountering issues - please, reach out to us. You can contact us on the Lemmings Forums Discord, or on the #lix IRC channel on QuakeNet.

https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=download_list&program=42

Lemmix EXEs (and more importantly their source code) for the official games can be found here. The 2P levels should be included in the "Extra Levels" pack. Download the source code, look in the data folders for the DAT files that contain the levels in question, use the Lemmix Editor or the DAT packer tool to extract them as LVL files.

I'm pretty sure the LVL files used here for other versions are byte-for-byte identical, aside from centering the narrower Genesis levels and adapting the graphic set numbering to allow including Orig + Ohno + Xmas styles all in a single pack.

So, I had a further thought: Going for a server in Europe would no doubt mean needing to ensure full compliance with many of Europe's well-intentioned but overly-pedantic internet laws, which is not really ideal for a small site where my involvement these days is mostly "keep it online and updated". It's not ideal if the site ends up suspended because I wasn't quick enough to fix the exact wording of some disclaimer or whatever.

With that in mind, I've been giving more thought to providers based in NZ, Australia and Canada. At this point the hosts I'm primarily considering are LunaNode (Canada), easyVPS (Canada), Xenyth (Canada), Voyager (NZ) and Binary Lane (Australia). I do need to look into them a bit more before I make any final choice, but based on location, very quick preliminary research, and pricing, that's my initial shortlist.

Quote from: bezzie616 on October 13, 2025, 08:48:50 PMHow do you make music work with this? Or has it not being implemented (yet)? I ripped the red book audio of the original 3D PC release but no matter where I place the folder, (or any other rip of Lemmings music. It won't play music.

Did you use one of the releases in this topic? If so - they were older versions while Loap was in development.

Download V1.0.0.0 from the release topic (from the first post; it's been updated every time there's a new release): https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5907.0

Older releases had the music as a seperate download so that they didn't have to be redownloaded with every update (as they were the majority of the file size), but because further updates are unlikely at this point, I decided it was simpler to put everything in one download.