To just make some sort of lemmings sequel is an achievement on its own

Yes, that is true. I now feel bad for saying "you have to [...] to make it perfect." Didn't want to sound demanding - it was just that this topic is called "The Perfect Blend", heh.

In my case, almost universally, one of the project goals is to create a game that everyone can enjoy.

That is good. A game just feels right even for a veteran if it appeals to everyone. I encourage you to keep this idea for any future development. The only thing to watch out for is to not overload the game with features. This can be hard if you'd like to include something from every game, all the brainstorming in this thread would have to be properly filtered first.

I just noticed that Simon has already gotten into one of those engines for a sequel that he has been making. Is it sort of like what Ive been describing?

For L++, I use Allegro and Enet. Allegro is a game library for C(++), it is pretty low-level. It offers routines for graphics, input, timers, sound, etc., but not any physics. Allegro lets one do enough low-level stuff to learn quite a lot about game programming while still being platform independent. An alternative to Allegro would be SDL.

Enet is a simple networking library. It's a bit more comfortable than working with sockets directly, but my client/server logic looks similar to what one would write with bare sockets. So I've again learned something while using it. :-)

I strongly believe in building new projects from the group up from scratch. Using some arbitrary software package or even code from previous projects promotes laziness more than good practice.

This is correct up to a certain level. The most low-level code that still produces graphics will probably be platform specific. I think it's okay to abstract this away a bit.

On the other hand, I wouldn't ever write a Lemmings clone in Gamemaker. It's point-and-click development that does lots of things for you and has a scripting language for the strange stuff. Many developing decisions aren't made by the creator, the tool does it for him. The resulting games won't run on Linux, not even under Wine, and I think older versions' scripting code won't work with newer Gamemaker versions. I have a friend who could rant about this evil tool every day. ;-)

-- Simon

Hi!

Quote from: Clam Spammer

Fast forward and replay features are huge for reducing frustration. EricLang's level editing and playtesting program, Lemmix, also inclided frameskip and savestates, which might be worth considering.

In addition to adjustable release rate, these are good ideas. I can't see save states being a part of the main product, though.

In my opinion, a good game is always a good tool as well. Providing savestates would increase the user efficiency of trying new ideas in a level. I'd opt for anything that helps! (in singleplayer at least, heh. :-D)

I should probably also have mentioned that I would like to make a multiplayer option in some way.

If you're planning competetive multiplayer, I think I've got some interesting ideas to share. While writing L++, which has networked multiplayer, there were lots of unexpected design corrections.

Although I use identical game mechanics for singleplayer and multiplayer, a multiplayer level calls for a very different skillset. The Amiga/SNES two-player mode used the regular skillset of Climber, Floater, ..., Digger. This is ideal for the singleplayer mode, however:


With more direct control, not every single level has to be a huge bunch of terrain, and we get a better chance to recover from other players' sabotage attempts. Thus, I implemented some skills from L2. As you are keen to improve upon what's already there in L1, such a concept might fit to your game as well!

Exploder with knockback - This is the main way to dislodge enemy blockers, at the expense of an own lemming. One can even use it to punish players who hoard all their lemmings directly under the entrance hatch, which could be very boring. Sneak a few lemmings in, BOOM, everyone's flying all over the place. :-D

Before I included this Exploder, we had to limit the blocker skill strictly. Blockers placed on steel were absolutely permanent, and if the goals weren't set on steel, you could simply dig away all the gound under enemy goals. Remember, removing terrain is easier and faster than re-building it. For this reason, the original Amiga/SNES levels often didn't feature blockers at all, which limits the level terrain possibilities harshly. For almost every terrain, blockers are needed to control lemming flow. But the stronger they are, the better of a strategy hoarding/trailblazing (using a single hero) becomes. Thus, this exploder regulates it again, which is what we want.

Walker skill - This works exactly as in L3: It reverts workers back to walkers, including blockers, or turns walkers around. This is the more direct lemming control mentioned above. It's pretty important if you need fast and accurate control of a few certain lemmings, which is common in multiplayer.

Jumper skill - This allows to extract a single lemming from a well-hoarded crowd, and generally makes it easier to get around. However, if we were going to include the Jumper in every multiplayer map, along with walker, blocker, knockback exploder, a lot of the eight possible skill panels are already full. :-) The map creator must be able to choose what skills to give, like for singleplayer levels.

More building skills - This should remedy the fact that it's easier to destroy terrain than to build up to new places. Platformer and especially Roper seem like ideal additions to a multiplayer game.

Level design - Every player wants to make a path from his hatch(es) to his goal. Thus, for maximum fun, have the players' paths cross each other - early, and often. Of course, give enough space and freedom to allow different strategies, but always make them interfere with each other by having crossed paths!

Revolution's connecting edges made things a lot more interesting, though I'm not sure there's any good way to present that with a flat display...

For multiplayer, this is very important because it balances the starting positions.

I don't know how to implement it the best way. I myself just scroll freely over the edges and let the stuff from the other side scroll into view, so that one can't notice any seam. Of course, this feels odd at first if the level size is one screen, but you can scroll freely in all four directions. :-D

-- Simon

Putting Lemmings on the PSP seemed like a logical move. A full-price puzzle game for the PC is pretty difficult to push into the market nowerdays, I think. You might find real puzzler gems in the bargain bin of a computer store, but that's often scratchware done by smaller companies.

It's not that likely, but if Sony is going to release another big Lemmings game on the PC, I hope they don't alter too much. I like L2 very much, but even I would be sceptical about tons of new skills or game mechanic twists these days. ;-)

I don't follow the Lemmix/Lemmini community that well - I did play ccexplore's awesome port of the Genesis levels, but that's it been for me until now, in spite of several clever level designers out here. In my opinion, however, such community-driven games are the very best way to keep Lemmings alive at its core. :-)

-- Simon

Heh, got so bored that you actually filled the whole piece of paper? Awesome! :-D

I once drew the attached card for a game of 1000 Blank White Cards. It's a parody on Magic the Gathering where there are blank cards in the pile among older, already drawn cards. If you get a blank one, you can draw anything on it during game play and use it later. Google or Wikipedia know more. ;-)

The German text on the card translates to: "Well, almost, right? - The card you're playing will only count as... ALMOST beging played... - Play this card anytime!" Thus, it makes a player discard his card during his turn instead of playing it from his hand.

-- Simon

Yep, L++ is written with Allegro, which is cross-platform. I got it to compile on my account in the math department and tested it with a bunch of friends in the Linux-only computer pool. :-D

Unfortunately, I have to study for some exams this month. If I have the time in August, I'm going to finish some yet half-done things and build a small webpage with downloads.

-- Simon

I forgot about non-mouse control. Highlighting might make life easier on a PDA, even if there's directional selection. I'm sorry I can't judge this as well as you, I've never played a game on a PDA... but I tried SNES Lemmings, where highlighting seemed even more useful. It's a nice usability feature, even if it costs a lot of extra code.

If you don't want to draw a lot of extra stuff, then you could color the lemmings with permanent abilities different from everyone else. L2 did that, I wonder why they dropped this simple idea later!

-- Simon

Thanks for the ideas! I really couldn't come up with anything short, and the Stunner is my instant favorite.

The frames for the flyer/slipper were captured from the flying lemming. And yes, it might actually be the same as the ice slipper... I've just checked. The slipper's animation (attachment) is bit different.

L2 has always seemed a bit experimental, a lot of its ideas have never appeared in the later games again. Some should have, think of the Laser Blaster. :-)

-- Simon