Author Topic: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)  (Read 3947 times)

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Offline mobius

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2024, 07:10:01 PM »
Yes, the Propelling lem will always arrive at the top of a successfully created tunnel.

The question now seems to be: what about when the tunnel isn't finished due to the lem hitting a steel block, or the top of the level (i.e. the situations in this image that result in transition to "faller")? Should the lem fall (potentially fatal), or propel safely back down?

I'm currently about 50/50 on it, either would be fine code-side.

My gut expecation would be to fall
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Offline WillLem

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2024, 08:38:11 PM »
My point wasnt about how close to L2 it is, rather the fact that the skill could and likely would be used for a secondary purpose thats completely not terrain removal. It seems a bit inconsistent to me but those are just my two cents.

This is one of those "depends on the layout of the level" arguments. Any skill can be used for its non-primary purpose, and in fact many skills are used that way in order to create difficulty and more interesting interactions (e.g. using a Builder to turn a lemming, using a Basher to cancel a Builder) - the point being that it depends on the level designer, not the skill itself.

With that said, I agree that skills should have a single basic action and not do multiple things, ideally. We all seem to agree, though, that the Propeller should arrive at the top of the tunnel. So, unless we arbitrarily nerf it by having it always fall, it will have the secondary benefit of height gain. Is this acceptable?

Offline Simon

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2024, 10:55:36 PM »
lem hitting a steel block
fall (potentially fatal), or propel safely back down?

You can copy what the jumper does: Allow a queued shimmier assignment to execute here, otherwise fall. Then your two upwards-flying skills (propeller and jumper) are consistent with each other.

Feeling: NL/SLX allow climbers to jump off walls, swimmers to jump out of water, ..., then why not propellers to shimmy, too.

Yes, the skills should be about one thing and have few rules (as WillLem says), yet be able to play roles of swiss army knifes (as mobius says). The potential falling (with or without allowed shimmier assignment) has its uses, too: Combine with floater, combine with a higher lemming splatforming underneath in the meantime, ...

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« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 11:27:30 PM by Simon »

Offline mobius

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2024, 01:19:12 AM »
Like my previous post this is just a gut feeling without having done any play testing what-so-ever so my opinion may very well change;;;; but I feel either arriving at the top or falling makes much more sense then 'safely propelloring back down'. Arriving at the top and walking on, on it's own doesn't stand out to me as being very weird (not as much as 'flying up to a far away terrain to propeller' but I'm already used to plenty of weird mechanics in vanilla lemmings so...:XD:
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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2024, 09:17:20 AM »
I agree with mobius: Most skills get cancelled when they hit terrain they can't affect; This is the logic the first level of Lemmings World Tour tries to teach:
- a destructive skill stops and turns around when it hits steel
- a constructive skill stops and turns aroudn when it builds into terrain

If a Propeller / Twister hits his head on steel, the skill should get cancelled. Thus, even if "propelling down safely" were a feature of the skill, it would no longer work here, because the skill would already have been cancelled by hitting steel, and thus, the lemming would turn into a regular Faller anyway.
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