Author Topic: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)  (Read 2968 times)

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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2023, 05:39:56 AM »
Yes, I'm also mainly here for the upward digging - so we should go with whatever fits that action best.

Where would the propeller sit? On the lemming's head, like with Mario? That to me would suggest a mere movement skill that allows the lemming to fly, but not necessarily to "drill upwards".

Or would it be a tool in the lemming's hands that drills into the ceiling and also pulls the lemming along with itself? In that case, "Driller" might be a more appropriate term than "Propeller" (I think Driller is also one of the potential skill names we once discussed for this skill idea in NeoLemmix).
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2023, 03:52:04 PM »
One other possible suggestion.

There's an old game called "Oil's Well" where you basically dig wells and try not to hit moving creatures with your drill.

In this game the player stops and has a drill that extends upward. Only the drill graphic moves upward, then after it cuts all the way through the terrain piece it very quickly returns to the player so he can proceed.

This should be easier to animate, and I think a "Driller" makes alot of sense for a vertical digger-type. Instead of the lemming moving up and back down in a timely manner you only have to account for the drill-bit zipping up and down. The lemming could even be a single frame like the laserer.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 07:46:04 PM by jkapp76 »
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2023, 08:51:37 PM »
Instead of the lemming moving up and back down in a timely manner you only have to account for the drill-bit zipping up and down

This is a brilliant idea. If we go with "Driller", this should definitely be its action, i.e. lem stays still, drill moves up.

It wouldn't be quite as easy as you think to animate, though. Yes, the lem could stay still, but we then have to animate a potentially infinite drill-bit. The code for the laser is extensive, for example. Doable though, and the idea is sound.

Either of the other two ideas (Propeller or Twister), then, should maybe end with the lem "landing" at the top of their newly-created tunnel.

We can then distill this down to two options. Before discussing visualisation/animation ideas any further, let's decide which of these two actions we prefer.:

1) Lem stays where they are when creating tunnel
2) Lem arrives at the top of whatever tunnel they create

I probably prefer (2), but either could work.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 02:14:46 PM by WillLem »

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2023, 07:45:30 AM »
I also prefer 2 (Lem arrives at the top of the tunnel they create).
Everything else is just a rebranded version of the L2 Laser Blaster, merely using a different tool to avoid confusion with the NeoLemmix diagonal Laserer.

At that point, a "flexible Laserer" that works more like a destructive version of the L2 Roper or Archer (i.e., with the player being able to decide the angle with a second mouseclick) would make more sense to me. :evil: Obviously, that would require both changes to the established Laserer AND be a lot of programming effort (there is a reason we've ruled out the Roper and Archer early, and went with the more straightforward Spearer instead).

And since I always warn about making more changes to established skills (as much as I do enjoy the Freezer now), I only brought this up as a thought experiment. ;) I actually still think the diagonal Laserer is versatile enough, even more useful than a vertical Laserer, oftentimes - because
a) the shafts are Walker- and Shimmier-friendly, not just Climber-friendly, and
b) they're also Faller-friendly, not just Floater/Glider/Slider friendly :D.



For the same reason that we don't need a vertical Laserer, though, I also think we don't need a Driller that stands still on the ground.


The unique features of an upward Digger are not merely restricted to the angle of the shaft, but also to the position of the lemming.
The Twister / Driller / Propeller could move upwards through terrain, which neither the Climber nor the Laserer nor the Ballooner (or a Glider in an updraft) can.

Many advanced levels rely on having to manipulate the positions and directions of movement of individual worker lemmings (oftentimes several workers at once, rather than a single "pioneer").
The Laserer is pretty useless in such levels - aside from its ability to shoot a Shimmier from a ceiling, if timed correctly. :D
In NeoLemmix, that's your only option; in SuperLemmix, you can also do this with a Spearer or Grenader.

The Twister / Driller / Propeller, meanwhile, could easily swap positions with another lemming, by moving upwards through terrain and, in doing so, creating a shaft for other lemmings to fall down.
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2023, 04:36:24 AM »
I'm starting to think the best option is for the lemming to end up at the top.

Leaving him at the bottom is indeed too similar to the laserer and limits his usefulness.

I would side with the (propeller)... Over my own suggested driller.
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline Floyd Brannon

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2023, 11:24:48 PM »
What would happen if you propelled upward through terrain that had a layer of steel at the top of it? I think we should ohno the lemming with the ohno sound too. This would be a sacrifice but maybe be a good way to deal with what to do with it.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SUG] New skill - Twister/Propeller (vertically-upwards Digger)
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2023, 11:52:15 PM »
What would happen if you propelled upward through terrain that had a layer of steel at the top of it?

I imagine they would simply fall back down the tunnel in this scenario.