Author Topic: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 1579 times)

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Offline IchoTolot

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Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« on: September 08, 2022, 02:47:26 PM »
All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ncx54uscauknbef/Contest_26.zip?dl=1

Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zqfah0w1az117l/Contest_26_Music.zip?dl=1

Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "The Irony of Fate" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Empire Of Bones" (V2)
kaywhyn's "Steeling the Inevitable Victory" (V5)
NieSch's "Blocker from Hell" (V2)


Rule 2 Levels

Armani's "There's a Sniper in the Forest" (V1)
Crane's "Perilous Parkour" (V6)
IchoTolot's "The Living Infinite" (V4)
kwywhyn's "Don't Stop Shimmying 'Til You Had Enough" (V10)
NieSch's "Let's Go for Gold" (V2)


Rule 3 Levels

IchoTolot's "Upwards To The Lower Floor" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Outdoor Lemming Rangers to the Rescue" (V5)
NieSch's "Wee Walk in Winter Wonderland" (V4)
SQron188's "I hate sand" (V1)
Armani's "Yuna's Room" (V1)


You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6033.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 31th of October!
Updates will close on 28th of October!


Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

Link to update topic
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 09:29:11 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 03:38:48 PM »
This is gonna be fun again! :)

I stumbled on a first solution.

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2022, 04:51:55 PM »
I bet this one isn't intended.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2022, 06:41:52 PM »
@Niesch

Thanks for being so quick with playing two of my levels! :thumbsup: Indeed, they're backroutes for my R2 and R3. They're supposed to be much harder than that! For R2, added steel and made the cloners pickups. For R3, increased the lemming count to 40. That was a terrible "undersight" on my part :forehead:

Even after the changes, I still assess my R3 to be the easiest of my levels, while R1 is most definitely my hardest, and very likely the hardest level I have made thus far in my Lemmings level making career. that is, assuming all backroutes for the level are fixed of course. However, I wish you luck if you're still trying to get it solved.

Thanks again for the R2 and R3 replays! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2022, 08:54:05 PM »
You're welcome. Here's another solution for your R3 level.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2022, 09:32:12 PM »
@Niesch

Doh, that's another obvious backroute I missed :laugh: For V3, I modified the terrain/steel/some water areas a bit, removed the platformer and replaced it with another builder, and added a trap. This might do it now, but let's see :P

Thanks for the resolve of R3! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2022, 07:35:35 AM »
I solved cranes Rule 2 level (Both Talismans).
Also solved Armani's Rule 2 level.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2022, 09:02:55 AM »
All R2's and R3's solved. Replays attached except for Icho's levels, as I pretested them. The R1's, I must say, are quite tough, and as I have spent a lot of time and haven't had any success on them yet, I skipped them after some time and went straight for the other two rulesets. I will have another go at them soon!

R2 Feedback

These levels featuring infinite jumpers were all quite interesting, to say the least! :thumbsup:


Crane's Perilous Parkour R2V1 (click to show/hide)

Niesch's Let's Go For Gold R2V1 (click to show/hide)


R3 Feedback

Not much for me to do here, especially since there's mine and Icho's which I pretested. So, that means I only needed to play 2 R3 levels! :laugh:


SQRon188's I hate sand (click to show/hide)

All rightie, pending maybe a backroute to Niesch's R3, that just leaves the R1's to play. Again, had a go at them but no success yet. I will try again later!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2022, 09:25:55 AM »
Niesch's Let's Go For Gold R2V1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2022, 09:35:43 AM »
Pack has been updated and it also includes now a new level+music from Armani for Rule 3! 

That one slipped right past me while preparing pack+topic. :-[

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2022, 07:07:21 PM »
I solved Icho's R3 level. I like it a lot. :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2022, 07:44:49 PM »
I solved Icho's R3 level. I like it a lot. :thumbsup:

Intended solution! :thumbsup:

You even managed to save one more shimmier than in my own solution! Which is totally fine in this level as long as the correct overall method is being used. ;)

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2022, 08:43:58 PM »
Forgot to announce that the solutions to my levels are backroutes, although granted it's hard to patch infinite jumpers.  V2 released.

Offline SQron188

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2022, 09:40:42 PM »
my replays so far

I quite enjoyed most of the levels of this contest.

Thanks for the kind words, kaywhyn!

Oh, and I recorded myself playing these https://youtu.be/-A6phUtNrvo

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2022, 11:51:17 PM »
Thanks for the kind words, kaywhyn!

Oh, and I recorded myself playing these https://youtu.be/-A6phUtNrvo

My pleasure and thanks for playing my levels! :thumbsup: Thanks to you, some backroutes for both my R1 and R2 have been discovered. For R1, that's a very bad backroute. It's supposed to be far harder than that. That is, unless there are still some backroutes that still break the level. I suspect if the intended solution is enforced, it could possibly be the hardest level in the entire collection.

For R1, I added some steel, shifted a steel platform in the middle left area, shifted a fire trap, and replaced a trap with a different one. I'm not sure if this catches all backroutes, but well, let's see.

I realized that one for my R2, but I didn't think it would come up. Good find! :thumbsup: For V3 of my R2, added some OWAs. This should do the trick! :laugh:

For my R3, watching you have an attempt at it is quite helpful for me, as I get to see how one might go about solving it, as well as see what kind of things could trip people up when doing so. I can see that in a way I unintentionally made the level harder than I thought I did, as honestly my R3 is completely meh since I couldn't really come up with anything good for it other than the trick at the beginning that I wanted to include in the solution. For example, you showed me how a lot of possibilities you have tried come up at least a skill short. Not to mention I threw in far more red herrings than I thought I did. All I have to say here is that all of your attempts are a bit far from the intended route. However, the hardest part is the very beginning of keeping everyone safe. Once you do figure out how, the rest will fall into place.

Again, I can't thank you enough for these replays to my levels and for playing them! :thumbsup:
   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2022, 01:56:07 AM »
@kaywhyn @ericderkovits

Well done! Both of your solutions are acceptable! :thumbsup:
It's an open-ended level that any solutions are acceptable as long as you eliminate all the zombies.
This level is one of the results of me experimenting to make levels that are very different to normal lemmings levels. ;)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2022, 04:58:16 AM »
I played rule2 first and here're my replays! 8-)
Jumper is a very powerful skill and it shows ;P
Perilous Parkour (click to show/hide)
The Living Infinite (click to show/hide)
Let's Go for Gold (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2022, 07:41:24 AM »
I like the fact that we all chose different styles for the L2-levels, by the way.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2022, 08:33:44 AM »
@Armani:

Yes, that's a backroute. I changed up the exit area a bit so that you can't just dig to victory there. ;)

Also the pack in general has been updated. :)


Offline SQron188

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2022, 09:52:19 AM »
I like the fact that we all chose different styles for the L2-levels, by the way.
Yeah, I was actually meaning to use L2 Beach for some time myself.

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2022, 10:07:35 AM »
I solved SQron188's level. Clever little puzzle!


Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2022, 11:08:26 AM »

@Armani: This is how you quote a spoiler tag, btw. Simply leave the tags at both the start and the end there and then whatever's behind it will remain behind the spoiler tag when you click on "quote." I just noticed you did the same in the Uncharted pack of leaving what I spoilered out in the open for a Libra level, so yea, just wanted to help and advise you there :P

Anyway, yes, that is another bad backroute that I missed for my R2. Luckily, it's an easy fix. For V4, I added some more OWAs, a small block, and shifted down the terrain near the top on the right side.

I'm sure you'll absolutely love the level once the intended solution is enforced :)

I like the fact that we all chose different styles for the L2-levels, by the way.

You're right! :lem-mindblown: All from official Lemmings games too! Icho's and yours are Crystal and Pillar, respectively, both from L1, while Crane's and mine are from ONML, Rock and Brick, respectively. Finally, Armani's is the Outdoor tileset from L2

Yeah, I was actually meaning to use L2 Beach for some time myself.

I try to make sure I vary the tilesets I use to make levels instead of using just the ones from the official Lemmings games. In this case, I've already repeated the Brick tileset after just 12 levels, which isn't much but I guess that technically can be seen as a lot from me lol. I really do love the fact there's so many to choose from, but at the same time that also makes it difficult to pick one when making levels too

Quote
Again, I can't thank you enough for these replays to my levels and for playing them! :thumbsup: 

Part 2 https://youtu.be/30XF_iFGb0M
Part 3 coming soon

Thanks again! :) 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 11:13:31 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2022, 12:59:06 PM »
Quote
@Armani: This is how you quote a spoiler tag, btw. Simply leave the tags at both the start and the end there and then whatever's behind it will remain behind the spoiler tag when you click on "quote." I just noticed you did the same in the Uncharted pack of leaving what I spoilered out in the open for a Libra level, so yea, just wanted to help and advise you there :P
That was intentional. That's how I quote a spoiler tag. :P

And I squeezed in more time to solve rule1 levels 8-)
Empire Of Bones (click to show/hide)
Steeling the Inevitable Victory (click to show/hide)
Blocker from Hell (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2022, 01:12:27 PM »
Blocker from Hell (click to show/hide)

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. Your solution is very much what I intended but you managed to save more lemmings and spare more skills. It's not a backroute, it's just very well done. :thumbsup:

Edit: I decided to make a little change in the level after all. See the update topic. ;)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 02:57:05 PM by NieSch »

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2022, 02:00:59 PM »
Almost there with "Perilous Parkour" - there's not meant to be excessively tight timing required on this level, but at the same time there's a puzzle-solving element.  V3 now released (sorry guys!)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2022, 05:46:30 PM »
@Armani

Yeah, that's still quite backroutey.

Some miners are now pick-ups in V2.

The pack overall has also been updated again! :)

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2022, 07:26:40 PM »
Another solution for kaywhyn's R2 level. (V4)

Edit: And also for R3. (Sorry, more backroutes I'm afraid.)

« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 09:01:19 PM by NieSch »

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2022, 08:37:41 AM »
This solution to kaywhyn's R3 level feels better.

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2022, 10:44:19 AM »
Solved final rank of the contest pack! 8-)
Upwards To The Lower Floor (click to show/hide)
Wee Walk in Winter Wonderland (click to show/hide)
I hate sand (click to show/hide)

My solutions for the updated levels will come on the next weekend as I'm pretty busy on weekdays :(
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2022, 10:58:36 AM »
Wee Walk in Winter Wonderland (click to show/hide)

Thanks! Your solution is completely intended.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline SQron188

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2022, 01:08:07 PM »
I hate sand (click to show/hide)

Thank you for the words of appreaciation, they are greatly appreciated! :D Yes, that was the intended trick of this level and its main idea.
This trick as well as the tileset's been on my mind for a while and I had to itch this scratch. ; )

BTW I really enjoyed your levels, especially the one where you shoot zombies, they're just beyond my solving skills! :#

PSA: part 3 of my solving attempts is on YouTube https://youtu.be/IuYqd2Tqik4

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2022, 01:29:48 PM »
@Armani:

I had 1 shimmier left over, NieSch 2 and you 3 now. :D

It is totally fine and intended though! :thumbsup:

Maybe that is a good bronze talisman solution in future pack inclusions as with a little bit of planning and timing you can easily save those 3.

@SQron

One of your attempts in your video made me find a bad backroute to my R2 which is now fixed with a steel block, so thanks for that! ;P
« Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 01:53:35 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2022, 05:25:27 PM »
PSA: part 3 of my solving attempts is on YouTube https://youtu.be/IuYqd2Tqik4

These videos of yours are fun to watch! You were very close with finding a backroute for my R3 level. I made some changes to it in V4 so this backroute is no longer possible. And well done finding a solution to my R2 level.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2022, 01:52:48 PM »
@Niesch

R2 - You're correct in that's a backroute. For V5, I added some more steel, OWAs, and added and modified some terrain. Also moved the cloner pickups and the basher is now a pickup.

R3 - Both solutions are backroutes, sadly. For V4 - I widened the water gap and shifted the terrain on the right side of it.


@Armani

Your solution to R3 is almost 100% intended, but what isn't is the way you used the second basher. So, for V4 I added some steel. So for this version, all you just need is a way to contain the crowd, tweak the second basher assignment, and then you have the intended solution! ;)

That was intentional. That's how I quote a spoiler tag. :P

Ah, well personally, if something was behind a spoiler tag to begin with, then the user being quoted generally had a really good reason for doing so. For me, it's simple: It's because I don't want the solution spoiled for anyone! Of course, even with a spoiler tag there's nothing stopping the person from opening it, either accidentally or intentionally, but well, that's on him or her. Thus, I would make it remain behind one when I'm quoting another user :P However, I will say this, and that is you did do it correctly when you made the update to Uncharted and replied to some of my solutions/remarks, so that was much appreciated ;)


All in all, this essentially means not a single person has found the intended solution to any of my levels yet! :crylaugh: However, I think I have a really good feeling for both my R2 and R3 now. R1 is probably still very broken, but well, let's see. Try the new updates and I'll keep my fingers crossed I'll finally have the intended solution enforced on one or some of them now!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 11:00:42 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline SQron188

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2022, 10:40:04 PM »
@SQron
One of your attempts in your video made me find a bad backroute to my R2 which is now fixed with a steel block, so thanks for that! ;P

yw

These videos of yours are fun to watch! You were very close with finding a backroute for my R3 level. I made some changes to it in V4 so this backroute is no longer possible. And well done finding a solution to my R2 level.

Thanks. Figuring out which areas are safe-to-enter for sliders & climbers, respectively, was satisfying

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2022, 08:47:06 AM »
@kaywhyn: I'm starting to see where the intended solution to your R2 level is heading, but I found another backroute (for V5) first. Here it is.

I hope you don't get discouraged by all the backroutes. It's the fact that you only need to save 1 lemming in combination with the unlimited number of jumpers that is causing it I think. (And there is always gonna be backroutes of course, in almost every level.)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2022, 09:50:18 AM »
Thanks for the replay, Niesch! :thumbsup: Indeed, it's another backroute that I somehow missed. For V6, it's an easy fix: Replaced the barrel with the bigger one, added some OWAs on the barrel, as well as a small block, and shifted the terrain a bit in that area. Now you won't be able to cheese the level the way you did! :P

I hope you don't get discouraged by all the backroutes. It's the fact that you only need to save 1 lemming in combination with the unlimited number of jumpers that is causing it I think. (And there is always gonna be backroutes of course, in almost every level.)

It can hurt, but as with anything, experience helps! Backroutes arise not only because sometimes it's not possible to catch them on your own, but also it's extremely difficult to predict how another player will go about solving your level. Thus, it is never certain that all backroutes have been caught. I've made enough levels to know that backroute fixing can sometimes be just as time consuming as solving. In addition, the more complicated the level/solution, the more likely the level can be backrouted due to the degrees of freedom such a level can provide, especially with the skillset.

In any case, you and SQRon are other players besides Armani and Icho (who always play all contest levels, including mine) who have shown me additional backroutes, and for that I'm very thankful for the replays. I think you already know Armani and Icho both have the very uncanny ability to backroute levels because they're extremely good at the game. Therefore, it's very difficult to backroute fix against them. I've had my fair share of numerous backroutes from each of them in some of the previous contests :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 10:20:35 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2022, 11:14:39 AM »
I found another way around it, kaywhyn.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2022, 11:40:44 AM »
@Niesch

Ugh, just when I finally think there's no other way around the intended solution :forehead: For V7, the RR is now locked and I added another small block. This should do it now... I hope!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2022, 05:46:03 PM »
Nope, here's another one. I'll give the level a rest now and come back to it later. :)

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2022, 08:52:22 AM »
Turns out my fix didn't quite work as planned.  V4 of Perilous Parkour now released.

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2022, 12:08:48 PM »
@Niesch Ok, finally released a V8 for my R2, which replaced the brick terrain with another piece type and added several of them near the barrel, as well as more OWAs. Also added a small brick piece close where the exit is in the area beneath it. It took a while because I kept trying to stop a backroute I discovered to no success. I think this might finally do it. If this still doesn't stop your backrouting, then I'm not sure what else I can do with this level to fix it further without making it more of a mess which it's starting to become :(
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2022, 10:47:11 AM »
I dare ask if Perilous Parkour is fixed now or if previous solutions still work with some adjustments (the ones I've seen so far are backroutes).

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2022, 01:55:01 PM »
Finally got all the R1's solved, although in Icho's case a resolve, as I pretested his R1 but we failed to get it properly all patched up before the start of the playing phase. My replays are attached. I must say, all the R1's are quite difficult, and I even assess mine to be hard as well. If anything, my R1 could possibly be the hardest of the entire contest collection pack, assuming backroutes don't break it, of course, but if not, then possibly contender for the hardest after Icho's R1.

@Icho

Ok, I think we finally got the 100% intended solution enforced! :thumbsup: It might had taken 1 more version because of Armani, but you finally did it ;) I can't shake the feeling that I didn't do enough for you because of how your R1 didn't get all patched up before the start of the playing phase, but well, this is just me being too hard on myself, so I think you will disagree about me not having done enough. Not to mention that it isn't worth it to delay the playing phase just because of this, especially as it was already delayed once when the submission phase deadline got pushed back.

I do have a blocker left, but I know exactly what it's for.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Armani's The Irony of Fate R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Niesch's Blocker From Hell R1V2 (click to show/hide)


I was planning to post the R1 replays after I got Armani's R3 solved, but I will need some more time to think about it. I simply wanted to get all the R1's done :P
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 02:02:31 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2022, 02:33:06 PM »
Resolved all the updated levels. 8-) (all R1s, all R2s and kaywhyn's R3)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2022, 02:44:42 PM »
@kaywhyn
That's exactly the intended solution! Well done! :thumbsup:

Quote
I got to ask, why 55 stoners?  Perhaps that's the "irony"?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2022, 04:10:04 PM »
@kaywhyn @Armani: Well done solving my R1 level (again)! Your solutions are fine or even a bit better than my intended one, see attachment. :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2022, 07:20:09 PM »
@kaywhyn @Armani: You both got the same acceptable/intended solution to my R1, great job! :thumbsup:

The saved blocker is exactly for avoiding that one timing thing as kaywhyn described! ;)

@Armani:

Still a bad backroute to R2 though. More steel should fix it hopefully.


Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2022, 07:42:32 AM »
@Armani

R1: Your replay doesn't work for the latest version of it, which is V3. I guess that's my fault, since I forgot to mention that I updated my R1 to fix your backroute in V2 :-[ Also if you redownloaded the collection pack my V3 is in there, and you would had seen that your replay for V2 doesn't work :P So, I still have no idea if my R1 is properly patched up yet, although I think I thought up of something that might be taken advantage of in it, but well, let's see first ;)

R2: Yup, still a backroute. For V9, I moved the basher pickup, so this might be back to the drawing board :P

R3: Backroute as well. For V5, I increased the RR to 70, as well as locked the RR, and I smoothed out the terrain near the frog traps.


Once more, nobody still has gotten the intended solutions to any of my levels :evil: It's my R1 that I really want to know if it is properly patched or still very broken. R2 and R3 I think are more or less completely patched now, but well, let's see. Keep those replays coming! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2022, 12:32:00 PM »
@Amrani:

For Perilous Parkour, the speedy solution is a backroute, and the conservative solution is almost intended, although an oversight permitted a small shortcut.  Easy enough to fix though.  V5 uploaded
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 12:43:09 PM by Crane »

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2022, 08:57:57 AM »
Here are my replays for :
 
Cranes Rule 2 level both Talismans

and

Kaywhyn's Rule 1 level (most likely not intended since I had skills left over)

« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 09:13:30 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2022, 01:43:15 PM »
Dang, every nook and cranny is being used against me!  Nice one eric.  V6 incoming.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2022, 12:38:50 PM »
@eric Yes, that is a backroute for my R1. For V4, I lowered the upper right fire trap, as well as added more fire traps and a small steel block. I think this still won't be enough, but I think I know of a few other ways in which the level can still be backrouted. However, let's see how V4 stands up to scrutiny.

Also, I asked you kindly long ago to not bug me about me not going for talismans, but you're apparently still pestering me about that, not on this site but offsite. It's a personal decision of mine, and if you don't like that I don't go for them, deal with it. I honestly don't care about them at all, as I have repeatedly said several times. What I take issue with is you saying you don't care for them but you go for them anyway. I'm not bothered by you going for those solutions, that's not the problem, but rather the contradiction in what you say and do. Not only that, but you saying that I'm the only one who doesn't go for them. That's not cool at all to single me out like that, when that's obviously not true, since there's some others who don't as well.

This isn't my biggest gripe, though. I'm even more bothered by how you took levels/conversions of mine from last year and changed them without my permission or without discussing the changes with me first. Always, always ask the author first. There'll be less problems this way. Especially in a case like this, as I tend to be very overprotective of my content.

I honestly don't want to have a falling out with you too, but you haven't acknowledged or owed up to me with these things, so that's quite hurtful for me.


Anyway, for everyone else, no intended solutions for any of my levels yet :( I honestly didn't expect them to be backrouted so much. Especially my R3, which I consider to be very meh and not all that interesting IMO.   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2022, 11:40:08 AM »
@kaywhyn
I'll give the level [R2] a rest now and come back to it later. :)

I haven't solved it but I'm getting closer to what is intended I suspect. See the attachment for my best attempt.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2022, 12:33:37 PM »
resolved 8-)
I might have found the intended solutions to The Living Ininite and Outdoor Lemmings Rangers to the Rescue.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2022, 07:28:23 PM »
@Armani

Yes, finally that is intended! Great job! :thumbsup:

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2022, 08:23:38 AM »
@Armani

R1 - Yup, still pretty broken. For V5, added some steel, replaced some water with fire traps, and shifted some of the area on the far left down some. I don't think this will catch everything yet, and if it doesn't, I'm thinking of putting in a timer for the next version. However, it depends on how bad the backroute is, so let's see first.

R2 - Both solutions are backroutes, and it seems the way the laser was used was the source of the backroutes in both replays. So, for V10 I added another steel block.

R3 - Finally, a level of mine solved 100% intended! :thumbsup: I was even generous here giving more swimmers than needed :P


Also, finally resolved all R2 and R3, as well as got Armani's R3 solved. My entire replay collection is attached, including my solutions to Ichos' levels. I will attach the intended solutions to my levels at a later time, once all of them have been solved the intended way or are deemed acceptable.

These all seem to be intended/acceptable solutions except for Crane's R2, as I was still able to backroute it :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


@Armani

My solution to your R3 seems quite hackish, especially with the way one of the shimmiers is used, although maybe it's intended? I'm not sure.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


@Icho

I needed to resolve your R2, as apparently the change right where the exit is was enough to break it. However, the jumper assignments in that area were the only ones I needed to tweak, and so ultimately this solution is more or less the same as my pre-testing one, sparing a shimmier as well. However, it seems that it hasn't opened up any major backroute, so it's probably still in the acceptable region?

My replay for your R3 is the same one from pre-testing, so no need to check that one. For your R1, that replay is the one from a few days ago, and you have said that it is now acceptable/intended, so don't need to check that one either.


@Niesch

R2 doesn't really need any checking, as even though it broke my replay and hence I had to resolve it, the change is simply to block getting a climber to certain buttons.

Your R3 seems solid and intended now! :thumbsup: Funny thing was that I couldn't figure it out last night, but when I came back to it tonight I had no problems with it :laugh: You also seem to very much love 1-of-everything levels, as recently I was helping Ryemanni out with one of your Tricky levels from LLL because he had been stuck on it for a few days. I love these types of levels too, although the ones I've seen from you are quite challenging! Not a bad thing at all, I love hard levels and a good challenge ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


All rightie, I'll be back to resolve any patched up levels that need it at a much later time. I definitely need a break from these contest entries, especially since fixing mine up prove to be just as much work as playing and solving these! Nice job to everyone with their levels! :thumbsup:   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2022, 07:10:02 AM »
@Niesch
Your R3 seems solid and intended now! :thumbsup: Funny thing was that I couldn't figure it out last night, but when I came back to it tonight I had no problems with it :laugh: You also seem to very much love 1-of-everything levels, as recently I was helping Ryemanni out with one of your Tricky levels from LLL because he had been stuck on it for a few days. I love these types of levels too, although the ones I've seen from you are quite challenging! Not a bad thing at all, I love hard levels and a good challenge ;)

It's intended, well done. Yes, I really like 1-of-everything levels. There's seven of them in my pack LLL. Most of the time the solution turns out to be harder to find than I thought, like in this R3-case.

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2022, 09:25:50 AM »
@kaywhyn
r1 and r2 are intended as I already mentioned r3 is a backroute. :(
And I resolved the updated 2 levels. 8-)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2022, 03:28:50 PM »
I will probably puzzle myself through the levels in the first week of October as I have the week off there. :)

I see there are still quite a few backroutes in there.