Author Topic: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 1580 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NieSch

  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2022, 10:58:36 AM »
Wee Walk in Winter Wonderland (click to show/hide)

Thanks! Your solution is completely intended.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline SQron188

  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2022, 01:08:07 PM »
I hate sand (click to show/hide)

Thank you for the words of appreaciation, they are greatly appreciated! :D Yes, that was the intended trick of this level and its main idea.
This trick as well as the tileset's been on my mind for a while and I had to itch this scratch. ; )

BTW I really enjoyed your levels, especially the one where you shoot zombies, they're just beyond my solving skills! :#

PSA: part 3 of my solving attempts is on YouTube https://youtu.be/IuYqd2Tqik4

Offline IchoTolot

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 3356
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2022, 01:29:48 PM »
@Armani:

I had 1 shimmier left over, NieSch 2 and you 3 now. :D

It is totally fine and intended though! :thumbsup:

Maybe that is a good bronze talisman solution in future pack inclusions as with a little bit of planning and timing you can easily save those 3.

@SQron

One of your attempts in your video made me find a bad backroute to my R2 which is now fixed with a steel block, so thanks for that! ;P
« Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 01:53:35 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline NieSch

  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2022, 05:25:27 PM »
PSA: part 3 of my solving attempts is on YouTube https://youtu.be/IuYqd2Tqik4

These videos of yours are fun to watch! You were very close with finding a backroute for my R3 level. I made some changes to it in V4 so this backroute is no longer possible. And well done finding a solution to my R2 level.

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2022, 01:52:48 PM »
@Niesch

R2 - You're correct in that's a backroute. For V5, I added some more steel, OWAs, and added and modified some terrain. Also moved the cloner pickups and the basher is now a pickup.

R3 - Both solutions are backroutes, sadly. For V4 - I widened the water gap and shifted the terrain on the right side of it.


@Armani

Your solution to R3 is almost 100% intended, but what isn't is the way you used the second basher. So, for V4 I added some steel. So for this version, all you just need is a way to contain the crowd, tweak the second basher assignment, and then you have the intended solution! ;)

That was intentional. That's how I quote a spoiler tag. :P

Ah, well personally, if something was behind a spoiler tag to begin with, then the user being quoted generally had a really good reason for doing so. For me, it's simple: It's because I don't want the solution spoiled for anyone! Of course, even with a spoiler tag there's nothing stopping the person from opening it, either accidentally or intentionally, but well, that's on him or her. Thus, I would make it remain behind one when I'm quoting another user :P However, I will say this, and that is you did do it correctly when you made the update to Uncharted and replied to some of my solutions/remarks, so that was much appreciated ;)


All in all, this essentially means not a single person has found the intended solution to any of my levels yet! :crylaugh: However, I think I have a really good feeling for both my R2 and R3 now. R1 is probably still very broken, but well, let's see. Try the new updates and I'll keep my fingers crossed I'll finally have the intended solution enforced on one or some of them now!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 11:00:42 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline SQron188

  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2022, 10:40:04 PM »
@SQron
One of your attempts in your video made me find a bad backroute to my R2 which is now fixed with a steel block, so thanks for that! ;P

yw

These videos of yours are fun to watch! You were very close with finding a backroute for my R3 level. I made some changes to it in V4 so this backroute is no longer possible. And well done finding a solution to my R2 level.

Thanks. Figuring out which areas are safe-to-enter for sliders & climbers, respectively, was satisfying

Offline NieSch

  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2022, 08:47:06 AM »
@kaywhyn: I'm starting to see where the intended solution to your R2 level is heading, but I found another backroute (for V5) first. Here it is.

I hope you don't get discouraged by all the backroutes. It's the fact that you only need to save 1 lemming in combination with the unlimited number of jumpers that is causing it I think. (And there is always gonna be backroutes of course, in almost every level.)

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2022, 09:50:18 AM »
Thanks for the replay, Niesch! :thumbsup: Indeed, it's another backroute that I somehow missed. For V6, it's an easy fix: Replaced the barrel with the bigger one, added some OWAs on the barrel, as well as a small block, and shifted the terrain a bit in that area. Now you won't be able to cheese the level the way you did! :P

I hope you don't get discouraged by all the backroutes. It's the fact that you only need to save 1 lemming in combination with the unlimited number of jumpers that is causing it I think. (And there is always gonna be backroutes of course, in almost every level.)

It can hurt, but as with anything, experience helps! Backroutes arise not only because sometimes it's not possible to catch them on your own, but also it's extremely difficult to predict how another player will go about solving your level. Thus, it is never certain that all backroutes have been caught. I've made enough levels to know that backroute fixing can sometimes be just as time consuming as solving. In addition, the more complicated the level/solution, the more likely the level can be backrouted due to the degrees of freedom such a level can provide, especially with the skillset.

In any case, you and SQRon are other players besides Armani and Icho (who always play all contest levels, including mine) who have shown me additional backroutes, and for that I'm very thankful for the replays. I think you already know Armani and Icho both have the very uncanny ability to backroute levels because they're extremely good at the game. Therefore, it's very difficult to backroute fix against them. I've had my fair share of numerous backroutes from each of them in some of the previous contests :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 10:20:35 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2022, 11:14:39 AM »
I found another way around it, kaywhyn.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2022, 11:40:44 AM »
@Niesch

Ugh, just when I finally think there's no other way around the intended solution :forehead: For V7, the RR is now locked and I added another small block. This should do it now... I hope!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2022, 05:46:03 PM »
Nope, here's another one. I'll give the level a rest now and come back to it later. :)

Offline Crane

  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2022, 08:52:22 AM »
Turns out my fix didn't quite work as planned.  V4 of Perilous Parkour now released.

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2022, 12:08:48 PM »
@Niesch Ok, finally released a V8 for my R2, which replaced the brick terrain with another piece type and added several of them near the barrel, as well as more OWAs. Also added a small brick piece close where the exit is in the area beneath it. It took a while because I kept trying to stop a backroute I discovered to no success. I think this might finally do it. If this still doesn't stop your backrouting, then I'm not sure what else I can do with this level to fix it further without making it more of a mess which it's starting to become :(
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Crane

  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2022, 10:47:11 AM »
I dare ask if Perilous Parkour is fixed now or if previous solutions still work with some adjustments (the ones I've seen so far are backroutes).

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2022, 01:55:01 PM »
Finally got all the R1's solved, although in Icho's case a resolve, as I pretested his R1 but we failed to get it properly all patched up before the start of the playing phase. My replays are attached. I must say, all the R1's are quite difficult, and I even assess mine to be hard as well. If anything, my R1 could possibly be the hardest of the entire contest collection pack, assuming backroutes don't break it, of course, but if not, then possibly contender for the hardest after Icho's R1.

@Icho

Ok, I think we finally got the 100% intended solution enforced! :thumbsup: It might had taken 1 more version because of Armani, but you finally did it ;) I can't shake the feeling that I didn't do enough for you because of how your R1 didn't get all patched up before the start of the playing phase, but well, this is just me being too hard on myself, so I think you will disagree about me not having done enough. Not to mention that it isn't worth it to delay the playing phase just because of this, especially as it was already delayed once when the submission phase deadline got pushed back.

I do have a blocker left, but I know exactly what it's for.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Armani's The Irony of Fate R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Niesch's Blocker From Hell R1V2 (click to show/hide)


I was planning to post the R1 replays after I got Armani's R3 solved, but I will need some more time to think about it. I simply wanted to get all the R1's done :P
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 02:02:31 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0