Author Topic: Inspiring Level Designers' Future Levels From My Level Solutions  (Read 1014 times)

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Online kaywhyn

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Inspiring Level Designers' Future Levels From My Level Solutions
« on: September 07, 2021, 09:46:47 AM »
Something that I've been thinking about a lot lately as a result of a discussion I've had with a forum member on Discord, and that is some level designers have been kind enough to tell me that I've helped inspired some future levels of theirs due to a solution I found to a level. Off the top of my head, Armani and Flopsy are two such members who each have told me that I've inspired a level for their future level packs. The former was due to a trick I used in my solution to one of Nessy's past contest levels, and he has already released his pack, so I look forward to playing it and seeing if I can identify the level I gave Armani inspiration for. For the latter, it was due to a solution I found to a SEB Lems Migration level.

Truthfully, I feel very honored whenever a level designer approaches me and says that I've been inspirational with future levels for the author, because it means that I've been helping out the person with level ideas based on my solutions I've found to some levels. So really, I honestly had no idea I've been very instrumental in helping level designers with future level ideas of their own because of my solutions that I've found to either one of his or her own levels or due to watching my solution to a level that isn't his or hers.

As further examples, I've recently been going through and uploading my video solutions to some packs for really old versions of NL. I will use Gigalem's packs as the example here. While going through and seeing the levels again after so long to his zombie pack, I've noticed that plenty of the levels resemble some of Icho's Lemmings Reunion ones. A few borrowed the structure(s) in a few parts of the level, others were complete remakes so that if you already played the level in Reunion you will likely recognize it in Gigalem's pack and hence where he got the inspiration from.

Also, I completely recognized a level from the zombie pack where Gigalem took 4 levels from namida's Doomsday pack and made it a complete disjoint union level, very similar to Synchronised Lemming in that it was 4 mini-levels in one. I recognized it only due to how I had played Doomsday Lemmings shortly before I played Gigalem's zombie pack.

As another example, this time involving one of my own, I got inspiration for one of my levels from a part of the intended solution to one of Icho's Lemmings Reunion levels, and the level happens to be one of my absolute favorites of the pack! This is why when I need level ideas, I been rewatching my level solving commentary video series and/or level solutions. However, I've only made a total of 6 levels so far, but I'm certain that I will no doubt have more levels inspired from solutions that I see too!

If I didn't mention you, feel free to post to let me know if I've been inspirational to you for a future level of yours due to a solution I've found to one of your levels or just from seeing my solution to someone else's level you happened upon by chance! This should be a fun one ;)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 10:27:19 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline namida

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Re: Inspiring Level Designers' Future Levels From My Level Solutions
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2021, 07:07:43 PM »
I can think of at least one case where a level idea - or rather, one particular trick used in a level - in Lemmings Plus Omega 2, came to mind upon hearing Flopsy consider it in one of his solutions to a LPV level, then immediately dismiss it as "no, can't be, that's impossible" without trying it. I don't know from memory if it would have helped in what he was trying at the time, but it certianly wasn't impossible. :P

The trick in question was...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline WillLem

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Re: Inspiring Level Designers' Future Levels From My Level Solutions
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2021, 07:33:58 PM »
I feel very honored whenever a level designer approaches me and says that I've been inspirational with future levels for the author, because it means that I've been helping out the person with level ideas based on my solutions I've found to some levels

A lot of the best levels come about this way. Two minds can often be better than one when it comes to level design :lemcat:

I've also been thinking that community packs are the way to go, generally. A compilation of the best that the community has to offer seems like a great idea in order to collate everything from difficulty level, design quality, etc.

And - to be clear - I don't just mean throwing a load of levels together and calling it a pack; I think that such a pack ought to go through fairly thorough re-working of levels for backroute fixing, and also uplifting any aesthetics that may have been overlooked by more puzzle-focused designers - I'd even suggest re-working levels into a limited number of styles (say, 6 at the most). That way, the pack will feel more cohesive, be easier to maintain and update, and ideally have an overarching theme.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Inspiring Level Designers' Future Levels From My Level Solutions
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2021, 10:36:16 AM »
I corrected a tiny detail in the OP, as I was mistaken about SEB Lems. Instead, it seems that it was a solution I found to a Migration level that inspired one of Flopsy's levels for GGF.

I can think of at least one case where a level idea - or rather, one particular trick used in a level - in Lemmings Plus Omega 2, came to mind upon hearing Flopsy consider it in one of his solutions to a LPV level, then immediately dismiss it as "no, can't be, that's impossible" without trying it. I don't know from memory if it would have helped in what he was trying at the time, but it certianly wasn't impossible. :P

Very interesting, thanks for sharing :) Looks like I have a while to go, as it'll be some time before I get to either LPV or LPO2. I dare not open the spoiler just in case :P

A lot of the best levels come about this way. Two minds can often be better than one when it comes to level design :lemcat:

I've also been thinking that community packs are the way to go, generally. A compilation of the best that the community has to offer seems like a great idea in order to collate everything from difficulty level, design quality, etc.

And - to be clear - I don't just mean throwing a load of levels together and calling it a pack; I think that such a pack ought to go through fairly thorough re-working of levels for backroute fixing, and also uplifting any aesthetics that may have been overlooked by more puzzle-focused designers - I'd even suggest re-working levels into a limited number of styles (say, 6 at the most). That way, the pack will feel more cohesive, be easier to maintain and update, and ideally have an overarching theme.

While this is insightful analysis, my topic was more about solutions found to levels that have inspired future levels. For example, perhaps a solution I found to some of your Lemminas or possibly even Lemmings Inverse levels have possibly inspired some levels for some future packs by you. I'm not exactly sure if they have.

However, your related post and perhaps parts of my post as well can be a good discussion for another topic, which is how someone's level can inspire the design for another, regardless of what the level solution is.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

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Re: Inspiring Level Designers' Future Levels From My Level Solutions
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2021, 08:11:50 PM »
my topic was more about solutions found to levels that have inspired future levels. For example, perhaps a solution I found to some of your Lemminas or possibly even Lemmings Inverse levels have possibly inspired some levels for some future packs by you

Some of the levels in Lemminas were changed as a result of other people's solutions, i.e. they either became the main solution or a talisman variant. And, I'm certain that watching other people's LPs has inspired a number of level ideas, at least for me.