Author Topic: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 21064 times)

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Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2020, 08:11:03 AM »
@Kaywhyn
You totally backrouted both of my level :XD:

Neolemtris : As you might guess, Jumpers and a shimmier is not for delaying purpose. Increasing RR will block that.

Horenet flight : Same here. shimmier is not for delaying purpose. A fencer is now a pick-up skill ;)
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Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2020, 08:49:51 AM »

Great job! :)

I had a different solution in mind, but I knew there would be multiple possibilities. They key thing is the same:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2020, 09:54:37 AM »
I backrouted Dullstar's rule 1 level, V2.
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Offline Nessy

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2020, 05:47:36 PM »
Quote from: kaywhyn
Regarding Icho's R1 rule: I pre-tested all of Icho's contest levels, and as he would agree with me: "Intended!" :thumbsup:
Quote from: IchoTolot
Nessy's solution to my R1 is 100% intended. Good job! :thumbsup:

Excellent :thumbsup:

Also I resolved Armani's Rule 1 level and it should now be 100% intended ;) (hopefully!)

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2020, 05:52:02 PM »
yes kaywhyn backrouted my level so I changed it by:

1) altering 1st gap a bit
2) adding more flamethrowers.
3) adding left-facing OWW's right of transporter exit(vertical thin bar-no bashing there)
4) changed 7 of the builders to pickup skills.

Note: fixing backroutes are always going to be an issue with anybodys levels whether the person is new at designing levels(like me) or more experienced(as Armani's R1 level is already at version 3) and even Icho's
United goes through many updates.

Also I'm not the greatest designer so my levels in Angry lemmings may be boring but that's ok. Also this is why it takes so long to design levels. Nobody can get it right with just the 1st version unless it's meant
to be open-ended as with many 1st rank levels of most packs.

Note: also Kaywhyn you should try designing levels sometime, it kind of fun. Also fun to see peoples replays on your designed levels(even when you have to backroute fix them).
         

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2020, 07:31:39 PM »
Well, I've been on a solving frenzy the last few days with the contest levels. I've taken a look at the R3 levels and was able to solve all of them, and they're probably all backroutes except for mantha16's level. So, find my replays for the R3 levels attached. Again, I pre-tested Icho's R3 level, and so my feedback/replay for his level is omitted.

Armani's Marina Bay Sands (click to show/hide)

Crane's Hell's Challenger (click to show/hide)

Mantha16's Lemception (click to show/hide)

Nessy's Abandoned Memory (click to show/hide)

Note: also Kaywhyn you should try designing levels sometime, it kind of fun. Also fun to see peoples replays on your designed levels(even when you have to backroute fix them).         

Yes, as I have mentioned I will definitely get into level designing, just not this contest. The next one for sure. Also, I would urge you to take the time to play and solve these levels yourself. It's how one gets better at level solving. Think about how unfair it is for those who actually put in the time to play and solve the levels while you download the replays, watch them, and then attempt to imitate what you see. The biggest problem I've seen with this is that it tends to make the player one-sided and think the replay is the only solution to the level when in fact there might be multiple solutions. I'm sure level designing is hard work, but level solving can be just as time consuming. That's why I only watch after I solve the level myself first just to compare my solution to other players.

@Kaywhyn
You totally backrouted both of my level :XD:

Neolemtris : As you might guess, Jumpers and a shimmier is not for delaying purpose. Increasing RR will block that.

Horenet flight : Same here. shimmier is not for delaying purpose. A fencer is now a pick-up skill ;)

That's me all right. I'm apparently the backroute king :P

Rule3_03 Ichotolot's Temple Of Escher
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You are amazing, Armani! :lem-mindblown: You managed to save way more than both Icho and me. At first, I thought you were the one Icho was referring to in his post who saved two skills, but I'm guessing it might be josh. Not only are you definitely one of the best solvers, you're also a great level designer to boot! :thumbsup:



Thus, I have now seen all of the contest levels and I was able to save all of the R2 and R3 levels. Now I just need to go back and solve the 3 R1 levels I wasn't able to, as well as resolve both of Armani's R1 and R2 levels, as well as Dullstar's R1 and ericderkovits' R1 level. And of course, any other R2 and R3 levels I might had backrouted in the meantime.

Overall, excellent work to all the contest entrants! :thumbsup: I honestly thought I be able to breeze through all these levels very quickly. Nope, I was very wrong! Most of them turned out to be quite difficult even for someone like me who recently solved all of United but still need to go back and resolve the remaining 6 backroute patched levels in that pack. However, I still enjoyed the levels of those who I played for the very first time. Come to think of it, I think all of you I played levels by for the very first time, with the exception of Icho, of course. Once again, let me emphasize that you managing to stump even me is not necessarily a bad thing. Quite the contrary, as I love a good challenge, and I felt these contest levels challenged me enough appropriately to really make me think. In the end, I found it quite satisfying when the solution finally came to me and clicked and I was able to solve them!

Anyway, here's hoping I'll be able to solve the 3 R1 levels I haven't been able to yet, as well as being able to resolve the newest versions of some R1 and R2 levels. Also, I can't wait to see other solutions to Icho's R2 level from any/all of you if you're able to solve it. I admit that when I pre-tested it that it looks and feels overwhelming, but honestly it's more tricky than difficult. And of course, I'm looking forward to other R1/R2/R3 solutions.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 08:13:13 PM by kaywhyn »
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Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2020, 11:42:08 PM »
Quote
This is likely a backroute, considering I used the simple blocker to hold back the crowd and I don't use the climber. So, might I had been successful in backrouting all 3 of your contest levels?
Quote
You are amazing, Armani! :lem-mindblown: You managed to save way more than both Icho and me. At first, I thought you were the one Icho was referring to in his post who saved two skills, but I'm guessing it might be josh. Not only are you definitely one of the best solvers, you're also a great level designer to boot! :thumbsup:
I'm flattered :-[ . I'm really glad you like my level. And, yes. You managed to backroute all my contest levels.:XD: I added some steels to block the backroute you found. I put a lot of effort into polishing puzzle as well as aesthetics. So I hope this update will lead you to intended way. Rule1 and Rule2 levels are not that difficult. Rule3 level is more difficult than those 2, but I'm quite sure it doesn't apply to you.:thumbsup:


Quote
Also I resolved Armani's Rule 1 level and it should now be 100% intended ;) (hopefully!)
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Yes now you reached 100%
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
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  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline mantha16

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2020, 12:30:08 AM »
no you are right I am not keen on Zombie levels but Namida didn't understand this and I tend to just believe whatever Namida says re lemmings lol. Basically I'd be in the cult of Namida if it was a thing.

but what your feedback proves to me is I have absolutely no idea about the difficulty of my levels as I thought Lemception was the hardest of them :D

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2020, 03:16:55 AM »
hi Willem nice to have another entry for the contest. I solved your level. Like me I prefer easier levels.

anyways here is my replay for your entry The Diving Area.

Also I entered the contest. Mine in called This Room is boiling. Like me my level is probably the easiest one of these other entries. Although it's lenghty and I had to make a 2nd version as Kaywhyn backrouted it.

Edit: never mind You changed it real quick. I'll try to solve your version 2 of it


Edit: ok I solved your version 2 of it. You had 3 jumpers, but I solved it only using 2. ok here is my replay
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 03:29:40 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline WillLem

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2020, 03:32:12 AM »
Wow! That was very quick. Just checked the solution and it's a backroute that's still possible with the new version. I'll get another update done now I guess! :forehead:

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2020, 03:59:55 AM »
Resolved Armani's R1, R2, and R3, as well as Dullstar's R1. Sorry Armani, your changes to your R1 and R3 have not prevented me from doing the exact same solution. Even though Nessy has the intended solution for your R1, I still backrouted it. I guess I really am the king of backroutes :P Your R2 should be intended now! :thumbsup:

Armani's NeoLemtris R1 V3 (click to show/hide)

Armani's Hornet Flight R2 V2 (click to show/hide)

In the case of R3, the only thing I did differently was

Armani's Marina Bay Sands R3 V2 (click to show/hide)

For Dullstar's Alice R1 V3, definitely a huge improvement over the first two versions, but I still think this is a backroute. For one thing, I use two jumpers, so it doesn't quite fit the criteria of the rule. Second, some skills left over.

I haven't looked at eric's V2 of his R1 level, as well as the three R1 levels that I wasn't able to solve yet. I will soon! Keep up the great work, everyone! These are all wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
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Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2020, 04:12:06 AM »
@WillLem, how's this for your R1 V4? Unless the leftover skill is completely optional, I would say your 3rd version with the time limit was very justified in order to enforce its use, meaning you definitely should had kept the time limit if so. Otherwise, very nice short and easy level ;)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 04:19:27 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2020, 04:21:07 AM »
yes here is my replay for version 4 very easy level even with the time limit(was 19 sec). Yes I had a walker left over too. To start in my replay I increased the RR to 99.

Offline mantha16

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2020, 04:25:33 AM »
ive watched Kaywhyn's and Armani's replays to Lemception and neither of you have done the intended solution but I consider them fair alternatives rather than backroutes so I may or may not attempt to enforce the intended solution but I'm leaning towards not at the moment.

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2020, 04:44:48 AM »
Quote
Armani's NeoLemtris R1 V3 (click to show/hide)

It seems I need to strongly enforce the upper route. :forehead: Added a fire.

Quote
Armani's Hornet Flight R2 V2 (click to show/hide)

Intended :thumbsup: This level is to showcase the trick you found.(So I can justify my harder and obscure levels using that trick. :evil:)

Quote
In the case of R3, the only thing I did differently was
Armani's Marina Bay Sands R3 V2 (click to show/hide)

Ooops, I missed the obvious backroute again. :forehead: Added OWW will hopefully fix that
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]