NeoLemmix versions of original levels for challenges

[Proxima]

After a recent discussion that I won't link to since it involved several different threads and was partly on discord, I am taking over maintenance of the NeoLemmix versions of official levels.

I have attached a zip of the current levelpacks, in the last version offered by namida. I am designating this version 0.1.0 going forward.

Please note that, for challenge purposes, this is a work in progress. I expect that I will only be making cosmetic changes that won't affect gameplay much, if at all. However, if using these levels for challenges, be aware that at the moment, I consider the packs to be a work in progress, and future changes may possibly invalidate results. When I consider the packs to be finished, I'll show that by moving the version number to 1.0.0.

Changes I definitely intend to make:

* Restoring the decorative terrain to "Call in the bomb squad" and "Save Me" (and maybe other levels, but these two stand out);
* Adding WillLem's conversions of the special graphics entrances/exits to the special graphics levels;
* Adding other official levels, where NL conversions exist (L2 Classic tribe, and NES/ZX Spectrum levels);
* Splitting the "Extra Levels" pack into separate packs for 2P, Genesis, PSP, and others.

I will also look through the packs to see if there are other changes that I feel need to be made, or changes namida has made that I disagree with If there are, I'll post about any changes I intend to make so that the community can give feedback.

[Minim]

Having been through the PSP levels, some of them have little gaps in the terrain, and some of the traps' trigger areas are not quite in the right place, particularly on one of the fire levels. Should we fix these first? Here are the levels concerned:

19 and 27: The starting area has some terrain gaps, meaning that the player can simply contain the right edge of 19 using a miner. Comparing the two together, 27's gaps are much bigger. Also the screen start of 27 is set to the exit door rather than the entrance, which will always be an unnecessary chore for the player. AFAIK the PSP version always sets the screen start at the middle of the entrance.

22: A few gaps in the terrain here as well. This time the gap (particularly the one on the bottom right corner) is too close for a miner to be able to contain the lemmings.

32: The coal trap's trigger area is placed two pixels too far to the right and too high, meaning the lems won't be killed by the trap when they fall in.

Other than that, things are looking just fine for PSP.

[ericderkovits]

I added the extra levels music tracks in the level design area. Check it out.

[Proxima]

Thanks for the look! I'm not at all familiar with the PSP version, but fortunately Luis has a playthrough of the Special levels which I can use for reference. Since we have some momentum on these levels, I'll go through them first and see what adjustments need to be made.

Changelog (click to show/hide)

1: Shrunk to 320x160 since the level was so little above this, it was worth the effort to fit it on one screen.
4: Moved some of the rock terrain pieces behind others so the landscape looks neater.
10: Adjusted trap position, now that the rope trap's trigger area has been fixed.
19: Adjusted position of traps, and fixed the pixel gaps in the starting area as Minim suggested.
20: Adjusted position of fire pit.
22: Fixed the pixel gaps in terrain chunks.
25: Removed the duplicated top row of terrain, which seems to be a mistake and looked rather ugly.
27: Fixed the pixel gaps in the large terrain mass, and fixed the screen start.
30: Adjusted position of rope traps; set hatch to no-overwrite.
31: Adjusted position of fire pit.
32: Adjusted position of fire pit.

I'm nearly ready to post these levels as finished, but first I need to decide what we're doing about the music, and there's also one small point that I can't resolve without being able to play the original levels:


(Level 32 - Gather round and break away)

Where I've circled the terrain in yellow, the platform is one pixel left of the platform below, so the lemmings can fall from this platform to the lower terrain and build there. Should this be possible or not?

[Proxima]

I've put up a temporary download for the PSP levels and music. If you just want the levels, I've attached them to this post. [EDIT: Removed attachement to fix Level 32. The fixed version is attached to my post just below.]

Please note:
* The levels expect the PSP music tracks to be in a subfolder of the music folder. (The zip linked above will automatically install them in the correct subfolder.) If you already have the PSP music tracks, please move them into a subfolder called "PSP".
* From this version on, the PSP levels are a separate pack, not part of "Extra Levels". If you already have the original levels installed, I recommend deleting the PSP rank from Extra Levels to avoid duplication.
* The dropbox link is temporary, because I am not able to guarantee permanent hosting for such a large zip. Unfortunately, it is too large for a forum attachment, so I don't know what the best solution is in this case.
* The question I raised above regarding terrain on Level 32 is still open, so that level might still change. Other levels should be final now.

[ericderkovits]

I have the PSP lemmings rom for PPSSPP emulator but unfornutely I only made it through level 11. if you gave me time I could continue playing on this emulator and see what happens in level 32.

[ericderkovits]

Regarding the level 32 PSP Gather round and break away. NO the lemmings fall straight down the shaft. never hit the bottom floor. They can NOT build from the lower level. I finally got to level 32 on PSP level using the PSP rom in PPSSPP. There needs to be a pixel change either the bottom level left 1 or the upper level right one so the lemmings can never build from the lower level.

[Minim]

Noticed a bug already. The level name "A Bridge over Lemming Slaughter" doesn't match the name on the levels.nxmi file "A Bridge over Lemming Slaugter", therefore a group of popups appear when loading up NL. The latter needs to be updated.

[Minim]

A few screen starts need fixing in Holiday Lemmings, having just completed the pack. The levels in question are:

Hail 9
Hail 10: First entrance is the far left, which the screen start doesn't view, and they're the only group prone to the death drop below.
Blitz 10 and Hail 14: Screen is in the middle where the exit is. Preferably the right entrance for both levels, as these lems die quicker than the left if no skills are assigned.
Blitz 6

I must point out that Hail 12 is a tad more interesting, even though it's not saying that much. You can't just simply build over each gap or they'll die to the ceiling above. You'll need to be more creative with where to assign the builders.

[ccexplore]

That's a good point actually.  There are definitely a decent number of levels that would be noticeably affected by the ceiling differences.  (Noticeable as in, the player almost certainly will run into the difference as they try to solve the level, or even just merely let it run on it own for a little bit; they don't need to go out of their way to get lemmings to reach the ceiling boundary.)  Are we leaving the levels as-is and let the differences stand, or will we try to add or modify the terrain slightly to help turn around the lemmings that would otherwise step over the boundary and die?

[Proxima]

I'm definitely open to discussion on this, but at the moment my plans are:

* Specifically for the Genesis levels, add terrain wherever necessary to prevent lemmings hitting the ceiling. (I believe namida has already done this where it's essential, but there may be more places where it would be preferable.) These levels were made for one specific version of Lemmings and that version has solid ceiling behaviour; some levels (most infamously Lemmings' Ark) depend on this in their intended solutions.
* For other levels, leave it and accept deadly ceiling behaviour. These levels already exist on several platforms that have varying behaviour, so there isn't one and only one correct behaviour.

[Proxima]

Anyhow, let's do Holiday next, since Minim's started us on that, and it shouldn't need much work.

I've attached the current version of the Holiday pack, which has these changes from namida's version:

* Ranks are in the order Flurry, Blizzard, Frost, Hail (i.e. '93 then '94).
* Rank 2 is named Blizzard, which I understand is the original name from the Amiga version (it fits the theme naming, anyhow). Obviously, when referring to this rank in challenge topics, both "Blizzard" and "Blitz" are acceptable since neither can be confused with any other rank.
* As Minim suggested, I've changed the screen start locations on Blizzard 6, Hail 9 and Hail 10. (Of these, only Hail 10 is in Redux. I checked Redux and we had already made this change there.)

I have not changed, nor do I intend to:

* Steel on Flurry 6 "Lemming Snowfall" is actually steel.
* Blizzard 3 "Check Your Hints" has only one exit -- the fake exits are just removed.
* Hail 12 "Merry Christmaze" is harder (but still possible) due to the deadly ceiling.

Changes that I am considering or intend to make:

* Should we combine this and Xmas 91/92 into a single pack?
* On Frost 13 "2 minutes before midnight", I should restore the original level width, since the abrupt cut-off doesn't look good. There may be other cases, but this is the only one that stood out on a quick skim through the pack.

[ccexplore]

These levels already exist on several platforms that have varying behavior

Can someone remind me which platforms have deadly ceiling?  I don't remember any details confidently off top of my head, but I want to say that the versions where ceiling does not turn around lemmings, typically just let the lemming pass through (ie. they can walk up and over the ceiling boundary).  But I could be remembering wrong.  Lemmings 2 definitely have deadly ceiling (and deadly all other boundaries) even for "standard" versions like Amiga and DOS, but I'm specifically talking about the games (and their ports) before L2.

[Proxima]

I've asked namida whether he'd be willing to make a tool that will set all hatches and exits in a level folder to no-overwrite (making them appear behind terrain). If namida is able to do this, then I intend to use it for all these packs. The main reason is that with no-overwrite off, new terrain (from builder bricks) disappears behind objects, making it harder to see what's happening. As far as I'm concerned, it should always be on for these objects in NL, unless there is a very specific reason -- and I don't think that applies to any of the original levels.

Can someone remind me which platforms have deadly ceiling?

I don't know that myself (I don't even know for Mac Lemmings, the version I grew up with!) but it's probably documented somewhere on the forum. I'll have a look.

[kaywhyn]

Wait, you mean to say that you don't remember what happened on Mayhem 28 Mind the Step? Well, I can provide the answer, as I just tested it. In that level, the lemming simply turns around, so the ceiling is not deadly on the Macintosh version. I think most of us here are familiar with the Dos version, myself included, and we know that the ceiling is not deadly there.