Author Topic: WillLem plays Lovely 6-10  (Read 910 times)

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Offline Simon

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WillLem plays Lovely 6-10
« on: May 19, 2020, 07:46:34 am »
(Split from NeoLemmix 2-player mode suggestion topic by namida)

Split further into:
Spawn Interval fixed per level, 2020
Progress to next level without getting back to menu



WillLem: What sucks in Lix?

Please be frank, I enjoy rants. I don't mind trashing existing work in light of long-term better solutions. Giga's Lix editor rant was among the most helpful posts in the last 3 years.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 02:57:26 pm by Simon »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: What doesn't WillLem like about Lix?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2020, 10:45:18 am »
Not sure whether WillLem ever tried Lix to be fair.  Though I strongly suspect Lix might be a non-starter simply due to not using any graphics from the original games, for copyright reasons.  You'll note how, well, particular WillLem is when it comes to graphics, even NeoLemmix he had objections with the graphic choices that were more aligned to DOS Lemmings rather than Amiga which seems to be his preference.

In any case, for multiplayer over network, there is literally no choice right now that are using the original games' graphics, so I would suggest putting aside that preference and give Lix a try anyway for anyone curious about multiplayer.  Maybe someone should host a multiplayer session sometime soon?

Offline Simon

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Re: What doesn't WillLem like about Lix?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 02:36:29 pm »
Even if it's Lix's lack of proprietary Lemmings assets, it would be nice to know for sure about that motivation to not try Lix. :lix-grin: Then I can leave this thread behind in mind.

I still hope to learn about deeper issues than purely the assets.

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Online WillLem

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[Video] WillLem's Initial Thoughts on Lix
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2020, 12:17:29 am »
Since Simon has recently asked what I think of Lix during the multiplayer discussion, I thought it would be helpful to make a video documenting some initial thoughts/reactions as I don't have a massive amount of experience with it as yet.

Link to the video.

Hope this is helpful! Here's a summary of the key points in the video:

+ User interface is inviting, intuitive and self-integrated
+ New players can adapt fairly quickly thanks to the helper text on the in-game panel
+ Customisation is easy
+ Online multiplayer! :thumbs-up:

- Gameplay seems a little bit slow, I ended up playing with Fast Forward on quite a lot
- No release rate control - or if there is, it isn't obvious
- Always going back to the level select screen breaks game flow quite a bit, although I suppose there can be positives for this in that it reminds you to take a break, and is good for playing single levels within packs.

EDIT: Just had a look through the Lix folder and discovered that most if not all graphical elements of the interface (and the Lix themselves) are completely customisable! I'll likely have a play with it at some point. :thumbsup:

Question: what are "Scale 150/200 and 300" for?

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: [Video] WillLem's Initial Thoughts on Lix
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2020, 10:07:30 am »
- No release rate control - or if there is, it isn't obvious

There is indeed no variable Release Rate/Spawn Interval anymore in Lix. I think the runner skill is meant to be a partial substitute.
There is a thread with reasons for the culling.

- Always going back to the level select screen breaks game flow quite a bit, although I suppose there can be positives for this in that it reminds you to take a break, and is good for playing single levels within packs.

If I remember correctly there was another player who wished to progress without getting back to menu as well for a better flow.

Offline Minim

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Re: [Video] WillLem's Initial Thoughts on Lix
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2020, 11:41:06 am »
Question: what are "Scale 150/200 and 300" for?

See here. I volunteered to create nicely looking upscaled versions of the game's icons in different sizes. The Scale 150/200 etc. were there to suit different computer resolutions.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Online WillLem

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Re: [Video] WillLem's Initial Thoughts on Lix
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2020, 03:11:10 pm »
There is indeed no variable Release Rate/Spawn Interval anymore in Lix. I think the runner skill is meant to be a partial substitute.
There is a thread with reasons for the culling.

This is a shame, really, because just about everything else about Lix that I've seen so far is pretty darn good!

If I remember correctly there was another player who wished to progress without getting back to menu as well for a better flow.

Hopefully, then, it might be something that gets looked at sometime. It's not a major issue, of course.

See here. I volunteered to create nicely looking upscaled versions of the game's icons in different sizes. The Scale 150/200 etc. were there to suit different computer resolutions.

Are they applied by default or user-selected?

Online WillLem

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Re: WillLem's thoughts about Lix
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 02:05:22 pm »
It's come to my attention that Lix doesn't have a timer - I'm guessing a decision was made to cull this as well as the release rate?

If so, these would probably be my biggest turn-offs for Lix generally (i.e. no timer, no release rate). I like to know how long it took me to solve a level even if the timer isn't a factor, and release rate is useful for way more than just speeding up the stream once the level is solved...

Having said that, I can see that Lix is quite far removed from Lemmings as a game and isn't trying to be a Lemmings clone, despite its obvious similarities. So, it's that bit easier to accept that there are glaring differences between the two based on game philosophy. I'm just unlikely to get into it as much, is all. Which is a shame, because it genuinely seems like a decent game/engine.

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: WillLem's thoughts about Lix
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 02:14:06 pm »
It's come to my attention that Lix doesn't have a timer - I'm guessing a decision was made to cull this as well as the release rate?

Yeah exactly, there are no time limits. If you are interested in time taken, you could still activate the option to count phyus etc. Phyus (physics units) can be used for meassuring the time as well, there are 15 phyus/per second generally, game starts at 45 phyus, first lix spawns at 60 phyus.



Reply by WillLem:
Ah, brilliant! OK - this is super. :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 03:53:05 pm by Simon »

Offline RubiX

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Re: WillLem's thoughts about Lix
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 02:31:21 pm »
I remember stumbling across Lix because of my love for 2-player Amiga lemmings (me and my brother spent so many hours in the 90s side-by-side on the same monitor with 2 mouses connected to the Amiga)

Sooo years ago, I started searching the web to see if anyone had created some kind of lemmings 2player remake playable over the internet.   That is when I found L++ (as Simon first had named it before Lix)

Being able to play a close approximation of lemmings 1v1 with our own PC's on LAN or across the internet was exactly what I was looking for.     Finding you could have even more players than just 1v1 was like icing on the cake!

So with that being said, it is everything I hoped it would be and more, and continues to add more features.    The game was always meant for multiplayer as I remember Simon's early releases,  all the single player stuff  is just how it evolved over time and was not even meant to be in Lix,  and there is now a massive amount of content made for it over the years.    So you are getting much more in this game than was ever meant to be.     

So people looking to get that original multiplayer feel of lemmings are certainly in for a treat when they find out about Lix, just like I was.    Multiplayer is its main target audience still in my opinion.   The way it was initially designed to be :)         :thumbsup:



I remember stumbling across Lix because of my love for 2-player Amiga lemmings (me and my brother spent so many hours in the 90s side-by-side on the same monitor with 2 mouses connected to the Amiga)... Multiplayer is its main target audience still in my opinion. The way it was initially designed to be :)

Reply by WillLem:

It's the same thing that's sparked my interest in Lix as well. Interesting to learn that this was its primary function.

Remainder of WillLem's reply
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 03:56:05 pm by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: WillLem's thoughts about Lix
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2020, 05:14:53 pm »
I'll reply later tonight in detail.

I don't mind introducing more statistics during or after play, such as time. Interesting that you value this so much, I wouldn't have known.

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Offline Simon

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Re: [Video] WillLem's Initial Thoughts on Lix
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2020, 11:28:28 pm »
Quote from: WillLem
Link to the video.
Hope this is helpful! Here's a summary of the key points in the video:

This is incredibly valuable. It's very hard to observe first-time use otherwise. Thanks!

Quote
- Gameplay seems a little bit slow, I ended up playing with Fast Forward on quite a lot

This comes from lag.

Lix is supposed to run at 60 fps with 15 phyu/s. You seem to reach 15 to 20 fps and roughly 12 phyu/s, which increase to 15 to 20 phyu/s (matching fps) with the normal fast-forward (intended to run at 1 phyu/frame, or 60 phyu/s). Turbo-fast-forward performs 9 phyus per frame.

This is a problem. I don't know why you have lag this bad. Is your machine 15 years old?

If it's a reasonably current Windows 10 machine, maybe the lag comes from outdated Allegro 5 libraries that I ship with Lix. I should update those, they're already 3-4 years old. I'll tell you once I do that!

Quote from: WillLem
Question: what are "Scale 150/200 and 300" for?

Depending on your resolution, the game wants to load its icons at 100% (= base data/images directory), 150%, 200%, or 300% magnification. It picks the largest that still fits. This depends mainly on the vertical component of the resolution.

There is much more to reply to. Until later! :lix-grin:

-- Simon
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:46:07 pm by Simon »

Online WillLem

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Re: WillLem's thoughts about Lix
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 03:21:22 pm »
Lots to reply to, I apologise if this post is a bit loooooong...!

(Which is probably really wierd for you guys to read, as most Lix players know I made a big level pack, but a lot of the reason for my map-making in Lix is that I absolutely love the ease and speed of the editor) IT IS A FUN EDITOR

I plan to do a video making a level in Lix soon!

Me not playing a lot of community maps has nothing to do with 'not wanting to play their levels' but it has everything to do with the real feeling of accomplishment and reward that I spoke of above.

This is a shame: community content is a great thing, and certainly enhances the experience of using platforms like NeoLemmix and Lix. Maybe give it another look sometime.

This is incredibly valuable. It's very hard to observe first-time use otherwise. Thanks!

You're welcome! I'm glad it was useful, and I will do some more; particularly one using the editor for the first time.

This comes from lag... I don't know why you have lag this bad. Is your machine 15 years old?

Confirmed. The machine I did the LP on is from 2010. I recently bought a 2019 laptop and Lix runs perfectly on it; they move faster and the controls are snappier as well.

I guess the runner's permanent future speed, after you achieved the bunching, throws wrenches in your ideas?

Can the Lix Runner be cancelled with a Walker? Also, does it speed up all skills or just the walking state?

Quote from: ccexplore
Lix is supposed to run at 60 fps with 15 phyu/s. You seem to reach 15 to 20 fps and roughly 12 phyu/s, which increase to 15 to 20 phyu/s (matching fps) with the normal fast-forward (intended to run at 1 phyu/frame, or 60 phyu/s). Turbo-fast-forward performs 9 phyus per frame.

This is a problem. I don't know why you have lag this bad. Is your machine 15 years old?

It's also possible there are other programs running in the background that help contribute to this lag?  Hopefully not the recording software itself for making the video.  Maybe a less obvious program?

The game runs slow on my laptop even without OBS, but I don't doubt that OBS was contributing to some of the on-screen lag. My laptop does struggle to process games and screen-recording software simultaneously, hence why I need a new one...

Offline Simon

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Re: WillLem plays Lovely 6-10
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2020, 02:07:48 pm »
I split off everything about the spawn interval into Spawn Interval fixed per level, 2020.

Forestidia created Progress to next level without getting back to menu, thanks!

WillLem's graphical lag is from the old machine, his new machine runs Lix well. That's great to hear.

Can the Lix Runner be cancelled with a Walker? Also, does it speed up all skills or just the walking state?

Cannot be cancelled. It's a permanent ability like climber.

The runner walks faster, and the runner jumps higher and further. Nothing else is accelerated.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 02:57:37 pm by Simon »