Author Topic: [SUG][PLAYER] Surfaces/Fields that Prevent Skill Assignment  (Read 1205 times)

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Offline DireKrow

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[SUG][PLAYER] Surfaces/Fields that Prevent Skill Assignment
« on: April 07, 2020, 11:08:54 PM »
While I was reading the topic on the viability of L3D blocks (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4513), one that was brought up which showed some potential was ice / slippery blocks. For those unfamiliar, how they work in L3D is when a lemming steps on a slippery block, they slide along the surface in a forward direction until they reach the end of the slippery surface. During this time, they cannot be assigned any skills that would require them to stand still. So while there is outwardly a "wheeeee, sliding on ice~" factor, mechanically what they're mostly used for is to block skill usage when lemmings are standing in certain positions.

What I want to propose is a more general case. Rather than having it be ice or slippery surfaces in particular, I think there is potential in NL including some kind of terrain type, surface, object or field which prevents lemmings from being assigned new skills while they're standing on it, inside it, etc. The main applications include:

* As a puzzle element. A puzzle with an obstacle that would normally be trivial to overcome can be made more difficult or interesting by forcing the player to take a different route. A simple example: a small ledge can be built or fenced up, but if there's an anti-skill surface/field at the base of the ledge, the player will have to find another way (e.g. getting a lemming atop the ledge and mining down).

* As a way to prevent shortcuts, or to cover backroutes. This also provides an alternative that would allow the designer to keep these skills in play while preventing their use at this particular obstacle. Continuing from the above, perhaps the designer really wants to use a fencer in another part of the puzzle, but its presence allows them to shortcut to the exit through a ledge. They could place a surface/field at the base of the ledge that blocks this course of action.

In L3D, ice doesn't prevent the usage of bombers. In fact, some puzzles make use this fact in their intended solutions by having the player bomb to destroy a piece of ice, creating a surface they can use other skills from later. To that end, I'm most strongly in favor of something like how NL's one way walls work, where it's an object field that is visibly applied to terrain. If a lemming is standing on it, their skills are blocked. However, this terrain can still be destroyed (unless it's steel), which means an additional avenue in puzzle designs is having the player find a way to destroy the terrain to restore the usage of their skills in certain places.

Another possibility that the affected surfaces could become unclimeable/unshimmiable. That could be a whole discussion in itself.

What are people's thoughts?
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Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][PLAYER] Surfaces/Fields that Prevent Skill Assignment
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2020, 12:13:37 AM »
L3D also allows the assignment of permanent skills while sliding. I could see valid arguments either way on this one for NL.
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Offline Proxima

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Re: [SUG][PLAYER] Surfaces/Fields that Prevent Skill Assignment
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2020, 12:26:15 AM »
I think this is a great idea, and I think the best way to implement it would be to divorce it entirely from the "slippery terrain" implementation*, and have it as a field (maybe a "poison cloud" indicated by purple speckles?) that prevents skill assignments inside the field. You could still have the "destroy terrain to restore skill usage" effect by destroying terrain under the field -- but the initial skill assignment to achieve this would have to be outside the field.

I can see this having a lot of puzzle usage.

* In discord, namida made a good point about this: the snow tileset already has icy terrain that is not slippery, so if we introduce slippery terrain now, the existing ice will be confusing.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: [SUG][PLAYER] Surfaces/Fields that Prevent Skill Assignment
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2020, 12:46:01 AM »
I'm not sure I would make use of this, but it sounds potentially interesting.

I don't think it would make sense to have it make the surfaces unclimbable/unshimmiable, however, simply because that's already quite easy to do due to how those skills function when encountering angled terrain.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [SUG][PLAYER] Surfaces/Fields that Prevent Skill Assignment
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2020, 09:24:01 AM »
I'm also in favour of this; however, I would indeed like to see it implemented specifically as ice/slippery blocks. I always prefer "flavoured" explanations for certain mechanics (e.g. "trampoline") over purely game-rules-mechanical objects, like (anti) splat pads or one-way fields. :P

Ice is an established object in the L2 Polar tileset within the Lemmings 2-engine, so we already would have existing graphics for this, rather than creating some arbitrary "you-can't-assign-skills-here-because-we-say-so" zone.

I hadn't thought of applying this to Climbers and Shimmiers as well, since it's never used this way in L3D. But having an option to make straight walls unclimbable (because steel of course doesn't do that, even though one could assume it would, flavour-wise) would definitely be helpful as well, and go perfectly with the "slippery" explanation (=the Climber can't get a grip on the wall, same for the Shimmier at the ceiling).

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During this time, they cannot be assigned any skills that would require them to stand still.

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L3D also allows the assignment of permanent skills while sliding. I could see valid arguments either way on this one for NL.

My analogy in that L3D-objects thread was "turning Walkers into Swimmers", meaning you can't assign any skill to a lemming on slippery terrain that you couldn't also assign to Swimmers. Meaning: Bombers, Stoners, and Cloners. L3D indeed has levels that invole bombing on ice (in fact, the very first level that introduces the mechanic, "Alpine Assault Course", is all about that). So it definitely should be possible to assign some skills to these lemmings.

A strictly-game-mechanical "no-assignment-zone" would not logically permit any skill assignment, including Bombers, Stoners, and Cloners, whereas ice, as it already works in L3D, would.
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