Author Topic: [Loap / Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.05 update]  (Read 34214 times)

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Offline namida

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Back in 1995, Lemmings 3D was released. I don't recall for sure exactly when I got it myself - but I absolutely loved it. Within weeks of discovering LemEdit, I was constantly searching the internet for any signs of a level editor - but none existed. This was something that stuck with me though - I always wanted to create my own Lemmings 3D level pack.

The first sign of hope came a few years back, when Pooty documented the level format and released a custom level he'd created. Unfortunately, that was as far as it went - no editor arose as a result of this, nor did any further custom content. At the time, I wouldn't've had any chance of making a decent level editor myself - I could have made sense of the format, sure, but I wouldn't've been able to actually do anything useful with it.

But, since then, I've gotten much better. And earlier this year, I decided - since no one else was making an L3D editor, it was time for me to do it. Thus, L3DEdit was born. Of course, it's not much use having an editor if I'm not going to do anything with it. At first, I just created a couple of odd levels, but I quickly decided - nope, I'm making a whole pack.

And so here we have it. The latest entry in the Lemmings Plus series, and the first entry since the release of NeoLemmix that's been on any engine other than NeoLemmix; introducing Lemmings Plus 3D. A pack of 80 new levels for 3D Lemmings.

Since there's only so much that's known about L3D at this stage, and even less that's editable, I decided not to go to my usual extent of reskinning the whole game, etc. The ranks are still "Fun, Tricky, Taxing, Mayhem". There's very little in the way of custom graphics - though there is one thing in there. For the most part, this is really just a level pack, not a full-blown content pack.

Download links:
Loap version: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?program=54 (Always links to latest version)
DOS L3D version: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=398 (Permalink to V1.03, the last version for DOS L3D)

To set up this pack for Loap (recommended):
1. Get Loap
2. Download the pack above and extract it to Loap's "data" folder.

To set up this pack for DOS L3D:
1. Get a working copy of Lemmings 3D
2. If you aren't using the pre-patched downloads from the above topics, use L3DUtils to apply the music patch. You can skip this step if you're using CD audio music, but it should be applied if you're using soundcard or MIDI music. (My recommendation: MIDI + an AWE32 soundfont.)
3. Copy the unique graphic files from Lemmings 3D Winterland, into Lemmings 3D's "GFX" folder. You can download them here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4274.msg75949#msg75949
4. Download the pack above and extract it to the base L3D folder.
5. Optionally, use L3DUtils' "Unlock All Levels" button to create a save file with all levels unlocked.

All levels in Fun, Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem will be replaced with the Lemmings Plus 3D levels. Practice levels are not affected and will remain unchanged.

The difficulty varies throughout the pack, and I've gone for a "something for everyone" approach here. Fun consists mostly of fairly-easy 5-of-everything levels (though these do get harder as you get further into Fun). Tricky contains puzzles similar in difficulty to the first half of the official game, while Taxing contains puzzles similar in difficulty to the second half. And Mayhem goes fully brutal, delivering challenges harder than anything the official levels throw at you.

Similarly, the "something for everyone" approach does mean there's a couple of levels that may not be the most popular by modern standards. It comes down to "some people do enjoy these levels", and that I remember enjoying them back when I first played, even if I wouldn't now. These definitely will not come anywhere close to being every level in the pack - there's maybe five or six levels in the whole pack that fall under this.

If you'd like to share your replays, you can use L3DUtils to save them (as long as you're running L3D via DOSBox in Windows, that is). I encourage you to share your replays, especially if you're not sure if a solution was intended.

Intended solutions for the DOS version are available either as Youtube videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFyAqIY6HWJ6NunGfl4PiUjM
And some challenge solutions here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFxGOjtxHGyCWeF5N026amzd
Or as L3DR files (use L3DUtils to load these in-game): https://www.neolemmix.com/replay/LP3D_1.02_Replays.zip

Intended solutions for the Loap version are available as LPRP files: https://www.neolemmix.com/replay/LP3D_Loap_Replays.zip (made using Loap 0.0.26.0 and LP3D V1.05)

To confirm the music is correctly patched:
Note that these notes assume soundcard audio. If you're using CD audio, then the levels specified as "should be a remix of", are instead "should be the same as". Do both tests, together they also rule out a common mistake when appying the patch.
- Fun 9 "Spacewalkers" should have a remix of the music in Fun 7 "Star Wars"; while Fun 12 "The Armageddon Machine" should have a completely different music.
- Fun 6 "Indoor Maze" should have a remix of the music in Fun 2 "Security Walls"; while Fun 15 "The Mansion" should have a completely different music.

Huge thanks to:
- Pooty, for his work on figuring out the L3D formats
- Pooty (again) and Nessy, for pre-release testing
- Clockwork Games, Psygnosis, etc for Lemmings 3D itself; I know not everyone agrees, but I consider it probably the best game in the Lemmings series outside of the L1-style games
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 03:08:14 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 09:14:35 PM »
Saved lemming records (click to show/hide)


« Last Edit: December 27, 2023, 09:08:20 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 04:11:33 AM »
I've set up a playlist for intended solution videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFyAqIY6HWJ6NunGfl4PiUjM

I'm still in the process of uploading all the videos (I've got all 80 recorded). EDIT: All 80 uploaded now, though of course some may need to be replaced if later backroute fixes are needed. They've been scheduled so that Fun 1's solution video will release on September 1st, and then one level per day thereafter until all of them are out. I'll most likely post the actual replay files once the videos finish releasing.

Do note that just because your solution doesn't match the video doesn't automatically mean it's a backroute. Some levels are known to have multiple acceptable solutions (eg. "Mysterious Artifacts", "Wafer-Thin"), these videos will generally show the original intended solution. Likewise, if a solution here seems really hard for the position, it may be that that was the original intended solution, but there were easier solutions found that I felt didn't warrant fixing, and the level's position is taking into account those solutions.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 06:22:18 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2019, 08:55:25 AM »
I've now got (initial) saved lemming records for every level, which I've listed in the second post. Feel free to try and beat them. ;) There are a few that I suspect are improveable.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Pooty

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 09:57:43 PM »
Spacewalkers has been improved to 34/40. I have attached a replay for the solution.

Edit: I've also improved Star Wars to 38/40.
Edit 2: Pac-Lems has been improved to 57/60
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:36:44 PM by Pooty »
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 02:38:11 AM »
I've improved Luck Shot (Mayhem 74) to a whopping 48/80 (up from 27/80!!!). The replay would spoil the normal solution to this level as well, which hasn't been revealed yet, so I won't post this replay publicly yet either - but I've sent a copy to the pre-release testers.

I can't rule out for sure that it's possible to save even more than this, though I'm pretty sure I've at least hit the limit of what anything resembling the intended solution can achieve - and I even went to the extent of modifying the replay with a hex editor to see if frame-perfection could squeeze out another lemming (it seems it cannot).

EDIT: Nope. Found a way to improve it further to 50/80.

I suspect at this point, Detour Shot and Aerial Assault are the most likely levels to be possible to squeeze out some more lemmings on, as they're very much the type where how much you save comes down to how optimized your solution is overall rather than finding a specific trick to save more - and these tend to be the levels where I'm not too great at squeezing out every last lemming.

EDIT: This one was more an oversight than an impressive new result as such, but Deathspring Tunnel improved to 25/30.
EDIT: Rapid Drive improved to 58/80.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 09:00:19 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2019, 08:26:42 PM »
Detour Shot improved to 15/40. I suspect it's possible to improve further. So far, this is just a very optimized version of the intended solution.

EDIT: With a bit of clever thinking, I was able to further optimize this to 18/40. Some timing tweaks might be able to squeeze out 19, but I think we're close to the limit here.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 08:49:01 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2019, 10:58:07 PM »
Although the playlist hasn't quite finished releasing yet, I figure it's close enough, and since I'm doing general updates to the Lemmings Plus series at the moment - replay files are now available, see first post.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2019, 10:47:01 PM »
I've started playing through this pack, here's the first video in the series:

https://youtu.be/z-uVn5HVox8

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 09:32:49 PM »
V1.01 uploaded.

Has a backroute fix for Taxing 42 "The King's Test". Has visual fixes / improvements to Fun 5 "The Grand Gallery" (this one could also enable some solutions that didn't work before, though should not break any existing solutions), Fun 17 "Quadcore" and Fun 20 "Arctic Mission".

Existing replays should still work on all levels. Download link in first post. Working on updating the Youtube solution videos to reflect these changes.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 07:27:20 PM »
Here's one that really requires knowing L3D's mechanics (glitches and otherwise) to achieve, including having to deal with an undesirable effect of a glitch at one point too.

Every lemming saved on Fun 19 "The Side Act". ^_^
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 10:01:04 PM »
I've made a playlist of videos for challenge solutions. I'll upload more over time, but for now, there's a few of the particularly interesting max-saved solutions from Fun. (I was going to start recording Tricky too, but the only particularly interesting one is on a level that I have a strong suspicion can be improved thanks to a recent glitch discovery.) Specifically so far, it has the 39/40 solutions for "Resist The Temptation" and "Quadcore", and the 40/40 solutions for "The Armageddon Machine", "Sea of Sugar" and "The Side Act". (I figured that 40/40 on "Security Walls" and "The Grand Gallery" are too trivial to be worth uploading.)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFxGOjtxHGyCWeF5N026amzd
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2019, 07:18:53 PM »
Longboy improved... to 10/10!

EDIT: And as I suspected for a while was possible but wasn't having much luck getting to work - but finally did - Blazing The Trail improved to 57/60.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 08:21:13 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 10:27:27 PM »
The Claw improved to 48/60, not sure how I overlooked this before.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 11:52:05 PM »
I'm going to need to ask for some hints for Taxing 45 "Deathspring Tunnel".

Here's my current thinking, might be useful for providing a hint towards where my thinking is going wrong:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I feel trapped in a logical hole from which there is no escape. I must be missing something, maybe some sort of behaviour of 3D Lemmings that I am not aware of or do not understand.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2020, 12:41:41 AM »
Spoiler-tagging my whole response.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Deathspring Tunnel" is one of those difficulty-spike levels; the next few should be a bit easier. :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 06:21:28 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2020, 07:15:25 PM »
I've also updated the 2nd post in the topic with hints for all Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem levels. Feel free to refer to it if you get stuck in the future (though you're welcome to ask for more hints if those ones aren't enough).

Please be aware: Opening the hint list will spoil level names (though each level's hint is individuall spoiler tagged). Also, any given level's hint may contain spoilers for earlier levels.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2020, 10:25:07 PM »
Been looking forward to this. Lemmings 3D was my first (and only) lemmings game as a kid. Coming back to it has been fun, even if wrangling the camera and relearning the nuances of the mechanics has been difficult.

Finished the Fun difficulty. L3DRs attached.

Level comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least favourite):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 10:33:46 PM by DireKrow »
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Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2020, 08:34:40 PM »
Just improved Aerial Assault from 59/80 to 66/80 - all turners, blockers and bombers are used, but no other lemmings are lost besides those.

I also uploaded videos for the interesting max-saveds in Mayhem: 46/50 on "Flying Sweets", 18/40 on "Detour Shot", 50/80 on "Luck Shot", 66/80 on "Aerial Assault" and 72/80 on "Winter Dynasty".
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 09:10:26 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2020, 08:49:58 AM »
I finished the Tricky difficulty, so time for more thoughts. L3DRs attatched.

A general comment which applies to all of these is that they're memorable. Even though I played through them over a few days, I had no problem remembering which level was which just from their name. That's a good sign. Overall, I'm thoroughly enjoying this pack so far.

Level Comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll be busy over the next couple of days, but I look forward to getting started on Taxing soon. Particularly since you've indicated on the discord that it has many of your favourite levels from the entire pack.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 09:06:50 AM by DireKrow »
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Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2020, 02:33:04 AM »
The Claw improved to 50/60.
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Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2020, 07:15:51 PM »
The Claw improved to 50/60.

And now to 54/60. :)

I think this is the limit. 55/60 would need either an additional climber or an additional basher as far as I can tell. (Or an additional builder, but that's too easy. :P)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 07:24:16 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2020, 02:58:53 AM »
I finished Taxing. Overall, it was the best rank so far. Lots of good puzzles. The pack is really hitting it stride.

Level comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least favourite):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
LOTY 2020 Winner
My NeoLemmix Levels: The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.02 update]
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2020, 08:28:32 PM »
Uploaded an update, V1.02. This fixes backroutes in a few late-Taxing / early-Mayhem levels (and one misc fix).

Fixed levels (click to show/hide)

Download: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=396 (perma-link to V1.02)
You can simply extract this over the top of your existing copy of the pack.

Solution replays have been updated as well, see the first post. The solution videos have been replaced where necessary as well.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 08:54:41 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2020, 08:46:23 AM »
V1.03 released. This fixes backroutes on the following levels:
- Mayhem 68 "Color Display"
- Mayhem 69 "Breaking The Routine"
- Mayhem 71 "Kingdom Of Chaos"
- Mayhem 73 "The Grand Arch"
- Mayhem 77 "Winter Dynasty"
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2020, 09:01:07 AM »
An improvement to a level where previously the save requirement was (thought to be) the max - 46/50 on The Grand Arch.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2020, 05:47:10 AM »
After much brain-frying, I have finished Mayhem. It was a thrilling journey.

Level comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least favourite):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Overall, this pack was everything I had hoped it would be and more. Thanks so much for making this and allowing me to relive some of my childhood in a new way. I hope to use this as inspiration for some of my own L3D levels eventually.

I'm going back to the world of NeoLemmix for now, but would be interested in going through this pack for Skills You Can't Live Without at some point.
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My NeoLemmix Levels: The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2020, 09:11:57 AM »
Started on Skills You Can't Live Without tonight and got some results for the first half of Fun:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's believed that all of these are maxed aside from, perhaps, the builders in Fun 5.

Attached is a pack of replays justifying all of these results.
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My NeoLemmix Levels: The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2020, 09:05:53 AM »
Finished Skills You Can't Live Without for Fun:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The total for Fun is 1 Blocker, 33 Turners 32 Turners, 39 Builders.

Pac-Lems is the only one I feel is improvable in this batch (EDIT: It was improved! See below). Lots of cool replays this time, though. Would recommend 0 Digger Armageddon Machine, 0 Turner Quadcore, and all of 0 Turner, 0 Climber and 0 Blocker for The Side Act.

Attached is a pack of replays justifying all of these results. Thanks to namida for contributing some!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 07:40:59 PM by DireKrow »
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My NeoLemmix Levels: The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2020, 10:38:19 AM »
PacLems was indeed improvable, to 3 turners. (I don't see any room for improvement over 3 builders.) This involves some big-time glitch abuse, though.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2020, 08:17:33 PM »
^ While not an actual improvement on the result, I can now make this a glitchless 3 turners. Major oversight on my part yesterday.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [Loap / Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.05 update]
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2023, 11:56:49 PM »
Hello namida,

I have completed up to the Tricky rank, so I'm just going to drop off my replays and provide some feedback. I also have a LP of the pack. Great pack so far btw! :thumbsup:

LP link here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJt1hv6lxgiu3m52_OSSGHaE Enjoy! :P

General Feedback

Lemmings Plus 3D is another custom level pack in the series by namida but this time for the game Lemmings 3D, not for NL. There are 80 brand new levels, 20 each in 4 main ranks, with the rank names being the exact same as the ones in the base game: Fun, Tricky, Taxing, and Mayhem. There are actually 100 levels in total, but the other 20 are the exact same ones as the Practice levels you can play in the base game itself. I am fairly new to the game of L3D myself, having never played it until my LP of it 1.5 years ago last summer. Since then, I haven't touched the game itself and therefore my memory of the mechanics is quite hazy.

Same with being completely new to the Loap engine, which is an engine developed by namida to allow you to play L3D and any custom content for the game, similar to NL for custom Lemmings content. It's also similar in that like NL, it has quality of life features, such as time skipping, frame stepping, and rewinding. Even without these features, Lemmings 3D isn't as bad or frustrating in the execution due to it being block-based, but they're still very nice to have, as they certainly beat having to fully restart the level and then watching the replay and then making sure to interrupt the game before the point of the screw-up.

To familiarize myself with Loap, I used the Lemmings 3D Winterland levels as a warm-up to get myself comfortable with the Loap controls. Though it's only 6 levels long, it was enough to get myself quickly in tune with the engine in preparation for LP3D. I can also say that it's a great engine, even if I still occasionally have a lot of hiccups in regards to the fiddly camera controls and movement :laugh:

namida's pack also explores plenty of things that the makers of L3D didn't, particularly the 3D aspect of levels. Hence, his pack has taught me a lot of things I didn't even know was possible with the L3D engine.

Fun Rank Feedback

The first rank of the pack, these should generally be not much problem for anyone, especially as the rank consists mostly of X-of-everythings, with a few that aren't but even those aren't super difficult. Some are harder than the former, yes, but again the pack doesn't reach its true nastiness in the difficulty in this rank.

Some of my replays are a bit different than what is seen in the LP, as I was unfortunate in that I wasn't able to back up my Loap data and my replays for the Fun rank before my hard drive got corrupted. As such, I tried to recreate them as closely as possible, though obviously the details and timings differ slightly.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I must say that I'm quite impressed with this first rank, as I think it's quite well-done and well-rounded, containing a variety of puzzles, some with a few special gimmicks here and there. The variety is certainly what makes the rank really interesting. Now, I haven't yet made any level pack myself, but it tends to be quite difficult to make an interesting first rank. Namida has managed to make the Fun rank interesting throughout the whole ordeal. As he has explained in this thread, he went for a "something for everyone" when making the pack, even if it means there are some designs that won't be too popular, eg, hidden exits.


Tricky Rank Feedback

Now things are a bit harder than they were in the Fun rank, though still nothing that isn't manageable. Away go the X-of-everythings that were quite prominent in the Fun rank, so we pretty much had our fun, so to speak :laugh:

Here, my replays for Tricky 2-5 are the same ones that are in the original recording of the video of Tricky 1-5, though in that one there is a point where you won't hear my audio commentary because my mom came into the room and in a blind panic I hit the circle for my headset which mutes the mic and also I pressed the hotkey to pause the recording. Once she left, I unpaused the recording but foolishly forgot to press the circle on my headset control to unmute the mic. I have totally forgotten that it mutes the mic, and it's been a long time since I have had an unfortunate thing happened while recording a video, so as you can see it's gotten to the point where this almost never happens anymore.

In any case, the video I did upload is the one where I simply recorded the final 22 minutes or so to the best of my ability but you will hear my entire audio commentary, just not the original. As such, what's seen for Tricky 2-5 is different than the replays I've attached here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All rightie, halfway through the pack already and am enjoying it a lot! :thumbsup: I definitely look forward to the second half, though I'm already getting stumped pretty badly with the Taxing rank. I'm only on Taxing 2 and it's already kicking my behind. As usual, I'll persevere through the remaining challenges and will get it completed or get as far as I can :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

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Re: [Loap / Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.05 update]
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2023, 01:17:40 PM »
Taxing rank completed and so back with more replays and feedback :)

Taxing Rank Feedback

Similar to L1, this is where the levels really start getting difficult. I consider the first few to be huge steps up in difficulty, with the next several after being easier and a few near the end which are quite difficult. As a matter of fact, Taxing 2, Taxing 3, and Taxing 17 all stumped me pretty bad, with Taxing 9 being another, though namida told me it's one of the very fiddly ones, but I have seen Ryemanni's and Kieran's solutions and there's a really easy way to do the level so that it doesn't rely on luck or anything at all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Only the Mayhem rank left! :thumbsup: So far I have solved the first 5 levels of the Mayhem rank and had an attempt at Mayhem 6 on-camera with no luck. It will require some more time off-camera to get solved. Let's see how far I can get with the final rank or if I can get through the entire pack just like Pooty, Direkrow, Kieran, and Ryemanni. I'm sure it'll be quite tough, especially if the Taxing rank was any indication where several managed to stump me for a long time, but I'll certainly do my best here! I don't intend to give up now, not with how far I've gotten with the pack! ;) Which honestly is much farther than I thought, so yes, I am surprised at how well I'm doing, even though I at one point thought of putting the LP aside and coming back to it later because I got stuck badly very early in the Taxing rank. Nope, looks like my determination and perseverance are strong :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [Loap / Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.05 update]
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2023, 11:49:21 AM »
Mayhem rank completed and thus I have solved the entire pack and therefore join the likes of Pooty, Direkrow, and Ryemanni to have done the same, being the 4th person to do so :thumbsup: My entire replay collection is attached and of course more feedback :)

Mayhem Rank Feedback

As this is the final rank of the pack, the hardest levels of the pack are all here. At the same time, the rank is a wild card in terms of roadblocks and hence there isn't much of a consensus on what the hardest level of the pack is. For example, Direkrow thought Mayhem 16 was the hardest, Pooty thought it's Mayhem 17 instead. I'm not certain about Ryemanni, but it seems that belongs to Mayhem 19? As the creator of the pack, namida also thinks it's Mayhem 19. My guess for Ryemanni is that I saw from his LP that the level took about 4 hours total on-camera before he finally got it solved, and that includes the time when he checked the first few seconds of namida's Dos solution for a little tip-off but that was the only portion he saw before he finally got it solved.

As for me, I would most definitely agree that the final 5 levels of the rank are most definitely some of the hardest of the pack. They're pretty much difficult in their own ways, though the final level doesn't come anywhere near as hard as the 4 levels before them. Granted, there are a few hard levels before them earlier in the rank. Overall, the entire rank was slow going, especially once I reached the double digit level numbers, often only being able to attempt just 1 level and either succeeding or not, most often the latter. There's definitely no doubt in my mind that the Mayhem rank of LP3D is far harder than anything the official L3D game throws at the player.

After much thought, I would have to say Mayhem 16 is the hardest of the pack, so same as Direkrow. Yes, Mayhem 16, even though it has the most generous skillset out of all the levels in the final 5 of the pack, being 9-of-everything, including turners. Maybe either Mayhem 4 or Mayhem 9 as being close seconds. At the same time, I can definitely understand namida's assessment of Mayhem 19 being the hardest instead, and Ryemanni's LP of the level is definitely good evidence of that. However, I guess I was fortunate enough to spot the solution and main trick of Mayhem 19 fairly quick, getting the level solved in far less than half the time it took Ryemanni. Even then, that doesn't mean I found the level easy by any means. I had much more trouble with the main trick than the solution itself, but the former is quite clever, though.

Whereas for namida's assessment that hardest is either Mayhem 18 or 19, for the former I found the level much harder to do than with the very tight time limit. Though, that is because I ended up really overcomplicating the solution. I kind of overcomplicated all of the 4 levels before the final level :XD:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With the completion of LP3D, I have officially completed all packs of the series! :thumbsup: It was a long road and journey, but I have apparently accomplished the feat in just 3 years. So, for the time being I have finished all of namida's released packs for NL and L3D, which does include Doomsday Lemmings for the former. In fact, this pack of namida's was the very first one I LPed, back at a time when I was completely new to LPing and had far less experience with solving custom Lemmings level packs on NL and roadblocks therefore came up very often for me.

In closing, thank you for this pack and all of your Lemmings Plus packs, namida! :thumbsup: I especially enjoyed your LP3D pack all the way from start to finish, even when I thought about putting aside the LP for a while because I got stumped pretty badly with a few early Taxing levels. The first few of Taxing are definitely a huge step up in difficulty, while the next several after the first 5 or so are easier. Just like L1, the halves of the rank can swap with one another, as, except for a few levels here and there, eg, Taxing 17 and 19, being difficult than most others around it, the second half felt easier than the first half IMO.     
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0