Author Topic: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]  (Read 7118 times)

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Offline namida

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[Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« on: August 22, 2019, 09:13:43 pm »
Back in 1995, Lemmings 3D was released. I don't recall for sure exactly when I got it myself - but I absolutely loved it. Within weeks of discovering LemEdit, I was constantly searching the internet for any signs of a level editor - but none existed. This was something that stuck with me though - I always wanted to create my own Lemmings 3D level pack.

The first sign of hope came a few years back, when Pooty documented the level format and released a custom level he'd created. Unfortunately, that was as far as it went - no editor arose as a result of this, nor did any further custom content. At the time, I wouldn't've had any chance of making a decent level editor myself - I could have made sense of the format, sure, but I wouldn't've been able to actually do anything useful with it.

But, since then, I've gotten much better. And earlier this year, I decided - since no one else was making an L3D editor, it was time for me to do it. Thus, L3DEdit was born. Of course, it's not much use having an editor if I'm not going to do anything with it. At first, I just created a couple of odd levels, but I quickly decided - nope, I'm making a whole pack.

And so here we have it. The latest entry in the Lemmings Plus series, and the first entry since the release of NeoLemmix that's been on any engine other than NeoLemmix; introducing Lemmings Plus 3D. A pack of 80 new levels for 3D Lemmings.

Since there's only so much that's known about L3D at this stage, and even less that's editable, I decided not to go to my usual extent of reskinning the whole game, etc. The ranks are still "Fun, Tricky, Taxing, Mayhem". There's very little in the way of custom graphics - though there is one thing in there. For the most part, this is really just a level pack, not a full-blown content pack.

Download link: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?program=54 (Always links to latest version)

To set up this pack:
1. Get a working copy of Lemmings 3D
2. If you aren't using the pre-patched downloads from the above topics, use L3DUtils to apply the music patch. You can skip this step if you're using CD audio music, but it should be applied if you're using soundcard or MIDI music. (My recommendation: MIDI + an AWE32 soundfont.)
3. Copy the unique graphic files from Lemmings 3D Winterland, into Lemmings 3D's "GFX" folder. You can download them here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4274.msg75949#msg75949
4. Download the pack above and extract it to the base L3D folder.
5. Optionally, use L3DUtils' "Unlock All Levels" button to create a save file with all levels unlocked.

All levels in Fun, Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem will be replaced with the Lemmings Plus 3D levels. Practice levels are not affected and will remain unchanged.

The difficulty varies throughout the pack, and I've gone for a "something for everyone" approach here. Fun consists mostly of fairly-easy 5-of-everything levels (though these do get harder as you get further into Fun). Tricky contains puzzles similar in difficulty to the first half of the official game, while Taxing contains puzzles similar in difficulty to the second half. And Mayhem goes fully brutal, delivering challenges harder than anything the official levels throw at you.

Similarly, the "something for everyone" approach does mean there's a couple of levels that may not be the most popular by modern standards. It comes down to "some people do enjoy these levels", and that I remember enjoying them back when I first played, even if I wouldn't now. These definitely will not come anywhere close to being every level in the pack - there's maybe five or six levels in the whole pack that fall under this.

If you'd like to share your replays, you can use L3DUtils to save them (as long as you're running L3D via DOSBox in Windows, that is). I encourage you to share your replays, especially if you're not sure if a solution was intended.

Intended solutions are available either as Youtube videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFyAqIY6HWJ6NunGfl4PiUjM
And some challenge solutions here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFxGOjtxHGyCWeF5N026amzd
Or as L3DR files (use L3DUtils to load these in-game): https://www.neolemmix.com/replay/LP3D_1.02_Replays.zip

To confirm the music is correctly patched:
Note that these notes assume soundcard audio. If you're using CD audio, then the levels specified as "should be a remix of", are instead "should be the same as". Do both tests, together they also rule out a common mistake when appying the patch.
- Fun 9 "Spacewalkers" should have a remix of the music in Fun 7 "Star Wars"; while Fun 12 "The Armageddon Machine" should have a completely different music.
- Fun 6 "Indoor Maze" should have a remix of the music in Fun 2 "Security Walls"; while Fun 15 "The Mansion" should have a completely different music.

Huge thanks to:
- Pooty, for his work on figuring out the L3D formats
- Pooty (again) and Nessy, for pre-release testing
- Clockwork Games, Psygnosis, etc for Lemmings 3D itself; I know not everyone agrees, but I consider it probably the best game in the Lemmings series outside of the L1-style games
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:45:32 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 09:14:35 pm »
Saved lemming records (click to show/hide)


« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 09:07:14 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 04:11:33 am »
I've set up a playlist for intended solution videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFyAqIY6HWJ6NunGfl4PiUjM

I'm still in the process of uploading all the videos (I've got all 80 recorded). EDIT: All 80 uploaded now, though of course some may need to be replaced if later backroute fixes are needed. They've been scheduled so that Fun 1's solution video will release on September 1st, and then one level per day thereafter until all of them are out. I'll most likely post the actual replay files once the videos finish releasing.

Do note that just because your solution doesn't match the video doesn't automatically mean it's a backroute. Some levels are known to have multiple acceptable solutions (eg. "Mysterious Artifacts", "Wafer-Thin"), these videos will generally show the original intended solution. Likewise, if a solution here seems really hard for the position, it may be that that was the original intended solution, but there were easier solutions found that I felt didn't warrant fixing, and the level's position is taking into account those solutions.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 06:22:18 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2019, 08:55:25 am »
I've now got (initial) saved lemming records for every level, which I've listed in the second post. Feel free to try and beat them. ;) There are a few that I suspect are improveable.

Offline Pooty

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 09:57:43 pm »
Spacewalkers has been improved to 34/40. I have attached a replay for the solution.

Edit: I've also improved Star Wars to 38/40.
Edit 2: Pac-Lems has been improved to 57/60
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:36:44 pm by Pooty »
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 02:38:11 am »
I've improved Luck Shot (Mayhem 74) to a whopping 48/80 (up from 27/80!!!). The replay would spoil the normal solution to this level as well, which hasn't been revealed yet, so I won't post this replay publicly yet either - but I've sent a copy to the pre-release testers.

I can't rule out for sure that it's possible to save even more than this, though I'm pretty sure I've at least hit the limit of what anything resembling the intended solution can achieve - and I even went to the extent of modifying the replay with a hex editor to see if frame-perfection could squeeze out another lemming (it seems it cannot).

EDIT: Nope. Found a way to improve it further to 50/80.

I suspect at this point, Detour Shot and Aerial Assault are the most likely levels to be possible to squeeze out some more lemmings on, as they're very much the type where how much you save comes down to how optimized your solution is overall rather than finding a specific trick to save more - and these tend to be the levels where I'm not too great at squeezing out every last lemming.

EDIT: This one was more an oversight than an impressive new result as such, but Deathspring Tunnel improved to 25/30.
EDIT: Rapid Drive improved to 58/80.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 09:00:19 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2019, 08:26:42 pm »
Detour Shot improved to 15/40. I suspect it's possible to improve further. So far, this is just a very optimized version of the intended solution.

EDIT: With a bit of clever thinking, I was able to further optimize this to 18/40. Some timing tweaks might be able to squeeze out 19, but I think we're close to the limit here.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 08:49:01 pm by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2019, 10:58:07 pm »
Although the playlist hasn't quite finished releasing yet, I figure it's close enough, and since I'm doing general updates to the Lemmings Plus series at the moment - replay files are now available, see first post.

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2019, 10:47:01 pm »
I've started playing through this pack, here's the first video in the series:

https://youtu.be/z-uVn5HVox8

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 09:32:49 pm »
V1.01 uploaded.

Has a backroute fix for Taxing 42 "The King's Test". Has visual fixes / improvements to Fun 5 "The Grand Gallery" (this one could also enable some solutions that didn't work before, though should not break any existing solutions), Fun 17 "Quadcore" and Fun 20 "Arctic Mission".

Existing replays should still work on all levels. Download link in first post. Working on updating the Youtube solution videos to reflect these changes.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 07:27:20 pm »
Here's one that really requires knowing L3D's mechanics (glitches and otherwise) to achieve, including having to deal with an undesirable effect of a glitch at one point too.

Every lemming saved on Fun 19 "The Side Act". ^_^

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 10:01:04 pm »
I've made a playlist of videos for challenge solutions. I'll upload more over time, but for now, there's a few of the particularly interesting max-saved solutions from Fun. (I was going to start recording Tricky too, but the only particularly interesting one is on a level that I have a strong suspicion can be improved thanks to a recent glitch discovery.) Specifically so far, it has the 39/40 solutions for "Resist The Temptation" and "Quadcore", and the 40/40 solutions for "The Armageddon Machine", "Sea of Sugar" and "The Side Act". (I figured that 40/40 on "Security Walls" and "The Grand Gallery" are too trivial to be worth uploading.)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVWvcY0oGEFxGOjtxHGyCWeF5N026amzd

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2019, 07:18:53 pm »
Longboy improved... to 10/10!

EDIT: And as I suspected for a while was possible but wasn't having much luck getting to work - but finally did - Blazing The Trail improved to 57/60.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 08:21:13 pm by namida »

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 10:27:27 pm »
The Claw improved to 48/60, not sure how I overlooked this before.

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 11:52:05 pm »
I'm going to need to ask for some hints for Taxing 45 "Deathspring Tunnel".

Here's my current thinking, might be useful for providing a hint towards where my thinking is going wrong:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I feel trapped in a logical hole from which there is no escape. I must be missing something, maybe some sort of behaviour of 3D Lemmings that I am not aware of or do not understand.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2020, 12:41:41 am »
Spoiler-tagging my whole response.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Deathspring Tunnel" is one of those difficulty-spike levels; the next few should be a bit easier. :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 06:21:28 pm by namida »

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2020, 07:15:25 pm »
I've also updated the 2nd post in the topic with hints for all Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem levels. Feel free to refer to it if you get stuck in the future (though you're welcome to ask for more hints if those ones aren't enough).

Please be aware: Opening the hint list will spoil level names (though each level's hint is individuall spoiler tagged). Also, any given level's hint may contain spoilers for earlier levels.

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2020, 10:25:07 pm »
Been looking forward to this. Lemmings 3D was my first (and only) lemmings game as a kid. Coming back to it has been fun, even if wrangling the camera and relearning the nuances of the mechanics has been difficult.

Finished the Fun difficulty. L3DRs attached.

Level comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least favourite):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 10:33:46 pm by DireKrow »
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2020, 08:34:40 pm »
Just improved Aerial Assault from 59/80 to 66/80 - all turners, blockers and bombers are used, but no other lemmings are lost besides those.

I also uploaded videos for the interesting max-saveds in Mayhem: 46/50 on "Flying Sweets", 18/40 on "Detour Shot", 50/80 on "Luck Shot", 66/80 on "Aerial Assault" and 72/80 on "Winter Dynasty".
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 09:10:26 pm by namida »

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2020, 08:49:58 am »
I finished the Tricky difficulty, so time for more thoughts. L3DRs attatched.

A general comment which applies to all of these is that they're memorable. Even though I played through them over a few days, I had no problem remembering which level was which just from their name. That's a good sign. Overall, I'm thoroughly enjoying this pack so far.

Level Comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll be busy over the next couple of days, but I look forward to getting started on Taxing soon. Particularly since you've indicated on the discord that it has many of your favourite levels from the entire pack.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 09:06:50 am by DireKrow »
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2020, 02:33:04 am »
The Claw improved to 50/60.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2020, 07:15:51 pm »
The Claw improved to 50/60.

And now to 54/60. :)

I think this is the limit. 55/60 would need either an additional climber or an additional basher as far as I can tell. (Or an additional builder, but that's too easy. :P)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 07:24:16 pm by namida »

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.01 update]
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2020, 02:58:53 am »
I finished Taxing. Overall, it was the best rank so far. Lots of good puzzles. The pack is really hitting it stride.

Level comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least favourite):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.02 update]
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2020, 08:28:32 pm »
Uploaded an update, V1.02. This fixes backroutes in a few late-Taxing / early-Mayhem levels (and one misc fix).

Fixed levels (click to show/hide)

Download: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=396 (perma-link to V1.02)
You can simply extract this over the top of your existing copy of the pack.

Solution replays have been updated as well, see the first post. The solution videos have been replaced where necessary as well.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 08:54:41 pm by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2020, 08:46:23 am »
V1.03 released. This fixes backroutes on the following levels:
- Mayhem 68 "Color Display"
- Mayhem 69 "Breaking The Routine"
- Mayhem 71 "Kingdom Of Chaos"
- Mayhem 73 "The Grand Arch"
- Mayhem 77 "Winter Dynasty"

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2020, 09:01:07 am »
An improvement to a level where previously the save requirement was (thought to be) the max - 46/50 on The Grand Arch.

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2020, 05:47:10 am »
After much brain-frying, I have finished Mayhem. It was a thrilling journey.

Level comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level rankings (favourite to least favourite):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Overall, this pack was everything I had hoped it would be and more. Thanks so much for making this and allowing me to relive some of my childhood in a new way. I hope to use this as inspiration for some of my own L3D levels eventually.

I'm going back to the world of NeoLemmix for now, but would be interested in going through this pack for Skills You Can't Live Without at some point.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2020, 09:11:57 am »
Started on Skills You Can't Live Without tonight and got some results for the first half of Fun:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's believed that all of these are maxed aside from, perhaps, the builders in Fun 5.

Attached is a pack of replays justifying all of these results.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2020, 09:05:53 am »
Finished Skills You Can't Live Without for Fun:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The total for Fun is 1 Blocker, 33 Turners 32 Turners, 39 Builders.

Pac-Lems is the only one I feel is improvable in this batch (EDIT: It was improved! See below). Lots of cool replays this time, though. Would recommend 0 Digger Armageddon Machine, 0 Turner Quadcore, and all of 0 Turner, 0 Climber and 0 Blocker for The Side Act.

Attached is a pack of replays justifying all of these results. Thanks to namida for contributing some!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 07:40:59 pm by DireKrow »
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2020, 10:38:19 am »
PacLems was indeed improvable, to 3 turners. (I don't see any room for improvement over 3 builders.) This involves some big-time glitch abuse, though.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D] Lemmings Plus 3D - Release topic [V1.03 update]
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2020, 08:17:33 pm »
^ While not an actual improvement on the result, I can now make this a glitchless 3 turners. Major oversight on my part yesterday.