Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems  (Read 730 times)

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Offline Strato Incendus

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[NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« on: October 09, 2017, 01:35:11 am »
And here it is, slightly smaller, and quite a bit more puzzly than PARALEMS:



:compat-new:

:compat-ver-10-13::compat-yes:

PIT LEMS has 100 levels, 20 for each rank: LOL, ROFL, WTF, OMFG, and FML. The name is inspired by the Star Wars spinoff-puzzle game "Pit Droids", because it is my first attempt at a more puzzly pack.

Differences to PARALEMS:
- adhering more to a puzzle philosophy: no hidden traps, exits, or other objects, unless it's unavoidable - some tilesets have naturally less salient traps than others, e.g. the Purple and Snow tileset
- no time limits
- more mechanically-, less flavour-driven
- timing, i.e. relative distance of lemmings to each other, is a thing, though - following Pit Droids philosophy here, but also similar levels from Nepster Lems etc.
- the majority of puzzles is more Sudoku-like, less maze-like: I prefer to create challenges through tight limitation of skills rather than through level size. The bigger levels that are in here therefore usually have a comparatively lenient skill count; as long as you follow some basic principles of efficient and economical skill use, you should be fine.
- there is no hatch-labeling for lemmings with pre-assigned skills, because some hatches give out lemmings with several different skills - like in Pit Droids, where one hatch can spawn Droids of different colours
- radiation and slowfreeze occasionally appear, as do zombies. They aren't the main focus of the pack, though.
- There is still one light "trolling" level in here, because I deliberately wanted to make a fair one :) , meaning it will go against some player expectations, but everything relevant should still be visible.

Some specials about this one:
- where PARALEMS had re-runs of original Lemmings levels, PIT LEMS features some remakes of Lemmings 3D levels. They might not work exactly the same, though, because there obviously are no turners, and Lemmings can't be stunned like in Lemmings 2.
- I made another "no skills" level, slightly more advanced than the one from PARALEMS. :D It comes comparatively early in the pack, since this one also has an "educational function".
- Since a lot of levels still seem to restrict themselves to the classic 8 skills, I added a level only featuring NeoLemmix skills.
- "Storywise", you actually have an antagonist, someone who wants to kill all lemmings - and I hope it will become obvious with the last level who this person is... :D

On to the ranks!

LOL
These are mainly introduction levels, yet not of the usual sort. Most of the skills are taught in "chunks", i.e. all destructive skills, all creative skills, and so on. Most objects are introduced, and yes, as you can see, that includes radiation and slowfreeze. Also, some easier tricks that can be done with the skills are taught (meaning "enforced") here. Some of these levels might catch the unsuspecting player off-guard, though!

Base jumping - here the difference between updraft and anti-splat pad is actually relevant!

Annihilation station

Petrification station

ROFL

The name might make you believe these levels were easier, but in fact they're just more weird. Some slightly more advanced tricks. Larger levels start to appear (see example one), yet there are also a lot of more compressed levels that require some thinking out-of-the-box instead.

Skies and Sand

Na zdorovje Lem

Beware of collectivism - different kinds of lemmings coming out of the same hatch!

WTF
This rank isn't necessarily supposed to annoy you yet, but rather to surprise and confuse, at least making you pause for a second.

Under construction

Check mate

OMFG
Now it's time to purposefully confuse the player visually. Apparently, there is a target audience for these types of levels here in the community; hence, these levels can usually be identified by their names, as in the first example below ;) .

You had it coming

Cherry picking

FML
Any frustration you might experience on this rank is absolutely intended. :) It shouldn't be too much execution-based frustration, but especially when radiation and slowfreeze are involved, I won't guarantee for anything - and on this rating, I don't feel obliged to either ^^. This rank will also test you with regard to the skill tricks taught to you before - but of course, it won't be quite as obvious anymore where you'll have to use them!

You asked for this!

Merry X-Maze!

Last cry for salvation - differently coloured hatches used for lemmings with and without pre-assigned skills

Go ahead and give it a shot whenever you feel like it! Perhaps this will also meet the tastes of users who might have found PARALEMS a bit too whacky and "out there". :D

Let the search for backroutes begin anew!

Download link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kywespbmncb6ccr/Pit%20Lems.nxp?dl=1
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 05:36:07 pm by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Online nin10doadict

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 08:44:12 pm »
Started a blind LP. First part is up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkLT_rhxEjM&feature=youtu.be

This pack is way harder than Paralems, that's for sure. :o I'm probably going to need help at some point or I'm gonna get stuck and have to give up the LP. For now though I'm still ok...

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2017, 09:40:09 pm »
It's an honour to be welcomed into the ranks of those whose packs are on YouTube! :D Thanks a lot, nin10doadict!

I just watched it, you got the intended solution on every level except for "Blocking all over the world"! :D As I have also commented on the video, I am going to swap the position of "Blocking all over the world" and "On the fence" for the next version, so the player gets an official taste of the fencer before having to use it in a more complex setting. Although "On the fence" seemed to be the harder one of these two levels, so that would speak for its higher position ;) .

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meanwhile, I have reached the Hyper rank of your newest version of CasualLemmings, although there's still some levels in between which I had to skip for the moment and will have to come back to later - some as low as the first rank :D . I guess I will just upload all the replays of the levels which I'm able to solve in one big bunch soon. Don't feel quite comfortable enough at solving community packs yet to do it on YouTube, my success rate, irrespective of which pack I'm playing, is still too low at this point - I picked my new custom user title for a reason ;) , after all.

I have also downloaded Lemmings Squared this evening, because as you can see, I don't mind Stacker shenanigans ;) . Will be interesting to take a look at your first pack in comparison, because CasualLemmings did indeed already turn out a lot harder than its title would suggest.
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Online nin10doadict

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 02:19:36 am »
I've kept working at it and I've cleared the first rank and the first 4 levels of ROFL as well. Despite how it may sound, I'm enjoying the difficulty of it so far. Few of the levels have been cakewalks, but none have been so hard that it was frustrating. :thumbsup:
I'm pretty sure I've found some backroutes here and there though. Some new backroutes appear to have cropped up in Casualemmings too so I'll have to make another pass at looking through it. Hyper rank is bound to have some backroutes still hanging around too that people will likely dig up...

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 10:38:53 am »
That's great to hear, I'll keep watching! :)

Speaking of backroutes, I found out by playing your level "Sewer shaft" that apparently it is possible to dive beneath the trigger of crocodile traps using only a single stoner. This will very probably create a shortcut on one of my levels, "Crossing the Nile". So far, I had only worked with the shells from the Beach tileset, as far as traps directly on water are concerned, which have a wider trigger area and therefore always required several stoners to dive under.

Perhaps I can replace the stoners with stackers and work out something different... just wanted to warn everyone ahead of time that this level can probably be broken easily ;) . Like with Paralems however, I'm going to do a bunch of major corrections in one big swoop, rather than constantly replacing the pack file.
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Offline Raymanni

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 11:28:33 am »
It's a pretty good pack so far! The levels feel a lot more puzzly than in Paralems and I like that. :)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 05:41:12 pm »
Kiitos, that's what I was hoping for :) ! I wasn't sure whether you got to take a look at Paralems, because there weren't any post of yours in the respective thread. But judging from the Wafflemm Casualemmings stream, more people than I expected did at least try it, because Wafflemm seemed to get nin10doadict's reference with regard to the super-powered crocodiles :D .

Currently, it seems like most people are busy with the level design contest, so it will take a while to spread the word.

If you have any replays you could upload, that would certainly help me to improve this pack even more! ;)
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Offline Raymanni

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 08:02:36 pm »
Yeah, I did play Paralems! I just often find hard to give more constructive feedback other than "Awesome!" or "Great job!". :P
I will be sure to post some replays after I have completed more levels. ;)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 10:51:53 pm »
So far, I view it as "Pit Lems has more wit, but Paralems has more soul" :D . Although the latter is probably very much linked to the music, since I often used famous tracks to make some kind of comment about the level. That obviously gets lost here since I can't upload copyrighted music to an official place. I would have loved to do a musical equivalent to what arty is doing with epochs of art in his pack, but I fear even if I created self-transcribed replicas of all those songs with a notation software like Guitar Pro or similar, that still wouldn't solve the problem because the piece itself would still be copyrighted, even if it wasn't the original record playing in the background.

With regard to Pit Lems, I'm predicting thus far that the first major roadblock might be "Doubling Down", ROFL 08. This level tries to teach several not-quite-so-famous and even less obvious tricks to the player, mainly stuff I learned from Nepster, and I'm not sure whether the preview text will be enough to give the unsuspecting player a chance. Of course, with lots of logical thinking, people who don't know about these tricks might still figure them out for themselves... but lots of logical thinking would be more suited for higher ranks. :D Then again, this level is supposed to teach the tricks - the higher ranks feature levels where they need to be applied without prior introduction. So I don't really know how much higher this level can or should go.

Some levels are going to swap places eventually, anyway. I just feel a little sorry for nin10doadict running into this level on camera... :)

Also, as expected I was able to backroute my level "Crossing the Nile" by diving beneath the traps. It did take two stoners per crocodile rather than one, because the triggers were placed a little deeper in the water, but still, that's not the way this level was supposed to be solved. It might work if I limit the number of stoners to four and replace the remaining ones with floaters and stackers.
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Online nin10doadict

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 01:44:38 am »
I'm up to ROFL 20 at this point and haven't started attempting it. I didn't actually find 'Doubling Down' all that tough, though I may have cheesed it a bit with some bomber shenanigans due to the jagged terrain up top. That video will be part 7 when I get there, but...
Encoding my videos is difficult because my computer is old and worn and my encoder kinda sucks. Encoding my 15 minute videos takes about 45 minutes if I don't have any other programs open (longer if I do), and even still there's about a 50% chance the output file just won't exist or the computer will crash from the exertion. :lix-ashamed:
I do have up through part 6 encoded and ready to post though, but I'm limiting it to one video per day.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 12:42:53 pm »
Ah, I'm relieved to hear about that! :D

Quote
I do have up through part 6 encoded and ready to post though, but I'm limiting it to one video per day.

That's certainly wise, don't waste your ammunition too quickly! :D

Of course this means there will be a comparatively large gap between what we can see you playing and where in the pack you actually are at the moment, so if you're struggling with a particular level and might need some help, I will have to guess from your descriptions and/or uploaded replay files here on the forum, rather being able to see what you are attempting. Chances are, if you end a video in the middle of a level and it seems like you got stuck, I you probably already solved that level in the meantime ;) .
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 08:02:34 pm »
Attached my replays. Overall these levels were much better than your first pack, but there are likely far more backroutes, too. Sorry for not giving more feedback, but at the moment I don't have time to type a more detailed comment. :-[

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 09:09:20 pm »
Thanks for playing, and for the laurels, Nepster! :) Replays usually speak louder than words, anyway. May I ask how long it took you in total to get through the pack, roughly speaking? ;)

Quote
there are likely far more backroutes, too.

Yeah, that's certainly one of the universally positive things about execution-heavy levels - they usually can't be backrouted :D !  Reduce the execution-based stuff and the number of backroutes goes up... but thanks to you I have lots to watch now, so I shall go on a hunt for those genius little shortcuts :) ...
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 04:30:02 pm »
May I ask how long it took you in total to get through the pack, roughly speaking? ;)
Sorry, but I have honestly no idea at all. It took me a few days, but I played the levels in the breaks that I took from fixing NeoLemmix bugs or converting styles. This makes is quite hard to get a good estimate how long I actually spent on your pack.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 09:13:09 pm »
Okay, once more thanks a lot to Nepster, your replays have enabled me to hopefully kill all the backroutes you had found.

Here is the updated version (you can also use the link in the starting post):
Pit Lems V2

Changelog of levels worth playing again
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Apart from those levels, a lot of Nepster's solutions weren't necessarily intended, but not backroutes either - just valid and oftentimes very curious alternative solutions. I thought about putting that skeleton on "Last cry for salvation" back behind the steel to make it impermeable, but then decided I liked your solution so much - especially since you steel needed all of the builders - that I want to keep this option available.

And I have to say, your solution for "A trip to Yugoslemmia", which was intended to be pure timing-based annoyance (since timing apparently doesn't count as "execution" :P ), was truly genius! :D
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 09:20:46 pm by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels