Author Topic: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread  (Read 6558 times)

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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2019, 07:55:17 pm »
Assuming GigaLem has named all the pieces the same way, all you need to do is open the post-conversion level in a text editor, and use the "Replace" feature to replace any occurances of "namida_sky" with "gigalem_skymd". You can also do the reverse to convert a level using GigaLem's remaster back to the normal set.

(You can modify the translation tables instead, sure, but that only helps for levels you're converting from old formats, not ones that already exist in new formats.)
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Offline GigaLem

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2019, 08:18:14 pm »
Assuming GigaLem has named all the pieces the same way, all you need to do is open the post-conversion level in a text editor, and use the "Replace" feature to replace any occurances of "namida_sky" with "gigalem_skymd". You can also do the reverse to convert a level using GigaLem's remaster back to the normal set.

(You can modify the translation tables instead, sure, but that only helps for levels you're converting from old formats, not ones that already exist in new formats.)

The best way you can do this is with Notepad++
Ctrl+F to open up the search tool, click the replace tab, type in the style you want to change and on the "with" box type in the style you're putting in. Then click Replace all

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2019, 10:45:31 pm »
Assuming GigaLem has named all the pieces the same way, all you need to do is open the post-conversion level in a text editor, and use the "Replace" feature to replace any occurances of "namida_sky" with "gigalem_skymd". You can also do the reverse to convert a level using GigaLem's remaster back to the normal set.

(You can modify the translation tables instead, sure, but that only helps for levels you're converting from old formats, not ones that already exist in new formats.)

The best way you can do this is with Notepad++
Ctrl+F to open up the search tool, click the replace tab, type in the style you want to change and on the "with" box type in the style you're putting in. Then click Replace all

While Notepad++ is a very nice editor in general, regular old Notepad is perfectly capable of doing the above replacement.
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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2019, 09:05:13 am »
Thanks a lot, you two! ;) I do know how the find-replace function works; I've used it myself to quickly alter translation tables before.

It just didn't occur to me though that of course, one can do that with the level file itself, as well! :D
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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2019, 06:32:41 pm »
I'm just writing here for everyone, because apparently the translation tables for several of GigaLem's Lemmings Plus edits are missing.

He sent me the desert_md translation table a couple of days ago, however the next one the converter complains about is metal_md.

I can already tell in advance that I don't have a translation table for purple_md either.

For Tree, I have two - one for the bright and one for the darker edit, because I also named the original styles differently to have both of them at my disposal. I have some levels in Lemmings World Tour that contain both pieces from the bright and the darker Tree edit.

The desert_md translation table as GigaLem sent it to me was not working, because it was trying to replace the "old exit" plus the matching top - pieces which no longer exist in the New Formats version (even though I hope the old exit gets readded at some point).

So I've fixed the desert_md translation table and share it here, together with the two translation tables for tree. The one for the brighter tree_md only works if you name the Old Formats style "gigalem_treemdbright", obviously.

But what I (and everyone else) are still missing are metal_md and purple_md.

So please share them here when you find the opportunity, GigaLem! ;) I thought I was the only one "late" to convert their pack, but namida, Nessy & Co. currently seem to be picking up on converting other people's unconverted packs as well.

Therefore, I believe translation tables are going to be in quite high demand again soon. ;)
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Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2019, 08:01:02 pm »
Just wondering: Do you get suitable results by changing the old-formats level to use the standard versions of these sets, then changing them back to GigaLem's one after conversion?

If yes - you should be able to make a suitable translation table just by creating a renamed and slightly-modified copy of the standard version one. You shouldn't need to modify it in any way beyond one or two "find-and-replace-all" operations and renaming the file. If no - then GigaLem (unless he fixes the discrepancy) should not continue to call these sets a "remaster" or anything like that, and should instead promote them as new sets simply inspired by mine, as they are not 100% compatible with the standard ones. My feeling here is - if they are indeed meant to be equivalent, just with different visuals, it should be possible to simply replace all references to eg. "namida_sky" in a level with references to "gigalem_sky_md" or whatever he's calling them, and the level should - physics-wise - be 100% identical, differing only in visuals.

(And on that note, why exactly are these being suffixed with "_md" anyway? "MD" in the Genesis tilesets indicates "Mega Drive", an alternate name for the Genesis; and these styles are well above the graphical quality a Genesis could ever hope to put out...)
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Offline GigaLem

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2019, 03:33:13 am »
Quote
(And on that note, why exactly are these being suffixed with "_md" anyway? "MD" in the Genesis tilesets indicates "Mega Drive", an alternate name for the Genesis; and these styles are well above the graphical quality a Genesis could ever hope to put out...)

md for Mod, the suffix was there for old format use, since the transition, it kinda stuck having it there.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2019, 12:36:15 pm »
Quote
Just wondering: Do you get suitable results by changing the old-formats level to use the standard versions of these sets, then changing them back to GigaLem's one after conversion?

I think that's what you suggested for anyone who wanted to swap out pieces from a level using one of your original Lemmings Plus tilesets (like Desert, Purple etc.) for GigaLem's edited version. Sky, for example, has only been updated for New Formats, and I remember asking about how I could swap those out.

For Lemmings World Tour, however, at least for Metal I have levels in your style as well as in GigaLem's. So this step would convert them all to namida_metal first when converting the entire pack in one piece, then I'd have to open the single level files in editor and replace all instances of your tileset with GigaLem's (or not, depending on whether the individual level requires your or GigaLem's version).

Either way, it seems weirdly inconsistent that some of GigaLem's mod-sets have translation tables and others don't, so @GigaLem, it would be helpful if you could shared them. ;) Otherwise, every user would have to perform the above-mentioned steps individually. Given that your versions look great, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only user, from among those who have yet unconverted packs, that is, who made use of your Lemmings Plus tileset edits.

But this point, only purple_md and metal_md are still missing, anyway.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2019, 10:29:59 pm »
If the styles are consistent, you should be able to simply create a copy of my version's translation table, and change all the style name references in it.
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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2019, 02:03:30 pm »
Good idea, and it works to some extent - however, the styles are not completely consistent because GigaLem added pieces to his modifications that your versions don't have.

This by itself isn't a problem either - I just opened gigalem_metalmd in the old graphic set tool and added the missing indexes to the translation table, referring to their respective counterparts from the converted version. Those were quite a lot of additional pieces for metalmd and purplemd, though, so lots of unnecessary work, because I'm sure translation tables for these styles must already exist somewhere! ;)

More importantly, though, gigalem_metalmd in Old Formats had two terrain pieces both named "alt9" - one a horizontally-oriented block, one being a long vertical piece.

The former is missing from New Formats, the latter is what is named "alt9" in the New Formats version.

This is not just an optional exit, this is an actual missing piece of terrain, which, as a consequence, can make converted levels in this style not work in New Formats.

Please, GigaLem, re-add this piece of terrain!
(I've exported it with the old graphic set tool and attached it so you know which one I mean.)

I think when you did some re-shading of those "building"-like pieces, you simply forgot about this one.

All of this is a lot of unnecessary nuisance - it would be way easier if you had simply shared the missing translation tables for gigalem_metalmd and gigalem_purplemd.

After all, in the instructions on graphic set conversion, updating the translation table is officially mentioned as part of "the job" of whoever converts a graphic set! I provided mine for my "Instruments" and "Autumn" tilesets as well.
;)

If one is not willing to provide the translation tables (GigaLem did do so via PM to me for desertmd, but not for metal and purple), it would actually be more helpful not to do a conversion at all. Because then somebody else can drag the original .dat-tileset onto the converter, and in the case of these tilesets, this would have been a lot easier than adapting namida's translation tables to the new styles, because all the pieces already had proper names in the Old Formats version, so everything would have fallen into place correctly.

However, it was not possible for me to do that because that would have created an alternative version of these styles - meaning: A complete one, whereas the New Formats versions of desertmd and metalmd lack some pieces.

The fact that objects as well as terrain were removed from the New Formats versions of these tilesets makes converting levels which used these tilesets similarly error-prone and annoying as those created with the last three Gronkling tilesets, which were split up into two tilesets each in New Formats.

For Gronkling, I just recently did the remaining translation tables; I hoped this would be easier for more commonly used tilesets such as GigaLem's Lemmings Plus edits (weren't they even so popular that they were considered to become the new standard versions of those tilesets at one point?).

Hence, I think the fact that there was no proper method of converting levels in these tilesets until I noticed this is a bit of a shame. :P

I've attached my edits of the translation tables, I've done the work to the best of my ability, but some slight readjustments may be necessary. For example, the backgrounds don't get selected properly yet, and the exit_dirt from the purplemd tileset needs some repositioning, although it doesn't occur to me why this occurs. ???
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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2019, 01:36:24 pm »
I had a look at all my converted levels featuring the desert_md tileset. Since the Marble-style exit had been removed, I edited my translation table to replace all instances of that exit with GigaLem's "castle"-like one. However, all those exits get misplaced, because they're different in size.

I prefer the aesthetics of the Marble-style desert_md exit any way, so I think the user should have the choice.

Would you mind to re-add that second exit to desert_md? ;)

(I've attached it so GigaLem can tell which one I mean.)

Your original translation table - the one you had sent me - actually even still included this exit; it's just no longer present in the "objects" folder.

So my guess is that you already have a sprite of the oldexit combined with its top?
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels