Lemmings Forums

NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Graphic Sets => Topic started by: GigaLem on October 02, 2017, 05:23:19 am

Title: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on October 02, 2017, 05:23:19 am
So while I wait for the new format, I decided to try something new
Redesigning LPII & LPIII graphic sets
So far I did Tree
Before
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348311847386218528/364279256018321410/Before.png)
After
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348311847386218528/364279312154755077/after.png)

I have plans for what to do with the Psychedelic set, my idea is Neon florescent Rave party
I may or may not do redesigns of the Cheapo sets

Credit to plom for helping me with some of the set pieces
edit: as of today, all the LPII sets are remastered, they're all in the folder below
edit2: Sky redesign has been added. More will come when made
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 02, 2017, 07:29:41 am
Looks great! Though I kinda still like both... is it possible to just name the style file differently and use both as seperate styles? Or are there references somewhere in the file that specifically require it to be named "tree.dat"? ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Colorful Arty on October 02, 2017, 01:50:58 pm
Excellent job on this GigaLem! I do agree with Strato though, you should probably call this tileset something different, because I do still enjoy the brown tree trunks as well as the birch wood ones.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Nessy on October 02, 2017, 02:50:50 pm
Very nice GigaLem :thumbsup: I especially like the background of it and the detail that went into the trees, but like everyone else said the only thing I would change is the name of it so that the file doesn't accidentally conflict with levels that reference tree.dat or so that the file doesn't accidentally overwrite it. Maybe gigalem_tree_md.dat (md for modification) or gigalem_tree_remake.dat.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 02, 2017, 03:07:50 pm
I don't know about you guys, but I tend to end up combining different tilesets anyway when I want to design good looking trees - a bit from the old Tree tileset, though the resolution is pretty low on that one, usually some of the Medieval L2-trees, and occasionally the big tree from the Beast II-tileset. Why not just add these new ones to the "collection"? :D

Btw, afaik there is no Beast I tileset yet, or did I just not find it? ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on October 02, 2017, 07:47:12 pm
Very nice GigaLem :thumbsup: I especially like the background of it and the detail that went into the trees, but like everyone else said the only thing I would change is the name of it so that the file doesn't accidentally conflict with levels that reference tree.dat or so that the file doesn't accidentally overwrite it. Maybe gigalem_tree_md.dat (md for modification) or gigalem_tree_remake.dat.
I'll adress this, I named it "tree" for those who didn't want to rebuild a level from scratch, I guess you if want to use both, you're free to name it "gigalem_tree" or "tree_remake"
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Nepster on October 02, 2017, 08:00:40 pm
I'll adress this, I named it "tree" for those who didn't want to rebuild a level from scratch, I guess you if want to use both, you're free to name it "gigalem_tree" or "tree_remake"
No, please don't go this way. Any style should have a unique name, because if everyone has to guess which name the level designer used for the style, then noone will ever be able to play a level using this style. So please, please rename your style to "gigalem_tree" and only ever use the renamed one in levels.
In the new-formats version, it will be called "gigalem_tree" anyway. :P

But it's a great style. I especially like the leaves and the steel! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Proxima on October 02, 2017, 08:09:35 pm
Would it be possible to have an automatic conversion feature in the editor, for this and other pairs of styles with the same terrain shapes? The Genesis Dirt syle immediately comes to mind.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on October 02, 2017, 08:19:14 pm
I guess If people want it, I'll rename it, give me a moment
EDIT:Its updated
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: mobius on October 02, 2017, 09:33:13 pm
:thumbsup: Very nice! Can't wait to see what else you come up with for the other styles.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Dullstar on October 03, 2017, 04:16:37 am
Would it be possible to have an automatic conversion feature in the editor, for this and other pairs of styles with the same terrain shapes? The Genesis Dirt syle immediately comes to mind.

I believe new-formats is text based, so I imagine you could use a find and replace operation to take care of this until (if ever) one is added.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Nepster on October 03, 2017, 11:03:34 am
I guess If people want it, I'll rename it, give me a moment
EDIT:Its updated
Thanks a lot! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Would it be possible to have an automatic conversion feature in the editor, for this and other pairs of styles with the same terrain shapes? The Genesis Dirt syle immediately comes to mind.
There is no such feature, and I don't plan to add one. The reason is, that such a feature would only be useful for very few pairs of styles, as they need to have pieces that are named exactly the same.
But as Dullstar correctly noticed, opening the file in a text editor and running a "Replace All" will do exactly what you want.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on November 12, 2017, 06:28:49 am
I'll be attaching a new graphic set to the first post after this one.

A friend of mine (Plom510) Created this redesign or Psychedelic

Before
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/379152557915897866/before.png)

After
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/379154556589834241/afterb.png)

Now its Neon! I'll be doing Metal next, which I'm thinking will be made into a freight storage area
but I'm also gonna set up a poll after this for the purple redesign.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on November 12, 2017, 10:12:26 am
Like it! It's slightly more matt, which makes it less strenuous on the eye than the original, very brighty and shiny version :) .
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Ryemanni on November 12, 2017, 10:17:49 am
That looks pretty good! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on November 23, 2017, 08:23:55 am
Before I say anything, "Alien Planet" will be the redesign for Purple

as for metal

Before (yes I used placeholders)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/383169845262417920/before.png)

After
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/383169878246293504/after.png)

first post will be updated shortly
Plus i might change the OWA too
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on November 24, 2017, 07:14:50 am
I have updated the Metal Redesign to fix the One way arrows
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on February 13, 2018, 12:14:37 am
Just a quick update, I have begun the purple redesign graphic sets, Credit to plom510 for giving me a refrence
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173239675572584449/412466579062915073/unknown.png)

Another thing, I also have plom510 helping me update the foliage and vines of the tree graphic set, the pallet will be receiving an much less eye searing color
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173239675572584449/412508580277649408/unknown.png)

The Tree Update, expect it soonish

for purple It'll take a bit but its coming along well
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on February 14, 2018, 09:46:15 pm
Original
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348311847386218528/364279256018321410/Before.png)
Initial Redesign
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348311847386218528/364279312154755077/after.png)
Update!
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/249723222155591690/413450450709250049/preview.png)
I'll update the first post to have the updated set
with that said Happy Valentines Day and :birthday: Lemmings
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Proxima on February 14, 2018, 11:08:51 pm
Wowee, that's a huge improvement! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: mobius on February 14, 2018, 11:39:34 pm
agree; all of these are looking very very nice :thumbsup: :laugh:
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on February 27, 2018, 09:03:24 am
The time has come for a new redesign
And oh man i'm very happy about this.

Major credit to plom for helping me out with it

Before
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173239675572584449/417963688344027138/before.png)
After
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173239675572584449/417963713291878400/after.png)

the first post will be updated

this redesign also adds
-Solid edged pieces (not seen the image)
-grass
-extra objects
-and a spanking new look

Now I just gotta think of what to do with dessert aside from that
enjoy ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: 607 on March 03, 2018, 12:47:32 pm
I love these! The ideas for the Lemmings Plus styles are really good, but they don't usually look too great.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Flopsy on March 03, 2018, 04:32:12 pm
I still dislike the purple tileset greatly but it's a lot better visually now GigaLem :)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on April 07, 2018, 07:55:57 am
Kept ya waiting huh?
Did this really take a month, that month went by like butter. But without further ado, all the LPII graphic sets are done
Before
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/410644212649033729/432084155057045505/before.png)
After
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/410644212649033729/432084185398640650/after.png)

I'll attach the set here because I have to update the first topic to fit all five.

With that said. I'll be taking a break from redesigns until Lemmings Discovery Vol.1 is finished.

when I return for these, I'm starting with the Lab set from LPIII

Almost forgot, thank you plom for your help with this set
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Proxima on April 07, 2018, 08:55:06 am
Holy globules, that is amazing! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on April 07, 2018, 11:33:50 am
Wow, now I really consider uploading new versions of Paralems and Pit Lems, with all the Desert levels featuring this tileset rather than the original one! :)

No offense to namida, but the Desert graphic set was always the one I struggled the most with in making levels look pretty. This one however looks much more similar to the L2 Egyptian set, while still having enough of an own identity. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on May 08, 2018, 05:57:26 am
Before
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/383169845262417920/before.png)
Intial Redesign
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/383169878246293504/after.png)
Update
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219633993522348032/443288723082182657/after.png)

That looks much better
Edit:I'd send this to nepster soon enough
edit:I forgot a piece, replace "alt1" with the one below
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Dullstar on May 14, 2018, 10:22:26 am
The sand, purple, and metal sets look very good. I'd have to see the psychedelic in practice; personally I always hated that set and just use clear physics when it comes up. I'm not sure how I feel about the one way arrows you're using in metal though - I'd have to see how they look animated, but they're a bit hard to read in the screenshots.

I do not like the tree set. The main issue you have is that your dirt pieces don't combine to form larger pieces well. Ideally, if I take organic-looking pieces like those dirt chunks and use a lot of them to form a larger chunk of terrain, it should be hard to identify where the boundaries of the component pieces are. The way you've shaded these pieces, it's very difficult to conceal those boundaries. If I wanted to, I could take that sample level you have and draw lines where the edges of each dirt piece are.

EDIT: The rest of the tree set is good. The tree leaves especially work well; the shading works to show individual bunches of leaves within the structure of an overall tree. Find a way to make that dirt tile better and it should be fine.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on May 14, 2018, 12:11:34 pm
It's quite hard to make combinable rough-edged pieces like that, without using alpha blending, which support for appears to have been culled (and to be fair, while it was supported at one point in NeoLemmix's code, it was never an officially proclaimed feature, nor did any graphic set actually make use of it) and Nepster appears to have no interest in reimplementing it.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Dullstar on May 14, 2018, 11:16:44 pm
Probably the easiest fix for it would be to add multiple physically-identical pieces with different shading representing the top, bottom, and middle portions of the terrain. The dirt tile looks good in isolation; it just doesn't combine well.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 22, 2018, 02:03:23 pm
plom's mod of Psychedelic hadn't been converted to New Formats yet. Fortunately, he gave all his pieces proper names right away in the original version, so I only had to drag it onto the conversion tool.

I also converted GigaLem's interim version of the Tree tileset (which also had proper names). Because I actually need both, since I even mixed them in Lemmings World Tour :D !

I named it "gigalem_treemdbright" to differentiate it from the now more commonly used darker one. The background is identical, so I threw it out to avoid duplicate pieces (translation table is attached so that the background gets replaced with the identical one from the darker tree tileset). The hatch and exit are actually a little brighter, too, so these are not identical, hence I kept them.

I noticed though that neither plom's nor namida's original Psychedelic tileset keep their teleporters and receivers when converted to New Formats! It's clear that the radiation object gets thrown out, but why the teleporters and receivers as well? Those are unique to this tileset!
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on October 23, 2018, 12:27:32 am
Quote
I noticed though that neither plom's nor namida's original Psychedelic tileset keep their teleporters and receivers when converted to New Formats! It's clear that the radiation object gets thrown out, but why the teleporters and receivers as well? Those are unique to this tileset!

As they're only a very slight recolor of the Circuit one (with the actual reason for the recoloring being file format limitations at the time they were added - back then a graphic set was limited to 32 colors, of which 8 were hardcoded into NL and only the other 24 could be custom-picked - not an intentional design decision), I saw no need to maintain the unique graphic when I converted.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 23, 2018, 09:27:26 am
Okay, I get that, but plom's modification does have a unique design for the teleporter. Why does that get removed as well if it doesn't have the same name as your Psychedelic version? ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 05, 2019, 02:33:53 pm
Oops! Looks like I uploaded the conversion of the interim version of GigaLem's tree tileset (the bright one, which seems to be less appreciated), but not the "final" version :) .

I thought GigaLem's ZIP file in the starting post included New Formats versions as well.

I think the standard downloads of New Formats NeoLemmix include all these tilesets now anyway, but for those who want to download them separately, we should probably also have them here.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: mobius on January 05, 2019, 04:05:23 pm
Again, just popping in to say these are looking really great. :thumbsup:
the redesign of the metal one and the desert looks particularly awesome!

are they available automatically with NL yet?
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: SQron188 on January 05, 2019, 04:30:10 pm
For some reason I've noticed the redesigned Purple tileset only just now and I have to say that it's terrific! The steel blocks there are my favorite! This particular background helps the tileset immensely, in my opinion, and makes it easier on the ol' eyes.

I haven't replied to this topic a whole lot (or in fact at all) till now but I find these reworks - to a varying degree - but great improvements over the originals! Good job, team
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 05, 2019, 05:47:52 pm
I think Sky is the only remaining graphic set from the Lemmings Plus series that could still use an overhaul, couldn't it? ;) namida's later ones (Mineshaft, Clockwork, Honeycomb, Machine, Circuit etc.) already looked a lot better from the getgo.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on January 05, 2019, 06:52:41 pm
I thought I already converted these, you're a bit late on this strato
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 05, 2019, 07:44:24 pm
You did, I just reuploaded them because they were not available as separate tilesets ;) - this thread only contained the Old Formats versions so far. And nin10doadict didn't have them, despite apparently having downloaded the newest NeoLemmix version (because otherwise he wouldn't have had access to the Shimmier which is required in my levels from Lemmings Open Air).

If you're referring to the Sky tileset: I didn't say you specifically should do it ;) ! I just said that one could still use an overhaul if all other of the early Lemmings Plus graphic sets got one.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on March 03, 2019, 03:01:12 am
I'll be bumping this thread for a good reason.

I've said that I've wanted to resume doing set redesigns, I've wanted to get back to Lemmings Plus redesigns as well other stuff.

Wafflem has dm'ed me giving extra help with sets, along with extra tiles for the Master System Dirt set (which should be finished very soon hopefully)
He's given me two sets as a suggestion for redesigning. An Unfinished one by Minim Which I'll be happy to give a graphical upgrade. And one of Namida's Old Cheapo sets
Wafflem told me that Namida rather not treat his cheapo like they exist (I could be wrong so don't quote me on it) But I would like to offer my services.
I want to design a new "Racetrack" set (maybe under a new name) as if it were new set. And I want it to feel like a Potential Lemmings Plus set. Take an old idea and make something new with it.
So instead of trying to redesign it. I'd make it from scratch.

As for Redesigning the Lemmings Plus sets, I'll want to start LPIII stuff one of these and i'm half tempted to Start with Sky to make it more usable.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on March 04, 2019, 07:44:02 pm
I can only encourage you to start with Sky! :thumbsup: There's no comparable style in NeoLemmix so far, and this one definitely still looks quite "rough".
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on March 04, 2019, 07:55:42 pm
Quote
Wafflem told me that Namida rather not treat his cheapo like they exist (I could be wrong so don't quote me on it) But I would like to offer my services.

Okay, so by this I basically meant - I don't want the existing version of the set to be used / converted because it's really poor quality. But if you'd like to do a "remaster" version of it, or create a new tileset inspired by it, that's fine by me.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on May 07, 2019, 05:53:52 am
Finally another redesign, Sky is now improved
Before
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/249723222155591690/575197027885907978/skybefore.png)
After
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/249723222155591690/575197085176168450/SPOILER_skyafter.png)

This version adds

Sky Bricks
A star pickup skill
Rainbow pieces
Sky brick themed exit

Credit to Plom510 for help with some of the sprites

Link in attachment below, this will be added to the first post
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on May 07, 2019, 09:26:31 am
YES! I was hoping for this one as soon as I saw the update notification for this thread. Great job, GigaLem and Plom! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Due to the terrain shape of the specific level above, it looks a bit more like snow than clouds in this case. But since all the terrain pieces are still the same, i.e. cloud shaped, I think if you create a less "mountain-like" structure out of those pieces, it's going to trigger the association "Sky" again right away. 8-)

Now I'm actualy thinking about using this tileset for at least some of the Sky levels from Lemmings World Tour once I convert it to New Formats. I know Flopsy did that for most of the Desert levels from SEB Lems.

However, if I want to keep both Sky tilesets available in the editor, I guess I have to backup my old translation table for Sky and then create a second one that replaces all old Sky pieces with the new ones? Then insert the new translation table into the respective folder while converting all Sky levels I want to have in the new tileset, then replace the translation table with the old one for all levels I want to keep the old Sky tileset.

Correct, @namida / @Nepster? ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on May 07, 2019, 07:55:17 pm
Assuming GigaLem has named all the pieces the same way, all you need to do is open the post-conversion level in a text editor, and use the "Replace" feature to replace any occurances of "namida_sky" with "gigalem_skymd". You can also do the reverse to convert a level using GigaLem's remaster back to the normal set.

(You can modify the translation tables instead, sure, but that only helps for levels you're converting from old formats, not ones that already exist in new formats.)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on May 07, 2019, 08:18:14 pm
Assuming GigaLem has named all the pieces the same way, all you need to do is open the post-conversion level in a text editor, and use the "Replace" feature to replace any occurances of "namida_sky" with "gigalem_skymd". You can also do the reverse to convert a level using GigaLem's remaster back to the normal set.

(You can modify the translation tables instead, sure, but that only helps for levels you're converting from old formats, not ones that already exist in new formats.)

The best way you can do this is with Notepad++
Ctrl+F to open up the search tool, click the replace tab, type in the style you want to change and on the "with" box type in the style you're putting in. Then click Replace all
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on May 07, 2019, 10:45:31 pm
Assuming GigaLem has named all the pieces the same way, all you need to do is open the post-conversion level in a text editor, and use the "Replace" feature to replace any occurances of "namida_sky" with "gigalem_skymd". You can also do the reverse to convert a level using GigaLem's remaster back to the normal set.

(You can modify the translation tables instead, sure, but that only helps for levels you're converting from old formats, not ones that already exist in new formats.)

The best way you can do this is with Notepad++
Ctrl+F to open up the search tool, click the replace tab, type in the style you want to change and on the "with" box type in the style you're putting in. Then click Replace all

While Notepad++ is a very nice editor in general, regular old Notepad is perfectly capable of doing the above replacement.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on May 08, 2019, 09:05:13 am
Thanks a lot, you two! ;) I do know how the find-replace function works; I've used it myself to quickly alter translation tables before.

It just didn't occur to me though that of course, one can do that with the level file itself, as well! :D
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on May 28, 2019, 06:32:41 pm
I'm just writing here for everyone, because apparently the translation tables for several of GigaLem's Lemmings Plus edits are missing.

He sent me the desert_md translation table a couple of days ago, however the next one the converter complains about is metal_md.

I can already tell in advance that I don't have a translation table for purple_md either.

For Tree, I have two - one for the bright and one for the darker edit, because I also named the original styles differently to have both of them at my disposal. I have some levels in Lemmings World Tour that contain both pieces from the bright and the darker Tree edit.

The desert_md translation table as GigaLem sent it to me was not working, because it was trying to replace the "old exit" plus the matching top - pieces which no longer exist in the New Formats version (even though I hope the old exit gets readded at some point).

So I've fixed the desert_md translation table and share it here, together with the two translation tables for tree. The one for the brighter tree_md only works if you name the Old Formats style "gigalem_treemdbright", obviously.

But what I (and everyone else) are still missing are metal_md and purple_md.

So please share them here when you find the opportunity, GigaLem! ;) I thought I was the only one "late" to convert their pack, but namida, Nessy & Co. currently seem to be picking up on converting other people's unconverted packs as well.

Therefore, I believe translation tables are going to be in quite high demand again soon. ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on May 28, 2019, 08:01:02 pm
Just wondering: Do you get suitable results by changing the old-formats level to use the standard versions of these sets, then changing them back to GigaLem's one after conversion?

If yes - you should be able to make a suitable translation table just by creating a renamed and slightly-modified copy of the standard version one. You shouldn't need to modify it in any way beyond one or two "find-and-replace-all" operations and renaming the file. If no - then GigaLem (unless he fixes the discrepancy) should not continue to call these sets a "remaster" or anything like that, and should instead promote them as new sets simply inspired by mine, as they are not 100% compatible with the standard ones. My feeling here is - if they are indeed meant to be equivalent, just with different visuals, it should be possible to simply replace all references to eg. "namida_sky" in a level with references to "gigalem_sky_md" or whatever he's calling them, and the level should - physics-wise - be 100% identical, differing only in visuals.

(And on that note, why exactly are these being suffixed with "_md" anyway? "MD" in the Genesis tilesets indicates "Mega Drive", an alternate name for the Genesis; and these styles are well above the graphical quality a Genesis could ever hope to put out...)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on May 29, 2019, 03:33:13 am
Quote
(And on that note, why exactly are these being suffixed with "_md" anyway? "MD" in the Genesis tilesets indicates "Mega Drive", an alternate name for the Genesis; and these styles are well above the graphical quality a Genesis could ever hope to put out...)

md for Mod, the suffix was there for old format use, since the transition, it kinda stuck having it there.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on May 29, 2019, 12:36:15 pm
Quote
Just wondering: Do you get suitable results by changing the old-formats level to use the standard versions of these sets, then changing them back to GigaLem's one after conversion?

I think that's what you suggested for anyone who wanted to swap out pieces from a level using one of your original Lemmings Plus tilesets (like Desert, Purple etc.) for GigaLem's edited version. Sky, for example, has only been updated for New Formats, and I remember asking about how I could swap those out.

For Lemmings World Tour, however, at least for Metal I have levels in your style as well as in GigaLem's. So this step would convert them all to namida_metal first when converting the entire pack in one piece, then I'd have to open the single level files in editor and replace all instances of your tileset with GigaLem's (or not, depending on whether the individual level requires your or GigaLem's version).

Either way, it seems weirdly inconsistent that some of GigaLem's mod-sets have translation tables and others don't, so @GigaLem, it would be helpful if you could shared them. ;) Otherwise, every user would have to perform the above-mentioned steps individually. Given that your versions look great, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only user, from among those who have yet unconverted packs, that is, who made use of your Lemmings Plus tileset edits.

But this point, only purple_md and metal_md are still missing, anyway.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on May 30, 2019, 10:29:59 pm
If the styles are consistent, you should be able to simply create a copy of my version's translation table, and change all the style name references in it.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on June 01, 2019, 02:03:30 pm
Good idea, and it works to some extent - however, the styles are not completely consistent because GigaLem added pieces to his modifications that your versions don't have.

This by itself isn't a problem either - I just opened gigalem_metalmd in the old graphic set tool and added the missing indexes to the translation table, referring to their respective counterparts from the converted version. Those were quite a lot of additional pieces for metalmd and purplemd, though, so lots of unnecessary work, because I'm sure translation tables for these styles must already exist somewhere! ;)

More importantly, though, gigalem_metalmd in Old Formats had two terrain pieces both named "alt9" - one a horizontally-oriented block, one being a long vertical piece.

The former is missing from New Formats, the latter is what is named "alt9" in the New Formats version.

This is not just an optional exit, this is an actual missing piece of terrain, which, as a consequence, can make converted levels in this style not work in New Formats.

Please, GigaLem, re-add this piece of terrain!
(I've exported it with the old graphic set tool and attached it so you know which one I mean.)

I think when you did some re-shading of those "building"-like pieces, you simply forgot about this one.

All of this is a lot of unnecessary nuisance - it would be way easier if you had simply shared the missing translation tables for gigalem_metalmd and gigalem_purplemd.

After all, in the instructions on graphic set conversion, updating the translation table is officially mentioned as part of "the job" of whoever converts a graphic set! I provided mine for my "Instruments" and "Autumn" tilesets as well.
;)

If one is not willing to provide the translation tables (GigaLem did do so via PM to me for desertmd, but not for metal and purple), it would actually be more helpful not to do a conversion at all. Because then somebody else can drag the original .dat-tileset onto the converter, and in the case of these tilesets, this would have been a lot easier than adapting namida's translation tables to the new styles, because all the pieces already had proper names in the Old Formats version, so everything would have fallen into place correctly.

However, it was not possible for me to do that because that would have created an alternative version of these styles - meaning: A complete one, whereas the New Formats versions of desertmd and metalmd lack some pieces.

The fact that objects as well as terrain were removed from the New Formats versions of these tilesets makes converting levels which used these tilesets similarly error-prone and annoying as those created with the last three Gronkling tilesets, which were split up into two tilesets each in New Formats.

For Gronkling, I just recently did the remaining translation tables; I hoped this would be easier for more commonly used tilesets such as GigaLem's Lemmings Plus edits (weren't they even so popular that they were considered to become the new standard versions of those tilesets at one point?).

Hence, I think the fact that there was no proper method of converting levels in these tilesets until I noticed this is a bit of a shame. :P

I've attached my edits of the translation tables, I've done the work to the best of my ability, but some slight readjustments may be necessary. For example, the backgrounds don't get selected properly yet, and the exit_dirt from the purplemd tileset needs some repositioning, although it doesn't occur to me why this occurs. ???
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on June 10, 2019, 01:36:24 pm
I had a look at all my converted levels featuring the desert_md tileset. Since the Marble-style exit had been removed, I edited my translation table to replace all instances of that exit with GigaLem's "castle"-like one. However, all those exits get misplaced, because they're different in size.

I prefer the aesthetics of the Marble-style desert_md exit any way, so I think the user should have the choice.

Would you mind to re-add that second exit to desert_md? ;)

(I've attached it so GigaLem can tell which one I mean.)

Your original translation table - the one you had sent me - actually even still included this exit; it's just no longer present in the "objects" folder.

So my guess is that you already have a sprite of the oldexit combined with its top?
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on September 12, 2019, 09:41:58 pm
I just randomly noticed: The trigger area of the exit in your Sky Mod tileset seems to be way off - it's on the right side, rather than at the bottom.

I wasn't sure whether I might have had an outdated version of the tileset, but I've just re-downloaded the latest version of the style folder, this still seems to be the case.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 03, 2019, 02:40:51 pm
And another missing thing:

Your modification of the Purple tileset used to have an additional background which I sadly can't find in New Formats anymore (see attachment).

@GigaLem: Please have a look at my posts above again, there seem to be several pieces missing across various tilesets without any particular reason.

In case of the desert_md exit (the original one with the same shape as the Marble or namida_desert exit), I don't even think you removed it intentionally, because the translation table you sent me still included it. It's just that it's missing from the objects folder.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on October 03, 2019, 07:18:01 pm
I'm not entirely sure if GigaLem is actually still maintaining these. Unless / until GigaLem confirms otherwise, it might be better to assume these styles are abandoned (and thus avoid using them).

And on that note - GigaLem, if you are still updating these, please note that my styles will be getting a few minor trigger area tweaks in the V12.7 update. As these are your own, separate styles, it's your call if you want to match those or not, I'm simply making sure you're aware of it. ("Minor" to the extent of "not a single one of my replays broke", but it's not impossible that someone else's might.)
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on October 03, 2019, 07:24:38 pm
I'll be more than happy to resume maintaining this but my there's been too much going to handle it my self. I'm only one person when it comes to stuff like this and theres only so much I can do by myself before resorting to help. If you can give me like list of things to do to give those sets some much needed updates I'm will to put those ideas to work. as for new sets im putting them on hiatus until I get more things in my personal life cleared up. I apologize if im not getting to everything right away. I can only work at my own pace :(
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on October 03, 2019, 07:42:52 pm
I'm not going to update your styles for you, but I can give you a list of which objects have changed trigger areas (or other properties) in my styles for the V12.7 update. (These changes won't occur in the upcoming regular styles update; it will specifically come with V12.7, including the RC build.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not all of these are trigger area changes. For example, the Horror, Lab and Wasteland "acid" objects haven't had trigger area changes; rather, the difference is that they're now horizontally resizable.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: GigaLem on October 03, 2019, 08:52:58 pm
"I'm not going to update your styles for you"
Excuse me but I wasn't asking you to do so, I know its my responsibility. I apologize if I came off as rude but still.

With the change nxmos, those will help a bit. Thank you. I'll probably take a look at the suggestions strato listed above and see what I can do.
There's work to be done and a lot of it.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 04, 2019, 08:20:25 am
Great to hear, GigaLem! :thumbsup: For convenience, here's a general overview again of the things I've found:

- missing second exit in desert_md (--> the one shaped like in namida_desert / orig_marble, attached on the previous page)
- terrain piece alt9 from metal_md (attached on the previous page)
- various backgrounds from both the purple_md and the Freedom-Planet styles
- misplaced trigger area on the exit of sky_md
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: Strato Incendus on December 21, 2019, 02:06:57 pm
I noticed another thing randomly: The locked exit from metal_md is missing its top part - the regular exit from the same tileset has it.
Title: Re: Lemmings Plus Graphic set redesign thread
Post by: namida on December 21, 2019, 05:48:43 pm
Quote
I noticed another thing randomly: The locked exit from metal_md is missing its top part - the regular exit from the same tileset has it.

It's likely still a separate object. As far as I know, very few custom styles (other than my own) are using secondary animations outside of custom pickup skills (which basically require using them) so far.

EDIT: Okay, no, it really is completely missing.