NeoLemmix > Closed

Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]

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Wafflem:
I remember a long time ago that you wanted to discuss implementing Wrap in more of a Lix manner than the NeoLemmix gimmick manner*. Should we still do this?

*For those who don't know, the NeoLemmix gimmick version involved merely lemmings walking past one side of the level to appear in the opposite side (i.e. if they walk through the left side, they appear on the right, vice versa, and ditto for up-down and down-up), while Lix is more of a scrolling thing - think of it as like as 2-D version of Lemmings Revolution.

ccexplore:
I would actually split the suggested feature into two parts:

Part 1: update the physics to be fully wrap-aware.  Note that it is more than just the gimmick of repositioning the lemming whenever its position gets updated past a wraparound boundary--other things that would need updating include making sure terrain additions (eg. builders) and removal (eg. bashers) are wrap-aware as well, that all terrain/trigger checks in game physics are likewise wrap-aware, and that any terrain pieces and object trigger areas straddling the wraparound boundary are correctly handled when loading the level, etc.

Part 2: update the UI to support wraparound scrolling.

It is possible that maybe part 2 is trivial enough to implement compared to part 1 that there's little point in splitting them out, but I rather suspect part 2 may be enough implementation work of its own, that it could make sense to have an interim version that only does part 1 without doing part 2 yet.  Since NeoLemmix does not support multiplayer, part 2 can be argued as a nice-to-have but not necessarily required, with "pause and scroll all the way to the other side" as a temporary workaround in the meantime.

ccexplore:
Also, I would like to see some discussion as to how much people feel wrapping physics would add to the game.  I guess vertical wraparound is probably more interesting in terms of adding new puzzle ideas, but either way, how much do they truly add?

Simon:
Lix has wrap to balance the multiplayer.

ccexplore's part 1 (physics and terrain drawing is wrap-aware) need a topological abstraction of rectangles (x-length, y-length, has x-wrap? has y-wrap?) that sits deep in the game code. Torus bitmaps implement this abstraction. The torus bitmap class reads more like a mathematical proof than like regular code: Extremely hard to write self-documenting code, therefore lots of comments. Part 1 needs more heavy-lifting for a torus-shaped physics matrix.

ccexplore's part 2 (seamless scrolling) gets finnicky and math-y again. The class knows the camera position and pieces together a scene from the torus bitmap.

Wrap in singleplayer is a by-product. Some levels use it, and it's cute. It's disorienting when you see it only rarely. Hard to weigh the advantages against the elaborate implementation.

-- Simon

Dullstar:
I think it could be interesting, but only if it's fully and properly implemented so that it scrolls nicely.

Whether or not it's worth the effort is another question entirely.

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