Should "Nuke" be counted in skill-counter for completing a level?

[LJLPM]

Hello,
level rankings are based on 1) % of saved Lemmings, 2) number of skills used, and then 3) the time used for completing the level.
About the 2) "number of skills used", should "Nuke" be taken in account? (because one may use "Nuke" instead of "Bomber(s)" for handling last blocker(s)). What do you think about that?

[Proxima]

No -- the nuke is primarily a shortcut to end a level without waiting for time to run out, and should be treated as such.

[LJLPM]

Perfect! Thanks

[Simon]

I advise to compute these scores until when the last lemming is saved. Anything afterwards should not count against the player. Otherwise, you discourage fast-forwarding and impose a guessing game of when to nuke for the shortest total time.

There are a few levels where nuking is part of the solution. The nuke is not considered a skill for these traditionally.

-- Simon

[Luis]

Nuke is a "I quit button" so no and levels that uses it as a solution, are just taking advantage that it's a slow quit button that needs to blow up every Lemmings to work. I don't like how the nuke works in the old Lemmings. You can't beat a level without blowing up the blockers. The PSP Lemmings just ends it. The nuke is still there when you quit the level.

[Clam]

I advise to compute these scores until when the last lemming is saved. Anything afterwards should not count against the player. Otherwise, you discourage fast-forwarding and impose a guessing game of when to nuke for the shortest total time.

Do you mean last lemming saved, or last lemming required? Lix takes the former, but the latter would make more sense in terms of completing the level.

[Simon]

I advise to compute these scores until when the last lemming is saved. Anything afterwards should not count against the player. Otherwise, you discourage fast-forwarding and impose a guessing game of when to nuke for the shortest total time.

Do you mean last lemming saved, or last lemming required? Lix takes the former, but the latter would make more sense in terms of completing the level.

I am thinking of last lemming saved.

We value solutions higher if more lemmings are saved, only comparing skill count if solutions have equal save count, and comparing times only if lemmings and skills are equal. The ranking should reflect this traditional valuation.

Minimizing skills or time is challenge material or needs special announcement that a solution strives for this.

-- Simon

[Zaphod77]

nuking is never part of the solution. just press escape instead.  it is an optional display of pyrotechnics.

[Prob Lem]

nuking is never part of the solution. just press escape instead.  it is an optional display of pyrotechnics.

Except in the console ports, of course.

[namida]

nuking is never part of the solution. just press escape instead.  it is an optional display of pyrotechnics.

There's one level in H94 that would disagree with your claim...
As well as many challenge solutions and fan-made levels.

[Zaphod77]

How does that even... (goes and looks up the level)

i stand corrected. wow. what an incredibly stupid trick.  As far as I'm concerned this is a glitch.

(and god that captcha is annoying...  had to request 5 new images.)

[Minim]

It's not a glitch. After all, it's just a one-off trick that was only there to amaze lemmings players whilst playing the game.

[Zaphod77]

I would have made the nuke button disable the exit had i programmed the game.

so it seems it that case, it should be counted as a skill, but only if it works when escape doesn't.

(I vaguely recall the amiga original doesn't let you abort and makes you click the nuke button, but every other version in existence i've played, including SNES (select+start) has a way to rapid abort instead of nuking.)

[namida]

Master System version has no other way. And no, there's nothing glitchy about it. Nuke just assigns a bomber to every lemming; bombers can still exit while counting down, so it's the expected behavior.

[Zaphod77]

Actually, i think it IS a glitch that counting bombers can exit the level, as a nuke solution is the only time it's ever required (feel free to prove me wrong if you can).