Level Review--Lemmings Revolution

Started by mobius, September 19, 2012, 01:54:12 AM

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mobius

review thread for Lemmings Revolution.
Why let the reviewing end! I picked Revolution because it's a game I love and I can't review L2 or any of the others. (I could review paintball but that appears to have bad beef here. Not a single thread of discussion about that game! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> I'll have to fix that eventually.)
Go from 4-5 to 4-6 etc.
Rules follow the same as the other reviews. (Except don't count on me to strictly enforce them. I'm easy).

I'm starting out with level 4-4 because all the levels before that are tutorial levels. If anybody really wants to review those levels you can of course. I personally think they're mostly boring (even for tutorial levels)
I don't know where to get pictures other than from the game itself. You couldn't see the whole level from that however.
Thanks to finlay for use of his spreadsheet for much of the level information.
I'd kind of like to talk about general things about the game itself as well when they come up so feel free to do that. There's a lot of things that bother me. (Despite this being my favorite Lemmings game).

4-4 Seafood Sarnie

Lemmings: 25
Save: 20
RR: <50 [< means RR can only go down, > means it can only go up. If otherwise not mentioned the RR is totally changable]
time: 10 minutes

skills: 20 bombers 20 blockers 20 builders, 20 bashers

good:  A good beginner level with a crab. I like the crab, I don't really know why.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

bad: the laser gate is right by the entrance making it pretty pointless. Unless (as I'm guessing) it was just more tutorial stuff to show off what it does. Kind of an odd skill set for a beginner level.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


ccexplore

I don't know where to get pictures other than from the game itself. You couldn't see the whole level from that however.

When I started playing the game last December, I did screenshots of each level before any lemmings come out.  I forgot exactly why but I think partly so it's possible to examine a level at times when I don't want to actually fire up the game (especially at that point before GP's patch, so it's unplayable on Win7).  To account for the cylindrical nature, I always captured 4 screenshots per level.

Of course, I stopped playing after the 8th column and haven't gotten a chance to go back into it yet, so even if I found a good place to post the screenshots to, it won't cover many of the later levels anyway.

I would review the next level, but I don't even have the screenshots with me at the moment, so I don't know what the next level is or what it looks like. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> Maybe later tonight.

mobius

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=674.msg14884#msg14884">Quote from: ccexplore on 2012-09-19 17:17:13
When I started playing the game last December, I did screenshots of each level before any lemmings come out.  I forgot exactly why but I think partly so it's possible to examine a level at times when I don't want to actually fire up the game (especially at that point before GP's patch, so it's unplayable on Win7).  To account for the cylindrical nature, I always captured 4 screenshots per level.

Of course, I stopped playing after the 8th column and haven't gotten a chance to go back into it yet, so even if I found a good place to post the screenshots to, it won't cover many of the later levels anyway.

oh cool  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> That's nice. If you'd upload that I'd take it for my own reference as well. That would come in handy. You can put all the pics in or just one. I don't know which would be best, try and see. Maybe we could paste them together into one long horizontal pic. I looked online btw and didn't find much by the way of good quality pics.
Don't worry about after column 8, I can take pics of those if/when we ever get that far. I have a decent screen cap program now.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Akseli

Lemmings Revolution levels! I haven't reviewed any levels yet because I guess it may have affected a little that I'd have to run the game and look at the level so I can remember it, whereas levels from other Lemmings games are quickly and easily on display on the Internet or in Lemmix, but I won't let that thing bother me too much.

4-5 - A Long and Lonely Road

Lemmings: 30
Save: 20
Release rate: 10
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 20 bombers, 20 blockers, 20 builders, 20 bashers

Good: A very straightforward practice level. The most exciting part is at the halfway, where you have various different possibilities to turn the crowd towards the higher platform. Water pools bring some diversity to the layout.

Bad: Maybe a little too long distance to go with too few different obstacles.

mobius

hey Akseli, do you know about finlays+LemSteven's spreadsheet? (I attached it to this post). It Lists all levels of almost every lemmings game and info on them. You can just use that for reference, (it's what I'm doing. But I also sometimes play the level too, to refresh)
-----------------
4-6 Lems at Loggerheads

Lemmings: 10
Save: 5
Release rate: 5
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 2 floaters, 2 builders

Good: A good beginner level (I guess we'll be saying that a lot.) Its generic comment but I can't think of anything else. Thought, I do like having to make them all climbers, something that's not done often in the early levels of older lemmings games.

Bad: Kind of boring.

this level is very similar in layout to "Let's play catch"
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Akseli

Yes, I know about the spreadsheet and I downloaded it last summer. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> For example, it gave me some help when I posted a list of builderless official levels in "No Builders" topic. Still, I have to play the game so I can recall the details of a level I'm going to review, and I can't even remember every Lemmings Revolution level from the title yet. Level stats can be easily gathered from the spreadsheet, though (but I'll also keep an eye on them in the game so that there aren't any mistakes!). http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I find "Lems at Loggerheads" decent, basic puzzle for the beginners, and that's one of my favourite easy levels of this game. In my opinion there aren't many good puzzles for beginners in original games, for example in Fun and Tricky ratings, and ONML is tough already right from the Crazy rating.

5-1 - The Abyss

Lemmings: 15
Save: 10
Release rate: 5
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 15 climbers, 15 floaters, 1 blocker, 15 builders

Good: A quite personal view now, but this level is nostalgic because I remember it from a demo version, too. I like the word "abyss" for some reason. The player needs to take care of lemmings falling from the heights.

Bad: Could be more decorated.

The Abyss has very similar layout compared to 11-4 - Lets get those fingers moving.

mobius

^The Abyss. For some reason that level had me stumped when I was a kid. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> no idea why since I had an easier time with much harder levels.

I find "Lems at Loggerheads" decent, basic puzzle for the beginners, and that's one of my favourite easy levels of this game. In my opinion there aren't many good puzzles for beginners in original games, for example in Fun and Tricky ratings, and ONML is tough already right from the Crazy rating.
yeah I agree. There were few good ones from the old games. Few like Lems at Loggerheads. Btw, do you know what the title means? or where it refers to?


5-2 Kriss Kross

Lemmings: 30
Save: 20
Release rate: 15
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 40 blocker, 40 bombers

Good: it's simple and fun. I like the "kriss kross" way the lemming must move about the level. There are also a number of different solutions. This level is fun to do challenge for. It is possible to complete three challenges at once!
[this title also reminds me of my childhood in school. I once had to dance to music that 'tells' you what to do' by singing "sliiiide to the right...sliiiide to the left...kriss kross!]

Bad: it's a little bare looking.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Minim

Hey, I'm pleased that we've got a Revolution review topic to add to our giant collection of reviews. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

5-3: Sergeant Bash

Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 10
Release Rate: 15 (fixed)
Time: 10 minutes

Skills: 2 bombers, 2 builders, 10 bashers, 2 miners

Good: Fairly colourful design, introduces a new trap.
Bad: Even with the trap, there's no challenge whatsoever, unless you call timing the bashers to hit the wall a challenge, which isn't hard at all.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

mobius

yay, somebody else to review. I too, as this is my favorite lemmings game. We must review entire lemming's library! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[quick comment on Sergeant Bash; you can actually totally ignore the saw and only lose 1 lemming!]

5-4 The Crowded House

Lemmings: 10
Save: 5
Release Rate: 39 (fixed (I think))
Time: 10:00

Skills: 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 10 builders, 5 bashers, 10 diggers

Good: I like the symmetric style. It's also an interesting layout, for an early level. It's a short step up in difficulty.

Bad: I think the save requirement is a little low. But then the total # of lemmings are low as well. The RR being fixed seems useless here. Plus strange RR of 39? This starts a bizarre trend in this game. Maybe they wanted to annoy people with OCD?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Akseli

yeah I agree. There were few good ones from the old games. Few like Lems at Loggerheads. Btw, do you know what the title means? or where it refers to?
I have no idea. :b

5-5 - One Way Ticket

Lemmings: 50
Save: 40
Release rate: 50, not changeable
Time: 8:00
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 10 builders, 5 bashers, 1 miner, 2 diggers

Good: The layout resembles "4-5 - A Long and Lonely Road", but now here are more different obstacles and (almost) all different types of skills must be used. I think I find this level more interesting than a couple previous ones due to versatility.

Bad: Hmm I remember there was an acid pool which could be emptied by pulling the lever, but that's completely unnecessary. Or was that there to introduce beginners how the levers work? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Then it's ok.


Btw are those ccexplore's pictures of levels yet available anywhere http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

mobius

Bad: Hmm I remember there was an acid pool which could be emptied by pulling the lever, but that's completely unnecessary. Or was that there to introduce beginners how the levers work? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Then it's ok.

actually it's not totally unnecessary—the acid pool cannot be crossed unless you build over it. You're probably remembering that lemmings will walk "on air" over empty acid pools. This is a phenomenon throughout the entire game. It only happens with acid pools.

Quote
When an acid pool is drained, the lemmings don't fall into the drained pool, but will instead walk across the top.  The exception to this is if an acid lemming is walking on the acid while it is draining, in which case the lemming will go down with the acid. (LemSteven)
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=585.0

I forgot to mention; there's a good walkthrough for this entire game on youtube. Which is a handy way to get info and pictures too http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A19J4krb9XQ&list=PL0750E99D04921FDE" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A19J4krb9XQ&list=PL0750E99D04921FDE
(in priohiko's video he builds over the acid pool... either he just doesn't know about this or his game is different)
------------------------------

5-6 Swings Both Ways

Lemmings: 20
Save: 16
Release rate: 5 and 10, but changeable
Time: 10:00

Skills: 20 floaters, 10 bombers, 10 blockers, 10 builders, 10 bashers

Good: Despite appearing as a simple early level it can actually be a bit tougher than it seems at first. If you do it the easy way (with blockers) you save only the minimum. I like using two different kinds of lemmings to make contrast.

Bad: this level annoyed me a little when I was a kid. It's the first one where you need to get some timing right. Also doing challenges for this level is possible but can be frustrating.


everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Akseli

actually it's not totally unnecessary—the acid pool cannot be crossed unless you build over it. You're probably remembering that lemmings will walk "on air" over empty acid pools. This is a phenomenon throughout the entire game. It only happens with acid pools.
Haha, of course. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> I remember this, but I guess that I really haven't ever thought this in this kind of easy level, so I built over the pool!

Thanks for the link, I might find this useful when reviewing levels.

5-7 - Wandering Free

Lemmings: 20
Save: 10
Release rate: 50, not changeable
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 5 of each

Good: The most exciting part of this level is at the beginning where the player has to dig down to avoid lemming knocking his head to the ceiling.

Bad: Apart from what I just mentioned, this level actually doesn't offer anything compared to what we already have had earlier. I might find this one of the least notable levels in this game.

mobius

6-1 The Iron Curtain

Lemmings: 30
Save: 20
RR: 10
Time: 10 minutes

skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 5 builders, 5 bashers, 2 miners, 2 diggers

good: introduces the retractable wall. A number of different possible routes and not real demanding. It's also fun to dig down and let the water lemmings fall from very high.

bad: You don't actually need to use the retractable wall at all if you use the right path, making it not really the best introduction level. (That's the path I used when I first played) An odd skill set for an early level, kind of sparse.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Minim

This must be the level that nobody wanted to review, so I'll give this one a go.

6-2: Make Mine a Large One

Lemmings: 30
Save: 25
Time: 5:00
Skills: 5 climbers, 10 floaters, 5 bombers, 2 blockers, 2 builders, 5 bashers, 5 miners, 5 diggers

Good: At least there are a few steel blocks in the way.
Bad: Even with them, it's still too easy for its position, and not a particularly enjoyable level either, even though there's not much repetition involved, and also, I could easily make this off the Lemmings level editor, as there are no unique elements (switches, acid, etc.) in this bland level.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Nessy

I don't think this thread is active anymore, but I'll still give it a go.
- - - - - - - - - -

6-3: Now You're Stalking

Lemmings: 50
Save: 49
Time: 6:00
Release Rate: 5
Skills:
- Climber: 1
- Floater: 1
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 1
- Builder: 6
- Basher: 10
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 2

Good: Good puzzle level, especially for a beginner where it's not obvious what has to be done at first.
Bad: Sometimes placing the blocker is a bit tricky as two or three lemmings would be bunched up close together after the digging.

mobius

#15
6-4 Escape to Victory!

40 Lemmings -- Save 40

8:00 -- 10 of each skill

Good:

Introduces the weasels; [sort of like NeoLemmix zombies] moving single kill traps that move and function pretty similar to lemmings. They actually did a decent job of making a level that forces you to deal with the weasels not just ignore them altogether. Simplest way is to sacrifice a lemming to set up a trap for them. But there are other ways to avoid killing one like here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4xNM5cJfZI&index=22&list=PL0750E99D04921FDE

Bad
The RR is fixed (so that you can't send everyone out quickly and get home before the weasels reach you) but that means you might have to wait at the end for everyone to come out which is a tad annoying.

I'm anxious to get through this middle chunk of imo lesser levels and get to the good ones!
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

6-5: Let's Play 'Catch'

Lemmings: 10
Save: 5
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills:
- Climber: 10
- Floater: 1
- Bomber: 4
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 1
- Basher: 0
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 0

Good: Overall an interesting "fall survival" puzzle as it isn't as straightforward as one would think and requires some careful thought and planning.
Bad: Destroying the terrain to reach the exit can be a tad annoying at times. You have to time your bombers and make sure that you leave some kind of small platform at the bottom of the terrain you bomb through, otherwise the lemmings won't survive the fall even with a well placed builder.

mobius

#17
^ 6-5 is probably my second least favorite level in the game. For the reasons mentioned and because it doesn't use any new features, feels like an L1 level but somehow less forgiving.

6-6: Two Sides to Every Story

Lemmings: 50
Save: 40
Time: 10:00
Skills:
- Climber: 10
- Floater: 1
- Bomber: 50
- Blocker: 50
- Builder: 50
- Basher: 10


Good: Relativity complex level, some thought needed to make a path; decent use of gravity changers. And interesting use of multiple lemming types. There's several different ways of solving it.

Bad: the saw doesn't seem to serve much purpose (other than an amusing way to kill lemmings if you've failed). The side of the level feels bare.

btw: for any unaware; if you'd like to look at the levels but can't/don't feel like firing up the game:
playlist of every level

https://www.youtube.com/user/pirohiko/playlists
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

6-7: Wood you believe it?

Lemmings: 50
Save: 40
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 18
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 5
- Builder: 3
- Basher: 10
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 10

Good: Interesting puzzle with figuring out how to use water lemmings to save non-water lemmings and get them both to the exit. Also, the pun?! How can that not be a thing to put here under "Good" :P :P
Bad: I really can't think of anything bad to say about this level to be honest, so I'm going to be nitpicky here and say that the building for the splatform to save the non-water lemmings and the tank can be a bit too precise at times. At least for me those were the reasons why I failed the level when I was younger.

Nessy

6-8: Wheelbarrows of Doom

Lemmings: 100
Save: 98
Time: 4:00
Skills:
- Climber: 2
- Floater: 2
- Bomber: 2
- Blocker: 2
- Builder: 30
- Basher: 2
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 0

Good: An interesting and tough puzzle, especially for a beginner.
Bad: The time limit can be very tight at times, and it can be very intimidating for a new player (plus you waste a lot of this time trying to hit the switch on the far right). You can also backroute the level by using the large quantity of builders to go over the top of the level and bomb your way into the exit :D

mobius

#20
7-1 Designed with Love

Lemmings: 99
Save: 85
Time: 10:00
Skills:
10 of each

*one of my favorites in the game* :D

Good:
It's a relatively complex and good exploration type level using lots of elements; laser gates, pools and weasels. It may take a while to figure out but there's plenty of room for error and it offers many solutions.

Bad: Pirohiko exposes a very lame backroute which bypasses the entire level. Though this might actually be a little harder to pull off then most other ways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKAnJ2eLqzk&list=PL0750E99D04921FDE&index=28
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

7-2: Penelope Lem Stop

Lemmings: 32
Save: 32
Time: 6:00
Skills:
- Climber: 10
- Floater: 10
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 1
- Basher: 8
- Miner: 4
- Digger: 0

Good: A very intimating quick-as-you-can level where two lemmings are the last hope of a large crowd of lemmings trapped in a pit with a slicer slowly getting lower, and lower, and lower until it slices all the lemmings one by one in horrible carnage and...... but anyway it is an interesting puzzle that requires crafting the fastest route through the level to free the lemmings out of that death pit.
Bad: You can easily backroute this level and skip having to go through the entire left and bottom part of the level.

Nessy

7-3: How do we get up there!

Lemmings: 50
Save: 50
Time: 4:00
Skills:
- Climber: 2
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 1
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 8
- Basher: 1
- Miner: 2
- Digger: 2

Good: Interesting "Just A Minute"-type level concept where the main obstacle is getting to a hard-to-reach area of the level as fast as possible. Forward planning and timing are essential and the only way to pass this level.
Bad: But oh my goodness the time limit in this level is so incredibly tight. Sometimes you can have the solution craved out but because of a few little details you got wrong you run out of time. Sometimes you can do everything as optimal as possible and you still run out of time. Sometimes you do everything correct and yet to add salt to injury there is a freakin' switch next to the exit that closes a door. If the crowd does not pass this door by that time then you are s**t out of luck even if you reached the exit before time runs out. I mentioned that this was an interesting "Just A Minute-type" level and it is, but not even the time limit in the "Just A Minute" levels were this brutal. To make matters worse this level is very early on in the game, which makes it more frustrating to new players to come across this level so early on in their playthrough. Even the most patient people in the world would rage at this level or at least skip it (like I did). To summarize: this one isn't a winner in my book :( :(

mobius

Quote from: Nessy on June 01, 2018, 02:01:31 AM
7-3: How do we get up there!

Lemmings: 50
Save: 50
Time: 4:00
Skills:
- Climber: 2
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 1
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 8
- Basher: 1
- Miner: 2
- Digger: 2

Good: Interesting "Just A Minute"-type level concept where the main obstacle is getting to a hard-to-reach area of the level as fast as possible. Forward planning and timing are essential and the only way to pass this level.
Bad: But oh my goodness the time limit in this level is so incredibly tight. Sometimes you can have the solution craved out but because of a few little details you got wrong you run out of time. Sometimes you can do everything as optimal as possible and you still run out of time. Sometimes you do everything correct and yet to add salt to injury there is a freakin' switch next to the exit that closes a door. If the crowd does not pass this door by that time then you are s**t out of luck even if you reached the exit before time runs out. I mentioned that this was an interesting "Just A Minute-type" level and it is, but not even the time limit in the "Just A Minute" levels were this brutal. To make matters worse this level is very early on in the game, which makes it more frustrating to new players to come across this level so early on in their playthrough. Even the most patient people in the world would rage at this level or at least skip it (like I did). To summarize: this one isn't a winner in my book :( :(

I kept wanting to review but forgetting. XD A lot of things can be said about this level.

This is imo the hardest and worst level in the game. It's the worst example of a poor time limit. I'm actually half convinced that was a mistake and they intended on 5:00 or more. It wouldn't be the only mistake in the game.

The level minus the time limit is actually decently difficult (especially considering its spot in the game and it's relative simplicity). It makes good use of doors. The beginning area is more complicated than it looks at first. There seem to be multiple approaches but actually only a few really work.
The door near the exit forces a unique approach where as Nessy said you need to get the crowd caught up to the worker in time, which is sort of novel.

So the level would be fun and tough enough with out the time limit shenanigan. It spoiled what was otherwise a very good level.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


mobius

7-4 There's Only One Way Down!

Lemmings: 25
Save: 10
Time: 5:00
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 5
- Blocker: 5
- Builder: 5
- Basher: 0
- Miner: 5
- Digger: 0


Good: I like the wood textured background

Bad: Why does this level exist? Especially at this spot!? This would work on the first or second column. There's no challenge what-so-ever and it's not the least bit interesting. It doesn't even work as a breather level; it just feels silly and pointless especially after the last level which was the hardest in the game!

Sadly this is an example of the pattern that spoiled other games of similar nature (imo) like Oh No More Lemmings, Chips Challenge, etc: A poor selection of levels.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

7-5 What a Fantastic Pair of Birds

Lemmings: 20
Save: 20
Time: 5:00
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 0
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 4
- Basher: 2
- Miner: 4
- Digger: 1


Good: This was a great level in my opinion where the limited skillset makes figuring out how to control the crowd, getting to the bottom of this level, and bypassing the bird traps a nice challenge.

Bad: The level requires a bit too much terrain to mine through near the exit which is okay for me on its own but combined with the time limit it makes this level an unnecessary time cruncher. Honestly that's it. Another thing I wanted to throw in is that I personally dislike the bird traps because when I was little the sound they made when a lemming got caught in them would scare me so much :scared: To this day I still can't hear it :XD:

Nessy

Let's get this rolling again! :)


7-6: The Lone Ranger

Lemmings: 100
Save: 90
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 2
- Bomber: 20
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 5
- Basher: 0
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 0


Good: There is an interesting puzzle aspect to this level where you need to figure out how to create a splatform for a crowd of lemmings that are making their way towards this fatal fall through multiple teleporter rooms. There are multiple ways to go about this.

Bad: Making the splatform is the only true puzzle in this level. The final bit of this level is the bottom floor which contains four walls that need to be taken out with well-timed bomber placements because you don't really have any other skill to help with that. Fortunately, the level does give you a margin of error and messing up once isn't the end of the level.

mobius

7-7: Swarthy Seadogs!

Lemmings: 100
Save: 99
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills:
- Climber: 1
- Floater: 1
- Bomber:
- Blocker: 10
- Builder: 10
- Basher: 10
- Miner: 10
- Digger: 10


Good: Lots of gadgets around and used in a good way. This level demonstrates the uniques of this game well. Was pretty hard for me first time. But the beginning area has multiple ways of dealing with the initial puzzle of containing/saving the crowd. One of my favorites.

Bad: when the buzz saws are not moving they are not harmful; this is a bit misleading and confusing and isn't demonstrated well.

everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

7-8: Build 'em up ....then bring em down

Lemmings: 50
Save: 45
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 18
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 10
- Builder: 50
- Basher: 0
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 10


Good: An interesting puzzle that teaches players how to build across large gaps without accidentally building too high to create lethal falls. It also teaches players how to use destructive skills to stop builders midway to land on the multiple safe platforms.

Bad: I don't think the level itself is bad, but it is a level that would have worked better a bit earlier in the game than its current position. I would have preferred these types of levels before 4-4 than the more dragged out tutorial levels that got boring after a while.

mobius

7-9: Love Train Boogie

Lemmings: 25
Save: 25
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 80
Skills:
- Climber: 10
- Floater: 10
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 10
- Basher: 20
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 10


Good:
It's an interesting challenge of get a worker (or workers) to open the path to the exit before the crowd gets there because you're not supposed to hold them back.
This level seems inspired by or homage to 'Lemming Express' from ONML.
Despite some downsides I liked this level overall, it stumped me a little bit as a kid.


Bad:
There are several things about this level that confuse me like the many water tanks which seem to serve little purpose (draining them doesn't save time or skills you still need to build over them) and the placement of the switches makes no sense at all. I'm not sure what the intended solution is but it seems that you aren't supposed to contain the crowd; but you can, and actually that is only one of a few backroutes. Another silly method is simply going under the one way wall, and yet again the game almost seems to encourage this by giving you unnecessary amount of 20 bashers. This isn't the first or last time the game seems to have almost purposefully left in silly backroutes.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

"Love Train Boogie" is a classic Lemmings Revolution level in my opinion and I think you did it justice with your Good and Bad explanations :) I honestly don't know what is up with those water tanks and I don't think it was meant to be part of any type of intended solution. Maybe they should have focused more on preventing backroutes :evil:

- - - - - - - - - -

8-1: Bounce around the world!

Lemmings: 50
Save: 46
Time: 5:00
Skills:
- Climber: 1
- Floater: 2
- Bomber: 4
- Blocker: 4
- Builder: 6
- Basher: 0
- Miner: 0
- Digger: 2


Good: This was one of my favorite levels as a kid and it continues to be one of my favorite levels to this day. It's a puzzle involving splatforms but it is much more unobvious on how to do it and it has a tighter skillset that didn't allow for just a "build anywhere and anyway" you want type of solution. The level title is so awesome as well :) and a classic. It also has two entrances which the regular forum members around here know I love <3 although the fact that the lemmings pass the destructive terrain on the level from both sides does add a extra layer to the puzzle.

Bad: It is very easy to fall victim to super precise and finicky solutions. I don't really think it's the level designer's fault though. It's just one of those levels that has a good solution to it but it just falls victim to unintended "stuff" that can't always be patched out.

mobius

#31
I agree Bounce around the world is harder than it looks. It looks very simple but turned out to stump me for a while at first.

8-2 Lock In

Lems: 14
Save: 11
10:00 minutes

2 climbers
2 floaters
3 bombers
20 builders

Good: Another level that looks rather simple (and sparse) at first but turned out to be quite a bit harder. 20 Builders seems like 'you basically have infinite builders' :P but it is actually quite a challenge to ration them out. The main idea is a group of lemmings getting traped in an area and how to save them from outside (somewhat similar to but different then Penelope Lem Stop).

Bad: I found this level somewhat annoying because my solutions (I found at least two) always seem to rely on a lot of precision.  But that tends to happen a lot with builders in this game. I remember trying a lot of things that failed on this level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8oeHw677ek&list=PL0750E99D04921FDE&index=38
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

"Lock In" for me was one of the first WTF puzzle that had me super stumped when I was a kid! I agree with your comments and despite needing a lot of polishing it was one of the most memorable levels for me.

- - - - - - - - - -

8-3: Under and Up

Lemmings: 50
Save: 48
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 40
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 0
- Builder: 9
- Basher: 1
- Miner: 2
- Digger: 1


Good: This level was strange to say the least. I feel like there was supposed to be a decent puzzle somewhere in here and I'll say that is enough information to put that under the "Good" section.

Bad: But I don't understand this level: 1) There is a giant lava pit in the middle of the level that a weasel on top lowers by hitting a laser switch. This allows you to just build over the teleporters, walk through the now empty lava pit, and then build over the next teleporter to the exit. Was this intended? If not why lower the lava pit instead of having it as a solid backroute blocker? 2) If you try to solve the level intentionally there seems to be something very wrong with the way builders behave when you build through those doors and platforms that have been opened through switches. This makes it really hard to build out of the pit that I think is the part of the level you go under and up in represented in the level title. 3) The time limit is super tight and it is unnecessary.

mobius

Under and Up is one of the main candidates (which I mentioned earlier) as seeming to indicate that they intentionally created backroutes in some of these levels. As to why; I have no idea. While it sounds silly, given the number of glitches in the game and the shaky nature of the game's development I wouldn't be surprised if they went though the levels (as intended) and because of glitches (like what Nessy mentioned about this level) instead of fixing them, just decided to make fixes to the levels to make them easier, but who knows.
---------

8-4 Nice Shootin' Tex!

50 Lemmings
Save 42
4:00


floaters: 1
bombers: 6
blockers: 3
builders: 7
bashers: 1


Good: I assume the shooting in the title refers to getting the timing right on bombers. Aiming the builder is not really a problem as it there is a steel block as a marker (which is nice).

Bad: Other than that there isn't much to this level. It's just 1 long builder bridge, some timed bombers (blah) and sacrificing some lemmings to close the door at the top. I found this level sort of bland.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

8-5: Water way to go.

Lemmings: 30
Save: 25
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills:
- Climber: 10
- Floater: 10
- Bomber: 10
- Blocker: 10
- Builder: 10
- Basher: 10
- Miner: 10
- Digger: 10


Excellent: The pun in the title of course! :P

Good: I found this level to be quite an interesting puzzle. The top layer of this level is pretty straightforward... until you reach this certain switch in the middle layer that frees a crowd of Water Lemmings nearby. The catch is that it also activates a killer saw that will slowly start to kill the Water Lemmings one by one. In order to save them the normal Lemmings have to hit another switch that is too far away and it's pretty much impossible to hit it on time. The main puzzle revolves around going about the level in a more non-linear way.

Bad: Nothing to be honest. I guess it is pretty easy for its place and you don't really know the switch is a bad switch at first until you hit it but that's with anything in any game with stuff like this I guess!

Fun fact: I remember playing this level with my dad and when I found out what that killer switch did I refused to hit it ever again. My dad would ask me how I was going to free the Water Lemmings but I just told him I will find another way... I never did :P

mobius

Water Way to Go: one of my favorite levels in the game. During my first play of this game this was the only tier 8 level that I could solve early on and I subsequently solved (if memory serves) 9-6, 10-7, then a little later 11-6 which are both way easier then those around it as well.
I like that this level isn't too hard but isn't trivial; it's a pretty decent challenge using exclusive Revolution gadgets.
Only bad things I'd say are it's position; it's quite a bit easier then levels around it. Some of the things in the level may be a bit pointless, (like the teleporters) but they serve a nice decorative feature, as well as the crab.

fun fact: this is the only level where the teleporters make an actual sound. For whatever reason they make no sound anywhere else in the game.

This level also has some interesting challenge solutions to it.
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1059.msg39018#msg39018
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


mobius

8-6 As Quick as you Can!

Lemmings: 101
Save: 96
4:00


[I'm no longer going to carry on writing out the skills, since we can't post pictures it doesn't do much good imo]

Good:
The title refers to the theme of a race; the worker needs to make it to the switch in time to save the others. It seems very simple in retrospect but stumped me at first.

Bad:
Not a bad level idea but the idea is used several times now (Penelope Lem Stop..).  The two hatches make the solution sort of obvious when you realize that part of it and a bit trivial. I just wasn't real impressed with this level.
I don't like how building out of the pool requires two builders but it looks like 1 should be sufficient (or almost sufficient)
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

8-7: Watch Out! Evil about!

Lemmings: 50
Save: 45
Time: 6:00
Skills:
- Climber: 0
- Floater: 0
- Bomber: 2
- Blocker: 2
- Builder: 12
- Basher: 10
- Miner: 3
- Digger: 0


Good: There seems to be an interesting puzzle with making sure the weasels head out ahead of the lemmings into the teleporter that leads straight into a lava trap, and there seems to be an interesting puzzle involving a careful navigation to hit the correct switch on top to open up the platform to get into the exit.

Bad: But I stress the word "seems" a lot under the Good explanation because there is a horrible backroute where you basically just build to the exit from the right side after the weasels have fallen. You skip the entire level like this! Even if this backroute didn't exist I'm not even sure if the intended way is possible as I remember always running out of builders and having no idea what to do to converse them in that tight space that the switch needed to open up the platform to the exit was.

mobius

Quote from: Nessy on September 28, 2018, 07:09:36 PM
Good: There seems to be an interesting puzzle with making sure the weasels head out ahead of the lemmings into the teleporter that leads straight into a lava trap, and there seems to be an interesting puzzle involving a careful navigation to hit the correct switch on top to open up the platform to get into the exit.

Bad: But I stress the word "seems" a lot under the Good explanation because there is a horrible backroute where you basically just build to the exit from the right side after the weasels have fallen. You skip the entire level like this! Even if this backroute didn't exist I'm not even sure if the intended way is possible as I remember always running out of builders and having no idea what to do to converse them in that tight space that the switch needed to open up the platform to the exit was.

I too wondered for a long time if the apparent intended solution was even possible; and I can say it is. :D It is quite a challenge though. It was a fun to figure out how to conserve builders but at the same time sort of feels like it wasn't intentional...
Spoiler
I think you must sacrifice the lemming that flips the switch on top.

This is a case where it almost seems to me like the level was designed as a ruse and the 'backroute' was actually intentional. It's just another one of many levels here where I really don't know what to make of it; or what they were thinking when designing it.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

I'm not sure it is possible to revive this thread, but it doesn't hurt to give it a try!

8-8: Take Her to Warp Speed, Captain

Lemmings: 25
Save: 12
Time: 8:00
Release Rate: 5
Skills: 10 of each

Good: Introduces the speed-up pad.  The save requirement is lenient enough that you can lose a few to the spiked log and still pass the level.

Bad: One way to avoid the spiked log is to mine and bash underneath the speed-up pad, bypassing it altogether.  This more or less defeats its purpose.  Also, although it barely works, the attached screenshot illustrates a ridiculous backroute.

mobius

#40
8-9 Bridges

53 Lemmings
Save 48
Time: 3:30


50 normal lemmings, 3 acid lemmings.
skills are seen in the pic attached



Good: the puzzle of how to get the lemmings to flip the switch inside the acid pool is somewhat interesting, as is saving the normal lemmings, who need a splatform. [Actually the level overall looks more interesting than it  really is imo]

Bad: There's a lot of trickery in this level, whether intended or not. First because of the odd way acid pools work; you have to figure out that you can't simply drain the pool then let a lemming go into it to flip the switch; lemmings ordinarily walk on top of an invisible platform over drained acid pools (which seems like a glitch to me). BUT acid lemmings walking on acid when it is being drained will sink down with it.
Next the giant bridge over the lava pool is completely hidden meaning you just have to assume it's there because one builder clearly isn't enough to get across there. Of course it's pretty obvious this is the case; but then why hide it in the first place?
There's also the possible solution of mining into the acid; which is most certainly a glitch
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

8-10: Walk the plank or join the crew?

Lemmings: 100 (2 hatches, both normal lemmings)
Save: 75
Time: 15:00
Release Rate: 50 (both hatches)
Skills: 20 of each

Good: A very challenging layout makes this level quite an ordeal despite the extremely generous skill set.  The top group has to deal with a large retractable wall whose switch is controlled by a weasel, but the weasel cannot be released until the bottom group is released from their starting area.  Creating the path for the bottom group is also non-trivial; there is a legitimate choice between building a long bridge directly to the exit (walking the plank), or teleporting to the top to unite with the others (joining the crew).

Bad: One's first attempt will almost certainly be ruined by the teleporter, which leads to a bottomless pit if entered from the right side.  Also the skill set and time limit seem almost two generous.  If there were 10 of each skill and a 10-minute time limit, the level would not be appreciably harder.

Nessy

"Walk the plank or join the crew?" was actually one of my favorite levels as a kid and I was able to do both solutions assuming that long bridge directly to the exit strategy is intended. I'm actually not sure but it works pretty well :evil: I was also never sure about that weird teleporter behavior and why it spits you out the other side. Wonder if it was it supposed to be an intended troll or a bug?

9-1: Bamboo Maze

Lemmings: 50
Save: 48
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 49 (I think)
Skills: 1 Climber, 1 Blocker, 10 Bashers, and 10 Diggers

Good: Visually beautiful looking level and insanely fun to solve as there are multiple solutions through the maze and none of them are trivial especially with the lack of builder skills and only having one blocker skill which makes crowd control more important.

Bad: It's still very easy to backroute this level and I can't help but wonder what exactly was the intended solution supposed to be, if any? There just seems to be a lot of obstacles on the level that don't seem to get used (such as the switch that opens up the 2-lemming countdown wall at the bottom right) or they just seem to be so insanely easy to bypass due to a lack of steel in some areas.

mobius

in regards to "Walk the Plank or Join the Crew"
Wow: I never thought of that meaning for the title of that level!

Teleporters always work this way in the game: whatever direction a lemming is facing when entering = that's the direction it will exit. And left facing always comes out on the left side and visa versa. Still doesn't explain if this was an oversight on this particular level or not. My guess is like many other things; the production rush prevented them from making cleaner teleporting mechanics.


9-2 Can't get there from here

50 Lemmings
49 Save
6:00 minutes


Good: Tough puzzle especially for beginners.
Spoiler
The main trick is climb bombing
. But it also offers a decent builder preservation challenge and a turn around challenge yet still has a few different possible solutions.

Bad: For veterans of L1 and older games there's not much of a challenge as that trick is first used in Mayhem of L1.

This was one of the hardest in the game for myself at this point on my first playthrough and stumped me for a long time. I had not yet solved said Mayhem level at this time either. (I hadn't even gotten to that point in Mayhem).
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

"Can't get there from here" is another one of my favorites and one that did truly stump me back then :)

9-3: Lemmings Four the Drop

Lemmings: 4
Save: 4
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 69
Skills: 1 Floater, 4 Bombers, 6 Builders, Four Diggers

Excellent: The pun in the title :P

Good: A nice, simple puzzle revolving around the theme of four lemmings having to be released from their initial areas in the right order so that they can help the other lemmings in the level.

Bad: It's way too easy of a level for its late position especially considering the fact that it's surrounded by "Can't get there from here" and "Booby trap". This level would have been perfect towards the very beginning of the game in order to ease players into actual puzzles instead of having the huge amount of tutorial levels it had.

LemSteven

9-4: Booby trap

Lemmings: 50
Save: 46
Time: 8:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 5 Climbers, 10 Floaters, 5 Bombers, 2 Blockers, 3 Builders, 3 Bashers, 3 Miners, 2 Diggers

Good: A race to hit the switch and release the crowd a weasel-induced massacre occurs.  The switch on the way to the exit makes it so the crowd has to be reasonably bunched up, otherwise the stragglers will become weasel punching bags.

Bad: Wow, where do I start? 

First of all, the process of hitting the switch is so simple it's almost trivial.  This is by far the least interesting of the levels that have used this theme.

Next, the teleporter is glitched almost to the point of being game-breaking.  It's designed so that the lemmings turn back toward the exit as they are exiting the teleporter; unfortunately, sometimes I've had multiple lemmings get sucked back into the teleporter going the other way, returning to the start where the weasels are waiting for them.  This entire problem could have been eliminated by simply reversing the positions of the teleporter and exit, or even eliminating the teleporter altogether and just moving the exit down.

Third, it only takes two bridges to make a wall that holds back the weasels, which defeats the entire "quick as you can" concept.

Lastly, What is with the switches being in the form of those weird boxes?  This is the only level in the game in which they appear, and they don't appear to serve any purpose that can't be fulfilled by switches or laser gates.

mobius

Quote from: LemSteven on June 11, 2020, 12:09:25 AM
Lastly, What is with the switches being in the form of those weird boxes?  This is the only level in the game in which they appear, and they don't appear to serve any purpose that can't be fulfilled by switches or laser gates.

Actually they also appear in "T is for teamwork" half sunken into the ground near the entrance. Lemmings trigger them there. I don't have an answer to your question other than they're a bit smaller than gates or switches? Also it appears like they're hit box could be larger and lemmings/weasels just need to be near them to trigger.

9-5 Hit 'n' Run

11 Lemmings
save: 10
10:00
10 climbers, bombers, blockers, bashers, miners and diggers. 2 Builders, 0 floaters.


Good: An interesting challenge where most of the level is down upside down.
This is one of the few late game levels with the bright candy land background.

Bad: I've never figured out what the intended solution is. Because every solution I've seen involves glitching through the gravity inverter near the lava pool and flipping the switch while still upside down.

The layout of this level feels odd and sort of slapped together. Somethings don't seem to really have much use like the speed up pads. The weasel goes through two which cancel each other so he walks at normal speed; thus he's not really much of a threat.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

Quote from: mobius on June 15, 2020, 12:20:41 AMActually they also appear in "T is for teamwork" half sunken into the ground near the entrance.

Good catch!  I forgot that they appeared in that level.

Quote from: mobius on June 15, 2020, 12:20:41 AMBad: I've never figured out what the intended solution is. Because every solution I've seen involves glitching through the gravity inverter near the lava pool and flipping the switch while still upside down.

I think flipping the switch while still upside down is the intended solution.  I'm not sure it's possible to get to it any other way.  Although I'm not sure I'd call building just before the gravity inverter a glitch.

9-6: The high dive

Lemmings: 40
Save: 20
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 5
Skills: 10 Climbers, 10 Bombers, 10 Blockers, 10 Builders, 10 Bashers, 10 Diggers

Good: A fun, open-ended level with a variety of possible solutions.
Bad: In the initial release of the game, this level was unplayable due to a glitch.  Fortunately this was fixed in later versions.  Also, the level is way too easy for its position in the game; it is more suitable for the 5th or 6th column.

mobius

oh duh... I forgot about building over it.

9-7 Battle o'Lemmeckburn (not sure of spelling as I'm going off memory; Pirohiko's videos are in Japanese)
Lemmings: 50
Save: 43
10:00

Good: *finally* we're getting into the really good (and tough) levels! (imho). This one offers quite a complex challenge, relatively speaking; there's a lot going on. There's a deadly fall height to mitigate, a giant birb, a pool being lowered and raised continually, another weasel to get around, and the exit area which is no simple task in of itself. There are a number of ways to get up and through to the balloon but all aren't trivial as skill conversation is a big thing here. The low save requirement allows for a variety of solutions and it's not aggravating, but also allows for more challenging solutions as well.

Bad: pirohiko demonstrates a backroute bypassing most of the level; though I'd argue this is equally or harder to execute and/or see. I can't think of much bad to say about this level.

Does anyone know what the title is reference to?
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain



Nessy

9-8: Feeling Gravity's Pull

Lemmings: 56
Save: 50
Time: 6:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 2 Climbers, 10 Bombers, 2 Blockers, 12 Builders, 4 Bashers, 4 Miners, 8 Diggers

Good: Oh boy this one's a fairly tough one! There are a ton of moving parts to the level such as switches, lasers, teleporters, and upside-down and it isn't trivial on how to approach them all especially with a deceptively large amount of skills.

Bad: I'm going off of memory so I'm not 100% sure but I think that it is possible to hit the switches in such an order that the lower platforms over the balloon are opened before the top ones are which leads to the main crowd of lemmings actually splatting as they fall towards the balloon. There is no indication as to what switch opens what and it comes down to a small amount of trail and error. Nothing too major but it can still suck for it to happen after going through all the trouble of solving the rest of the level.

LemSteven

#51
9-9: It's a hard life

Lemmings: 50 (2 entrances)
Save: 45
Time: 7:00
Release Rate: 69
Skills: 1 Climber, 2 Floaters, 4 Bombers, 4 Blockers, 8 Builders, 1 Basher, 2 Miners, 5 Diggers

Good: A nice puzzle in which the small group by the exit must dig out a tunnel for the larger crowd.  Unlike "Ice Station Lemming" in ONML, the main crowd cannot get up to the exit without assistance from the other group.

Bad: The retractable wall is virtually useless, since you cannot build in front of it.  The first time I played the level, I failed because I had the entire crowd stuck in front of the retractable wall, just under the exit, with no way to get them up.  Also, connecting a bridge to the completed miner tunnel can be a bit finicky, requiring some precise builder placement.

mobius

#52
It just occurs to me now that the Release Rate of "69" appears suspiciously frequently in this game....

9-10 Waste Not Want Not (part 1)

Lemmings: 10
Save: 10
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 1 Climber, 1 Floaters, 10 Bombers, 10 Blockers, 2 Builders, 10 Basher, 10 Miners, 10 Diggers



Good: This one was a major stumper for me back in the day. It offers a really interesting challenge of classic Lemmings skill allotment combined with a timing/resource management puzzle around the doors near the entrance area. There are a lot of possible paths to take. It's not clear at all, for example, where the climber/worker should go from the start, or in what order he should do things. Also how to manage the crowd is a big problem. And there are a rather large number of solutions to top it off.
This is one of my favorites of the whole game actually.

Bad: honestly can't think of anything other than usual game issues that effect every level so that doesn't count. (like 'background' graphics getting in the way of sight).
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

9-11: Ouch me head.

Lemmings: 50
Save: 50
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 1 Climber, 1 Floater, 15 Builders, 2 Miners, 2 Diggers

Good: The level is quite a bit trickier than it initially looks, due to the 100% save requirement.  The first issue is how to deal with the crowd.  Experienced players will immediately know to make a digger pit, but this may not be obvious to first-timers.  Completing the route can then be done in several ways, but none of them are trivial, and many of them require quite a bit of work.  My personal favorite solution is to work backwards -- have the trailblazer build a long bridge initially, float down, turn around, and build from left to right over the water, using the steel as stepping stones.  Then send up a climber to mine the original bridge, and release the crowd.

Bad: With proper builder placement, the direct approach of building from right to left works just fine.  It is in fact possible to complete the level with just 5 builders and a digger -- nothing else.  I really wish at least one of the drops was a splat fall to prevent this from working.

Nessy

10-1: Topsy Turvy

Lemmings: 100
Save: 98
Time: 10:00
Skills: 2 Climbers, 1 Bomber, 2 Blockers, 20 Builders, 7 Diggers

Good: A very fun and tough puzzle involving the bottom hatch of lemmings having to go towards the top of the level to save the top hatch of lemmings. However, instead of having the lemmings fight against gravity to climb up the level they have to take advantage of the gravity inverters in order to go downwards which is actually going upwards.

Bad: Because of the large quantity of builders you can kind of backroute the level by having the top hatch of lemmings take advantage of all those builders to pretty much save themselves. Also it's a shame that the "monster" that acts as a hazard in this level doesn't appear in any other level :(

mobius

10-2 The Legend of Smelly Belly

Lemmings: 15
Save: 15
Time: 10:00
Skills:
15 Climber, 10 bomber, 20 Builders, 10 Diggers

Good: Funny title. Interesting puzzle. This is the only place in the game I think where you get lemmings locked in a steel room with the only way out to re-open the time door. The excess skills make the challenge focus solely on how to deal with circumventing the weasel traps.


Bad: I can't remember correctly; it seems like there may be a backroute of letting them all our of the entrance room without getting to the gates but I'm doubt it.
The three middle weasel tiers look identical at first glance but they're not. The gates are offset such that building over some are easy while the bottom one is harder.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

10-3: Where's Carol Vorderlem?

Lemmings: 10
Save: 4
Time: 20:00
Release Rate: 25
Skills: 2 Climbers, 2 Floaters, 6 Bombers, 6 Blockers, 10 Builders, 10 Bashers, 10 Miners, 10 Diggers

Good: An interesting and fun puzzle in which the crowd has to divide and conquer to reach all four laser gates, while the two trailblazers prepare the route and ultimately release the lemmings from their "prisons".  It is quite satisfying to save all 10 lemmings, and I like how the lemmings hit the gravity inverter at the top of the level and fall directly into the balloon.

Bad: Why on earth is the save requirement only 4/10?  I'll admit that 10/10 is pretty challenging, but 4/10 allows you to completely ignore rescuing three of the four "groups"!  The 20-minute time limit doesn't make much sense to me, either.  Even if you don't multitask the digging at the beginning, I don't see how it could take that long.

kaywhyn

Fascinating. 3 reviews by the same 3 people who have revived the thread and been reviewing the levels repeatedly all in the same day. I recently reinstalled the game, and I definitely would jump on the wagon and help you gentlemen with the reviews, but I got other priorities atm, namely, beating Lemmings United first. You three will probably even be done with all the levels before I can join in! We'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

We've (3) played the game years ago. You're welcome to comment on any past level.
Also this may slow down as we're getting to levels that are harder and I can't remember all the solutions. I might just have to fire up the game again if I'm to remember them all which is a chore unfortunately :(

On Where's Carol Vorderlem; I agree about the time limit; except that I'm glad it's there as it allows for a 1-worker-lem solution (and 100% I *think*). :D Would not be possible (that I could derive back in the day) otherwise. There's actually barely enough time for it; the worker must loop back and forth through the entire level several times. It's quite possible there's a faster method but I'm the only person to have tested it.


10-4 Use the Force, Lem

Lemmings: 100
Save: 99
Time: 3:45
Release Rate: 36
Skills:
1 Climbers, 2 Floaters, 1 Blockers, 2 Builders, 1 Bashers, 2 Miners, 2 Diggers

Good: It's a good timing and multitasking challenge. There's a lot to do at the very start and requires quick thinking to contain/save the crowd. There's lemmings moving in all directions (that title (to come up in a later level) would be better suited here). Nice reference in the title.

Bad: The doors blocking off the pool and associated switch doesn't serve any purpose that I can see; unless it's to trick you into thinking you need to block the crowd in on the steel ledge. But I don't think this is possible as there is no way to free him.  You can bypass the switch the opens the splat-form door; by just building your own.

I forgot you can mine into the door (once it's closed) to stop the minder/digger etc, to create a wall at the top area. This is not required.

everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

Quote from: mobius on July 09, 2020, 02:23:53 AM
We've (3) played the game years ago. You're welcome to comment on any past level.
Also this may slow down as we're getting to levels that are harder and I can't remember all the solutions. I might just have to fire up the game again if I'm to remember them all which is a chore unfortunately :(

Yes, I'm well aware that the three of you played the game all those years ago, as indicated by the year the thread started on the first page. I was just fascinated by how all 3 of you reviewed 3 levels in succession on the very same day just recently.

I've only completed all of Lemmings Revolution once, but that was several years ago, I think 3-5 years (possibly even longer) ago, and so my recollection of the levels is very shaky. If I ever do join in on the reviewing game, I for sure will have to fire up and play through the game to refresh my memory of the levels. I do recall there being a level where pause is disabled, the equivalent of the frenzy gimmick that used to exist in NL. Even then, it's still a very easy level.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

LemSteven

10-5: Scale that wall....
Lemmings: 50
Save: 46
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 3 Climbers, 1 Floater, 3 Bombers, 3 Blockers, 5 Builders, 2 Bashers

Good: Getting someone up to the switch at the top of the wall proves to be quite challenging, as a weasel is constantly opening and closing a retractable wall that will knock the climber off the level.  Several switches in different parts of the level must be flipped to give the weasel more walking space (so he hits the switch less often) and to speed up the lemming that climbs the wall.

Bad: With good timing, you can reach the top of the wall without activating the speed-up pad.  Meanwhile, with poor timing, it is possible to fail even if you do activate the speed-up pad.  Without many extra skills to stall with, getting the timing right is a matter of trial and error.

mobius

#61
10-6 Going in All Directions

Lemmings: 50
Save: 44
Time: 3:15
Release Rate: 69
Skills: 3 Climbers, 3 Floater, 5 Bombers, 5 Blockers, 7 Builders


Good: There's a few obstacles to get through to the balloon which requires some switches. There's two paths to take to get there and its not obvious which is better (both are possible). There's no destructive skills which limits things a bit.


Bad: Fairly easy for it's position. I don't personally care for the path that builds through the thin platform as this is a non-intuitive thing for new players, but veterans will see that path right away. One of the blade traps doesn't do anything (I think the one near the entrance), not sure if that's a glitch or the hitbox is too high or something but this can be misleading, cause the other one works. Also bomber glitch (like many levels of this nature) make it rather trivial. Also the time limit is rather tight but doesn't add any interest.

This is one of the few levels where you can bomb near a pool that isn't surrounded by steel and see a graphical glitch as a result.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

10-7: Rocket Science
Lemmings: 50
Save: 30
Time: 5:30
Release Rate: 99
Skills: 2 Climbers, 5 Bombers, 2 Blockers, 16 Builders, 4 Bashers, 2 Miners

Good: The level appears intimidating at first, as the lemmings quickly get trapped underneath a timed door, which prevents you from simply building out of the starting area.  There are several ways to free the crowd, but none of them are trivial.

Bad: The switch on the left ends up being completely useless because the water pool is already drained at the start of the level.  The second half of the level is very straightforward and uninteresting.  The steel blocks in the large wall end up being more of an annoyance than a challenge.

Nessy

10-8: Time is of the essence!

Lemmings: 50
Save: 48
Time: 3:20
Skills: 2 Bombers, 2 Blockers, 12 Builders, 1 Basher, 1 Digger

Good: A fairly fun, if straightforward, time cruncher level where builder placement is key, but so is when to release the rest of the crowd to hit that sweet spot where you aren't too early and the crowd goes pass the builder and dies and not too late as to cause the time limit to hit zero.

Bad: This level could have easily switched places with "How do we get up there!" as both are time crunchers and "How do we get up there!" is WAY, WAY, WAY more difficult (at least in my opinion and you can read my rant on it here). It's also the only level with a green balloon, which is a shame.

mobius

10-9
Odd Jobs

Lemmings: 100
Save: 99
6:00

climber: 2 floater: 2 bomber: 3 basher: 2 miner: 4 digger: 2


Good: Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's the only (non-tutorial) level in the game with zero builders. It's a nice water lemming challenge, with pools and switches. And a decent no builder challenge.

Bad: It's not very difficult for it's place. Woudl've worked better earlier in the pack imo.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Nessy

10-10: Reduce and Simmer

Lemmings: 20
Save: 16
Time: 10:00
Skills: 20 of each skill

Good: Nice, easy level with multiple approaches.

Bad: This is one of the weirdest levels in the whole game. First of all, this level is really late in the game and it's extremely easy with it's huge skillset. The only real threat is the weasel, and even he is easy to avoid with a very simple crowd containment setup at the beginning which can literally be two blockers that don't even need to be save. After that you can just assign a climber to every lemming in the level and climb up to the exit. This level also has this insane glitch where if you try to go through certain walls the lemming just stops, does a weird movement, and dies. I feel like it was intended to be a breather level, because I don't really see any type of "intended" solution that even uses a majority of all the skills.

mobius

#66
10-11 Waste not...want not. part 2

Lemmings: 10
Save: 10
10:00
RR: 50 (not changeable)

climbers: 1
floaters: 1
bombers: 3
blockers: 1
builder: 2
bashers: 1
miners: 3
diggers: 2


-One of only two sets of repeated levels in the game. There are a few decoration and level modifications but its very similar to Waste Not Want not part 1. The skillset is significantly reduced.


Good: It's different enough from the first level to require some thinking on a different solution. Most of the solutions from the first are not possible here; the RR is no longer changeable; and there's extra steel in a few places, and missing terrain near the exit. Even so; there still are a number of solutions but its very difficult. A lot of logical thinking and crowd manipulation involved for a glitch free solution. One of the hardest levels in the game imo.

Bad: This is one of the last levels I ever solved in the game; the four levels in the bottom corner of the map remained unlocked for a very long time. I've never been certain what the intended solution was; I can't remember off hand for certain if I ever found a really neat solution that is glitch or shenanigan free but I think I did. Of course as usual there are a few solutions abusing said shenanigans like the bomber glitch, making it easier.

edit: the more I look at it the more I think this level was an edit of part 1 to remove backroutes, and they decided to keep both since part 1 was still a good challenge. But if that was true then why on earth didn't they fix the numerous other badly backrouted levels in the game?
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

10-12: Touch the ground turn around

Lemmings: 20
Save: 19
Time: 1:35
Release Rate: 69
Skills: 1 Bomber, 1 Blocker, 4 Builders

Good: The level forces you to be as efficient as possible.  The release rate must be increased to 99 immediately, and the second-last lemming needs to be made a blocker very quickly after he lands, otherwise the bridge won't be finished before the crowd catches up.  If everything is done perfectly, the crowd catches up to the builder just as he finishes.

Bad: The level is a one-trick pony that has all the intrigue of "Diet Lemmingaid" or "All or Nothing" from the original game.

mobius

believe it or not; Touch the ground actually stumped me on my first playthrough. Keep in mind; this was a time before I even solved the whole L1 main game so a lot of L1 tricks were still new to me.

11-1: Which Switch is Which?

Lemmings: 50
Save: 48
Time: 4:00
Release Rate: 10
Skills: 3 climbers, 3 floaters, 50 bombers (lolololol) 3 blockers, 5 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger

Good:
One of only 3 levels in the game with vanishing terrain. The initial puzzle is a think/react fast to save the crowd cause the entrance pit is disappearing. After that it's a rather simple puzzle of figuring out how to get the crowd to the balloon.

Bad: Like the title implies; it's another game of figuring out which switch does what. The platform under the entrance area is hidden before opening meaning you might think you need to build them out or do something else which is misleading and may be really frustrating for some players. Again however; like many other levels of this nature; it's almost obvious cause there's really no other solution; so then again; why hide it in the first place?
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

11-2: When Two Tribes Go to War

Lemmings: 20 (10 acid lemmings, 10 water lemmings)
Save: 18
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 10 for the acid lemming hatch, 50 for the water lemming hatch
Skills: 1 Climber, 1 Floater, 20 of everything else

Good: A challenging puzzle involving managing two separate groups of lemmings, who must follow different paths to a common exit.  The precarious starting position of the acid lemmings means you have to be on your toes right away, and bringing them to safety is not a simple task.  Meanwhile, the water lemmings start off in relative safety, but they will ultimately need the acid lemmings to rescue them.  Overall, it's a very fun level despite the extremely generous skill set.

Bad: The title is a bit of a misnomer, as the two groups really don't get in each other's way at all.  In fact, it is possible to complete the level by only assigning skills to acid lemmings.  It would be more interesting if the water lemmings needed to do something to help the acid lemmings, such as building a splatform.

mobius

11-3 The Bash Street Kids

Lemmings 70
Save: 64
10:00

10 climbers 1 floater, 5 bombers, 10 blockers, 1 builder, 1 basher, 10 miners, 10 diggers


Good: Another two tribes type of level, similar to the last one; this time with a more limited skillset. Both sides have to do a little work to make a path for the others.

Is the title a reference to the 'Back Street Boys'??

Bad: It's pretty obvious where the 1 builder and basher are needed. And apart from containing the bottom crowd and getting the worker(s) to do the simple jobs they need to do there's not really much going on here. It's also fairly obvious a bomber is needed to get through the thin wall on the bottom (although there are other glitchy methods). You can save much more than the required 64 without any glitches.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain



LemSteven

11-4: Let's get those fingers moving

Lemmings: 15
Save: 12
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 15 Climbers, 1 Floater, 5 Builders, 2 Miners

Good: A near-repeat of "The Abyss" that highlights a completely different route.  The intended solution will use every skill and save every lemming.

Bad: It's way too easy for its position.  Also, although it really doesn't affect the solution much, there is a big chunk of steel that is actually mineable.

In terms of the difficulty curve, I would have switched this level with "How do we get up there".

mobius

#73
11-5 Something Fishy!
Lems: 50
Save: 49
5:00

Good:
A moderately complex level with several different approaches or paths looking possible at the start. It's not obvious where you need to go. The first level (I think) with a entrance with a deadly fall. There's a whole area and some switches which are a red herring and I guess that's what the title is referring to?

Bad: On the other hand the last thing mentioned above is also a tad lame imo; as quite a few levels in this game fall under this category; having a whole section of the level or at least a switch or device that ends up just being either intentionally a red herring or due to backroutes or who knows why; totally useless. I would've rather seen more complex and interesting functions put to use from the switches and other unique game elements.
It's also easy to run into the basher/builder glitch in this level.

everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

Due to having LPed and completed Lemmings Revolution recently, I thought I revive this thread and pick it up where it last left off. I hope you gentlemen don't mind if I do :P

Here is the link to my LP if any of you are interested in it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJvZA2nsGzLZhfwJfZq88Ka9. Also, I've made it easy to find the levels by putting in chapters, i.e, use the timestamps in the video description. In particular, after this level is reviewed, you will want to start at Part 12 for the remainder of the review game.

This is my first time I ever participated in a review thread, so let's see if I can do this correct :D

11-6: T is for Teamwork

Lemmings: 2

Save: 2

Time: 10 minutes

Release Rate: 99

Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 50 bombers, 10 blockers, 14 builders, and 10 each of bashers, miners, and diggers

Good: A nice any-way-you-want level that features multiple laser gates/levers, and even weasels. IMO no solution is trivial, I think any you find is challenging in some way. You have a lot of skills available, so you can easily recover and try out stuff until you find the right switch that gets you to the balloon.

Bad: Like any level that has laser gates/levers, you don't know their effects until you try them. Especially since there's so many of them in this level, this can potentially be a very time-consuming level, where you might not even activate the right switch to access the balloon until the very end. However, the correct one is luckily easy to memorize.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

#75
11-7 Don't Let Them Out!

50 Lemmings, save 40
5:00


2 climbers, 2 floaters  5 bombers, blockers and builders, 1 basher, miner and digger.

Good: This level is quite notorious for me and super tough as well. This one remained unsolved for a long time and I saw that Kaywhyn also had difficulty with it. The apparently intended puzzle of 'going the backway' or working backrwards and getting around the weasels (or killing the weasels) AND
Spoiler
climb bombing, a trick used rarely in this game
AND containing the crowd; there is a lot going on, and a lot to figure out. I'd say it's one of the hardest in the game.
Spoiler
and the solution of having the weasels walk into the saw is pretty clever imo

Bad:
1) The title is silly as whichever solution you do, you absolutely have to 'let them weasels out'.
2) There's a pool up top that drains immediately for no reason then never refills. Until you figure this out you might worry that one of the switches refills it. There's also some other minor glitchy stuff like the way the bottom pool is partially walk-overable.
3) the switch/door near the beginning is completely pointless.
4) this level has a 50-50 fall near the beginning
5) Until Kaywhyn's LP demonstrated the 'intended' solution I honestly never knew about it. It is as mentioned above. There's some annoying timing on getting the weasels to be facing the right way to kill them, the bottoms ones that is. And bomber timing. There's another new trap that only appears in this level but fortunately isn't a big deal, but makes no sound.
But then of course there is the horrible backroute of bashing/building under the one-way-wall. This solution still isn't easy, mind you but it's the only one I knew about, and also the one in pirohiko's LP.
6) The timer is way too tight and overall the intended solution seems to be way too precise, if Kaywhyn's almost 2 hour long attempt is any indication.

Despite the flaws; this level actually inspired a lot of my custom content over the years :D
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

^ I'm glad you mentioned the intended solution to "Don't Let Them Out!"  I love the overall idea, but the execution is absolutely insane.  I spent several hours getting it to work, and most of that time was spent optimizing the solution to get it within the time limit.  When a 5-minute time limit ends up coming down to the last few seconds, it's probably too tight.



11-8: Speedy Gonzalez
Lemmings: 53 (3 entrances)
Save: 52
Release Rate: 99/1/99
Time: 4:00
Skills: 1 floater, 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 3 builders, 1 miner

Good: You have to strategically place a blocker on the retractable floor so that he can be released and saved later.  I also like the way the splatform for the crowd doubles as a means to reach the critical switch to drain the water tank.

Bad: Although the theme has been used on prior levels, I think the level would be more interesting if "Speedy Gonzalez" had to race to catch the crowd before they fell.  Instead, you're given a blocker/bomber to delay the crowd as long as necessary.  I'll also mention that an unnecessary amount of precision is required for several skill assignments, most notably the final miner.

kaywhyn

^ Hey LemSteven, thanks for continuing where the review last left off. It can definitely be finished off, particularly since there aren't many levels remaining. Most importantly, can this be done before 2022 is over? Assuming reviews by the same person don't happen until after at least 48 hours has passed, and with 19 levels left to review, then yea, it can theoretically be done, with about a few weeks of the year remaining :laugh:

I will have to agree with this here:

Quote
Bad: Although the theme has been used on prior levels, I think the level would be more interesting if "Speedy Gonzalez" had to race to catch the crowd before they fell.  Instead, you're given a blocker/bomber to delay the crowd as long as necessary.

I think I even mentioned it in my LP too that it would had been more satisfying to essentially beat the crowd there with making the splatform in time while keeping the crowd moving rather than holding them back with the blocker. Too bad the walk isn't long enough for it to work even without a blocker provided, but the creators can easily remedy that by extending the walkway and making it longer for the top left entrance.

Quote from: LemSteven on October 30, 2022, 04:14:18 AM
^ I'm glad you mentioned the intended solution to "Don't Let Them Out!"  I love the overall idea, but the execution is absolutely insane.  I spent several hours getting it to work, and most of that time was spent optimizing the solution to get it within the time limit.  When a 5-minute time limit ends up coming down to the last few seconds, it's probably too tight.



Agreed, it was very frustrating, given that in my LP it took me nearly 2 hours before I finally succeeded! In addition, I occasionally ran into the annoying thing of sometimes lemmings surviving while other times going splat at a certain height where there's a 50:50 chance of it triggering, similar to "Tanks a lot," which seems to be the level most players will commonly encounter it, depending on if it's patched up or not.



11-9: Goonies

Lemmings: 50

Save: 48

Time: 3:45

Release Rate: 50

Skills: 10-of-everything

Good: Nice breather level with multiple solutions. Fairly easy to save everyone even though you're allowed to lose up to 2.

Bad: In my solution at least, you can avoid pretty much most of the map and simply build to get over the steel wall which separates the entrance from the balloon, float down the other side, and make a splatform for the others. There's more than enough builders to do both. As a result, I have absolutely no idea as to what the intended route could be. However, given that it's an X-of-everything level, most of the time such levels are open-ended anyway. So, it seems that allowing this bad shortcut was intentional on the makers' part. Along with this, quite easy for its position this very late into the game.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

LemSteven

11-10: Lemming be thy name...
Lemmings: 60 (2 entrances)
Save: 51
Release Rate: 30/99
Time: 5:00
Skills: 2 climbers, 2 floaters, 9 bombers, 6 blockers, 1 builder, 2 miners

Good: The level looks daunting at first, with several obstacles to traverse and a limited skill supply.  It appears that blockers and/or bombers will be needed in several places, requiring careful management of the ten worker lemmings.

Bad: Once you realize that you only need to save one of the ten worker lemmings, the solution becomes almost trivial.  You can send two athletes to do all of the work without worrying about creating a suitable route for the others.

kaywhyn

11-11: 'Tanks' a Lot

Lemmings: 76

Save: 76

Time: 4 minutes

Release Rate: Water lemming hatch - 99, Lone regular lemming hatch - 50

Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 0 blockers, 5 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger

Good: Nice puzzle involving the lone regular lemming who needs to push the lever to create an elevator/lift for the water lemmings who are stuck at the bottom of a very deep tank so they can reach the balloon once the tank fills up with water

Bad: Unlike "The High Dive," where in some copies the game will crash, this is the other problematic level where players will likely encounter the extremely annoying bug of there being a 50:50 chance of some water lemmings splatting and the rest surviving in the unpatched version. It can even happen in the patched up version of the level, although in my LP sometimes one went splat while the others survived. I think it most likely will trigger off if you fast forward while the water lemmings are still coming out of the entrance, but I'm not certain. It might even be as a result of patching up the game so that "The High Dive" loads correctly where the critical height of there being a 50:50 chance of splatting/not splatting gets changed too, but again not certain here.

Also, both levels are not that hard
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

#80
ah someone finally revived it. :)

11-12 Two Laps Finale

50 Lemmings, save all
6:15

1 floater, bomber and blocker. 13 builders, 1 miner


Good:
After a string of backroutes and way too easy levels finally, a decent challenge. The layout is very sparse and intimidating. Lots of large gaps to cover and deadly falls. With a few teleporters, retractable walls and the balloon way up high, it's really not at all clear which way to go. Also one of the few levels in the game to require you to free a blocker with skills.

Bad:
Very builder heavy. I get the feeling there are far more routes than the creators intended. Teleporter directions can get annoying in this level, much like Walk the plank or join the crew. Pressing the switch is not necessary.
Freeing the blocker with a miner or a staircase (the intended route?) is much harder than it needs to be. Of course you can just bomb glitch them free. Oddly precise (but not tight I don't think) time limit.

---

about "Goonies":
Part of me actually wonders if they forgot this game wraps around horizontally...
Or if perhaps; the people designing this level (and others) were designing before they even planned the game to wrap horizontally... [this is actually a very real possibility, as I probably mentioned before in this thread; this game went through development hell]
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

Regarding Two Laps Finale, I'm still not sure what the intended solution to that level is.  When I first solved the level, I built a splatform for the crowd, entered the teleporter, and built directly to the exit from the right side, avoiding the switch so that the retractable wall stays closed and turns the crowd to the left.  That seems like a backroute, since the little arrow at the top of the level suggests you should approach the exit from the left side, but all of my attempts to find a solution that actually uses the whole level end up running out of builders.



11-13: The Diving Board
Lemmings: 100 (50 regular lemmings and 50 water lemmings)
Save: 98
Release Rate: 99 (regular lemmings), 40 (water lemmings)
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 4 builders, 1 basher

Good: The level lives up to its name, since the water lemmings have to drop off a long wooden plank into a water tank.  You can't let the regular lemmings just walk to the exit, since one of them has to build up to the switch to fill the water tank.  The level also makes good use of the cylindrical level format; both the water lemmings and the "hero" regular lemming end up making one complete revolution around the level.

Bad: It's way too easy for its position in the game.  It's also annoying that you have to block right next to a retractable wall, which ends up being closed later on.  That defeats the purpose of having the retractable wall there in the first place.

mobius

#82
12-1 Green with Envy

15 Lemmings save all (5 lemmings of each: normal, water and acid, in separate hatches)
10:00


50 of each skill

Good: despite the enormous skillset this level still poses a decent and fun/unique challenge. While most levels the challenge is where/how to use the skills, this level the challenge lies totally in mapping out a path and how to divide out the three different types of lemmings. I think the essentially infinite skillset works well here, allowing a lot of leeway in the solution without spoiling anything. It's one of my favorites.

Bad: The only downside I can think of is the backroute; a glitch around the timed door directly under the starting area allows everyone to pass through it. Thankfully this isn't something I found when I played it myself.

-The only level I'm aware of with a different teleporter system. Most of the game teleporters are connected in pairs. A-B, C-D etc. Where as in this level there are... 4(?) total, someone correct me if I'm wrong, and 3 all connect to the one by the balloon. [re-entering the balloon teleporter takes you to one of the others, I forget which) this might be a tad confusing for a new player but given the layout of the level it's pretty easy to reason this before hand.

-random note: the massive skillset means this is a good level to test the game out, it's one I used frequently when exploring the many glitches in the game. :D
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

Nice job gentlemen, we're now on the final column of levels! :thumbsup: 13 levels to go.

12-2: Anger. Love. Hate

Lemmings: 50

Save: 40

Time: 5 minutes

Release Rate: 30

Skills: 20 climbers, 20 floaters, 20 bombers, 20 builders

Good: Nice puzzle with the main challenge figuring out how to get to the lever at the bottom on the other side of the steel wall

Bad: Why the heck are you allowed up to 10 losses here? Other than the most difficult part of the level being to get a lemming to push the lever, it's still easy for this very late in the game despite only 4 skill types available.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

#84
12-3 All in
51 lemmings save all
5:00

1 climber, 1 floater 5 bashers, 5 builders, 1 miner and 1 digger

Good: Another interesting challenge of having one lemming separated from the rest of the crowd and setting up a safe path.

Bad: While this level isn't bad imo it's kind of meh, not super interesting with much unique going on. Also too easy for at the end of the game. It's a little bit obvious exactly what you need to do. Another teleporter that's kind of useless. [could've just put the balloon down there...]
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

12-4: LEMTRIS

Lemmings: 50

Save: 50

Time: 3 minutes

Release Rate: From left to right, 1, 39, 18, 5 (none can be changed)

Skills: 50 floaters

Good: The game takes an interesting twist with this level by featuring a unique gimmick in that you cannot pause on this level. If you attempt to do so, you will hear a creepy laugh, though honestly I could had sworn the laugh was much scarier sounding than this. At least, when I first reached this level years ago, I was taken by surprise not only by not being able to pause but by the laugh. It's said to be the laugh of a weasel. Essentially, this level is the equivalent of "Floater Frenzy" that you can find in early versions of namida's Lemmings Plus 2 pack when the frenzy gimmick used to exist in NL, except in his pack you are allowed many losses as I think it would had been way too frustrating otherwise to try and save everyone or as much as you can with quick reflexes.

Bad: Even without the ability to pause, this is still quite an easy level for this late in the game, helped by the fact that the RR of each entrance is different, the highest being 39. However, why those particular RR's? Seems very arbitrary values. If anything, the developers should had made each one with 99RR and adjust the save requirement accordingly, like maybe saving a maximum of half of the 50 with 25? Like make it more challenging in some way. Though keep in mind that unlike NL, in Lemmings Revolution the RR system is different, where each entrance acts independently of one another in relation to the RR's. If there are multiple entrances with each 99RR, then there won't be any spacing in the release of the lemmings from any entrance and all lemmings from each entrance will be released at the exact same time.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

LemSteven

12-5: No clues ... hee hee hee hee!
Lemmings: 50
Save: 40
Release Rate: 30
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 10 bombers, 10 blockers, 20 builders, 2 bashers, 10 miners, 10 diggers

Good: I love the trick to this level.  It seems impossible at first glance, as there is no way (without glitches) to get a lemming safely down to the laser gate that opens the path to the exit.  It turns out that those pesky weasels guarding the area before the exit are the key to completing the level.  Once you figure that out, creating a safe path for the weasels is far from trivial, especially if you're trying for 100%.

Bad: Creating the path for the weasels can easily become a builder-fest, reminiscent of some of the builder-heavy levels in the original Lemmings.  Also, it's possible to get a lemming down the laser gate by making a lemming a bomber so that he Oh-no's right before he splats, and then making him build before he explodes.  That defeats the concept of using the weasels, but one can argue that it's a flaw in the game mechanics rather than the level itself.

mobius

^^Interesting! I had always thought the "clever" solution was to
Spoiler
just sacrifice a lemming (took me a while to figure out he dies but still trips the gate).



12-6 Last One to the Top.....

30 Lemmings Save 29
5:00

10 of each skill


Good: Similar to Green With Envy you get a arbitrary skillset (though much reduced) and the puzzle relies instead on navigating the complex level, and some timing. There are weasels continually closing and opening the doors to the exit area and there's a shredder below to avoid. There's essentially two separate laser gates to get to. I like how the level looks and feels very intimidating at first. Lots of craziness going on.

Bad:
Or you can backroute it by just building over the doors. [though this can be more difficult and finnicky than it appears] There's also a weird staircase near the bottom from the balloon area that is deceiving, lemmings can walk down it but not up; making the large retractable wall down there also deceiving, at least to what its supposed to do.

I've never had a weasel be set free and not die from the shredders but that seems like a remote possibility.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

#88
@Lemsteven Aww, I wanted to review 12-5, but well, that's my fault for being too slow, as well as not speaking up about that. There is something I wanted to add, and that is IMO I probably consider it the best level in the entire game, especially as it uses something very unique, where the enemy that is usually very well-known for killing the Lemmings can actually be super helpful. Other than that, I agree with every point you brought up in your review of the level.

@mobius Not sure what you mean in the spoiler, as the fall apparently is not survivable even though it looks like it's kind of borderline of survival and splatting. Unless you mean the glitch of saving a bomber?

Quote from: mobius on December 05, 2022, 12:39:42 AM
I've never had a weasel be set free and not die from the shredders but that seems like a remote possibility.

It simply kills the weasel (see my LP). Essentially, think of them as the equivalent of zombies in NL, where they're moving traps and subject to the same dying to traps like Lemmings, although I guess technically they're more like classic zombies than non-classic, since they can interact with objects (laser gates, levers, etc), while the latter cannot. In addition, another difference is that weasels are always permanent floaters.



Also meant to review this level yesterday and hence make it three levels in a row reviewed, but that went over my head :XD:

12-7: The Long and Winding Road

Lemmings: 20

Save: 5

Time: 5 minutes

Release Rate: 10

Skills: 10 of everything

Good: Looks long and difficult for a level where you're free to solve it any way you like due to being an X-of-everything. However,

Bad: Assuming that you're supposed to take a long way, you actually don't need to, as it's possible to shortcut and brute force your way into the exit area just by going a little bit to the right of the starting platform before building to the left and hacking your way into the wall to get to the balloon. Even if the solution in my LP didn't work, you could always float a worker down and simply build your way up so that you're lower and don't have to worry about bashing/mining into steel when destroying the wall before the exit. So much for the "long and winding road" indeed :evil:

As such, I have no idea what the intended solution is supposed to be, but from the looks of the level, it likely involves the gravity pads. Also supposedly the intended way is going to be much harder to pull off, although you have 10 of every skill, so probably not.



Halfway through the 12th and final column of levels now! ;)     
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

It's perfectly fine with me if you want to add more comments to any level; I've been doing that after all :thumbsup:

Quote from: kaywhyn on December 05, 2022, 11:55:11 PM
@Lemsteven Aww, I wanted to review 12-5, but well, that's my fault for being too slow, as well as not speaking up about that. There is something I wanted to add, and that is IMO I probably consider it the best level in the entire game, especially as it uses something very unique, where the enemy that is usually very well-known for killing the Lemmings can actually be super helpful. Other than that, I agree with every point you brought up in your review of the level.

@mobius Not sure what you mean in the spoiler, as the fall apparently is not survivable even though it looks like it's kind of borderline of survival and splatting. Unless you mean the glitch of saving a bomber?

Agreed; this is also one of my favorites.

no I was able to solve the level before even knowing about the glitch or LemSteven's solution
Spoiler
Just build up to a spot directly but high above the laser gate then let the builder fall and die. He splats but his dying body still trips the gate and opens the door to the exit. You still have to deal with the weasels but I usually lead them to the water. 
:D
And correct the fall from the tall block, I'm pretty sure, is not 50-50 splat-live. its 100% splat.

Quote
Quote from: mobius on December 05, 2022, 12:39:42 AM
I've never had a weasel be set free and not die from the shredders but that seems like a remote possibility.

It simply kills the weasel (see my LP). Essentially, think of them as the equivalent of zombies in NL, where they're moving traps and subject to the same dying to traps like Lemmings, although I guess technically they're more like classic zombies than non-classic, since they can interact with objects (laser gates, levers, etc), while the latter cannot. In addition, another difference is that weasels are always permanent floaters.



Oh yeah I understand. No I meant how the "device" intended to kill the weasels is this whacky super fast shredders. Occasionally I've seen a weasel gets very near the ground before getting deaded. I just wonder if the timing could ever be just so to actually let one escape. :D

Quote
12-7: The Long and Winding Road


Oh interesting, maybe I don't remember but I hadn't thought of this level as being backrouted; and maybe there is actually a hard/long roundabout solution. I thought it was just *super* misplaced. I want to boot up the game now and take a look at this level... but I don't feel like playing through the whole damn game just to do that :XD:

I'll wait just a bit before reviewing again to give someone else a chance. [I already have reviews of the rest of the game pre-written up.... because I use my time wisely. :D
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

Quote from: mobius on December 06, 2022, 12:33:50 AM
It's perfectly fine with me if you want to add more comments to any level; I've been doing that after all :thumbsup:

Yes, I know, you said that already here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1511.msg83909#msg83909 :P However, I like the comments from others on levels who didn't review them as well ;)

Quote
no I was able to solve the level before even knowing about the glitch or LemSteven's solution
Spoiler
Just build up to a spot directly but high above the laser gate then let the builder fall and die. He splats but his dying body still trips the gate and opens the door to the exit. You still have to deal with the weasels but I usually lead them to the water. 
:D

Ah, I totally didn't think about doing that at all. Before that, I was very confused how else you could get to the laser gate. I do like the concept of letting the enemy do the task instead though ;)

Quote
Quote
I've never had a weasel be set free and not die from the shredders but that seems like a remote possibility.

Oh yeah I understand. No I meant how the "device" intended to kill the weasels is this whacky super fast shredders. Occasionally I've seen a weasel gets very near the ground before getting deaded. I just wonder if the timing could ever be just so to actually let one escape. :D

Ah, my mistake. I completely misread that.

Quote
Oh interesting, maybe I don't remember but I hadn't thought of this level as being backrouted; and maybe there is actually a hard/long roundabout solution. I thought it was just *super* misplaced. I want to boot up the game now and take a look at this level... but I don't feel like playing through the whole damn game just to do that :XD:

Let me know if you want me to send you my save file for the game so that you don't have to go through the whole thing again ;)

Quote
I'll wait just a bit before reviewing again to give someone else a chance. [I already have reviews of the rest of the game pre-written up.... because I use my time wisely. :D

Lol, nice
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

Just You Wait
100 Lemmings save 98
4:10


2 of each climber, floater bomber and blocker, 5 builders and 1 each of basher miner and digger.

Good: The first in group of my personal favorite levels of the game, along with Waste Not Want not, as one of the more challenging and complex (and non backroute plagued) levels and also satisfying to solve.
There seem to be a ton of possibilities on what to do at the start; how/where to contain the crowd, which path to take, where to send the worker(s), how many you need, and a very limited skillset. My solution wasn't super fiddly either, that I remember, but challenging to work out.


Bad:
Time limit is unnecessarily short. There's a 50-50 fall from the left of the entrance, but I think this one was supposed to be deadly. I can't remember if this lets you do anything weird or actually use that as a viable part of the solution. I think how I solved the level the first time I didn't go that way. The usual teleporter shenanigans.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


kaywhyn

^ I don't know how you solved the level, but here I was able to solve it

Spoiler

without activating the retractable floor beneath the teleporter leading to the exit.

You also forgot the level number :P



12-9: Turn on! Tune in! Switch on!

Number of Lemmings: 100

Save: 94

Time: 3 minutes 45 seconds

Release Rate: Two entrances both with a RR of 50. Left entrance has lemmings go out to the right, while the right entrance lemmings go out to the left.

Skills: 3 climbers, 1 floater, 6 bombers, 5 blockers, 4 builders, and 2 each of bashers, miners, and diggers.

Good: Nice challenging level and puzzle whose solution is not easy to figure out at all. I really like how you have to get around the problem of the splat heights without the use of the floater, as it doesn't really help much in getting the others down safely. Requires multiple workers, some upside down, and at least one to be upside up to prepare the route ahead. Makes very good use of the anti-gravity pads in what I think is the intended solution to get make a splatform for an upside-up lemming to go to the left past a retractable door to activate a series of levers to open up the way to the exit later on. It's definitely up there with one of my favorite puzzles, except

Bad: Unless I severely overcomplicated the solution and easier solutions exist, there is the extremely annoying timing element where you have to release the crowd at the right time with where the upside down scout is who activates a series of levers. Not so early that the first retractable floor doesn't activate to catch the crowd on time before they arrive, but not so late that the scout activates the next retractable floor while deactivating the current one the crowd walks on that they haven't had the chance to be over the next one. I often had the timing too late or too early and not just right.   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

LemSteven

#93
I am not aware of any way around the timing element on Turn on! Tune in! Switch on!  The key is to compress the crowd as much as possible behind a blocker.  Even then, the timing is annoyingly precise.  Fortunately, there is a good indicator of when to bomb the blocker holding the crowd: It's almost at the exact same moment that the scout hits the ceiling after getting flipped upside down by the anti-gravity pad.

Outside of that timing annoyance, I agree that it is one of the best puzzles in the game, which uses the anti-gravity pads to their full potential.



12-10: My friend the end.
Lemmings: 50
Save: 49
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3:30
Skills: 3 climbers, 10 floaters, 3 bombers, 2 blockers, 10 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner, 2 diggers

Good: The first time I played through the game, this was the first level in the final column that I encountered, and it did not disappoint!  Right off the bat, the crowd starts in a perilous situation, with a splat fall from the entrance into a empty water tank that will be soon be filled by the singleton lemming.  It was a very intimidating introduction to the final column for me, and it requires quick action right at the beginning to get everyone to safety.

Bad: Once you've got the crowd safely in the holding area, the rest of the level becomes a simple trailblazer exercise.  The singleton lemming essentially has no purpose other than hitting switches.

kaywhyn

Quote from: LemSteven on December 13, 2022, 05:59:50 AM
I am not aware of any way around the timing element on Turn on! Tune in! Switch on!  The key is to compress the crowd as much as possible behind a blocker.  Even then, the timing is annoyingly precise.  Fortunately, there is a good indicator of when to bomb the blocker holding the crowd: It's almost at the exact same moment that the scout hits the ceiling after getting flipped upside down by the anti-gravity pad.

I think you're right. I kept thinking that it is possible, by sending the crowd into the narrow corridor to the left so that they all use the gravity pad, but ultimately what makes any other route impossible besides the one with very precise timing is due to how there are vertical walls which they cannot get past without either becoming climbers themselves (you only have 3) or you build them out, but you only have 4, two of which are to make a splatform while upside down and another to avoid the gravity pad inside the first small water tank. In addition, the level title wouldn't even fit if any other route was possible, similar to how it's already a downer with "The Long and Winding Road," for which you can severely shortcut the level and easily avoid any losses.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

mobius

#95
Quote from: kaywhyn on December 12, 2022, 09:09:06 PM
^ I don't know how you solved the level, but here I was able to solve it

Spoiler

without activating the retractable floor beneath the teleporter leading to the exit.
I think I initially solved it with without knowing you could do that, so I found whatever switch pulls out that floor. I know there is a solution which feels more intended but runs much closer to the time limit. And one which avoids more parts of the level and is quicker. I can't remember the details though.

Quote from: LemSteven on December 13, 2022, 05:59:50 AM
I am not aware of any way around the timing element on Turn on! Tune in! Switch on!  The key is to compress the crowd as much as possible behind a blocker.  Even then, the timing is annoyingly precise.  Fortunately, there is a good indicator of when to bomb the blocker holding the crowd: It's almost at the exact same moment that the scout hits the ceiling after getting flipped upside down by the anti-gravity pad.

Outside of that timing annoyance, I agree that it is one of the best puzzles in the game, which uses the anti-gravity pads to their full potential.



12-10: My friend the end.


Agree; the hardest part of that level [my friend the end] is in the opening area, and secondary area directly to the east of that with the switch beneath the door which is not trivial to navigate either. The other part of the level is a switch guessing game, with an out of reach switch that only hinders you... And one switch that doesn't work; it doesn't even animate for some reason.

also love the overall appearance of these 3 or 4 levels on the last row; esp. Turn on, tune in switch on... there's a gazillion switches, some are upside down, doors everywhere, looks very daunting at first. :D
Another bad point about that level: with a large group of lemmings clumping it's easier for this level to crash the game.

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12-11 My Finest Moment

50 Lems save 49

3:00

3 climbers
10 bombers
2 builders
2 bashers
3 miners
2 diggers


Good: Another very daunting level at first glance with so much empty space and deadly fall heights. It isn't obvious or easy to figure out what the best route is or where to contain the crowd. This is one of the few levels in the game which has switches labeled with colored lights to tell you what they operate.

Bad: Aaaand where back into bizzaro world and backroute country. Like many other levels mentioned up to this point there's a lot of things that don't make sense here to me, like the timed door which you can easily dig/mine under.  Honestly this level feels kind of slapped together imo or like they were experimenting with stuff then decided to just call this a level.
There's a simple backroute of bomb glitching to the ground near the balloon then building up from there. The switches are essentially both useless (unless I'm remembering incorrectly) I don't think you need to pull out the retractable wall. In fact; there is yet another 50-50 fall glitch in this level, two or several actually; one not featured in pirohiko's video if memory serves is falling onto that retractable wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IaViCl31vs&list=PL0750E99D04921FDE&index=96
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


LemSteven

Quote from: mobius on December 14, 2022, 01:46:53 AM
Agree; the hardest part of that level [my friend the end] is in the opening area, and secondary area directly to the east of that with the switch beneath the door which is not trivial to navigate either. The other part of the level is a switch guessing game, with an out of reach switch that only hinders you... And one switch that doesn't work; it doesn't even animate for some reason.

Wow, I completely forgot about the out of reach switch when I reviewed that level.  Since the solution doesn't use it and it's out of the way, I've always treated it as if it wasn't there.

I'm wondering if the designers meant to have that switch facing the other direction.  As an experiment, I had the trailblazer build up there and walk the length of the corridor back and forth, hitting the switch twice.  After doing that, there was just enough time left to complete the level normally.  It would certainly make the level a lot more challenging if the switch started out reversed, such that by walking back and forth in that corridor you would only hit the switch once, opening the path to the teleporter.