Author Topic: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge  (Read 22289 times)

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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2009, 12:56:43 pm »
Here's Tricky 22 100% at 11 skills.

...and here's Tricky 5 100% at 8 skills.  (If you've seen Fun 21, this should look very familar.)

[edit 11/30/2019: re-attached missing replay caused by forum migration side effects]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:26:11 pm by ccexplore »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2009, 01:38:58 pm »
Fun 28 100% can be done in 10 skills.  I really don't think you need the replay for this one (but it's attached anyway).

[edit 11/30/2019: re-attached missing replay caused by forum migration side effects]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:26:55 pm by ccexplore »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2009, 09:41:17 pm »
Fun 29 100% at 13 skills, and Mayhem 9 (the repeat) 100% at 14 skills.  They are basically the same solution, just that for Mayhem 9, the lack of miners necessitates an extra builder (more precisely, just a single build brick) to allow the blocker be freed using a basher instead.

Offline Clam

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2009, 12:38:17 am »
Tricky 12 can be done with 10:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tricky 14 can be improved to 12 with a bit of release rate meddling and a bit of luck (although given the sheer number of possibilities, it was bound to work out somehow). Replay attached.
Tricky 25 takes 13 skills by the ceiling route which I introduced on the old forums. I don't remember if I ever uploaded my replay for this, or if anyone ever figured it out...


Quote from: table
Tricky 24: 6
This is the score for Taxing 24 (as mentioned by Pooty), not Tricky. Could you fix this please? Also, the same may apply to level 27 as well, though I'm not sure.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2009, 12:58:25 am »
Tricky 12 can be done with 10: Direct drop onto the exit.

I regret to inform you that this is neither necessary nor the most efficient (well okay, unless if there's something clever in your solution that could improve mine, or vice versa).  Here's 9 skills.

Also, there's a typo in your post when you said Tricky 14 can be improved to 14, when you mean 12.

Good job on Tricky 25 though, I haven't tried that yet.

[edit: re-attached missing replay caused by forum migration side effects]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:30:18 pm by ccexplore »

Offline Clam

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2009, 01:23:38 am »
Oops, I'll fix that (Tricky 14).

I regret to inform you that this is neither necessary nor the most efficient (well okay, unless if there's something clever in your solution that could improve mine, or vice versa).  Here's 9 skills.

I'm feeling too lazy right now to optimise. I thought one skill off was a worthwhile contribution. :)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2009, 01:43:59 am »
I'm feeling too lazy right now to optimise. I thought one skill off was a worthwhile contribution. :)

I'm just curious whether your solution was just mine but a little off, or instead a totally different approach that couldn't be made to do better than 10.  (As you can tell, I assumed the latter and was offering my sympathies on any time wasted on your part, so to speak. ;))  It's always a risk with this sort of challenge, where there are sometimes multiple approaches that aren't obviously better or worse on the outset, and sometimes one picks the "wrong" one to optimize on and forgets to re-check the alternative approaches.

Offline Clam

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2009, 02:12:20 am »
No, mine was completely different. What I did was make a lemming climb out, dig at the edge and build twice to set up a direct drop, and then mine down. After using 3 floaters and 2 builders at the start (no one seems to have found a better way to do this), it's unlikely this solution will work with less than 10 skills.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2009, 02:32:45 am »
Quote from: table
Tricky 24: 6
This is the score for Taxing 24 (as mentioned by Pooty), not Tricky. Could you fix this please? Also, the same may apply to level 27 as well, though I'm not sure.

Ah.  So here's the real Tricky 24 result:  7 skills.  [Note: you need to place the blockers (particular the left one) with care to ensure their field alignments are favorable.]

[edit: on second thought, you don't need the left blocker, its function can be replaced by another set of 3 skills that does not have alignment requirements and no need for removal actions.]

[edit 11/30/2019: re-attached missing replay caused by forum migration side effects]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:35:19 pm by ccexplore »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2009, 11:14:45 am »
Tricky 28 100% can be done with 4 skills.  Hint:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Taxing 29 (and therefore also Tricky 3) 100% can be done with 8 skills.  It is basically just a straightforward optimization of the standard solution.  Some hints:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[edit 11/30/2019: re-attached missing replays caused by forum migration side effects]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:37:47 pm by ccexplore »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2009, 04:28:43 am »
Since no one else is likely to try it, I'm going to get Hail 6 out of the way now.  Here's a solution for Hail 6 saving the maximum possible (57%, or 46 saved) without using the blocker (ie. 0 skills).

(For explanation of why 57% is the maximum possible, see this post.)

As before, I used purely the relationship between RR and lemming spacing to work out the solution, no computer simulations (even the kind where you make use of the Lemmix text replays) needed.  The original blocker solution conceptually divides the savable lemmings into 3 single-position groups, and try to compress them all neatly into one of the 3 groups.  The blockerless solution here instead recognizes that the later the lemming comes out, the less precise you need to compress it to an "optimal" position, because of the increasing extra time they have to walk to the exit.

The zip file contains (in addition to the Lemmix replay) a text file explaining the basic strategy noted above, as well as an explicit "English" solution telling you when exactly to change the RR to what.

[edit 11/30/2019: re-attached missing zip file caused by forum migration side effects]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:40:05 pm by ccexplore »

Offline Clam

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2009, 10:55:12 pm »
Crazy 1: 5 (tried very hard to do it with 4 but I don't think it works)

Is this for 98% or 100%? I'm not sure if you're aware, but 100% is possible on this level.

@namida: Could you please add the maximum % records to the first post? Also it might be a good idea to add a * to the score for any level where 100% can't be saved.

I'll see if I can find these records and post them here to make it easier, hang on a second...
Okay, here they are, as far as I know.

[EDIT: these have been moved to the first post.]

Offline Pooty

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2009, 08:30:59 pm »
I've improved Tricky 11 to 10 skills using a slightly different approach.
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2011, 07:30:00 pm »
Thats pretty much same topic i create a today. But i can see points on SNES only. I see there is tons version difference between versions.

Mayhem 21 is possible with few items used on genesis versions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCO3YjIAmmM

But yeah this doesn´t work on SNES.  Did you used PC versions?
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmix custom levels
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

Offline Clam

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2011, 09:01:44 am »
As I just posted here, Taxing 1 takes 9 skills for 100%.

Taxing 7 takes 8 skills, same as for the regular least-skills thread (the max-% record for this one is 98%)