I've done most of Fun to start it off. There's a few more which should be possible but I couldn't be bothered trying - namely Fun 14, 15, 16, 19 and 28.

The lack of destructive skills is the biggest handicap. Builders are also a bit of a loss, though you can somewhat simulate them by using Stacker > Walker > repeat (sometimes with a Platformer before the next Stacker).

The result for Fun 30 was a pretty cool one.

As I'm sure most of you know, the V1.15n update of NeoLemmix added a few new skill types. As of V1.15n-B, you can also force a level to use a specific skillset. So, here's the challenge for each level:

1) Can the level be beaten with only the new skills? (the code to enter on ForceSkillset option is AD51 (V1.17n or newer) or AD50 (V1.16n-B or earlier))
2) If so, assuming an X-of-everything skillset, what is the lowest X the level can be beaten with?
3) Finally, under such conditions, what is the highest % that can be saved?

Just to be clear - that's the order of priority. Highest priority is just beating the level full stop. If that's doable, next priority is to find the smallest X for which it's doable with an X-of-each-new-skill skillset. Once that's been found, the highest % obtainable with said X-of-each skillset is the last task.


<em>Just for reference, on how to set this up:

1) Download <a href="index4265.html?topic=911.0" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">NeoLemmix</a>. Use the latest version if possible; at any rate you definitely need at least V1.15n-B or higher for this topic; but V1.17n+ is recommended due to an additional skill being added in V1.17n.
2) Run the player in question at least once.
3) In the INI file, set ChallengeMode to 1 and ForceSkillset to AD51 (or AD50 if you're using a version older than V1.17n)

You'll notice you start the level with 0 of each skill. This is normal; that's how Challenge Mode works - instead of your skills being limited, you have unlimited skills and it counts how many you use. The reason you need to use Challenge Mode is because obviously, the already-existing levels have 0 of each of the new skills.</em>

<em>Note: Do not use V1.15n-B for the packs where the levels were not yet properly NeoLemmix-converted in that version. In other words, you must use V1.16n or higher for Oh No! More Lemmings!, Holiday Lemmings 94, the Extra Levels, and Lemmings Plus II.</em>

<strong>Keep in mind that these skills are still very new, and as such, may have glitches. Cloner and Glider especially may be vunerable to glitches.</strong>

<span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="bbc_size"><strong>Original Lemmings</strong></span>
<strong>Fun</strong>
Fun 2 - 90% with 1 of everything
Fun 3 - 98% with 1 of everything
Fun 7 - 100% with 1 of everything
Fun 8 - 99% with 1 of everything
Fun 10 - 100% with 1 of everything
Fun 11 - 98% with 11 of everything
Fun 13 - 100% with 1 of everything
Fun 14 - 12 of everything (no % recorded)
Fun 15 - 97% with 12 of everything
Fun 16 - 11 of everything (no % recorded)
Fun 18 - 98% with 1 of everything
Fun 19 - 5 of everything (no % recorded)
Fun 20 - 96% with 8 of everything
Fun 24 - 96% with 2 of everything
Fun 26 - 100% with 4 of everything
Fun 27 - 98% with 1 of everything
Fun 28 - 97% with 11 of everything
Fun 30 - 96% with 2 of everything

<strong>Tricky</strong>
Tricky 1 - 4 of everything (no % recorded)
Tricky 2 - 100% with 1 of everything
Tricky 3 - 100% with 5 of everything
Tricky 4 - 100% with 8 of everything
Tricky 6 - 80% with 4 of everything
Tricky 7 - 96% with 7 of everything
Tricky 9 - 97% with 3 of everything
Tricky 12 - 96% with 2 of everything
Tricky 13 - 94% with 3 of everything
Tricky 18 - 90% with 1 of everything
Tricky 19 - 100% with 1 of everything
Tricky 22 - 99% with 1 of everything
Tricky 29 - 99% with 1 of everything

<strong>Taxing</strong>
Taxing 2 - 97% with 5 of everything
Taxing 9 - 100% with 1 of everything
Taxing 10 - 100% with 5 of everything
Taxing 14 - 98% with 14 of everything
Taxing 15 - 98% with 10 of everything
Taxing 16 - 99% with 3 of everything
Taxing 19 - 98% with 1 of everything
Taxing 21 - 100% with 5 of everything
Taxing 22 - 100% with 3 of everything
Taxing 24 - 99% with 1 of everything
Taxing 27 - 78% with 5 of everything
Taxing 28 - 98% with 3 of everything
Taxing 30 - 100% with 1 of everything

<strong>Mayhem</strong>
Mayhem 1 - 96% with 17 of everything
Mayhem 6 - 100% with 6 of everything
Mayhem 8 - 91% with 12 of everything
Mayhem 10 - 98% with 7 of everything
Mayhem 11 - 100% with 1 of everything
Mayhem 13 - 100% with 4 of everything
Mayhem 14 - 97% with 10 of everything
Mayhem 15 - 96% with 11 of everything
Mayhem 16 - 100% with 6 of everything
Mayhem 17 - 100% with 6 of everything
Mayhem 18 - 95% with 10 of everything
Mayhem 21 - 100% with 9 of everything
Mayhem 27 - 100% with 6 of everything
Mayhem 29 - 100% with 5 of everything
Mayhem 30 - 96% with 25 of everything

<span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="bbc_size"><strong>Oh No! More Lemmings!</strong></span>
<strong>Tame</strong>
Tame 1 - 60% with 6 of each
Tame 2 - 100% with 2 of each
Tame 4 - 98% with 2 of each
Tame 7 - 94% with 9 of each
Tame 8 - 96% with 1 of each
Tame 9 - 100% with 2 of each
Tame 13 - 100% with 2 of each
Tame 14 - 100% with 4 of each
Tame 15 - 100% with 2 of each

<strong>Crazy</strong>
Crazy 2 - 100% with 6 of each
Crazy 3 - 96% with 2 of each
Crazy 4 - 100% with 4 of each
Crazy 5 - 100% with 4 of each
Crazy 6 - 100% with 14 of each
Crazy 7 - 100% with 26 of each
Crazy 10 - 98% with 16 of each
Crazy 11 - 50% with 1 of each
Crazy 13 - 70% with 2 of each
Crazy 14 - 92% with 3 of each
Crazy 15 - 98% with 1 of each

<strong>Wild</strong>
Wild 1: 96% with 5 of each
Wild 2: 97% with 13 of each
Wild 3: 96% with 6 of each
Wild 4: 100% with 7 of each
Wild 6: 100% with 4 of each
Wild 10: 95% with 6 of each
Wild 11: 98% with 5 of each
Wild 16: 100% with 11 of each
Wild 19: 96% with 12 of each
Wild 20: 96% with 1 of each

<strong>Wicked</strong>
Wicked 1: 96% with 2 of each
Wicked 3: 100% with 3 of each
Wicked 5: 100% with 1 of each
Wicked 8: 98% with 6 of each
Wicked 9: 96% with 7 of each
Wicked 10: 96% with 9 of each

Preliminary LPII conversion is now complete - still got to finish testing them though; only tested Nice so far. After that, next up is ONML, probably going to get H94 done before V1.16n is released too. Not sure about Extra, of course it'll be done eventually but whether it's done for V1.16n or not is another matter.

One new feature, that I discussed ages back but never implemented but have done so now (and will be in V1.16n); pre-placed lemmings can be pre-assigned certain skills. Specifically, the 5 permanent skills, as well as blocker. They can be assigned in any combination, except the impossible combo of Floater + Glider; if you try to assign both, it only gets Floater. The level does not need to actually have the skill in question as part of the skillset.


EDIT: Tested LPII up to the end of Cunning. The only levels that *needed* modifications were Cunning 5 and Cunning 6; though I'm also going to slightly increase the time limits on Sneaky 7, Sneaky 8 and Cunning 16, as well as some minor terrain changes on the last one.

EDIT: Tested all of LPII. Cunning 5, Cunning 6, Genius 8 and Genius 13 were the only level that needed modifications to actually be *possible* (after modifications to make stuff look neater, that is; they might've been possible as-is before that - well, the Cunning ones anyway; the Genius ones were both impossible under NeoLemmix mechanics). Cunning 16 also had some minor changes as the lack of steel glitches made it require an annoying degree of precision, and a few levels had an extra 30 seconds added to their time limits (off the top of my head, Sneaky 7, Sneaky 8 and Cunning 16). Cunning 9 needed some changes to keep the secret level accessible - since there was no way to make it impossible to get the whole crowd to the general area of it but still allow getting one or two lemmings, I had to do something slightly different for it. Under the new mechanics, Genius 4 was possible with one fewer builder than before, so the skillset has been adjusted accordingly. Cheeky 20, while not impossible under the new mechanics, became a LOT harder than before, so I made some very slight changes there too - you probably won't even notice the changes unless you're looking for them. That's just off the top of my head, I know there were a few more changes here and there. Surprisingly, Genius 19 needed no changes apart from one cosmetic change that doesn't impact the solution. Cheeky 8 is a lot harder than before now, but I'm not sure exactly what can be done to negate that without making it mostly just tedious (by sharply increasing the number of builders), except maybe swapping it and one of the other gimmick levels (maybe Cunning 19), but I don't really want to do that... I also have to say, Genius 3 gave me a bit of difficulty! Nothing NeoLemmix-specific, I just couldn't remember how to solve it. xD

OhNo and H94 are yet to be confirmed for sure, but LPII will definitely be fully NeoLemmix-adjusted for the next update, as the conversion is now complete. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Those two (especially H94) shouldn't be too much trouble anyway.

Two-way this time, between Timid 10 "What Does This Button Do?" and Timid 15 "Locked Out!".

My votes this round were Timid 12 "No Floaters, Guaranteed" and Timid 15 "Locked Out!".

New round is up.

Some interesting mechanics / notes on how they work with the new skills that may be of use to level designers. Some of these are shown in the tutorial levels, or in "Stone Hot Sacrifice":

Walkers
- You can assign a walker to any of the following: Walkers, Blockers, Platformers, Builders, Stackers, Bashers, Miners, Diggers.
- If you assign a walker to a lemming that is already walking, it turns around. (I believe this is the same as in Lix.)

Swimmers
- If a swimmer enters the water below the surface, it jumps up a few pixels instantly, then slowly floats towards the top.
- For the most part, a swimmer functions the same way as a walker, but on water instead of terrain. This includes that it will jump up a small ledge if it encounters one, and can transition to climbing if it encounters a taller wall.
- A swimmer can be assigned the Bomber or Stoner skills. Bomber does not do any destruction if used while swimming (intentional, not a glitch), but Stoner functions as normal.
- The Exhaustion gimmick does not have any impact on Swimmers.

Gliders
- Gliders will turn around and continue gliding if they hit a wall.
- Gliders that meet updraft objects (the Sky set has these) will move upwards instead of downwards, though at a slower rate.
- You can assign a glider to a lemming mid-fall, just like with floaters.
- A lemming cannot be both a Floater and a Glider. You can have both skills on the same level, but not on the same lemming.

Mechanic
- Mechanics take 43 frames to deactivate a trap.
- A mechanic can only deactivate a trap while the trap is idle (not currently killing a lemming).
- A trap deactivated by a mechanic is permanently deactivated; the effect is not temporary.
- Mechanic is a permanent skill just like Climbers, Swimmers, Floaters and Gliders - one mechanic can deactivate as many traps as he encounters.
- The Exhaustion gimmick does not have any impact on Mechanics.

Stoner
- Stoner functions more or less identically to bomber, except for creating terrain instead of destroying it.
- Even in a player that uses timed bombers, Stoners are still instant.
- As implied by the first point, you can use a Stoner in mid-air.
- If you use a Stoner on flat ground (and even in most cases on slopes), Climbers will not be able to climb over the resulting terrain.
- A lemming that dies by becoming a Stoner does indeed count as killed for the purpose of the Karoshi gimmick.

Platformer
- Platformer can only be assigned in locations where at least one pixel of their first step is not already solid terrain.
- A platformer will stop if, while moving horizontally, there is a solid pixel either one or two pixels above his platform.
- A platformer will also stop if an entire brick is placed where there is already solid terrain; but not if even just one pixel of it was previously empty space.
- Platformers *are* affected by the Lazy Lemmings gimmick.

Stacker
- A stacker cannot be assigned in a location where the pixel below the leftmost pixel of their first brick is not solid.
- The stacker shares the builder's animation, there is no dedicated graphic for it.
- Stackers place their steps much more rapidly than builders or platformers do.
- Stackers' steps are three pixels wide, and they place 8 steps.
- Stackers will stop if the leftmost pixel of a brick they place is already solid terrain; they do not care about the other two.
- Stackers *are* affected by the Lazy Lemmings gimmick, making it almost impossible to actually make use of them in such conditions.



Combinations of permanent skills (Climber, Swimmer, Floater, Glider, Mechanic)
- The name "Athlete" now applies to a lemming with any two permanent skills.
- A lemming with three permanent skills is called a "Triathlete".
- A lemming with four permanent skills is called an "X-Athlete". This was originally going to be "Superathlete", but it barely fit in the space and looked weird.
- Five permanent skills is not possible as Floater and Glider are mutually exclusive; but if it did happen, it would still just show as "X-Athlete".

Currently there's no way to tell exactly which skills an athlete / triathlete / X-athlete has, unless the skillset only allows for one possible combination that acheives the name in question (for example, if the level doesn't have Floaters or Mechanics, then a triathlete is obviously Climber + Swimmer + Glider). If anyone has any suggestions for how differentiating them should be implemented, let me know.

I was hoping for at least half the levels to be completely new, while the other half could possibly be re-used. Although, in the case of re-used levels, I'd encourage (though not require - there's nothing wrong with having a few levels sticking to the basics!) modifying them a bit to make use of NeoLemmix, even if it's just changing a couple of skills so they're pickup skills, or maybe replacing a builder with a platformer, etc.

I would rather avoid levels that have been in large packs that were originally made for Lemmix - so like, nothing from the Lemmings Plus series, cLemmings, GeoffLems, etc. But if they're from Lemmini-exclusive or even primarily-Lemmini packs, that should be alright.

As far as styles go, it'd probably be fine for all the styles except maybe the Sega one. (So the LPII / LPIII ones would be alright too.)

But also, the exact specifics of the pack is something that all contributors could discuss when the project actually starts. I'm not going to call the shots altogether for a community pack, except on that it'll be for NeoLemmix since that's the whole point of this one. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Also worth noting - we wouldn't be limited to using the Flexi player; I'd make a proper dedicated player for it like I did with LPIII. So this also means that (for example), assuming they're not too complicated, I could add in specific gimmicks that people want to use. Or other hardcoded stuff, though obviously this would need a *very* good reason and be only an occasional thing (like for example, the 66% required on Sega 3 from the Extra player, or the bait-and-switch on Timid 5 of LPIII).


By the way, I'd probably put Stone Hot Sacrifice forward as a level for possible inclusion. Maybe some of the tutorial levels too; some people have commented on a couple of them being a bit on the hard side (specifically, the ones for gliders, stoners and stackers) so possibly not all of them. If it doesn't get included, then I'll probably remake it in an LP style for "LPIII-2".

Here's a start on Dodgy 1. I still need to minimize builders - current best that I'm aware of is 6 but I haven't really tried yet, I can probably get it down further if I do. I myself haven't even acheived 6; I've only seen it in other people's solutions.

My intended solution replay can be easily modified to not use blockers, and already doesn't use floaters (although one of these replays doesn't use floaters either).
Attached are two replays. The first one doesn't use climbers or bombers. The second doesn't use bashers or diggers - the one miner it uses can very easily be substituted with a well-placed digger. If you can't get the placement for that right, you can still substitute it even more easily with a digger and a basher.

So all it comes down to for this level is how few builders it can be completed with.
EDIT: Got a 5-builder solution. I don't think any less than this is possible, partly due to the very steep save requirement on this level.


EDIT: Another one to add, found a basher-free solution to Dodgy 11. This leaves only four skills required for that one - the climber, one builder, the miner and the digger.

Yay for three-way ties. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> We sure seem to get a lot of those in these voteoffs.

In this case, it's between Timid 3 "Strike It Down!", Timid 4 "Roundabout Run" and Timid 8 "Scatterlem". The last one being the only one that I myself voted for. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> My other vote was for Timid 6 "The Rebound".

Next round is up!

Did I say V1.16n? I meant V1.15n-B. Not enough to warrant an entirely new version, but I think it's worth releasing as these are some features that might be found quite useful, or at least quite nice. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

NeoLemmix V1.15n-B
-----------------------
*  The Flexi player now supports the Xmas palette.
*  A single player can use styles with both normal and Xmas palettes without
   graphical glitches.
*  Gimmick forcing can now use custom combinations. This is done by entering
   an 8-digit value instead of a 4-digit one; NeoLemmix Editor will display
   the correct value for the currently-selected combination.
*  In players that support extra modes, it is now possible to override the
   skills with a custom selection. Like with custom gimmick combinations and
   gimmick forcing, NeoLemmix Editor will display the correct code to use.
   Note that any skill not usually present in the level will have a quantity
   of zero, so this should generally be used together with Challenge Mode.
*  Lemmings Plus III is now included in the NeoLemmix update stream. Note
   that the versions from such are not considered official LPIII releases;
   the Levels V3 / Player V1.15n release is the final official version.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z1h2vwtu90w8igs/AABBtcL2GcebwreclZsijmUKa/NeoLemmix/V1.15n" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z1h2vwtu90w8igs/AABBtcL2GcebwreclZsijmUKa/NeoLemmix/V1.15n

Please be aware: X9192 and H94 do not have proper graphics for the new skills; they do function fine but will be slightly strange graphically. Lemmings Plus III does have proper graphics for them though (LPIII-style skill panel buttons / empty slots, and variable colors on the glider just like it has on the floater). Likewise, the players that have differently-colored skillbars (Covox, Prima and Extra) have the new skill icons in their proper colors, not out-of-place-looking default colors.

Most likely, the big task for V1.16n will be finishing off some (if not all) of the remaining conversions - there's four games left to do; those being OhNo, H94, Extra and LPII.

EDIT: Just for fun, here's a few screenshots of new skills being used in the original game.
I had actually considered the idea of seeing how many different combinations of skills Mayhem 3 can be beaten with, still keeping the one-of-each... but even if you exclude Bombers and Stoners (since they kill the lemming, thus meaning you can't get 100%), that gives a total of 1287 possible combinations of 8 skills. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />
(If you were wondering, if you *include* those two skills, it becomes 6435 possible combinations! Yep, with just 15 skills, we probably have more possible combinations than will ever actually occur in levels - without taking into account that you don't *have* to have a full set of 8 skills! Now, if you do take into account skillsets of less than 8 skill types (going all the way down to no skills at all), there's 22,819 possible combinations! Of course, there are some cases where certian skills are useless - for example, there's no use for swimmers on graphic sets that don't have water, so there'd be no reason to have levels in the Xmas, Metal, Sky or Lab styles with swimmers.)

If you read left-to-right, top-to-bottom, they're in the order that they appear in-game. Like, for example, Walker always appears first on the list, Stoner will always appear after Bomber but before Blocker, etc.

If generally people would prefer the way you've suggested (old skills on the left, new on the right), then I can definitely make that change.


By the way - V1.16n update will include an option to force specific skillsets among the extra modes (just like it's had for a while with gimmicks), so you can try out new skills on existing levels. Additionally, it'll support custom gimmick combinations when using the Force Gimmick option, instead of limiting you to the combinations that have a dedicated code. Both features have already been coded.

Timid does have some pretty good challenge potential. I posted replays for these over on the Challenges board, but two I'd highly recommend - Timid 4 with only 2 climbers, and Timid 15 with only 2 builders. (In both cases, you can use as much as you like of the other skills, as long as you stay within the limit of the actual skillset.)


...I'm really just still amazed that no one's managed to beat Fierce 8 yet. xD To those who have attempted it - would you mind posting / sending replays of what you tried, even if it didn't work in the end? I'd be interested to see how people thought to approach this one. I did get one attempt replay back when it was released as part of a demo; the person who sent me it was actually on the right track but hadn't quite put together everything needed to beat the level.

I'd almost be tempted if to wonder if it's a "level 8 curse" (since the original Rough 8 (now placed at Fierce 6) also turned out to be very problematic, although it has been solved now), except for the fact that this level wasn't originally placed at Fierce 8.

Alright, V14 is here!

CustLemmix & Flexi Player
---------------
* Supports overriding the normal palette with the Xmas one on specific graphic sets. The included copy of the Xmas set has been set to use this override.

Flexi Player
---------------
* The "Use Xmas Palette" option now works. Note that this option does not get applied to graphic sets, as those can be set on an individual basis whether to use the Xmas palette or not. (The copy included with the Flexi Toolkit *is* set to use the Xmas palette.)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z1h2vwtu90w8igs/AACAack0n_Z7c1vv1X6Nr56Ba/Lemmix/CustLemmix" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">CustLemmix downloads
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z1h2vwtu90w8igs/AADom53ULNGOUXOi3c-ndRpda/Lemmix/FlexiLemmix" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Flexi Player downloads
Source code can be found https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z1h2vwtu90w8igs/AABWTJ4-wR_QIgmXGIWc5Plla/Lemmix/Source Code" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here

All these options will also be available in NeoLemmix (including NeoCustLemmix) in the next update.

New versions are up for LemSet (V7), LemMain(V6.1) and NeoLemmix Editor (V1.15n-B).

NeoLemmix Editor V1.15n-B
---------------------------------
> Index numbers of pieces no longer need to be all
  consecutive, they can now have gaps. (This can matter
  for objects in Traditional, and steel in NeoLemmix.)
> Can correctly display graphic sets that use the Xmas
  palette, as long as they are marked as such (same
  marking scheme as used in CustLemmix V14+ / NeoLemmix
  V1.16n+).
> Negative steel areas are now displayed in a different
  color from regular steel.
> Terrain pieces with No Overwrite enabled no longer have
  reduced priority when selecting.

Note: It's very possible this update may have caused issues with saving/loading Lemmini levels. If it has, let me know and I'll see what I can do about it. I don't have Lemmini set up, so I haven't tested this.



The update to LemSet is a very minor one, it just supports putting the Xmas Palette mark in styles. The update to LemMain is also related to the Xmas Palette; it adds an option of which palette to use, instead of only supporting the standard one.

Should also mention - the included copy of the Xmas style with the NeoLemmix editor (in both NeoCustLemmix and CustLemm styles) has been modified to mark it for the Xmas palette.


Also, to confirm what you're probably suspecting - yes, from V1.16n, the Flexi player option to use the Xmas palette will be working.

Got something long overdue for the next version... you can now specifically mark a style as using the Xmas palette, and therefore have it display in the correct colors even when other styles in the same game are non-Xmas. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

I'll also integrate this feature into CustLemmix, too (edit: done, and released, see the CustLemmix topic - and of course by extension, this is applied to traditional Flexi as well). And, of course, the editor. I guess I'll need to make a LemSet update to support it too, just in case anyone wants to use it in custom styles (not that there's been any other than my ones, yet). Although there isnt' much point to doing so, unless you're making them for non-customizable games; graphic set palettes feature the same colors either way, it's only the order of them that's different.

An interesting thing I just noticed - while both are FAR from obvious, the tutorial levels for Walkers and Platformers can both be beaten without actually using the new skill.