Which levels can be beaten without assigning multiple skills to one lemming?

Started by namida, August 09, 2009, 05:19:46 AM

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namida

Yeah, another idea I just got.
For this one, you may use as many skills as you want, BUT you may only use one skill on each lemming.

I've already done Fun, and all of them except 4 and 26 are possible.

*I have added any level which showed up in my previous topic as being possible with either Climbers, Floaters, Bombers or Blockers to this list, as well as any from the Minimum Skills that can be done with 0 or 1 skills, as these ones are obviously possible under this challenge*

Original (86 of 120 levels)
Fun: All except 4 and 26 (total: 28)
Tricky: All except 6, 12, 19, 23 and 25 (total: 25)
Taxing: 2, 4-6, 9, 15-25, 27, 30 (total: 18)
Mayhem: 2, 4-5, 7-9, 11-12, 15-19, 24-26 (total: 15)

Oh No
Tame: All
Crazy: 2-3, 5, 8-9, 11-15, 19
Wild: 1, 3-4, 7, 9-11, 15, 17-20
Wicked: 1, 4, 6-7, 13-14, 16, 18-19
Havoc: 6, 10, 16

Holiday
Frost: 1-5, 7-9, 11, 13-15
Hail: 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10
Flurry: All except 8
Blitz: 3, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16

Revolution
4-4
5-2, 5-3, 5-5
6-6, 6-7, 6-8
7-1, 7-4
8-7, 8-8, 8-9
9-6
11-5
12-7
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Minim

Not a bad idea, Namida. But it's a pretty hard challenge to keep up with!
Anyway I solved the first two tricky levels. I'll update some more later.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Minim

This is quite a boring job to do I'm afraid, http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> but let me tell you something. Remember your last topic was "How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?" well, the levels which can be solved using only climbers, floaters, bombers or blockers are known as possible levels, Do you see what I mean?
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Proxima

And another group you don't need to test: any level with a death fall at the start will be impossible.

How are we counting levels like Tricky 11? It's clearly possible in theory, since you can choose a different lemming to build each bridge, but in practice you can't keep track of all those individual lemmings and make sure it really is a different one each time.

ccexplore

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=131.msg2829#msg2829">Quote from: Proxima on 2009-08-09 05:08:48
How are we counting levels like Tricky 11? It's clearly possible in theory, since you can choose a different lemming to build each bridge, but in practice you can't keep track of all those individual lemmings and make sure it really is a different one each time.

Well, if Lemmix is used, the text version of saved replays indicate each lemming involved by number (numbering from 0, in order of when the lemming entered the level), thereby allowing you to actually verify whether you've truly used a different lemming each time or not.

ccexplore

I've been through Tricky 1-10 so far and have confirmed that only Tricky 6 ("Lemmingology") is impossible, obviously because you have only 5 lemmings and you can't solve the level with only 5 skills.

I've attached replays for Tricky 7, 9 and 10. 9 and 10 illustrates a general strategy that is useful for this challenge, providing you have enough spare skills.  The idea is to basically repeatedly hold the crowd, then release one or two lemmings from the crowd when you need them to continue the work normally carried on solely by the "hero lemming" (aka trailblazer), and quickly re-hold the crowd.  Repeat.

Proxima

I can add the next ten levels to the list.

I already said that 11 is obviously possible and 12 obviously impossible. I have solved 13; the save percentage is low enough that the normal solution, except not restraining the crowd and allowing a different lemming to do each skill, is good enough.

15, 16, 17, 18 are obviously possible. Unless I've missed something, 19 and 20 are impossible, since both require lemmings to climb and then take another skill.

Tricky 14 doesn't work on my computer, but to make up for that I'll add the Mac's Tricky 21, which is certainly impossible.

namida

I think that with very good use of skills, 20 may just be doable... 19 is definately impossible though.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Dullstar

How are you supposed to do this without lemmix?  After all, Lemmix doesn't work right in WINE.

ccexplore

I think it's acceptable for those not using Lemmix to not worry about truly picking a different lemming, as long as it's reasonable to assume that it can be done (eg. you're just picking a random lemming off from a crowd of continually incoming lemmings, and you're not constrained to pick one as soon as possible).  The game's mechanics actually favor you in this manner, since if everyone under the cursor are walkers, the game always select the one who came into the level the latest, making it more likely that you'll be selecting a different lemming from one you might've used previously.

How about this:  if you believe you have a solution that should work but you aren't certain because you can't use Lemmix, just mention that fact when you report the result, and I'll try to confirm it for you in Lemmix.

ccexplore

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=131.msg2838#msg2838">Quote from: Proxima on 2009-08-09 08:15:25
Unless I've missed something, 19 and 20 are impossible, since both require lemmings to climb and then take another skill.

20 is confirmed possible, because there's a way for you to go underneath the one way wall instead of over it.  I've attaced the Lemmix replay and will try to create some sort of video for it later.

19 however I agree is impossible, unless someone come up with a way to get up the first step without using climbers or the builder.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=131.msg2838#msg2838">Quote from: Proxima on 2009-08-09 08:15:25
Tricky 14 doesn't work on my computer, but to make up for that I'll add the Mac's Tricky 21, which is certainly impossible.

Ok.  But again, we need to keep separate lists for each version of Lemmings, and presumably we're doing DOS Lemmings/Lemmix at this point, so we'll need to do DOS's Tricky 21 ("All the 6's").  I haven't tried it but since it gives you 66 of everything and only requires 66%, I would guess it is possible.

Proxima

I wasn't thinking of maintaining separate lists for the different versions -- just writing that level off because I knew no-one else would look at it.

Dullstar

All of the "We all fall down" levels are possible.

Testing won't even be needed!

Dullstar

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=131.msg2855#msg2855">Quote from: ccexplore on 2009-08-09 18:40:56
How about this:  if you believe you have a solution that should work but you aren't certain because you can't use Lemmix, just mention that fact when you report the result, and I'll try to confirm it for you in Lemmix.

I can't use Lemmix Player (the editor half of the editor works though).  Now before Eric sees this comment, it's because Lemmix doesn't work on WINE!  So, if I submit the idea, Lemmix hasn't been used.  Although the one I just submitted doesn't require testing because of the solution involved.

namida

I can see no reason why 21 wouldn't be possible, and 22 certianly is. I don't think 23 can be done though.

EDIT: And as impossible as it may seem, I just managed 24.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)