So, it looks like the release of Lemmings Open Air (LOA) is finally just around the corner, after two years.
I have two further music-themed packs in development, both of which are intended to feature the final skills that get introduced (and I seriously hope it will be all four of them! )
Both of these packs (Lemmings: Hall of Fame (LHF) and Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll (LDR)) have strong tileset restrictions attached to them, though, because they're supposed to look and feel like Lemmings 2: The Tribes and Lemmings 3D respectively.

Lemmings Open Air (LOA) will contain all skills which are currently part of the latest stable version of NeoLemmix (12.10), i.e. including the Shimmier and the Jumper.
It will be noticeable though that those skills were introduced alongside development, because the first two ranks only feature the Shimmier, as far as new skills are concerned, whereas the Jumper doesn't appear until rank 3 of 4.

However, I feel like I still want to make at least one pack using classic tilesets (like LOA) that will also feature all the skills the final version of NeoLemmix is going to have.

Once LHF and LDR are finished, I will have done music-themed packs in style of classical Lemmings, Lemmings 2: The Tribes, and Lemmings 3D. So it seems to me like the music-theme will be pretty much (over-)done at that point.

I have already decided that I will NOT make a music-themed pack inspired by Lemmings 3: An All New World of Lemmings. I've never played it during my childhood, haven't played it much either since I joined the forums, and I think it strays so far from original lemmings (including the larger sprites etc.) that it feels completely different. Emulating it in NeoLemmix would require a bunch of pickup skills, plus always providing infinite Walkers, Blockers, Jumpers etc. And I would have to be an avid fan of Lemmings 3 to do it, which I'm not.

If we do end up getting additional objects as well, specifically portals (=non-release-rate sensitive teleporters) and toggles to turn certain terrain sections on and off, I could still see myself making a music-themed pack in style of Lemmings Revolution.
However, we don't have any tilesets that are particularly reminiscent of Lemmings Revolution. Plus, an accurate simulation of Lemmings Revolution may or may not require the presence of (horizontal) level wrap.



Therefore, I would be perfectly fine with dropping the music theme after Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll (Lemmings: Hall of Fame will most likely come out first) and make my next pack about something completely different.

I've kind of always needed an overarching theme ever since I released Pit Lems, which felt a little meaningless to me because it was just an arbitrary collection of (albeit satisfactory) puzzles.
Our community is quite small, so whenever I make a pack full of references to a specific topic, I of course want to choose something that as many people as possible will "get".

That's why I want to determine early in which direction I will be going, theme-wise. Mainly because the current experimental version with the new skills is restricted to classic, ONML, and Christmas tilesets.
(I do get the impression that namida did this on purpose so that I wouldn't use any L2 styles, treating those levels as if I could already make them part of Lemmings Hall of Fame . That's why I went with Pillar exclusively so far, because those levels can still become part of the L2 Classic tribe. )

I don't know how long the experimental phase for the new skills is going to last, but assuming all four skills get introduced, over the course of the experimental phase, I will probably end up with a bunch of levels in classic tilesets that stylistically won't fit into any of the packs I'm currently working on, once the experimental phase has been completed. (LOA uses classic tilesets, but level creation has already been completed for several weeks now.)



So here are a bunch of alternative themes, other nerd topics, that a future pack of mine designed around all skills equally could be based upon:

1) Magic: The Gathering. With a player base always ranging in at least two-digit millions, and thus larger than the population of quite a few countries, a Multiverse of Lemming planeswalkers would have a high chance of containing references familiar to fellow "nerds". And I could use the different tilesets to represent different planes of the multiverse. Most likely, it would not suffice to restrict myself to classic and ONML tilesets here, and some levels may tilt towards my "level painting" style again, as represented by the geography levels in Lemmings World Tour. However, I hope that pack has shown that artistic quality doesn't necessarily have to come at the cost of puzzle quality (though some may disagree on that ). Most level titles would probably refer to names of individual cards, though I could see references to places, names of editions (sets), or events as well. I could also use differently coloured sprites to represent various species / tribes from the MtG worlds (e.g. a recolouring of GigaLem's Millas to represent Elves).
Pack title: Lemmings: The Gathering
Rank names: Novice, Apprentice, Magician, Adept, Planeswalker

2) Horror Films. Movies were on the above-linked list of themes I made two years ago, and because that topic would be just a little too vast in my book, I'd focus on the "disturbing" side of cinema (or usually: direct-to-DVD releases ^^) specifically. A couple of years ago, I took a little dive into the cesspool of the most f*ed-up sh*t that writers and directors have come up with so far. So if you ever wanted to see a "Lemming Centipede" or play "The 120 levels of Sodom", this would be the place to go .
Again, I could see myself using other tilesets than classic ones for this - in particular, there have been quite a few Horror- / Halloween related tilesets. Those tend to be more on the spooky than the gory side, though. So there would definitely also be frequent appearances of the Menace tileset for "Splatter levels". The level titles would probably just refer to the movie names, or to a quote from the movies, if there are particularly memorable or (in-)famous ones. Zombies would probably be more frequent again, and the lemming death toll per level would most likely be higher than usual.
Pack title: Lemmings Slaughterhouse
Rank names (taken from Paralems): Harmless, Disturbing, Disgusting, Abhorrent, Demented

3) Memes. We already have Rickrolling as a tileset, and Pepe the Frog on the L2 Outdoor tileset. And some memes that are based on other songs (e.g. Numa Numa, Trololo) I have already featured in Lemmings World Tour. Those few levels may therefore be worth using again, or I would just create a separate level, referring to the meme specifically instead of the song it's based on. From a Climber-introduction level named "Well that escalated quickly" over "You keep using that skill" and "I don't always play Lemmings (but when I do)..." to puzzles that are so confusing that they just deserve a straight-up Captain Picard "What the f*ck...?" meme, the level titles in such a pack should be understandable to anyone who is somewhat regularly active on the internet.
Pack title: Lemmings Social Network
Rank names: P-C, Mainstream, Offensive, Edgy, Shitlord

4) Astronomy. Starting on Earth, traveling through the solar system, to Alpha Centauri and beyond, eventually leaving the Milky Way towards Andromeda until we reach the edge of the DMA universe, we will search the depths of the cosmos for other forms of unintelligent life. This presents a possible opportunity for the re-appearance of the level "I'm your Venus" from Lemmings World Tour, as well as for a follow-up level named "Uranus" from Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll. Apart from that, lemming space is pretty much still unexplored. The different tilesets could be used to represent different planets and moons, or at least different types of worlds (rocky planets, water worlds, gas giants etc.). Level titles wouldn't come up quite as easily as with the other themes, but it should still be doable.
Music-wise, I would consider doing orchestral versions of the original Lemmings tracks this time. Those would be much easier to record, because I could do it all via MIDI. And it would be stylistically more similar to film music from actual SciFi movies and series.
Pack title: Lemmings Universe
Rank names: Planetary, Stellar, Galactic, Universal (the first three are taken from the Kardashev scale, and Universal would just be the next possible utopian extension after "Galactic")

5) Music. If I were to stick to the music theme (i.e. every level title is a song title), I could try to simulate a Lemmings-Revolution experience in NeoLemmix - using Zombies for the occasional Weasels. Colorful Arty's Water Lemmings would also appear somewhat frequently. In the absence of gravity reversal, Shimmiers and other skills that can affect the ceiling (like Fencers, and eventually Spearers and Laserers) would fill that gap. If we don't get portals, regular teleporters would be used instead. And if we don't get level wrap, teleporters can partly simulate that as well. I'd have to check the Lemmings Revolution music tracks again to see whether it would be worthwhile to create self-recorded versions of those. That would be another novelty then.
Alternatively, I could create a second music-themed pack with classic tilesets, i.e. similar to Lemmings Open Air, but maybe actually easier than that.
Pack title: Lemmings Band Camp
Rank names: Noob, Punk, Shredder, Virtuoso, Maestro



I haven't decided on the size of the pack yet - it might be smaller than most of those I've done so far.
Thus, those ideas don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.
It's reasonable to assume though that a pack featuring all skills would require a good deal of introductory levels, and should therefore have an appropriate minimum size so that those introductory levels don't make up a majority share of the entire pack.

I gave every user two votes at first to narrow down the choices; in the end, I might put up a second poll to decide between the top two candidates, in case the race is close.

I'm completely fine with that!

If any of these objects are ever going to be implemented at all, from those still eligible as contenders...

Willing to consider
- Portals (teleporters that are constant rather than triggered; ie: a portal is to a teleporter, what a fire object is to a triggered trap)
- Toggle buttons or switches (perhaps with a limited scope on what they can toggle; but this could possibly include terrain - with the catch that any toggleable terrain must be steel)
- No-assignment field
- Permanent skill assigner
- Zombifier / Neutral-ifier (and/or reversals thereof)
- Downdraft
- Paint (specific object type for only-on-terrain effect, to replace that effect in general)

Strong contenders
- Permanent skill remover
- No-effect triggered animations (this one will happen unless there's significant opposition to it)

I'd only really be interested in Portals and Toggle buttons / switches, as both would allow for more Lemmings-Revolution level design.

And maybe permanent skill assigners and removers, which would allow for level design in style of the puzzle game Star Wars: Pit Droids.
Interestingly though, I'd actually care more about permanent skill assigners than removers. Because basically, that would be a halfway reintroduction of instant pickup skills , albeit just for permanent (=athletic) skills, not e.g. Builders.

But I can do without any of those, as long as we get to keep all the new four skills!

Hi David,

Thanks for confirming what I have always been prophecizing: That new forum members would miss these former, now culled features after finding out about them .

Both timed Bombers and Rising water are things that would most likely be regarded by the majority of the NeoLemmix community as things that add execution difficulty without adding much to the cognitive challenge, i.e. the puzzle solution itself.

Rising water in particular was one of many gimmicks, which were pretty much removed all at once, as far as I know. The only gimmick that remained was zombies, because they were apparently comparatively popular. The others however of course caused lots of complexity, especially when several gimmicks were combined. If New Formats still had all the gimmicks, introducing any new skill would be a lot more effort, I reckon, because not only the standard behaviour of that skill and all its interactions with other skills have to be programmed, but also its behaviour modification under all possible combiations of gimmicks.

I doubt that rising water will ever be introduced into New Formats.
a) Because NeoLemmix is approaching its final version
b) Because most things that rising water adds to puzzles (=timing restrictions) can also be achieved by simply adding a time limit to a level (exceptions being using waters as "lifts" for Swimmers, to free Swimmer-Blockers, or break falls; or having fire objects rise as well)

You can still play levels with rising water and all the other gimmicks by using NeoLemmix 1.43. Go to the link in my signature to my 1.43 pack "Lemmicks - Lemmings with gimmicks!" You can also download the old editor there, as well as all the graphic sets that were available for that version. That way you can design levels with gimmicks yourself.

Just be aware that version 1.43 comes with quite a few drawbacks. Of course, there are no new drawbacks added to that version. But the furher New Formats NeoLemmix develops, the more "backwards" that old version will feel.


namida discourages creation of levels for "outdated" versions. I for one consider NeoLemmix 1.43 effectively a completely different engine by now: A different file format, different skill set, different objects (radiation and slowfreeze), Ghost lemmings, plus all the gimmicks.

So it's not outdated, it's just different. And yes, probably in sum inferior to New Formats NeoLemmix. Just like I consider SuperLemmini, Lix, WinLems, and Lemmix inferior to NeoLemmix. But at the end of the day, that is up to taste. All of these other engines enjoy just as much of a loyal userbase.

If you want to use gimmicks, you need to use NeoLemmix 1.43 (player, styles, and editor).
If you want to use timed Bombers (as I wanted as well when starting out), you can use Lemmix. That is the predecessor to NeoLemmix (not to be confused with Lemmicks, which is my aforementioned pack with rising water and other gimmicks for NeoLemmix 1.43 ).

Alright, here's my first level (I had this idea in mind for a while), and two ways to solve it.

The first solution involves two Laserers and doesn't use the Spearer. The second solution replaces the first Laserer with two Spearers, with the Shimmier landing on top of those spears to fence instead. Note that one Spearer is not enough, because the Shimmier will shimmy into the spear and slide down instead (given that it's also a Slider).

Note that the replay using the Spearer still requires one Laserer to free the Blocker at the end. Doing this with another Fencer would require an additional Builder to connect to the wall, plus an additional destructive skill to remove that staircase again later on.

The Spearer solution is a 100% solution. This is because the Spearer causes the Slider to turn around an additional time, thereby preventing him from walking off into the water and dying.

There you go: Interactions of the new skills! The Spearer improves the solution even further!

All four new skills have to stay in my book!


PS: Yes, I'm aware that the Spearer allows you to backroute the level as it currently is, by simply using it to break the fall on the right side. I just put it into this level to allow for both solutions. If all the skills do indeed remain in the stable version and this level can thus become an actual level, I will obviously make further changes to it to either enforce the Spearer use at the right spot, or go with the 2-Laserer solution instead (i.e. not providing any Spearers).

+1 from my side as well. Opening the save dialog would also make it easier to tell if you have already manually saved a replay or not. Otherwise, you might press U several times during the level, just to be on the safe side, and potentialy create a bunch of redundant replays that are hard to distinguish in hindsight.

You could try Arty's SubLems as well; it has a very nice and steady difficulty curve, and it has recently been made available for New Formats at last.

Most likely, it will be too easy for you overall, but if even Lemmings Migration had a couple of levels that managed to stump even you for a while, then at least the Hellish rank of SubLems might still have some challenging surprises for you.

Sounds like I really need to start watching your LPs, kaywhyn! Even if Arty leaves the Let's-Play community eventually, I'm confident you will be able to fill that gap!

Especially with regards to harder packs, since you're one of our most adept level solvers. Some of the packs that Arty considered too hard to play on video could then get their time to shine if it's you who's let's-playing them.

Of course, there are IchoTolot's replay videos, but those are things I really just use when I need a "walkthrough" or hint on some level. Not something I watch for entertainment; that requires a human voice in the background at least. (Which is why I've enjoyed IchoTolot's LP of Lemmings 2: The Tribes very much, in contrast! )

namida used to do Let's Plays for a while as well, but even he got stumped by NepsterLems eventually on the Black Hole rank. I'd be curious to see whether anyone can solve it live and on camera in its entirety...