Lemmings Plus DOS Project

[ccexplore]

Also, has anyone solved the new, fixed versions of PSYCHO 8 and PSYCHO 23?

I've just emailed you some solutions......

[Frevett]

100%-ability List
Danger 16 "Grounded" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 80%.

85% is possible.

[namida]

@cc: GODDAMNIT. Yes, all 3 are backroutes. >_>

@Frevett: Replay? Or am I just overlooking something really obvious?

[Frevett]

The 85% solution feels pretty easy compared to the other levels around it, and I can't see what your intended 80% solution is.
Kind of new to this and don't know how to record replays, but it's fairly straightforward to describe:

Make the first 4 lemmings floaters. When the first one hits the ground on the bottom level make him a blocker to turn the other three round.
Make lemming 6 a blocker as soon as he lands from the exit, up the release rate to 99
Make lemmings 2&3 into climbers.
Set lemming 4 bridging as soon as he turns around from the lemming 1 blocker.
Make lemming 2 an exploder while he's climbing up the wall to the right: about when his head is level with the top of the exit.
Lemming 3 climbs into the crevice the explosion made; make him bridge to the left just before he falls back down to the bottom level. When his bridge is half complete, make lemming 6 (the blocker) an exploder.
Explode the other blocker on the bottom level. The two bridges should stop the other lemmings dying of height.

[namida]

Ah. My solution was to use two seperate bridges from bomber holes, thus splitting the one large fall into three small ones. Didn't even think about building from the ground.


Anyway, as far as backroute fixes go, I'm currently making a few modifications so that the player runs off an oddtable. At the moment, there's simply a duplicate copy of the duplicate levels, which makes any modifications on levels with repeats, such as PSYCHO 8, a pain (on the other hand, levels that don't have repeats such as PSYCHO 23, aren't so much of a problem). The player already supports it fully, and the new DAT files are done, it's just a matter of making up the Oddtable file.

I'm also considering beefing up the difficulty of Coalburner, since I found some slight modifications that give a whole new, and much harder, solution - think it's really fair, though, to make a major change to an existing level? (Keep in mind that the change would result in an entirely different new solution).

[namida]

Okay. Version 5 uploaded. Changes:

- Behind the scenes change, but the player now uses Oddtable.dat for duplicates, instead of storing two copies of the level. This makes updating a lot easier.
- More backroute fixes on PSYCHO 8 and PSYCHO 23. I'm almost certain they're all gone on PSYCHO 23, although I'm half-expecting more to pop up on 8...
- The difficulty of PSYCHO 9 has been bumped up several degrees. The new solution is completely different to the old one.
- PSYCHO 27 now enforces the left-exit solution, as well as making it slightly harder.

[ccexplore]

check your email again for more possible curses and disappointments on psycho 8 & 23 (actually I'm probably going to stop posting this kind of post and just assume you'll check email regularly enough)

[namida]

Yeah, I get a notification whenever I receive one.

ARGH @ both. >_> I actually have no idea how to completely remove that kind of possibility on PSYCHO 23 without breaking the intended route...

As for PSYCHO 8 though, I could easily remove any possibility of that route, but it would make the intended solution less hidden...

Did you have any luck with the new PSYCHO 9?

[ccexplore]

Did you have any luck with the new PSYCHO 9?

See email.  I have never actually got around to solving the original version, is the old version really so much easier?  I'd think that the old version requiring a more roundabout route under the steel (I'm guessing) would at least be more interesting to find.

[edit: apparently it was a backroute.  I guess when you're level designer you do tend to overlook the obvious.  (I'm not fully immune in that regard, as have been observed in some of my custom L2 levels.)]

[namida]

The old version is very easy compared to the intended solution on the new one. However, if you want to try it, download the data files attached to the first post, it's the 9th level in LEVEL012.DAT. I haven't updated those and don't plan to, now that I'm using oddtable to manage the duplicates.

[namida]

Hm. There's still a right-exit solution to PSYCHO 27 after all... but at least it's quite a bit harder than the old one. Still not as hard as the left-exit one though. Grr. And it's probably impossible to remove while still keeping the level's symmetry in the bottom half.

[namida]

Wow. I just managed PSYCHO 20 "No Time To Die" with 26 seconds left on the clock... using only 1 climber and 3 builders, thus a new low for both (previously, the records were 3 climbers and 4 builders, and those weren't done in the same run). Other skills unrestricted.

Still need to try and find minimums for bashers, miners and diggers though.

EDIT: The level can be beaten without any diggers at all.
EDIT 2: Same for miners. So it's 1 climber, 3 builders, and an unknown amount (possibly even zero) for bashers. I do have at least one theory on beating it without bashers, but I've yet to test it. I definately can't see any way to beat it without at least one climber, although 2 builders might be possible (1 is out of the question, you need at least one to slide and one to cover the gap near the top... hm, unless a slide on the right is possible... (edit: which it may be, since you can get low enough to go under the trap))
EDIT 3: Completed with no bashers. Only thing that remains is seeing if two, or even one, builder is possible.

Final edit: 2 builders is possible. 1 is not.

Also, on that note... I managed to improve the time to 36 seconds remaining. Anything beyond this is probably a matter of shaving off small bits rather than a huge refinement.

[namida]

I've just begun work on a sequel pack. It will feature 100 levels, again over 5 difficulty rankings, and this time, no repeats, whether from the original or from other levels in the sequel. However, that doesn't mean there aren't levels based on similar ideas (for example, one of the levels I've made so far has the same basic premise as No Time To Die - 20 lemmings, 100%, RR99, 2 minutes, 9 of each skill, and relies heavily on multitasking, but the solution and design are both very different than NTTD - and in my opinion, it's a LOT harder).

My aim is for the first rank (Cheesy) to be comparable to late Wimpy and Medi, the second (Dodgy) to Danger, the third (Gloomy) to PSYCHO, and the last two (Painful and Ninja), a new standard in difficulty as far as I'm concerned... that's going to be hard work, but a lot of people felt even most of PSYCHO was too easy, so... =P

I'm also trying something a bit different with the music rotation: It has 15 tracks, but rather than rotate the same 15 tracks throughout the whole game, there's instead a different rotation of 3 tracks for each difficulty ranking.

Finally, one change I plan on making - and yes, I am very aware this is going to be controversial, but ultimately it's my pack and I like it this way better - there will be no more timers on bombers. Bombers will explode instantly (they'll still have the "Oh no!"). However, since it exists solely for effect (since I don't make levels that rely on it), use of the nuke will still apply the 5 second countdown.

So far, I've only got 6 levels completed... four for Cheesy, one for Dodgy, and one for Painful.

[Simon]

Immediate exploders are an interesting simplification of micromanagement, I like the idea. They will not alter the possible solutions in any critical way -- the only new possibility is to explode a lemming less than 5 seconds after spawn.

-- Simon

[namida]

I've reuploaded the original Lemmings Plus DOS Project with a tweak to reflect this modification, try it out and see how you like it.