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Offline namida

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Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« on: November 26, 2009, 11:07:52 AM »
Lemmings Plus Games Index
Lemmings Plus DOS Project
A Lemmix-based pack of 150 levels using the official graphic sets. Lemmings Plus DOS Project mostly stays true to the original mechanics, even including glitches, but did introduce the staple Lemmings Plus feature of having non-timed bombers.
(Topic) | (Download)

Lemmings Plus II
A Lemmix-based pack of 100 levels + 5 secret levels using five new graphic sets. Introduces the concepts of Frenzy and Gimmick levels, as well as secret levels; though the engine is a modified version of traditional Lemmix, not NeoLemmix.
Has a bonus pack of 30 levels + 2 secret levels focusing on repeats and gimmick/frenzy levels.
(Topic) | (Download) | (Download Bonus Pack)

Lemmings Plus III
A NeoLemmix-based pack of 60 levels + 9 secret levels using four new graphic sets. Lemmings Plus III is the first pack in the series to use the NeoLemmix engine.
Has a bonus pack of 35 levels + 7 secret levels focusing on repeats and gimmick levels.
(Topic) | (Download) | (Download Bonus Pack)

Holiday Lemmings Plus
A small NeoLemmix-based pack of 12 levels exclusively using the Christmas graphic set. Holiday Lemmings Plus is the first pack in the series to use the new NeoLemmix skills and vertical scrolling.
(Topic) | (Download)

Lemmings Plus Flashbacks
An NeoLemmix-based collection pack featuring 32 of the best levels selected from Lemmings Plus DOS Project, Lemmings Plus II and Lemmings Plus III.
(Topic) | (Download)

Lemmings Plus Omega
An NeoLemmix-based pack of 135 levels using the Lemmings Plus II and Lemmings Plus III graphic sets. It is the last entry in the Lemmings Plus series.
(Topic) | (Download)



The Lemmings Plus DOS Project is a pack of 150* DOS/Lemmix levels, sorted into 5 difficulty ranks - Mild, Wimpy, Medi, Danger and PSYCHO.
Mild is mostly comparable to Tame. It contains levels that are short and simple (although in general, most levels in this pack are short).
Wimpy is comparable to Fun/Tricky, containing slightly more complicated easy levels as well as a few simple puzzles.
Medi is comparable to Taxing, containing a few difficult x-of-everything levels as well as some good puzzles.
Danger is comparable to Mayhem or ONML - it's where things get hard.
PSYCHO is mostly in a class of its own (Sunsoft, maybe?). It's a HUGE jump from Danger.

* 95 unique maps. Like the original game, it has repeats, including a "once per difficulty rank" level (but I think you'll find No Salvation to be FAR more interesting than We All Fall Down).

Of course, all ranks have levels that are harder than most of that rank, and ones that are easier than most. For example, Mild 26 and 30 are HUGE jumps in difficulty from the rest of Mild (although still pretty damn easy), and Danger 22 could easily have made it into PSYCHO. For examples of the reverse, the first few levels of Wimpy are easier than some Mild levels, and PSYCHO 14 is more a Medi (or *maybe* Danger) type level. This is mostly intentional, to give easy breaks as well as sudden challenges.

All my Lemmings-related downloads have been moved to DropBox. The Lemmings Plus DOS downloads are here.

Version updates:
V1 - Initial release.
V2 - Fixed a problem with fall distance. (Player update only, levels remain as is.)
V3 - Fixed a problem with level codes. (Player update only, levels remain as is.)
V4 - Incorporated all recent ccexplore updates to Lemmix Player. Also made modifications to several levels, some are name changes or purely aesthetic, some are backroute fixes. Levels modified are Mild 20, Mild 26, Wimpy 7, Wimpy 15, Wimpy 20, Medi 6, Medi 13, Danger 20, PSYCHO 8, PSYCHO 23, PSYCHO 26 and PSYCHO 29. This includes, at last, a fixing of the major backroute on PSYCHO 23 "Death Row"!
V4a - A minor fix on PSYCHO 9 "Coalburner", to do with steel areas.
V5 - More backroute fixes on PSYCHO 8 and PSYCHO 23, and the difficulty has been knocked up on PSYCHO 9 and PSYCHO 27.
V6 - Bombers are no longer timed, they now explode instantly. (They still have the Oh No animation where applicable.) This does not extend to use of the nuke. I feel this is a long overdue change.
V7 - Several of the overly annoying or pointless levels have been replaced with better ones, in most cases completely original. Replaced levels are Wimpy 12, Medi 8, Medi 16, Medi 21, Danger 17 and Danger 21. In the case of Danger 17 (fixed), it has been replaced with its own repeat version (PSYCHO 27), which has in turn been replaced with a new level. Also, more backroute fixes on the backroute-infamous PSYCHO 23.
V8 - Updated to a newer version of the Lemmix player.

Cheat codes of the form of typing in, eg, "MILD20" to access Mild 20, can be enabled by entering the code NIGERFAGOT (it was changed to this in, I believe, V5; if you're playing an older version, try CHEZBURGER). Pressing 5 to skip levels is also enabled by this code in V8, while in V4 - V7, it is always enabled (V1 - V3 did not support it at all).

Level name references
Code: [Select]
Many names are just random, but for those that have meanings relating to the level (other than to its design), or referencing other things:

Mild 1 "Just Walk!" - An obvious reference to Fun 1 "Just Dig!"
Mild 8 "Wish you had them?" - Also obvious, a reference to the absence of bashers in the level.
Mild 10 "Take Your Time..." - A hint not to assign climbers too quickly.
Mild 13 "Take A Shortcut!" - Referencing just building across the gap as a possible solution.
Mild 14 "Let's Go!" - This one should be obvious.
Mild 17 "Crying Over Spilt Lemming" - From the saying "Crying over spilt milk"
Mild 22 "Blow Down!!!" - A reference to the use of bombers in the level.
Mild 24 "With A Little Creativity..." - A reference to digging under the steel.
Mild 28 "The Descending Pillar Scenario" - A reference to Taxing 11 "The Ascending Pillar Scenario"
Mild 30 "You Just Lost The Game!" - See www.losethegame.com

Wimpy 4 "You Spin Me Right Round" - ...baby right round like a record baby right round round round
Wimpy 8 "(Also they are ninjas.)" - A reference to the "My Black Kid" song from Family Guy
Wimpy 13 "A Magician Would Be Handy" - A reference to Tricky 3 "A Ladder Would Be Handy"
Wimpy 19 "Whether You Lem It Or Not" - A play on the phrase "Whether you like it or not"
Wimpy 20 "A Snowplow Would Be Handy" - Another reference to Tricky 3
Wimpy 22 "Fast enough?" - Somewhat a hint at the level.

Medi 7 "Leap of Faith" - A hint at the solution.
Medi 9 "The Dukes Of Lemmingsville" - A reference to The Dukes of Hazzard (despite me knowing pretty much just the name)
Medi 10 "Bob's Mistake" - It's the name of a waterslide at a semi-local waterpark.
Medi 15 "Shooting Star" - A somewhat subtle hint to use falling bombers.
Medi 17 "Six Feet Under" - An expression referring to death, used as a play on the earlier version being "The Graveyard"
Medi 18 "Going Under" - A hint at the solution.
Medi 24 "Eye of the Lemming" - A play on "Eye of the storm"
Medi 25 "Chain Reaction" - It's a horrible pun.
Medi 27 "Take A Dive" - A reference to Fun 1 from 3D Lemmings, also titled "Take a dive"

Danger 6 "Alternative Logic" - A slight hint at the solution.
Danger 11 "The Warp Room" - A reference to Crash Bandicoot
Danger 12 "When Life Gives You Lemmings..." - A play on "When life gives you lemons"
Danger 28 "Steps" - A hint at the solution.

PSYCHO 3 "Express Lane" - A reference to the 12 items or less lanes at shops, notice the 12 lemmings, and 12 skills?
PSYCHO 4 "Think Outside The Square!" - A hint to literally go outside the level's sides
PSYCHO 7 "Turn Back With Care" - Probably the vaguest description possible of the majority of the solution
PSYCHO 10 "What Did You Expect?" - A reference to it being a bomber timing level originally
PSYCHO 13 "Go High Go Low" - A hint at having to use both the top and bottom parts of the level.
PSYCHO 26 "Oblivion" - Originally, this level was named after Anima's overdrive (from Final Fantasy X)
PSYCHO 30 "Hellfire!" - Similarly, this one was Ifrit's reccuring attack in the Final Fantasy series
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2009, 11:23:35 AM »
100%-ability List
Warning: Some possible %s may spoil solutions, read at your own risk.
Also, these are my own results only. You may be able to beat some.
Quote
-= Mild =-
Totals: 1 required, 1 impossible, 28 optional

Mild 1 "Just Walk" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 2 "Be Careful..." - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 3 "Heading on in..." - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 4 "In The Style Of..." - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 5 "The Graveyard" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 6 "The Cells" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 7 "The Staircase" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 8 "Wish you had them?" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 9 "Tricky Hit" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 10 "Take Your Time" - 100% is required.
Mild 11 "Cliff Climber Lemming" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 12 "On The Pier" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 13 "Take A Shortcut" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 14 "Let's Go!" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 15 "On The Other Side" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 16 "Farewell, My Lemming" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 17 "Crying Over Spilt Lemming" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 18 "Dying Not Reccomended" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 19 "Up To Where We Go" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 20 "25909" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 21 "Falling Away From Everything..." - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 22 "Blow Down" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 76%.
Mild 23 "Step Softly" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 24 "With A Little Creativity..." - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 25 "Across The Ditch" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 26 "No Salvation" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 27 "The Quarantine" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Mild 28 "The Descending Pillar Scenario" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 29 "We All Die Someday" - 100% is possible, easy.
Mild 30 "You Just Lost The Game!" - 100% is possible, moderate.



-= Wimpy =-
Totals: 4 required, 2 impossible, 24 optional

Wimpy 1 "Lemming Net" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 2 "Lucky Charm" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 3 "Just For Fun" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Wimpy 4 "You Spin Me Right Round" - 100% is required.
Wimpy 5 "Get Together" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 6 "Two Pathways" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 7 "No Salvation" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Wimpy 8 "(Also they are ninjas.)" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 9 "It's a thin line!" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 10 "Labyrinth of Despair" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 11 "The Flagpole" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 12 "Russian Rescue" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
Wimpy 13 "A Magician Would Be Handy" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Wimpy 14 "Head East or West?" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 15 "Just When You Think You Know!" - 100% is possible, hard.
Wimpy 16 "Lemmings on Stilts" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 17 "No Need To Worry!" - 100% is possible, easy..
Wimpy 18 "Down The Wall" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 19 "Whether You Lem It Or Not" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 20 "A Snowplow Would Be Handy" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 21 "One Step At A Time" - 100% is required.
Wimpy 22 "Fast Enough?" - 100% is required.
Wimpy 23 "It's A Strange Land" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 24 "Up, Down, Round & Round!" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 25 "Down With The Lemmings!" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 26 "Saviour" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
Wimpy 27 "Ready, Aim, Fire!" - 100% is required.
Wimpy 28 "Get up, up, up!" - 100% is possible, easy.
Wimpy 29 "Only One Place To Go" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Wimpy 30 "Counterlogical" - 100% is possible, easy.



-= Medi =-
Totals: 5 required, 9 impossible, 16 optional

Medi 1 "Secret to Success" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 2 "The T Level" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 3 "The Box" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Medi 4 "Getting There..." - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 96%.
Medi 5 "Safety Blast" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 96%.
Medi 6 "Fallen" - 100% is required.
Medi 7 "Leap of Faith" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 8 "Cavern of Chills" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 9 "The Dukes of Lemmingsville" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 10 "Bob's Mistake" - 100% is required.
Medi 11 "The Long Road To Lemming High" - 100% is possible, hard.
Medi 12 "Step Up!" - 100% is required.
Medi 13 "No Salvation" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Medi 14 "All Roads Lead To Home" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Medi 15 "Shooting Star" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 95%.
Medi 16 "The Oddstack" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 97%.
Medi 17 "Six Feet Under" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 93%.
Medi 18 "Going Under" - 100% is possible.
Medi 19 "Force Field" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 20 "The Diving Board" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 21 "As It Burns Away..." - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 96%.
Medi 22 "Lemming Entertainment Center" - 100% is possible, hard.
Medi 23 "This Is..." - 100% is required.
Medi 24 "Eye of the Lemming" - 100% is required.
Medi 25 "Chain Reaction" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Medi 26 "Overheat" - 100% is possible, easy.
Medi 27 "Take A Dive" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
Medi 28 "Way Up High" - 100% is possible, hard.
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 95%.
Medi 30 "Consider Everything..." - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.



-= Danger =-
Totals: 11 required, 11 impossible, 8 optional

Danger 1 "Inside Outside" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 93%.
Danger 2 "Metal Lands" - 100% is required.
Danger 3 "Backdraft" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 90%.
Danger 4 "In The Life Of A Lemming" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Danger 5 "Some Kind Of Lemming" - 100% is required.
Danger 6 "Alternative Logic" - 100% is required.
Danger 7 "Unholy Staircase" - 100% is required.
Danger 8 "With A Quirk Or Two" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 96%.
Danger 9 "Wall of Wisdom" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 81%.
Danger 10 "Keeping On Track" - 100% is possible, hard.
Danger 11 "The Warp Room" - 100% is required.
Danger 12 "When Life Gives You Lemmings" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Danger 13 "Breakthrough" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
Danger 14 "Death In All Directions" - 100% is possible, hard.
Danger 15 "Circular Wavelength" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 97%.
Danger 16 "Grounded" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 90%.
Danger 17 "Perfectionism" - 100% is required.
Danger 18 "The Buildo Station" - 100% is required.
Danger 19 "Antigravity" - 100% is required.
Danger 20 "No Salvation" - 100% is possible, moderate.
Danger 21 "It's The Latest Craze" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 95%.
Danger 22 "Die the Death of the Damned" - 100% is required.
Danger 23 "Lair of the Fallen Lemming" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
Danger 24 "Find A Way Out!" - 100% is possible, easy.
Danger 25 "Use The Pen!" - 100% is required.
Danger 26 "So that's the plan..." - 100% is possible, hard.
Danger 27 "The Deadly Climb" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 40%.
Danger 28 "Steps" - 100% is required.
Danger 29 "Pipeline Problem" - 100% is possible, VERY hard.
Danger 30 "The Hideout" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.



-= PSYCHO =-
Totals: 8 required, 18 impossible, 4 optional

PSYCHO 1 "Variety Day" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 90%.
PSYCHO 2 "The Parking Lot" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
PSYCHO 3 "Express Lane" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 91%.
PSYCHO 4 "Think Outside The Square!" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 73%.
PSYCHO 5 "Lightspeed Lemming" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 91%.
PSYCHO 6 "The Bulldozer" - 100% is possible, easy.
PSYCHO 7 "Turn Back With Care" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 97%.
PSYCHO 8 "Snowed In!" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 90%.
PSYCHO 9 "Coalburner" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 92%.
PSYCHO 10 "What Did You Expect?" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 96%.
PSYCHO 11 "Three Birds With One Stone" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 97%.
PSYCHO 12 "Not gonna work." - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 13 "Go High Go Low" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
PSYCHO 14 "Lemmerixo" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 15 "Where Anything Goes" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 16 "Crosswork" - 100% is possible, moderate.
PSYCHO 17 "Meeting Spot" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 90%.
PSYCHO 18 "Return of the T" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 19 "A Perfect Nightmare" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 20 "No Time To Die" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 21 "KAMIKAZE!!!" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 93%.
PSYCHO 22 "Twins" - 100% is possible, hard and requires a glitch.
PSYCHO 23 "Death Row" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 93%.
PSYCHO 24 "Gone In A Flash" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 75%.
PSYCHO 25 "Bullet Lemming" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.
PSYCHO 26 "Oblivion" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 95%.
PSYCHO 27 "No Time To Die (Part II)" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 28 "To The End!" - 100% is required.
PSYCHO 29 "No Salvation" - 100% is possible, hard.
PSYCHO 30 "Hellfire" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 98%.

Random Lemmings Plus DOS Project Trivia

- In a voteoff between all levels of LPDOS, the best level was voted to be Medi 6 "Fallen".
> > This level was then pitted against the LPII winner, Genius 8 "Panic Attack". At the time of writing this that vote has not yet closed, but Panic Attack is winning by a large margin.

- The name "Lemmings Plus DOS Project" was originally just a codename while the pack was in development. Due to lack of any better ideas, it stuck. The sequel packs also had codenames prior to an official name being chosen, those being "Lemmings Plus 5 Project" for LPII and "Lemmings Plus X Project" for LPIII. (LPIIB was always called "Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack" from the beginning of development.)

- The first level in LP DOS to be made ever was Danger 11 "The Warp Room". It is in fact my oldest surviving DOS level, and possibly my oldest surviving level full stop (I'm not sure which is older - it or "Dialing 309 2000" from Lemmings Plus 1).
> > This other contender was remade for LP DOS but is not immediately recognizable from its source. The remake is Danger 22 "Die the Death of the Damned".

- The first level in LP DOS to be made specifically for it (other than remakes), as far as I remember, was the No Salvations - specifically, the Psycho 29 rendition of it "No Salvation V".
> > This original form of Psycho 29 was almost identical to the one present now. The only differences were 50 lemmings (required 98%), and the title was simply "No Salvation" - it had this title in the original release, in fact all the No Salvations were titled simply "No Salvation" until version 4.

- The first remade level from the Cheapo Lemming Pluses ever was, as far as I remember, Danger 14 "Death In All Directions".
> > "Death In All Directions" was in fact not originally a Lemmings Plus level. It originally came from my an entry in my side series, "Ultimate Challenge 2". This level was however re-used in Lemmings Plus 2; and remade for Jihoon's Lemmings Remake then reused in LP DOS.

- The first remade level specifically for LP DOS was, as far as I remember, Psycho 28 "To The End!".

- Every difficulty rank except Psycho has a level which gives you 20 of every skill. Psycho itself still has a level that gives you 20 of all but one skill.

- The highest total skills given to you in one level is 320, in Medi 11 "The Long Road To Lemming High". Prior to V7, it was 336 in Wimpy 12 "Life the Universe and Everything".

- There are two levels which do not give you any skills.

- On each difficulty rank, for each skill there is at least one level that has none of that skill.

- Prior to V7, there was a major Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference - Wimpy 12 "Life the Universe and Everything". Apart from the name, the level also had 42 lemmings, required 42%, gave you 42 minutes, had 42 of each skill and a release rate of 42. And - it was the 42nd level in the pack.
> > V7 removed this level but coincidentally snuck in a new reference. At the time of releasing it, I knew how many levels were (or were thought to be) impossible to 100% for each rank, but I never bothered to total them up. Had I done so, it would have come to 43. Very recently, I discovered a 100% solution to one of these levels (Psycho 22 "Twins"), thus meaning V7 has 42 levels where 100% is impossible (as far as I'm aware).
>> Due to Akseli finding a 100% solution to Medi 18, this is no longer true.

- The "key" level (I guess you could define this as like the level that I would promote as the key selling point if I were advertising it?) from each of the Cheapo Lemmings Plus packs were all remade for LP DOS - LP1's "Return of the T", LP2's "Lemmerixo" and LP3's "To The End!" (Psycho 18, Psycho 14 and Psycho 28 respectively). The last of these three was itself can be seen as being the key level of LPDOS as well, though due to it being a remake, some might prefer to consider No Time To Die the key level instead (technically NTTD is also a remake, but the pack it was from was never released so LPDOS is the first public version of it).

- Psycho has only one level that does not give you any builders.
> > However, it has two other levels that give you builders, but they would not be used in most solutions.

- Prior to V7, Mild 18 "Dying Not Reccomended" had a repeat at Danger 21, titled "Phase Rotation Syndrome". This level still exists in the datafiles.
> > Due to this replacement, Mild 18 is the only level which uses oddtable but does not have a repeat nor is a repeat itself.

- I personally consider the 5 hardest levels to be (from hardest) Psycho 28 "To The End!", Psycho 27 "No Time To Die (Part II)", Danger 22 "Die the Death of the Damned", Psycho 20 "No Time To Die", and Medi 16 "The Oddstack".

- The zapper traps in the crystal and bubble sets are the only triggered traps which are never used in LP DOS.

- The shortest gap between a level and its repeat is 10 levels, between Mild 26 "No Salvation I" and Wimpy 7 "No Salvation II". If you exclude No Salvations, it's 14 levels, between Danger 27 "The Deadly Climb" and Psycho 12 "Not gonna work.".

- The longest gap between a level and its repeat is 126 levels, between Mild 4 "In The Style Of..." and Psycho 11 "Three Birds With One Stone". (This even beats No Salvation I and No Salvation V's seperation.)

- Every first level of a difficulty rank either has a repeat or is one. This is also true for the last levels of Wimpy, Medi and Danger, but not for those of Mild or Psycho, which both finish with a unique level.

- The most you're ever given of a single skill is 50. There are two levels which have both 50 bombers and 50 blockers (Wimpy 25 "Down With The Lemmings" and Medi 5 "Safety Blast") and one level which has 50 builders (Wimpy 24 "Up, Down, Round & Round").

- Danger 24 "Find A Way Out" originally was going to have a repeat at Psycho 23, titled "The Framework", but it was overly plagued by backroutes. Ironically, the level that became Psycho 23 "Death Row" has suffered the same fate anyway.

- I'm not sure how I didn't notice it at the time, but Mild 15 is extremely similar to Fun 15 from the original lemmings.

- Two difficulty ranks have the same number of levels that require 100% as they do of levels where it is impossible to get 100% - Mild (with 1 of each) and Danger (with 11 of each).
> > Danger, in fact, has more levels that require 100% than Psycho does.

- Of all the first and final levels of ranks, the final level of Mild is the only one to use an ONML graphic set.

- Only two of the final 10 levels require 100% - Psycho 27 "No Time To Die (Part II)" and Psycho 28 "To The End!".
> > Two others of them are possible to acheive 100% on but do not require it - Psycho 22 "Twins" and Psycho 29 "No Salvation V".

- Mild 20 "Stairway To Infinity" and its repeat Medi 6 "Fallen" have undergone multiple name changes and aesthetic redesigns since the first release of LP DOS. However, the level has never been backrouted and the design of all functional pieces has never been changed; all changes were purely cosmetic.
> > The original name of Mild 20 was "25909", I don't remember the original name of Medi 6.

- There are only two times in the entire pack where there are three levels in a row with the same graphic set. These are Mild 19-21 and Medi 10-12, with fire and brick respectively.

- PSYCHO 11 and PSYCHO 28 share the same music (as is normal for levels 11 and 28 of any rank) and graphic set. Their easier versions also share the same music as each other, being levels 4 and 21 in their respective ranks.

- The number of lemmings (53) in Mild 25 and its repeat PSYCHO 15 does not have any significance or hidden meaning; it was chosen completely randomly, just to break the monotony of always having a "normal" amount of lemmings. Generally, other levels with odd numbers of lemmings have a reason for it (for example, Danger 18).
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 02:28:11 AM »
ok, I got this and am playing through Danger right now (on 13 aorn). I think I backrouted Danger 12, though -- my route uses only one builder and neither of the alcoves (though I guess if 100% is possible then it may not be one after all, and you say you like to put in stuff like that to throw players off so who knows). I also think Danger 11 may be possible with one fewer builder than given but I haven't tried that route yet, my route wasted a builder to get a climber in on time.

EDIT: Also got 90% on Backdraft

EDIT2: PSYCHO 27 has what I am almost certain is a horrific backroute. I beat it rather easily with 1 builder, 1 basher, and the diggers. Considering the easier equivalent is in late Danger, this may be a problem.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 09:04:02 AM »
Danger 3: Replay please?

Danger 11: I'd like to see that, but as long as the route isn't too easy, it's not a major thing.

Danger 12: My 100% solution, and the intended solution, both use one of the alcoves, the other one is indeed a dud. Although it's not a huge thing, just out of interest I'd like to see your solution if you can post a replay.

PSYCHO 27: I'm well aware of that solution, it's the intended right-exit solution. See if you can find the left-exit solution too, of course - that one is a bit harder. That level's just meant to be a break - look at all the hard levels around it.

...wait, you got that far in PSYCHO yet got stuck on Danger 13? The trick on Danger 13 is VERY simple compared to some things in PSYCHO... or are you just not following the order properly? (That possibility is actually something that almost made me not release data files and only make a Lemmix player, you know!)
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Offline Clam

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2009, 09:14:23 AM »
EDIT2: PSYCHO 27 has what I am almost certain is a horrific backroute. I beat it rather easily with 1 builder, 1 basher, and the diggers. Considering the easier equivalent is in late Danger, this may be a problem.

I noticed this too. It seems you haven't accounted for the wide trigger area of the brick exit ;)
(oops, crosspost. That's intentional? Seems unusual...)

Some of your percentages can be improved (I'm sure you expected this to happen), including an easy 100% on Wimpy 29. I'll do a proper run through these later.

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2009, 09:19:16 AM »
Here's two of them. Danger 11 took a bit of fiddling though so I'll re-do that one tomorrow or Saturday.

EDIT: I didn't get stuck on Danger 13, I just stopped there. I didn't find it that hard after a bit of thought, actually.

but yea, I did sort of skip ahead in the levels a bit;  :(
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2009, 09:19:50 AM »
100% on Wimpy 29?!

...wait, nevermind. I worked out how you did that, and I wouldn't call it easy. It's pretty clever.


Awesome work on your 90% route to Backdraft, and I also found your solution to When Life Gives You Lemmings pretty clever. Not really a backroute, since it's of similar difficulty to the intended solution anyway (although almost a completely different method), but still a nice alternative way to handle the level. Here's my solution:
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Offline Dullstar

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 02:26:46 AM »
Challenge:  Mild 30 - 100%

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 07:37:16 AM »
I have a slight idea of how you may have done that, but I don't have time to try it out right now.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 07:58:30 AM »
You're confusing your own difficulty ratings there.  ;)

That said, I found a 98% solution to Medi 30 (attached), 2 lemmings more than your stated record.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 08:53:24 AM »
Ah. I was thinking all day about how it could work.

100% on Mild 30 can be done in several ways. It's challenging somewhat, but not overly hard. I've attached a replay of my favourite way, which is also a under-one-minute solution.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 05:15:40 AM »
Obviously I don't expect much trouble with Mild, Danger or Medi (they're more fun levels which could also be interesting for challenges), but how are you guys finding Danger and PSYCHO? Any levels giving people trouble? =P

Also - anyone managed 100% on Danger 29 yet? It's VERY hard.
The code is YUPICIKERU for anyone who's wanting to skip to it in the player.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 09:25:02 AM »
I just found a MAJOR problem. The included Lemmix player was compiled from code I used to make players for fanpacks, which used the Custom Lemmings fall distance, therefore, that player has the wrong fall distance. I've fixed it and am reuploading right now, but unfortunately, you'll have to redownload (or test any borderline fall replays under Lemmix editor with DOS mechanics). While most levels are only slightly effected, the longer fall distance pretty much killed Medi 17.

Those not using the Lemmix player will be fine.

@Clam: Don't worry, I already tested your Medi 30 solution with the fixed version. It still works.
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Offline Joemon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 12:58:47 PM »
I got a problem with passwords not working. I store passwords when I take a break but when I open up the game again I keep getting 'Incorrect code' and I can believe that I am writing down the passwords correctly. I am somewhere on the second skill level between levels 25 and 30.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2009, 02:06:43 PM »
According to the Lemmix website, in version 1.2 a bug in the levelcode system was fixed, so that "Codes after the 20th level work properly now."

It wasn't clear whether this means all levelcodes past the 20th level weren't working, or just that some of them might not.  Still, I'm guessing that the open-source version that namida worked off from was version 1.0 or earlier, so it probably still has that bug.  Either namida or I will email Erik to try to get the fix for this.

For now, you can use the cheat system instead.  Go to the levelcode screen and enter "CHEATCODES" to toggle "cheats enabled" on and off (you'll the text "cheats enabled" at the bottom of the levelcode screen when it's in effect, and the game remembers this setting across sessions).  When cheats are enabled, you can go to any level in any rating by entering the rating name followed by the level number in the levelcode screen (it won't usually be 10 letters/digits but that's fine).  For example, you should be able to jump to Medi 25 (say) by entering literally Medi25 for levelcode when cheats are enabled.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2009, 06:30:48 AM »
I've found the fix. Here's the new download link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/315110364/LPDOSLemmix.zip

The codes are backwards compatible. Any code you got given by the old version will work in the new one, even if it was one of the ones that didn't work before.

cc: in LemDosStyles.pas, change "for Lev := 0 to 19 do" to "for Lev := 0 to 29 do".

(PS: Any modifications you make to that file, can you please send me the exact parts that are changed and the new code in a PM, because I've heavily modified that file for the Plus player. Thanks.)
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Offline Joemon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2009, 06:14:41 PM »
I've found the fix. Here's the new download link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/315110364/LPDOSLemmix.zip

The codes are backwards compatible. Any code you got given by the old version will work in the new one, even if it was one of the ones that didn't work before.

cc: in LemDosStyles.pas, change "for Lev := 0 to 19 do" to "for Lev := 0 to 29 do".

(PS: Any modifications you make to that file, can you please send me the exact parts that are changed and the new code in a PM, because I've heavily modified that file for the Plus player. Thanks.)

Is there any other way I can download it but have to sign up and pay for being a premium user?

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2009, 10:08:45 PM »
Hey namida, for reference, I think the error Joemon is having is that after the free-user 45 second wait and clicking on the "download" button, he gets this error message:

Code: [Select]
You want to download the following file:
http://rapidshare.com/files/315110364/LPDOSLemmix.zip | 2703 KB

The download session has expired. Please click here to start the download again.

Possible reasons:

The download takes too long to be saved.
For this download, in the background your Internet Service Provider has assigned
a new IP address. If you are for example an AOL customer, or use a similar Service
Provider, please try to use a different browser. If this problem persists to exist,
you may want to purchase a Premium Account. As Premium users are not checked
against their IP address, this problem will not occur. Or your internet connection is
too slow to download the complete file within the session time.

I think the real problem might be your link though--I'm not familiar with RapidShare, but are you sure that link you posted is the correct one to use for downloading by other users?  The "315110364" might be a session number that's particular to the one time you downloaded the file yourself, or maybe it's no longer valid once you have updated the file as you did here.

Offline geoo

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2009, 10:47:32 PM »
The message I get essentially says (translated) that there are no download tickets available for non-members, and that you should purchase a premium account.

I'd recommend to stay away from rapidshare in general, as they seem to come up with all kinds of things to make getting files for there a chore just to get you purchase a premium account.
I for one am pretty much unable to download files from rapidshare at all due to having a shared IP. I only managed to get the last version of LPDOSPlayer after trying out a variety of proxies.

As for the actual levels, I've only got time to play through the first third of Psycho up to now, but I'll carry on whenever I get some more spare time.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2009, 11:37:19 PM »
I'd recommend to stay away from rapidshare in general

The Lemmings File Archive would seem to be a good place to both upload and download LPDOSPlayer.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2009, 03:37:04 AM »
I've tried, and the upload fails every time. Feel free to upload it there yourself if you can (but make sure to set a deletion password so when an update comes out the old one can be removed).

In the meantime, if anyone can't get it on RapidShare, drop me a private message or email and I can send it by email attachment.

@geoo: How did you find PSYCHO so far?
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2009, 03:40:42 AM »
I have an FTP account I can upload this to -- it's a really good pack so I'd be happy to host it if you want.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2009, 03:47:36 AM »
Sure, that'd be great. =) Thanks.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2009, 04:21:50 AM »
Ok, here's the link.

Also expect a challenge to the Danger equivalent of PSYCHO 27 soon, I like the design a lot but it deserves a harder level :P

EDIT2: Here's PSYCHO 27 left exit challenge. I like this one a lot more and I think the right exit should be removed altogether :P
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2009, 06:00:37 AM »
That's how I did it, too. =)
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2009, 06:06:26 AM »
NOTE for anyone getting virus reports on the EXE: It does NOT contain a virus. A recent update of Avast! Antivirus had a bug causing all Delphi EXEs to be reported as viruses, the latest update fixes it. The normal Lemmix players and the Lemmix editor will report the same false positives. Update your Avast! again and the reports will go away.
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Offline geoo

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2009, 12:35:34 AM »
Quote
@geoo: How did you find PSYCHO so far?
Played through the rest of Psycho today, so I can give an overall summary now. :) Though I intend to also have a go at the lower tier levels, if I get around to do so sometime.

Some comments on various levels; I won't cover all of them as it'd take way too long, but I'll send you my solutions via PM. If I don't mention a level, it doesn't mean I don't like it; I've also played and commented on some of them previously.

I like the minimalism of 'The parking lot' and 'lightspeed lemming', what I didn't like though that once having the general idea, it comes down to a lot of fine-tuning to get the timing right, which spoils the fun when playing the level a bit.
'The Bulldozer' is one of my favourites, while the base idea is pretty easy to get, you'll still have to think up a setup for it, which is the interesting part in this level.
The time limit for 'Coalburner' turns out to be pretty tight, and the lemmings walking back and forth at the bottom at some kind of random factor to it. I don't think the time challenge adds too much to the level, only some annoyance; apart from that I quite like this level.
I'm pretty certain my solution to 'Three Birds with one Stone' is a backroute, might be interesting to look for the intended solution (as long as these don't involve sending a miner through the three poles through ridiculous bomber timing and builder setup...).
For 'Not Gonna Work' I found a solution with 5 builders (iirc) leftover, while my previous solution used all of them. The terrain shapes on the left allowed me to save quite a lot of builders.
'Where anything goes' again is a level where the timer does add some challenge to it. I quite like this one. I'm glad there's Lemmix' fast forward and skip 10 seconds feature, as I wouldn't want to wait for the bashing/mining distances to be passed in the original game.
My solution to 'crossworks' make use of the frame-assignment to a ridiculous amount. It'd be extremely hard to pull off without these, but I don't see any other solution.
I'm beginning to like 'No Time to Die' more and more. I think the solution this time is the same as the 19 skill solution, just without the floater, but it was surprisingly convenient to pull off; especially taking into account the leftover skills, I'd have plenty opportunity to fix the timing if I had to.
'Kamikaze' is a somewhat weird level. On first glance it looks like you are supposed to employ some technique, especially as there are 15 gaps, and you may lose 5 lems and get 5 builders, but in the end my solution turned out surprisingly unspectacular.
'Twins' is nice simplistic level, I love the simple geometric design to it, and the solution is not difficult, yet not entirely uninteresting.
I don't know what you intended for 'Death Row', but there's a very simply bypass making the level pretty trivial. 'Perfectionism' is also way too easy for its rating, even if you go for the left exit.
'Gone in a Flash' is one of my faviourites, however remembering it having one more builder (I think?) made me realize near the and that my solution doesn't work anymore. In fact, I feel I somewhat cheated on this level, as in order to get the timing right at the beginning, I end up using a blocker to annihilate the trigger area of the trap so one of the lemming can pass it by without getting squished. I'll still have to think up a proper fix for this, I just didn't see any valid alternative at the time.
I know 'Oblivion' from your Cheapo sets, though setting the blockers in the regular way seems very fiddly here. So I kinda bypassed doing it like that. :P
Despite giving you plenty of everything (but builders), 'To The End' is a very interesting level, because despite that it doesn't mean applying the same tricks over and over again. The terrain and specifically set up problems give this level a lot of variety.
And finally, 'Hellfire'. I think it totally deserves its position at the end. I first dismissed the intuitive route as taking way to many terrain removal skills, and looked for alternatives. Taking the strategies from these alternative routes which didn't work out, I noticed that the intuitive route ended up being feasible and was the conclusive solution to the level, which suprised me to quite some extend.

Overall, for most part I enjoyed the levels a lot so far. Unrelated to the levels, why did you choose midis for the level music (the original LemmixPlayer uses modules, doesn't it)? The modules sound way superior, in the end I just turned the music off and played my own music in the background.

On an unrelated note, you might remember I hosted your LP3 sets, and iirc you provided a link to these in some thread. With my previous host going down, the link has changed now: http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/lp3full.zip

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2009, 01:13:00 AM »
I know 'Oblivion' from your Cheapo sets, though setting the blockers in the regular way seems very fiddly here. So I kinda bypassed doing it like that. :P

Hmm, I'll need to PM you on that (in the interest of not saying too much about solutions here), since I did the "staircase" setup for namida on that one and so I'm somewhat obligated to help fix any issues related my contribution to that particular level.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2009, 03:11:40 AM »
The level "A magician would be handy" seems too hard for Wimpy.  Maybe early to mid Medi would have suited it better?

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2009, 04:31:01 AM »
There's a couple levels in PSYCHO that I'm confused as to how they'd even be possible, in particular 16, 24, and 30.

If we're going by "legit" passing (not skipping), I'm on Danger 21 (and will likely NEVER pass it because I just never could do this trick very well) and PSYCHO 7 (I kind of don't see it yet, it'll probably be a big d'oh moment when I get it though).

Also I have 93% on Death Row, yea I think I found a backroute. 95% might be possible with a completely different route but I haven't pulled it off yet.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2009, 07:27:10 AM »
@geoo:
PSYCHO 2 & 5 - It's actually quite simple to time 2, but I fully agree with you on 5. Still, it's hard to make that trick work without requiring a good degree of timing.
PSYCHO 6 - Although it's among the easiest PSYCHO levels, I find it very fun as well.
PSYCHO 9 - It's not random at the bottom if you're doing it right, and the time isn't *that* tight. It's well possible to do with over half a minute to spare.
PSYCHO 11 - Probably is one then. =P
PSYCHO 12 - Great work if you did manage fewer.
PSYCHO 15 - Yeah, it is a bit dragged out, but it's hard to make this kind of design without being so.
PSYCHO 16 - It's surprisingly easy to do once you get a feel for the pattern.
PSYCHO 20 - Glad to hear it, this level took so much fine-tuning to get working properly.
PSYCHO 21 - That's the whole plan - imply a fancy solution, then actually use a pretty simple one (that's still kind of tricky, though)
PSYCHO 22 - Not much to say on this one, you pretty much summed it up.
PSYCHO 23 - Haven't watched your replay, but I can guess what you mean, and I know how to fix it.
PSYCHO 24 - You do indeed need to put the blocker in the way. This wasn't the original intention, but when I found out that it happens, I was left with no other possiblity. It still, however, sounds as if you may not have done it how I did, since my solution, the blocker stands under the trap, therefore no lemming should pass under it unaffected; it's simply a matter of traps not affecting blockers.
PSYCHO 26 - cc's PM'd me on this one, I'll get back to you after watching the replay.
PSYCHO 27 - It's meant to be easy... look at all the insane levels around it. =P That being said, I think you need to give the left-exit solution a bit more credit... =P
PSYCHO 28 - I love this level too. There's so many completely different ways to solve it, yet no matter what route you take, it's still a challenge.
PSYCHO 30 - It's actually one of my old levels, believe it or not. Still one of my best creations to date. It was originally designed for WinLemm, I was very surprised when I found it worked in DOS as well, and decided to put it in.


@IS:
Danger 21 - You're given plenty of spare skills, just be careful with the timing of doing the trick altogether.
PSYCHO 7 - This one is one of my favourites, and TBH wouldn't've been out of place closer to the end of PSYCHO. It probably won't be that d'oh at all.
PSYCHO 16 uses a very clever trick (wouldn't call it a glitch though) that I discovered while trying to minimize bashers on Taxing 8. It requires very good timing.
You'll hit yourself when you work out PSYCHO 24 if you're stuck on the end part. Keep in mind that a trap will never affect a blocker if you're stuck with the start.
PSYCHO 30 is just a matter of finding ways to perform the same task with less skills - in the same way PSYCHO 29 is, really, but to a much larger extent.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2009, 07:28:19 AM »
Ok, I'll think about those.

Anyways, here's Medi 11 0 builders challenge. Took a lot longer than I thought it would to pull off.

EDIT: Ok so I thought about it for a while and managed to pass PSYCHO 30. Really nice level. Now I just have to go back and get the rest of them...
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2009, 08:44:17 AM »
Interesting... you also took a right-side solution on that challenge, like geoo did on that level's harder version, whereas I took a left-side solution in both cases...
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Offline Joemon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2009, 07:32:18 PM »
Passwords work well now. I reached Medi. Forgotten what it's called but I'm on the level which has 7 of each skill :)

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 09:46:42 PM »
"Take Us All Home"?

Quote from: A hint
Take the obvious route.
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Offline Joemon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2009, 12:19:01 PM »
"Take Us All Home"?

Quote from: A hint
Take the obvious route.

I passed that. I'm at Ghostly Hall now. Tricky!

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2009, 04:05:23 AM »
Ghostly Hall isn't as bad as you might think. It's more a matter of memory than anything else.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2009, 08:24:19 AM »
Ok finally got a challenge for this:

complete Medi 19 (Force Field): Save 95+%, 3 builders, no diggers, 2 of everything else. I think this is a bit harder than the Danger equivalent but experienced players shouldn't find this too bad.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2009, 09:05:52 AM »
Sorry to disappoint you, but that was easy...

Quote from: Spoilers
...as long as you know the trick to PSYCHO 30.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2009, 09:35:04 AM »
Sorry to disappoint you, but that was easy...

Quote from: Spoilers
...as long as you know the trick to PSYCHO 30.

hmmm, I though there was at least one more trick needed than just that one, maybe not though if it's easy when you know how that. Though that comment suggests that you did it fairly similarly to how I did.

EDIT: yea you skipped the other "challenging" step that I used for my replay. In that case yea that's not terribly hard but I suppose I'd throw it out there for everyone else.  :P

EDIT2: Here's a slightly revised version that forces (I think) the 2nd step that you didn't need to use. It's more a bonus challenge than a real one, since this isn't the same as the level in the pack.

EDIT2b: That doesn't make it much harder at all really, ok one blocker only also.

EDIT3: As a bit of retaliation, here's Medi 22's challenge. 100% saved, too.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2010, 09:05:45 AM »
Any new acheivements? I've finished the skills-you-can't-live-without for Medi.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2010, 11:13:29 AM »
Here's a challenge for someone to match: Save 93% on Danger 1.

Also still waiting for anyone else to acheive 100% on Danger 29.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2010, 08:55:42 AM »
Yet another Danger 29 challenge: Complete the level using only two builders (all other skills are unrestricted). This is probably my hardest challenge so far for this pack.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it should be possible with only one. However, I'm yet to actually test this, can't be bothered right now, so until I do, the challenge (and the record on the first page) stands at 2 builders.

EDIT AGAIN: Danger 29 with 1 builder confirmed. So, the challenge is now to match that. =P

Quote
Some info on my solution (highlight to read)

Minor stuff:

Saved: 70% (21 lemmings), the level requires 66% (20 lemmings)
Time taken: Level ended on a timeout, last saved lemming exited with 5 seconds remaining
Skills used: 9 climbers, 4 floaters, 1 bomber, 10 blockers, 1 builder (obviously), 10 bashers, 10 miners, 10 diggers.


Major stuff:

The release rate was changed at the start then left the same for the entire level.
All three of the blocker-pushing-into-wall glitch, the climbing-through-terrain glitch and the sliding glitch were used. All of those except the sliding glitch were used multiple times.
All but three of the blockers used were freed. One of those three was bombed, the other two remained at the end.


Solution:

Way too complicated to explain. Replay attached.

Because of how close to impossible this seems (especially given the design of the level and that you only have 2 minutes and 10 of each skill), I've attached the replay already. Still, if you're the sort who enjoys these things, try to beat it yourself first!
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/25/10)
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2010, 04:21:02 PM »
Version 4 has been released. This has level updates as well, so even if you're using the data files you'll need to redownload it. For the player, all the latest ccexplore updates are also incorporated.

Levels modified
Mild 20 "25909" - Renamed to "Stairway to Infinity". There are also some changes to the layout, but none of them affect the solution.
Wimpy 15 "Just When You Think You Know!" - There are some changes to the design that may affect some solutions. These are to fix a backroute in the level's repeat.
Wimpy 20 "A Snowplow Would Be Handy" - There are some changes to the design that may affect some solutions. These are to fix a backroute in the level's repeat.
Medi 6 "Fallen" - There are some changes to the layout, but none of them affect the solution.
PSYCHO 8 "Snowed In!" - There are some changes to fix a backroute. They don't affect the intended solution at all.
PSYCHO 23 "Death Row" - There are some changes to fix a backroute. They don't affect the intended solution at all.
PSYCHO 26 "Oblivion" - There are some changes to fix a backroute. These may break some executions of the intended solution, so if you have a replay, please check if it still works.

In addition, the No Salvation levels have now been renamed "No Salvation I", "No Salvation II", etc.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/25/10)
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2010, 10:25:45 AM »
w00t
Just managed to bump up my record on PSYCHO 11 from 96% to 97%.

Anyone else had any new acheivements on this pack? Also, has anyone solved the new, fixed versions of PSYCHO 8 and PSYCHO 23? (The solution to PSYCHO 26 is fairly well known among the older members, for obvious reasons.)
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/25/10)
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2010, 11:20:29 AM »
Also, has anyone solved the new, fixed versions of PSYCHO 8 and PSYCHO 23?

I've just emailed you some solutions......

Offline Frevett

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2010, 06:08:55 PM »
100%-ability List
Danger 16 "Grounded" - 100% is impossible, highest possible is 80%.

85% is possible.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/29/10)
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2010, 11:00:07 AM »
@cc: GODDAMNIT. Yes, all 3 are backroutes. >_>

@Frevett: Replay? Or am I just overlooking something really obvious?
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Offline Frevett

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/29/10)
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2010, 02:28:59 PM »
The 85% solution feels pretty easy compared to the other levels around it, and I can't see what your intended 80% solution is.
Kind of new to this and don't know how to record replays, but it's fairly straightforward to describe:

Quote from: Solution

Make the first 4 lemmings floaters. When the first one hits the ground on the bottom level make him a blocker to turn the other three round.
Make lemming 6 a blocker as soon as he lands from the exit, up the release rate to 99
Make lemmings 2&3 into climbers.
Set lemming 4 bridging as soon as he turns around from the lemming 1 blocker.
Make lemming 2 an exploder while he's climbing up the wall to the right: about when his head is level with the top of the exit.
Lemming 3 climbs into the crevice the explosion made; make him bridge to the left just before he falls back down to the bottom level. When his bridge is half complete, make lemming 6 (the blocker) an exploder.
Explode the other blocker on the bottom level. The two bridges should stop the other lemmings dying of height.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/29/10)
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2010, 08:17:24 PM »
Ah. My solution was to use two seperate bridges from bomber holes, thus splitting the one large fall into three small ones. Didn't even think about building from the ground.


Anyway, as far as backroute fixes go, I'm currently making a few modifications so that the player runs off an oddtable. At the moment, there's simply a duplicate copy of the duplicate levels, which makes any modifications on levels with repeats, such as PSYCHO 8, a pain (on the other hand, levels that don't have repeats such as PSYCHO 23, aren't so much of a problem). The player already supports it fully, and the new DAT files are done, it's just a matter of making up the Oddtable file.

I'm also considering beefing up the difficulty of Coalburner, since I found some slight modifications that give a whole new, and much harder, solution - think it's really fair, though, to make a major change to an existing level? (Keep in mind that the change would result in an entirely different new solution).
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 7/29/10)
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2010, 07:33:10 AM »
Okay. Version 5 uploaded. Changes:

- Behind the scenes change, but the player now uses Oddtable.dat for duplicates, instead of storing two copies of the level. This makes updating a lot easier.
- More backroute fixes on PSYCHO 8 and PSYCHO 23. I'm almost certain they're all gone on PSYCHO 23, although I'm half-expecting more to pop up on 8...
- The difficulty of PSYCHO 9 has been bumped up several degrees. The new solution is completely different to the old one.
- PSYCHO 27 now enforces the left-exit solution, as well as making it slightly harder.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2010, 09:36:22 AM »
check your email again for more possible curses and disappointments on psycho 8 & 23 :evil: :-\ (actually I'm probably going to stop posting this kind of post and just assume you'll check email regularly enough)

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2010, 10:33:12 AM »
Yeah, I get a notification whenever I receive one.

ARGH @ both. >_> I actually have no idea how to completely remove that kind of possibility on PSYCHO 23 without breaking the intended route...

As for PSYCHO 8 though, I could easily remove any possibility of that route, but it would make the intended solution less hidden...

Did you have any luck with the new PSYCHO 9?
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2010, 12:25:25 PM »
Did you have any luck with the new PSYCHO 9?

See email.  I have never actually got around to solving the original version, is the old version really so much easier?  I'd think that the old version requiring a more roundabout route under the steel (I'm guessing) would at least be more interesting to find.

[edit: apparently it was a backroute.  I guess when you're level designer you do tend to overlook the obvious.  (I'm not fully immune in that regard, as have been observed in some of my custom L2 levels.)]

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2010, 01:13:25 PM »
The old version is very easy compared to the intended solution on the new one. However, if you want to try it, download the data files attached to the first post, it's the 9th level in LEVEL012.DAT. I haven't updated those and don't plan to, now that I'm using oddtable to manage the duplicates.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2010, 01:52:21 PM »
Hm. There's still a right-exit solution to PSYCHO 27 after all... but at least it's quite a bit harder than the old one. Still not as hard as the left-exit one though. Grr. And it's probably impossible to remove while still keeping the level's symmetry in the bottom half.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2010, 02:49:16 PM »
Wow. I just managed PSYCHO 20 "No Time To Die" with 26 seconds left on the clock... using only 1 climber and 3 builders, thus a new low for both (previously, the records were 3 climbers and 4 builders, and those weren't done in the same run). Other skills unrestricted.

Still need to try and find minimums for bashers, miners and diggers though.

EDIT: The level can be beaten without any diggers at all.
EDIT 2: Same for miners. So it's 1 climber, 3 builders, and an unknown amount (possibly even zero) for bashers. I do have at least one theory on beating it without bashers, but I've yet to test it. I definately can't see any way to beat it without at least one climber, although 2 builders might be possible (1 is out of the question, you need at least one to slide and one to cover the gap near the top... hm, unless a slide on the right is possible... (edit: which it may be, since you can get low enough to go under the trap))
EDIT 3: Completed with no bashers. Only thing that remains is seeing if two, or even one, builder is possible.

Final edit: 2 builders is possible. 1 is not.

Also, on that note... I managed to improve the time to 36 seconds remaining. Anything beyond this is probably a matter of shaving off small bits rather than a huge refinement.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2010, 12:07:00 PM »
I've just begun work on a sequel pack. It will feature 100 levels, again over 5 difficulty rankings, and this time, no repeats, whether from the original or from other levels in the sequel. However, that doesn't mean there aren't levels based on similar ideas (for example, one of the levels I've made so far has the same basic premise as No Time To Die - 20 lemmings, 100%, RR99, 2 minutes, 9 of each skill, and relies heavily on multitasking, but the solution and design are both very different than NTTD - and in my opinion, it's a LOT harder).

My aim is for the first rank (Cheesy) to be comparable to late Wimpy and Medi, the second (Dodgy) to Danger, the third (Gloomy) to PSYCHO, and the last two (Painful and Ninja), a new standard in difficulty as far as I'm concerned... that's going to be hard work, but a lot of people felt even most of PSYCHO was too easy, so... =P

I'm also trying something a bit different with the music rotation: It has 15 tracks, but rather than rotate the same 15 tracks throughout the whole game, there's instead a different rotation of 3 tracks for each difficulty ranking.

Finally, one change I plan on making - and yes, I am very aware this is going to be controversial, but ultimately it's my pack and I like it this way better - there will be no more timers on bombers. Bombers will explode instantly (they'll still have the "Oh no!"). However, since it exists solely for effect (since I don't make levels that rely on it), use of the nuke will still apply the 5 second countdown.

So far, I've only got 6 levels completed... four for Cheesy, one for Dodgy, and one for Painful.
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Offline Simon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2010, 09:07:42 AM »
Immediate exploders are an interesting simplification of micromanagement, I like the idea. They will not alter the possible solutions in any critical way -- the only new possibility is to explode a lemming less than 5 seconds after spawn.

-- Simon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/1/10)
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2010, 11:32:45 AM »
I've reuploaded the original Lemmings Plus DOS Project with a tweak to reflect this modification, try it out and see how you like it.
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Offline Simon

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/16/10)
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2010, 07:44:00 PM »
Yeah, I like this, feels like the L2 bomber. :)

I noticed it doesn't play the assign sound though while assigning the skill. It's probably a matter of taste whether two sounds should be played at the same time. Maybe play the assign sound on assignment, and delay the ohno sound for 3 or 4 frames? -- In L2, superlemming and jumper didn't play the assign sound either, so any decision on this matter is canonical in some way.

-- Simon

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/16/10)
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2010, 11:36:10 PM »
I noticed it doesn't play the assign sound though while assigning the skill. It's probably a matter of taste whether two sounds should be played at the same time. Maybe play the assign sound on assignment, and delay the ohno sound for 3 or 4 frames?

Remember that you don't always get ohno for exploders--for example, fallers explode immediately upon end of countdown.

Quote
In L2, superlemming and jumper didn't play the assign sound either, so any decision on this matter is canonical in some way.

I think L2 simply doesn't support simultaneous sound effects, unlike L1--I clearly remember cases while playing L2 of an assignment sound effect interrupting ongoing explosion sound effects and the like, for example.  It may depend on the sound setup you use though.

I just tested and found that LemmixPlayer currently has similar handling as L2 in terms of simultaneous sound effects (ie. not supported--later ones preempt earlier ones).  My guess is that the underlying library it is using probably has support for simultaneous sound effects but LemmixPlayer currently isn't configured to use it.  That said, I'm not sure it's really necessary to have the assignment sound effect playing, when you have the more exciting sound effects of ohno and explosions going on at the same time.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/16/10)
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2010, 03:21:39 PM »
Indeed, Lemmix will only play one sound at a time, however, I'm not sure how it decides what overrides. I know that with the default code, it will play the assign sound and not the Oh No, but I modified it to not attempt the assign sound when assigning a bomber.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/16/10)
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2010, 01:48:31 PM »
Oh my god. I just LOVE it when I make a level, and with a few tweaks it turns out far harder than I intended for it to. =)

In this case, all I had to do was up the release rate to 20, and drop the time limit to 3 minutes (the time limit change alone eliminates two backroutes, while still giving about 40 seconds to spare on the intended solution).

Bumped it up from a mid-Cheesy to a early-Gloomy level. =D


Also, to ensure players catch on to this modification to bomber mechanics, I've put a bombers-only level as the 4th level in the lowest difficulty.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 8/16/10)
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2010, 01:10:17 PM »
I finally finished updating all the replays I have for the original, to reflect the new bomber mechanics. =)

<EDIT: To clarify, I'm just meaning the solution replays. I haven't done such for the challenge replays, like the single-builder solution to Pipeline Problem.>
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 11/26/10)
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2010, 09:48:49 AM »
I've really lost interest in making new levels, so I've redone the original LPDOS to include some of the LPD2 levels I had made so far to replace some of the pointless stupid levels (like Ghostly Hall).
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Offline Ron_Stard

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 11/26/10)
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2011, 10:47:53 PM »
The download link on the first post doesn't seem to work. Can anyone upload it again?

(By the way, there is a Lemmini version, or only the Lemmix one?)

Thanks!

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 11/26/10)
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2011, 03:02:01 AM »
I think I have this downloaded and I have an FTP, I can re-up this, give me a bit
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 11/26/10)
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2011, 01:50:43 PM »
Only the Lemmix one. It doesn't require any special setup though.

Here's the download... sorry, I don't have any $ to keep my web host alive at the moment.
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Offline Ron_Stard

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 11/26/10)
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2011, 02:08:33 PM »
Only the Lemmix one. It doesn't require any special setup though.

Here's the download... sorry, I don't have any $ to keep my web host alive at the moment.

¡Thank you very much!. I'm sure it will entertain me a lot.

By the way, I asked about a Lemmini version only because on my older Wine emulator (for Linux, of course), the cursor was strange while playing Lemmix. But now that I have installed the new version of wine on my PC, everything goes perfect =) .

But if all of you grant me permission, I would like to create a Lemmini version of your packed game, and upload it here. What do you think about?

Offline Minim

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Updated 11/26/10)
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2011, 02:28:15 PM »
I think the Lemmini version of the game is possible to be made, but there is a long way to go to get this to work. :P Not only you'd worry about putting all the levels out of their sets and into separate files, but you'd also have to think about password codes for each level (Which luckily, you only need to put one code in as that will generate codes for all the levels in a set). I think the Lemmix level editor comes in handy too, as you can load a level from whichever set and then place it into an .ini file.
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Offline CynicalOkie

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2011, 09:48:44 PM »
Sorry to tread into old waters, but is there ANY way whatsoever to edit the Lemmix Player to play the Amiga MOD music instead of the chintzy MIDIs?

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2011, 11:46:28 PM »
Not sure what you're talking about.  I'm pretty sure LemmixPlayer is already using the Amiga MODs.  I'm not sure about the separate Lemmix editor playtest mode, but I won't really use that for a proper playing experience anyway.

Offline CynicalOkie

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2011, 02:14:29 AM »
Well, the LemmixPlayer that is included with the LPDOS project uses different music files rather than the MODs. It doesn't work if I try to use the regular Lemmix Player in the same directory as the LPP directory.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2011, 09:47:43 AM »
Oh I see, sorry I didn't realize you're talking about LPDOS and that namida changed the music.  I'm afraid there isn't much I can do about that.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2011, 07:19:12 AM »
It could be done, but I'm not sure that I want to. In many cases, I've also placed levels in positions with music I feel fits them...
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Offline CynicalOkie

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2011, 09:01:10 AM »
I'd be willing to do if it if I knew how.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2011, 07:23:56 AM »
It's simply a matter of finding the music file in the EXE and hex replacing it with the original one. Or recompiling it with the original one instead of the custom one.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2013, 08:36:04 AM »
Partly because this pack has been out for AGES now, and partly because someone requested it but I can't PM an attached file,

Here are the replays of my solutions to all the levels. =D
(And you are right in thinking that I decided to be lazy and re-use the same replay for the first 3 No Salvation levels, since the same fairly-simple solution works on all 3. xD)
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Offline mobius

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2013, 02:40:32 AM »
sorry for being dumb but how do you use (save and watch) replays within your LPDOS game?
[shift R didn't work...]
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2013, 06:11:51 AM »
The keyboard shortcuts that I'm aware of (keep in mind I didn't code the Lemmix player; I merely inserted my own levels into it and compiled from source with a couple of modifications):

- Enter: Save state
- Backspace: Load state
- F: Fast forward on/off
- Space: Jump 10 seconds
- U: Save replay
- L: Load replay
- M: Turn music on/off
- N: Advance one frame (You can also do this just by clicking in empty space, but clicking will interrupt a replay, pressing N won't)
- R: Quickly restart the level.

And of course, the usual F1 through F12 shorctus that DOS Lemmings also has.


As far as I'm aware, any keyboard shortcut that works in the Lemmix players (not the editor's test play mode, but the Lemmix clones of Original / ONML) should work in this too.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2013, 04:03:37 AM »
Okay, I extracted the data files from it and I figure, may as well upload them. Feel free to do what you like with them.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kt9avwjwjwsn4jf/lpdosfiles.zip

Contains LEVEL000.dat through LEVEL009.dat as well as ODDTABLE.dat (since LP DOS makes use of Oddtable for repeat levels).

Should be noted that because of this Oddtable-use, not every level is in there. Specifically, where a level has a repeat version, only the repeat version is included. For the No Salvation levels, 3 are included as is, the other two aren't (since the LPDOS Lemmix Player uses Oddtable for them). The removed level "Phase Rotation Syndrome" is in there as well, since while it was removed, it's earlier repeat wasn't.

All levels are the same versions as in the newest version of the player, so it includes the new levels like Russian Rescue and the updated Coalburner.

If anyone's playing them in anything, just keep in mind that these levels are designed for ORIGINAL mechanics, not OhNo/CustLemm. This can make a difference in some levels which are specifically designed with Orig release order in mind (for example, Shooting Star) or levels with falls that have been carefully adjusted (for example, Not Gonna Work or To The End!). No new backroute fixes either, just those already included in version 7. There's also one mechanics change unique to the Lemmix Player - specifically, bombers are instant rather than having a 5 second countdown. No levels rely on this though; it just cuts out the need to time then. (EDIT: Actually, I think I may have set the fall distance in LPDOS even *less* than what it is in Orig, I could be wrong though.)



Something interesting, when I extracted these, I found a few of other people's levels had been compiled into the EXE too. There's no way to actually access them, but the data's in there. I think it's because they were in my Lemmix source code folder back in the day because I always used to compile Lemmix players with like 5 or 6 packs of people's levels, in order to play them... and somehow they ended up in the LPDOS EXE too. But - as I said - you can't actually play them in any way, they're just embedded in the EXE. I recognize some of them as being by Insane Steve, but most of them I have no idea who's they are. Apart from Phase Rotation Syndrome, there doesn't seem to be any of *my* levels hidden in there other than the ones that are actually part of LPDOS.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2013, 09:52:48 AM »
As some of you have probably guessed from my out-of-character-for-me dedication to making the custom graphic set tool, and other posts I've made lately (especially those in level editor-related topics), I'm having another go at making a new entry in the Lemmings Plus series.

I haven't decided on a final name yet, but I'll probably drop the whole "DOS Project" subtitle and return to just "Lemmings Plus" and a number. The question really is what that number should be - the possibilities are:
- 4, since the last numbered entry in the LP series was LP3.
- 5, since it's the 5th entry in the LP series (and thus, retroactively, LPDOS would be considered LP4).
- II, using roman numerals to differentiate the Lemmix-based packs from the Cheapo packs.

At the moment I'm a bit biased towards that last one, but far from made up my mind on it. The first one also has merit, it would somewhat suggest LP DOS to be a bonus pack rather than an actual entry in the LP series. This makes sense somewhat, since you don't see LP2 re-using LP1 levels or LP3 reusing LP1/LP2 levels, but quite a few of the LPDOS levels come from LP1-3 (a few, most notably No Time To Die, also come from the never-completed Cheapo LP4, or some (including the final level! xD) from my WinLemm pack). The last one, likewise, sort of seperates the DOS packs and the Cheapo packs into two seperate series. I'm not so keen on the name LP5 for it, though at the moment I'm using LP5 as a working title of sorts.


As with LPDOS, it will run on a custom-made Lemmix player, with DOS datafiles also available. However, I don't guarantee the levels to be solvable under an actual DOS EXE due to mechanics differences, specifically:
- Instant bombers (just like in LPDOS)
- Miners handle one-way-right areas correctly
- Less fake objects; only those numbered 24 or above will be considered fake
(EDIT: The DOS data files for the levels will not be released, as there are too many mechanics differences and some levels with special mechanics. However, the graphic sets will be made available for anyone to use.)

The graphic sets will be usable with the standard DOS versions of course, it's just possible that the levels of the new project themself may not be solvable other than under the custom-made Lemmix player. Oh yeah that's right - as you probably guessed, for the first time in a Lemmings Plus pack (despite the first 3 being made in Cheapo), this one will use custom graphic sets! So far revealed are the tree and psychedelic sets, there's two more which I've planned but haven't done much work on yet (certianly not enough to have anything to show for it), and I intend to come up with a fifth one for it too.


This pack will contain 100 levels split into 5 difficulty ranks: Nice, Cheeky, Sneaky, Cunning and Genius.

The two levels you've seen previews of in association with my custom graphic set tool (Yours Treely and Fun With Lasers) are indeed part of it - from early-Cheeky and mid-Nice respectively. Here's a couple of screenshots from other levels that I've made so far - one from early-Nice (first level, actually), one from late-Cheeky, and one that I haven't decided on a final position for yet but will probably be late-Cunning or early-Genius. You can probably guess which is which. =P (Note: These may not nessecerially show a correct solution in progress. ;) )

Are there any specific levels from LPDOS that you really liked or didn't like, everyone? I'll try to keep these things in mind when designing levels for LP5. From what I could gather, No Time To Die and To The End! seemed to be pretty widely-enjoyed levels, and on the other end of the spectrum, I get the feeling people weren't exactly too impressed with levels like The Parking Lot, Lightspeed Lemming and Crosswork... What about the V7 changes? Are there other levels that you would've liked to see replaced as well (or perhaps levels that you thought shouldn't've been replaced)? - inb4"Danger 9!!!!!!!" Do you think the new levels are a good improvement? I am aware the placing of some of them wasn't the best - the new Medi 16 is probably too hard for even Danger, let alone Medi, for example.



EDIT: In somewhat unrelated news, I found a copy of the intended V7 replacement level for Danger 2, "Rolling Rampage", but it appears I didn't upload it. I'll do so when I get home. =) It's nothing close to becoming the new big level of LPDOS, but it's still a pretty neat level IMO, far more so than Metal Lands anyway. =P Of course, Metal Lands remains the official Danger 2 - I might reuse the idea of Rolling Rampage for an LP5 level. (EDIT: Confirmed, Rolling Rampage has been remade in a LP5 graphic set for LP5 - which means it is definitely not, and never will be, an official LPDOS level. I'll leave the original version up as a bonus level though.)

EDIT: Meh, kept forgetting. Uploaded it now. Just extract it to your LPDOS folder, then play Medi 3 or Danger 2 to see the new levels.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2013, 03:08:55 AM »
Another new graphics set - Metal!

I quite like the way this set's turned out. I was afraid it was going to look too dull due to the nearly-exclusive use of gray.

The first three levels combined cover all 8 skills (at least with the obvious solutions) - the first one has climbers, floaters and bashers, the second one has blockers, builders and miners, and the third one has bombers and diggers. It is possible to beat the first level without floaters, the second without blockers and the third without diggers - but most importantly, bombers and miners are essential, and the miner will most likely cross through a one-way-right field, in order to point out the mechanics changes with those two skills even to people who don't read the help. =P The level "Fun With Lasers" as shown in the video above (although the video is running under CustLemm, not the Lemmix player, but the level is the same apart from a small terrain glitch fix which, ironically, didn't actually *need* to be fixed becasue it only occurs in CustLemm, not Lemmix), is brought in a bit later on to introduce the one-way fields (which are not in all graphic sets, so far only the psychedelic set has them, but I'm going to add them to the metal set too - I don't plan on adding them to the tree set).

(Specificially: Miners now handle one-way-right areas properly. Bombers are exactly the same as they are in LPDOS.)


Another update: Since this'll run exclusively on Lemmix, I see no need to limit myself to what DOS can handle (again, this applies only to the levels - the graphic sets will be 100% DOS-compatible and you can build your own levels and run them in whatever you like). Therefore, some levels may exceed 80 lemmings - generally if they do so, it'll be 100 lemmings, but just for the awesomeness value, expect one level to have around 200 to 250. =D (Lemmix can actually handle up to 400 without any noticable slowdown, at least on my PC, while if you don't mind the lag it appears it can go all the way up to 65535 - but considering that even at RR99 that'd take over 4 hours to come out of the trapdoor (and make Lemmix lag like hell), I don't plan on making a level with that many!)
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2013, 04:52:03 PM »
First-time poster here, but I've been a huge Lemmings fan since I was young. I have been going to the forums and playing others' levels on Lemmix and Lemmini, and I have to say, Lemmings Plus is one of my favorite sets I have ever played.

When I played it, I felt like I was playing a new Lemmings game. There are so many levels that are excellent and show original solutions. Also, honestly, I'm not as good at solving hard Lemmings levels, so I feel that that this pack has been helping me to develop my thinking skills. I have to list a few favorites from each one, some with explanations. The bolded ones are my top favorites:

Note - I haven't solved all the PSYCHO levels yet, so this isn't a complete list for that difficulty. Also, I know the solution for PSYCHO 11, but it is really hard to execute.

Mild 8 - Wish you had them? - a very good tutorial level that differs from many others because you have to use other skills.
Mild 19 - Go on Up (forgot the title)
Mild 27 - Quarantine!
Mild 30 - You Just Lost the Game!
Wimpy 10 - Labyrinth of Despair - I love the labyrinthine maze and the fact that you can find multiple solutions due to the 30 skills of each (except floaters).
Wimpy 12 - Russian Rescue
Wimpy 15 - Just When You Think You Know! - you make a simple-looking level very tricky with a 99 release rate. I had fun trying to solve this level with 100%.  :D
Wimpy 17 - No Need to Worry! - I'd daresay one of the more original one-lemming-leading-the-way level layouts - a floating box with one-way arrows really makes you think.
Wimpy 21 - One Step at a Time
Wimpy 22 - Fast Enough? - the repeat is original in that it makes you use a skill that people don't normally use under a tight limit.
Wimpy 26 - Savior
Medi 6 - Fallen - this level was one of the levels that helped develop my thinking skills
Medi 8 - Cavern of Chills
Medi 10 - Bob's Problem - for making me employ a multitude of tricks. But who's Bob?
Medi 12 - Step Up! - another level that helped develop my thinking skills.
Medi 16 - The Oddstack (though I agree that it should have been in late Danger.  )
Medi 19 - Force Field
Medi 28 - Way Up High
Danger 5 - Some Kind of Lemming
Danger 6 - Alternative Logic - for having a small trick that you need with a split second to spare.
Danger 10 - Keeping on Track - it was fun finding a way to trap the lemmings with only builders.
Danger 11 - The Warp Room (I would like to observe that this one and Medi 19 both come from your very first LemEdit pack (as Steaver370)!)
Danger 15 - Circular Wavelength
Danger 16 - Grounded!
Danger 19 - Antigravity - I like the challenge of not having builders and needing to turn the lemmings on the right while saving 100% at the same time.
Danger 20 - No Salvation IV - I was able to employ a trick, since the solution is far different from the previous No Salvation levels.
Danger 21 - It's the Latest Craze! - one of my top favorite levels. I love the huge level structure, and the time limit works too.
PSYCHO 4 - Think Outside the Square! - I like how condensed it is in terms of time limit and skills compared to Medi 11
PSYCHO 15 - Where Anything Goes... - for learning another trick to save all the lemmings in an actually limited time. I don't mind the bashing of the long walls.

Wimpy 13, "A Magician Would be Handy," felt out-of-place. I know you stated that you like to put a hard level amongst levels related to their difficulty, but it feels a lot like a Medi level.

I'm not sure if this is true, but with the new bomber mechanic, I find that PSYCHO 10, "What Did You Expect?", becomes a lot easier. I haven't seen your replay to that level yet, though.

I liked the original Medi 8 as well - "Take Us All Home..." . It wasn't that bad for a building level, and there was a slight puzzle to it in that you only get 7 of each skill and you have to save all the lemmings.

As for the new Medi 3 and Danger 2 - "Just a little twist" and "Rolling Rampage," I feel that you should place those levels in your new Lemmings Plus game. Sure, the original Medi 3 and Danger 2 aren't anything special, but I feel that you've changed the pack too much. Those two levels would work better in the new pack.

Another thing I enjoy about the pack is trying to save 100% in levels where I can do so. It provides an excellent challenge for me, especially in Mild 19, Wimpy 15 and Medi 11. I think that the title of Mild 18, "Dying Not Recommended," gets that point across.  :D

I may add more comments to your Lemmings pack, but I give it a overall score of 9/10. I think you did an excellent job.  :thumbsup:

I look forward to your new Lemmings Plus pack, and I'm impressed at your custom graphic sets. Good luck with it!
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2013, 11:13:16 PM »
Awesome!

For Psycho 11, you should be aware that there are at least three different solutions, and at least one of these is not particularly hard to execute. So if you're finding it hard to pull off, maybe try a different approach. =)

I'm surprised at your comments on Danger 21, because personally, I'm not a huge fan of that level (though I do far prefer it to the level that used to be there, Phase Rotation Syndrome).

Psycho 10 still requires three pixel-precise bombers; the only difference is you no longer have to time them too.

I'm not sure if you saw it (though I'd be surprised if not), but there's a list on the first page of what's the highest % possible to save in each level. As far as I'm aware, the hardest level to save 100% that it's still possible on is Psycho 22, but this one requires a glitch (either sliding, or blockers pushing climbers into walls - your choice).

A lot of my favorite levels are similar to yours. Fallen is probably my favorite non-Psycho level, and I love Russian Rescue and Cavern Of Chills too. I felt like a genius when I came up with the idea behind Alternative Logic, even though realistically, it's quite simple.  The ones you've noted aside, two major favorites of mine that didn't make your list are Medi 29 and Danger 29 (Lemmingsense and Pipeline Problem). (EDIT: I did notcie though, that for the former, you do have the level's *easier* version on your list.)

As for your question about Medi 10, "Bob's Mistake", it's actually named after a waterslide. =) Though the title does also somewhat hint at the solution (specifically, having to go the *wrong* way first when you go downwards).

I also felt that No Salvation IV was a big step up from No Salvation III - the jump from 6 skills to 4 actually makes quite a noticable difference. There again, if you think that was bad... I hope you're not expecting to be home free yet, you've still got No Salvation V to go once you get up to it... =P And no, there's no being nice and breaking the usual pattern either... it's the usual 10 less lemmings, 10% extra required, and two less of each skill. =)
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2013, 02:53:27 AM »
Thanks!

I played “With a little twist” and “Rolling Rampage.” For the former, I was able to somewhat employ a trick used in the original Danger 21, “Phase Rotation Syndrome,” except without blockers and with builders. The latter is pretty challenging – it challenged me on when to use my bombers and diggers. I’d say they’re worthy replacements for the former two levels, but I still think they work better for your new Lemmings game as well. Here’s how I did those two levels in the replays I’ve attached.

I found a backroute in Medi 27; replay attached.

Yes, I saw the list of levels and whether each one 100% is possible or not. In Medi 18, I was actually able to get 100%. Here’s the attached replay for that level as well.

I would also like to comment on Danger 25 – I got surprised when I figured out the actual solution. I spent so many times trying to break through that one-way Flagpole/Pen/whatever with limited skills, and my only clue was to use the 100% solution of Wimpy 11, which I never actually figured out. After I did…  :XD:

I will try to figure out the other solution for PSYCHO 11. Thanks for the tip!

Also, I just read your very first post and saw this:
Quote
Also - a random piece of trivia I realised the other day. Danger 11, "The Warp Room", is my oldest surviving level! That level (the exact level as it is in here, not just the general layout/skillset/solution concepts but the EXACT level) even predates Lemmings Plus 1 back in the days of Cheapo. o_O Despite this, I don't think it was ever released as part of a pack until LPDOS, though I did release it at one point as a standalone level. Or it might've been in my WinLemm pack... Anyway, the only other levels that are still around that are anywhere close to being as old are Bullet Lemming (the Cheapo version in LP1, not the LPDOS version of it), Alert Taxis 3092000 (which was remade, albeit almost unrecognizably, as "Die The Death Of The Damned" in LPDOS) and, if it's still out there somewhere, "This Time We Brought 30 More" (a modification of Tame 1 that I made for a level design contest).

Both "The Warp Room" and "This Time We Brought 30 More" can be found in the website Lemming Crazy, the former being in your very first pack with seven other levels.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2013, 03:02:53 AM »
That website's still there?! =O WOW... That would mean LP1-3 should still be easily available too...
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Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2013, 12:47:15 AM »
You probably know, but LPDOS was one of the packs that got me really keen on custom Lemmings and this community. Playing a great level pack that begins from easy and gets progressively harder through dozens and dozens of levels is something that delights me endlessly. Your pack was unique, and I still haven't played through any other large custom level pack that uses DOS mechanics. I remember being disappointed when I read that you were planning to make a sequel pack but you lost your interest in it. Now that you just come up and tell that you're again aiming to create a massive level pack gets me of course enthusiastic big time. I just wish you luck for your project and you can be sure that there are people who are anticipating to see what you'll work out.

Yeah, I remember playing Ji Hoon's Lemmings remake but also one 8-level pack of yours from that Lemmings Crazy site. The pack included The Warp Room, so I immediately recognized that it's made by you. :P LPDOS I've played still two times through, at first the third version and then the seventh version. I think I told you over a year ago that I might give you more of my thoughts of your levels or even write a review of your entire level pack, but it seemed that you weren't interested in Lemmings so much anymore. Now that you are this much active here, I certainly could try to give more feedback about your levels. I might have another go for LPDOS soon, and then I'll finally also try to find challenge solutions, so you probably won't need to fill your LPDOS Challenges thread yourself. :P

I'm probably going to look at your replays for your levels after my third playthrough of LPDOS, nice that those are now available. I also didn't know about the hot keys for loading and saving replays in your Lemmix player, it's neat to know now.

My favourites of your levels... Here are those that I can remember now:
Wimpy: Ready, Aim, Fire!!!
Medi: Fallen, Bob's Mistake, Shooting Star, Eye of the Lemming, Way Up High
Danger: Backdraft, Some Kind Of Lemming, Alternative Logic, With A Quirk Or Two..., The Warp Room, Circular Wavelength, Grounded!, Die the Death of the Damned
PSYCHO: Variety Day, Turn Back With Care, Coalburner, A Perfect Nightmare, Bullet Lemming, Perfectionism (a Danger level in v7), To The End!, Hellfire!
Also ALL the new levels in v7.

I remember that my least favourite levels were Chain Reaction and Overheat. :P
I also recall that your pack contained nice variety in the types of the levels. In addition to clever puzzles there were also simply fun to execute levels, such as The Buildo Station, and levels that needed plain accuracy, like What Did You Expect? and some brute forceish but still puzzling levels with lots of skills, like In the life of a Lemming. I found this diversity really, really enjoyable already back then when I played your pack the first time. So, I'm definitely ok with various kinds of level types!

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2013, 03:05:32 AM »
I'm with you 100% on Chain Reaction, but personally I actually quite like Overheat.

I can see that there's a really strong consensus (that I myself agree with) on some levels, such as Fallen, Eye of the Lemming, Some Kind Of Lemming and Circular Wavelength (those are the levels, outside of the "big" ones in Psycho, that I'm noticing it the most about). I'll have to try and make more levels along those lines - I definitely can see why they're popular, but it takes a stroke of genius at the right time to come up with those kind of levels.

(Although an interesting point - "Some Kind Of Lemming"'s solution was actually strongly based off the original intended solution to "Eye of the Lemming" - I wonder if anyone else felt these levels were somewhat similar?)

Quote
Also ALL the new levels in v7.

How did you feel about the difficulty of those? Especially for Medi 16 and Medi 21?


Also, as per a few people's suggestions, I'm remaking Rolling Rampage in one of the LP5 styles. So it can definitely be considered a 100% non-official part of LPDOS (I'll still leave it available as a bonus level, though), since it'll be an official LP5 level. Short of any strokes of genius of making it into a harder level (which isn't always an essential thing; obviously I need some easier ones too =P), it'll probably end up in mid-Sneaky (3rd difficulty rank).
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2013, 05:43:33 AM »
As my sig suggests, so far 17 levels have been created and (assuming no backroutes pop up; which knowing my level design, they will) finalized. Their positions may be subject to adjustment, but where I currently have them placed, I've got 7 for Nice, 4 for Cheeky, 2 for Sneaky, 2 for Cunning and 2 for Genius. Currently we have 7 levels using the tree style, 4 using the psychedelic style and 6 using the metal style. (Which is somewhat amusing - I had been avoiding the psychedelic style for new levels cause I thought I had been overusing it, turns out that's about as far from the truth as I could get...). Some other random facts is that all the Cheeky levels so far use the Tree style, while all the Sneaky levels so far use the Metal style.

(I do also need to keep in mind that I'm planning to add two more styles to the list, and not create too many levels using only these existing 3...)

I'll probably release a 10-level demo (two from each rank) once I have a couple more levels each for the higher 3 difficulties. At the very least, one of the levels in Cunning is not one that I feel is suitable for a demo.

Rolling Rampage turned out pretty nice. The tree style obviously isn't ideal since it's a rough-edged style and Rolling Rampage was originally made in pillar style which is straight-edged; psychedelic doesn't actually work that well either due to the emphasis on thin platforms/walls. It could've been done, but metal was the clear winner for which style to use here. =P
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #91 on: November 12, 2013, 02:30:56 PM »
Another new style! And another new level for Nice just to test that the style works fine... =P (Indeed, due partly to my habit of doing this, Nice is the only rank that has at least one level of every style, even if you don't include this new style. Although as you probably know, the test level for the tree style was "Yours Treely", which is actually Cheeky 7; but the "test levels" for psychedelic, metal and purple styles are Nice 2, 3 and 5 respectively.)

As you can see, this is another rough-edged style like the tree one. However, this one's even rougher - tree style at least has *some* smooth parts, whereas this style is entirely rough (aside from steel), not to mention even the roughest parts of tree style are generally smoother than this style. So that should keep a fairly decent bit of difference between the two - I don't want the styles to feel like just being clones of each other but with different graphics (this was one thing that I felt was a major problem with L3D especially - the space style was quite unique, but the rest were more or less pallete swaps of each other). Of course, doing this effectively is more dependant on the level design than the styles themself, but I think they still play a big part in it.

I'll probably keep the 5th style secret until the actual release... gotta have SOME surprises. =P I haven't even decided what it'll be, let alone started making it yet, so I even I can't say yet anyway.

I don't have a name for this style yet, at the moment I'm just calling it "Purple". If you have any suggestions, feel free to fire ahead. =P
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Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2013, 03:56:37 PM »
Quote
Also ALL the new levels in v7.

How did you feel about the difficulty of those? Especially for Medi 16 and Medi 21?
I'd recall that Cavern of Chills, Russian Rescue and As It Burns Away... (I used pixel precise skill assignments in this level) were pretty hard for their places and The Oddstack was really hard for its place, yeah it should have been much later in the game. It's The Latest Craze! was too easy for being Danger21, and No Time To Die (Part II) was pretty okay placed. :P (Did I forget any level?)

Btw that purple tileset looks really intriguing and exotic, oh yeah! And I always want to highlight the hilarity of bumpy tilesets, they're far too underrated in my opinion.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2013, 04:23:55 PM »
I didn't think Russian Rescue was too badly placed. It's just a matter of realising to bash with a late lemming, not the first one that gets to the pole. I also felt Cavern of Chills is more or less perfectly placed. I do agree with you about As It Burns Away though. And nope, that's all of them.

By the way, another thing I never really got much feedback either way on: What do you guys think about the LP DOS-style bombers?
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2013, 07:49:42 PM »
Hi namida,
Just wanted to let you know -- since I don't know whether you ever look at the Lix subforum and can't remember whether I've already told you -- I remade two of your levels, "Variety Day" and "Hellfire", for inclusion in the Lix community set.

I don't have much free time at the moment, but I definitely want to play through the LP DOS project properly when I can :P

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project - Downloads (Download link fixed!)
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2013, 01:44:41 AM »
Wasn't aware of that, but (as long as credit's given, which I presume it is) that's fine by me. =)
Aside from Cheapo versions existing of some levels, I also remade Variety Day for the Sega Master System version at one point. Not entirely sure where the level got to, but there's a video on Adam's (I think) youtube channel.

Hm... while I don't plan to do so right now due to working on LPII... I wonder how well To The End could work in SMS version...
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Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #96 on: December 29, 2013, 04:05:38 PM »
So, I went my third playthrough of this level set (two first were in spring-summer 2012, v3 and v7 of LPDOS), and I recorded my solutions now for all 150 levels in v7. Again, I tried to make natural solutions, but in some cases I tried to save as many as possible. :P Challenge/alternative solutions will come later.

Some notes:
Medi 18: Going Under - 100% saved
Medi 27: Take A Dive - 98% saved
Danger 16: Grounded! - 85% saved, one guy achieved this a lot earlier than me, though.
Danger 21: It's the Latest Craze! - 95% saved
Danger 23: Lair of the Fallen Lemming - 98% saved, okay my original solution used the bomber there where I used the miner in this solution. :P
Danger 30: The Hideout - 98% saved
PSYCHO 5: Lightspeed Lemming - 91% saved, this was one of the three Fire levels I had troubles with back then (Danger 22 and PSYCHO 2 being the other ones), this is pretty hard and I remember that when I solved this, I saved an extra lemming by accident with this solution.
PSYCHO 6: The Bulldozer - Now I remember that my original solution used this 'blocker cancelling trigger areas'-glitch.
PSYCHO 13: Go High, Go Low - Steel digging glitch used and saved extra lemmings. I should look for a glitchless solution, too.
PSYCHO 17: Meeting Spot - My original solution used 'climber stuck in the ceiling'-glitch, here's a glitchless solution saving 90%.
PSYCHO 19: The Perfect Nightmare - My original solution used steel digging glitch, here's a glitchless solution.
PSYCHO 24: Gone In A Flash - Steel digging glitch used. I should look for a glitchless solution, too.
PSYCHO 29: No Salvation V - My original solution used 'blocker cancelling trigger areas'-glitch, here's a glitchless solution.
PSYCHO 30: Hellfire! - My solution saves one climber.

I haven't watched the intended solutions, so it'll be easier for me to find other solutions still.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2013, 12:03:36 AM »
I don't think there's any way to beat Psycho 24 without using some definition of glitch - my logic at the time was that placing a blocker under the trap is simply a matter of "traps don't affect blockers, blocker prevents any other lemming from going there" because I didn't know what was happening from a technical point of view. This should be the only level that requires such measures, though (I don't consider direct drop to be a glitch).

I also agree that those three levels are extremely hard (in fact, Danger 22 appears in my list of the 5 hardest LPDOS levels in my opinion, along with To The End, both NTTDs and Medi 16). That being said, once you get used to the exact timings, it's quite easy to beat Danger 22 and Psycho 5, whereas Psycho 2 is just a royal pain in the ass no matter how used to it you are.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #98 on: December 30, 2013, 01:27:17 AM »
Some comments on the replays:

Wimpy 14 - I think this is actually the first time I've ever seen a right-side solution to this level. (Left-side is less work, after all. xD)
Wimpy 27 - The usual solution... but did you know there IS a second way to solve it? Though it still uses all 3 diggers and relies on the same basic idea, just a slightly less obvious positioning.
Wimpy 29 - Nice, I haven't seen that solution before.
Medi 8 - NICE! I've always gone under it then come back up on the other side.
Medi 16 - You solved it with MUCH more time to spare than I did - my solution comes down to the last few seconds. o_O Well done!
Medi 18 - Can't believe I missed that. xD Well done.
Medi 21 - Your solution actually improves a bit on the skills you can't live without challenge (removes a bomber and the builder - and it's possible to use a builder instead of the blocker, and thus remove that too). Nice.
Medi 26 - Another case where previously I've only seen left-side solutions.
Medi 27 - That was pretty clever. xD
Medi 29 - Very clever solution there! It's quite close to the intended one, but yours is a bit more efficient.
Danger 13 - You know you would've saved more lemmings by just using a blocker for crowd control and blowing him up... =P
Danger 14 - That's a pretty original way of solving it. =O Very different from the way I did it, though I definitely wouldn't class this as a backroute, just an alternate solution.
Danger 23 - Not exactly how I intended for this one to be solved, but it works. =P
Danger 30 - That was pretty neatly done.
Psycho 2 - You did this a bit differently to me; your solution looks much easier to time properly.
Psycho 6 - A major case of "ignore the easy solution, go for the hard one"... =P
Psycho 7 - That's slightly differently to how I did it (I didn't trap the lemmings, just delayed them as long as possible), but same basic ideas.
Psycho 9 - o_O WOW, I did not realise there was a small gap between the flames. Wish I'd known that while I was doing the challenges, because that makes a huge difference there...
Psycho 12 - This solution can probably be modified to use less than 16 builders, which'd set a new record for skills you can't live without... and if so, it could then also be modified to use less than 16 floaters (by delaying some with builders instead)...
Psycho 13 - Backroute'd. Or glitch solution'd, really. Still, you set a new % record on this one!
Psycho 17 - Pretty nicely done.
Psycho 19 - This is a backroute, though it's not a new one, I've known about this for a long time.
Psycho 20 - That was a pretty neat solution. I was wondering what the hell you were doing with that builder down the bottom at first. xD
Psycho 23 - Backroute, but there again, this level is infamous for backroutes - there's probably been more backroutes to this level, than there is to the entire rest of LPDOS combined.
Psycho 24 - That was a pretty neat solution.
Psycho 26 - Definitely a backroute. xD I wonder if that solution would work on the *original* (Cheapo) version of this level... probably would tbh.
Psycho 27 - Nicely done.
Psycho 29 - Interesting. You have the same basic ideas as me, but a slightly different way of pulling them off.
Psycho 30 - Same basic idea as the intended solution, but again, quite a different way of pulling it off. Nicely done.
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Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #99 on: December 30, 2013, 11:14:40 PM »
Okay, I recorded some alternate solutions now. Here's how I originally solved Danger 26 (forgot that one earlier), Psycho 19 and Psycho 29 with glitches before this playthrough. No, I never thought about even searching for other solutions for Wimpy 27, but here's two other ones. Then here's some solutions that improve "skills you can't live without" and "minimum skills" challenges, I also noticed that at least my solution for Danger 12 from the previous upload of replays will improve results of these challenges. I realized that my solution for Psycho 9 was very weird also, so now I tried to find a more proper solution, but it still uses steel digging.  :-\

Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2014, 10:33:49 PM »
Wimpy 14: Head East or West? and Medi 26: Overheat - Well, for me it was the most natural to go to the direction where lemmings face right after falling from the hatch. I went for the left-side solutions in both these levels during my second playthrough of this pack, and then again did right-side solutions during my last playthrough.
Wimpy 27: Ready, Aim, Fire!!! - Which one was your second solution for this, or is it even some else solution? :P
Psycho 2: The Parking Lot - Yea at some point I thought that it's intended to take out those falling and ascending frames (by making the ground more flat with the builder and the basher) because of the tight time limit, but now I'm wondering if that's what you aimed with this level. O_o
Psycho 6: The Bulldozer - Never thought about direct drop before you mentioned it in a PM related to LPII. :--D Also, now it's certain that every LPDOS level can be solved without direct drop, but hasn't anybody really found a glitchless solution to Psycho 24: "Gone In A Flash" ever?
Psycho 9: Coalburner - I just tried to squeeze lemmings between those flames and it really needed that sacrifice, it wouldn't otherwise work. Didn't know back then that there could be other solutions now that there's steel preventing the route beneath the level (although my other solution uses steel digging, too).

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2014, 04:46:26 AM »
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm working on an upgraded version of Lemmix (different goals than Eric's upgrades), basically to maintain the original mechanics but fix glitches (and optionally, include the LP style bombers). While I've lost the source code of LPDOS, I've managed to recover the level DAT files as well as ODDTABLE.DAT by extracting them from the EXE. I could possibly create updated versions of LPDOS and LPII to run on this player (since it was easier to do it than not to do it, this version also includes support for LPII gimmicks). Also includes pixel-resolution object map (instead of 4x4) and indestructible steel.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #102 on: May 18, 2014, 04:07:00 PM »
Well, work on creating a NeoLemmix version of LPDOS has officially begun!

Just for reference:
  • Levels will be updated to take advantage of pixel-precise triggers and steel placement, etc. (For example, things like exits that were half-buried in terrain to make them work will be repositioned.) A few symmetrical (or semi-symmetrical) levels will also make use of left-facing exits (for example, Mild 6, Medi 28, Danger 17, etc).
  • Some minor music issues are also fixed.
  • It will NOT have new 32-color versions of the graphic sets, just the same old versions.
  • Levels may have slight difficulty adjustments, nothing major though. (Some examples so far: Wimpy 13 has 10 extra of each skill, a lower save requirement and a higher time limit; Medi 16 has a higher time limit; Danger 24 has only 10 of each skill now (was 20)). This is not intended as a full-blown rebalancing, but simply to slightly ease up on some that are REALLY hard for their position, or add challenge to some that are REALLY too easy - if it's only mildly or even moderately out of place, it won't be adjusted unless the new mechanics require it (for example, don't expect changes to PSYCHO 14).
  • Likewise, levels might have adjustments if a new feature renders something unnessecary (or something extra nessecary). For example, left-facing entrances mean the blocker is no longer needed on PSYCHO 21 so it has been removed; while due to the different entrance order, Medi 10 has an extra floater (even though the conditions under which it's needed happen far less often under the new mechanics; but they still *can* happen, so the extra floater's there just in case).
  • V7 levels, no new secret levels will be added (I had considered the idea of adding some of the removed-in-V7 levels as secret levels but decided against it).
  • Obligatory screenshots are attached. The second one shows why I should NOT have tried to make Medi 11 / PSYCHO 4 look cool in one area that isn't even usually used during the solution... because doing the perfect steel areas was a pain.
  • For the most part, no backroute fixes except those that occur incidentally as a result of the mechanics changes / alignment updates. Though I couldn't resist making another (probably futile) attempt at fixing PSYCHO 23... not that anyone would know since I don't think even a demo was ever released, but it's also more true to the Cheapo version (from the never-completed Lemmings Plus 4) now.
Quote from: *
Medi 16, of course. Although the only change is an extra minute on the time limit.


While doing this, I noticed that the steel blocks in Medi 10 aren't actually steel! I guess we finally know what Bob's mistake was... xD
I haven't tested many levels yet (apart from checking object alignments / steel positioning is working correctly), but as far as the adjusting for new mechanics goes (fixing steel positioning etc), I only have PSYCHO 8 onwards, Danger 17, Danger 21 and the No Salvations left to do. (This is because Danger 21 and the No Salvations are at the end of the data files, and Danger 17 towards the end of Psycho's data, and I'm simply doing them in the order they're in there.)
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #103 on: May 19, 2014, 06:54:41 AM »
Adjustments are complete. Time to test the levels now. Assuming they're fine and no new bugs are found in NeoLemmix, the NeoLemmix version of LPDOS isn't far away. =)

Also: Goes without saying that it'll no longer have the BMP images for the sections; they're now integrated into MAIN.DAT properly. =D


EDIT: Testing has been done as far as Wimpy 30. No levels needed difficulty adjustments, though I initially had messed up the steel areas for Wimpy 13, fixed them now though. Also discovered two new glitches, one each while doing Mild 29 and Wimpy 12, so I'll have to fix them up soon. (EDIT: Wimpy 12 glitch fixed. Still gotta fix the Mild 29 one. I'm just using the levels to refer to where I discovered them; neither glitch is specific to that level (though Mild 29 glitch does require a specific terrain arrangement, but Mild 29 isn't even nearly the only place the right arrangement occurs).

EDIT: Ugh... while the Wimpy 12 glitch was a VERY simple fix, the Mild 29 glitch is a total pain in the ass...

EDIT: I think I got it! But because it related to builder's terrain checks, it's very possible it may interfere with replays I already recorded, so now I'm having to go through all of those. Thank f*** I found it while doing Mild and Wimpy, and not while doing Danger or PSYCHO... though for Mild, the only replay I had to redo was Mild 29 itself. Wimpy is another matter... I expected Wimpy 4 if anything to be the problematic one, but it wasn't; Wimpy 8, 10, 13, 14, 17, 21, 23, 24, 28 and 30 all were though. (13 was lucky though; because it also turned out I had the old version of the level in the data files by mistake! Luckily I did still have a copy of the raw LVL file of the updated one. xD)

Also, another change I'll be making: Mild 22 and Medi 17 won't have blockers anymore. They initially had them because the challenge was meant to be (at least in Medi 17, Mild 22 is just an easy level, but the focus here was still on bombing) bomber placement, not bomber timing. With the instant bombers, blockers are no longer nessecary for this purpose. V7 didn't correct these skillsets, but the NeoLemmix version will. (Medi 5 will NOT be changed.)


EDIT: It would seem we have our first level that's impossible under the new mechanics... Medi 21. At least, the solution I usually use has been rendered impossible, I haven't yet ruled out that another solution may exist. At any rate though, if it DOES exist, it's WAY too hard for its position (heck, the level already was as it is). Initially I added a builder and a miner, but this made it far too easy - but adding *only* a builder seems to be a bit more suited to its position.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project (NeoLemmix version in development!)
« Reply #104 on: May 19, 2014, 03:12:36 PM »
I think PSYCHO so far (only as far as level 5!) has taken me longer to test than the entire first four ranks combined. o_O

Only PSYCHO 4 needed modifications so far (PSYCHO 2 has some anyway though, just to very slightly reduce the difficulty - it was still possible as-is though). I actually thought PSYCHO 5 needed them too, because I couldn't get more than 87% (two lemmings short of the goal). Initially, I upped the climbers and floaters to 12 each, changed it to 80 lemmings (while still requiring 90%, giving an extra lemming spare), and added 10 extra bashers. This made it far too easy, though I noticed that this "easy" solution couldn't be improved beyond 91%, so taking away the two extra climbers and floaters fixed it up - still retaining the 80 lemmings and extra bashers. When I managed to solve the level in this form (which I felt was about the right difficulty), I noticed something - I had managed 91%, and hadn't gone over 30 bashers, which pretty much meant the level in its original form was fine. Indeed, I tried the replay from this on the original and it worked perfectly. =D

Now, PSYCHO 6... this level was by far the most annoying when doing the steel, let's hope it plays well...
EDIT: A fire trap needed to be moved slightly becasue it was now crisping lemmings as they fell from the top-right entrance to the exit, but apart from that, the level had no issues. =) I very much doubt PSYCHO 7 will have any issues, while I'm almost certian PSYCHO 8 will.

EDIT: Amusingly, PSYCHO 8 was mostly not affected. A new backroute popped up due to the mechanics, and it was a very simple fix (to be honest, it might even be possible under the old mechanics, not entirely sure). PSYCHO 9, on the other hand, was the first level to need noticable tweaks to the design. PSYCHO 10, 11 and 12 all had no issues.

EDIT: PSYCHO 26 worked fine without needing modification. Seems to still be as backroute-proof as it was before (ie: not perfectly free of them, it never was, but no new ones have popped up it would seem). Intended solution still works fine. =) I'm VERY happy about this one, considering how much work ccexplore initially put into getting that level to work.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project (NeoLemmix Beta released!)
« Reply #105 on: May 20, 2014, 05:02:54 AM »
Well, here it is! =D This is a beta version at the moment, since I'm not 100% confident that everything that needs to be has been ironed out in the NeoLemmix player, nor am I 100% sure that I caught everything while fixing up the levels. However, it HAS been tested to ensure that every level is possible, and some levels modified to ensure this.

As mentioned, it also has some minor difficulty tweaks. The only level with major changes is PSYCHO 23... I couldn't resist taking one last shot at making that a decent level deserving of its position. I had to deviate it from the original design again, it seems my original plan simply doesn't work outside of Cheapo, but I quite like the result anyway.

Since these are 5-years-old levels we're all well and truly familiar with (new members aside xD), I'm including the replays from Day 1 here.

Just for reference; the player supports gimmicks just like any version of NeoLemmix, even though no LPDOS level actually uses them. Therefore, once I release the lvl files (I'll do that once it seems there's no major issues - partly because I'd have to regenerate them from the level order table and ODDTABLE.DAT, unlike with LPII where they're all neatly arranged by positions), you can also try playing them with gimmicks in effect. And the cheat code (if anyone uses that, I know most people just edit the INI) is the same as it was in V7.

Click here to begin your journey in the new age of Lemmings Plus.

Medi 21, Danger 11, and PSYCHO 4, 15, 16, 21 and 24 have become a bit more interesting, and PSYCHO 23 and 29 (although the former is due to it being the one level I actually *did* make heavy modifications to; but the latter is unmodified apart from improving steel alignment) a lot more. =) Also, while the old solution still works just fine, the included replay for Danger 13 shows off a more obscure solution.

Issues I'm aware of:
  • Mild 21 / Danger 22, one flamethrower has been moved a bit TOO far, while the other one was missed altogether.
  • Medi 15 was modified, but DynaLem has discovered a solution that would work even on the unmodified version and is still simple enough for its position, so the changes will most likely be reverted.
  • Medi 19 / Danger 11, I missed the steel pieces near the exit when doing the alignments. It does not affect the solution at all.
  • Medi 21, the animated part of the exit is not lined up correctly with the static part.
  • Medi 26, I missed the flamethrowers when doing alignments.
  • Engine glitch - It is possible to, by precise positioning and timing, use a builder to stop a miner and turn him around... which may sound normal, except it's possible to do this with the builder being a different lemming than the miner. This is due to a terrain check that normally would only be triggered in the case of steel/oneways not being removed, but instead is triggered by the builder filling in that pixel inbetween the miner removing it and the terrain check (which is only a one frame space, so it needs to be VERY precisely done). I have already fixed this, haven't uploaded a fixed version though. (I'll at least fix the above level problems first too.)
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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project (NeoLemmix Beta released!)
« Reply #106 on: May 22, 2014, 12:55:06 AM »
Okay, here's an update. Fixes the above level problems, and now runs on NeoLemmix v1.01n (the N is at the end of all version numbers, just to differentiate it from the non-NeoLemmix ones; I'm kinda weird like that).

http://www.mediafire.com/download/vj1lxqm1debgd00/LemmingsPlusDOSNeo.zip

Has anyone had a go at PSYCHO 23 in the NeoLemmix versions yet?


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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #107 on: September 25, 2014, 09:42:40 PM »
So, for ages, the level files for this were only available as slightly-unordered DATs combined iwth an Oddtable file to handle the repeats (or, out-of-date versions on the Level Database).

I finally fixed this. Here's proper copies of all the level files - no oddtable nessecary, every level is included, in order. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qrfa50w1umxpmok/LPDOS_LevelFiles.zip?dl=0

As you probably know, these levels are old as hell by now, so you can pretty much do whatever you like with them. :)
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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2014, 05:23:27 AM »
So, many years after V7's release, there's another update for LPDOS that can be considered official. To be honest, it really doesn't matter whether you use V7 or V8 as gameplay mechanics are the same (except for how the pause-for-time glitch is handled); the differences are all cosmetic or relating to fine control.

Basically, the difference is that V8 uses V23 of Lemmix, not 0.8.0.1. The actual content is the same.

You can get it here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7lfl0sdnml0r83e/LPDOS.zip

Either V7 or V8 may be used for challenges, etc.

It also supports music packs. You can use the one from Orig, or wait until I get around to making a proper LPDOS one.


One major advantage over V7 is that the external BMP files are no longer needed; like later LP entries, this has the custom images built directly into its MAIN.DAT file. (The reason V7 and earlier didn't is because at the time, I had no idea how to even do that - I first started experimenting with MAIN.DAT while creating LPII)
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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2014, 09:42:31 AM »
Alright, I put together a music pack for LPDOS based on the Master System musics.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/74dk28dbu6aaa6v/LemmingsPlusDOSProject_Music.dat

(For reference, you can use this with Orig too.)
My Lemmings projects
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #110 on: October 25, 2014, 05:03:36 AM »
It's quite different playing this game with the DOS sounds, but it does go very much in line with the "DOS" part of LPDOS. Also, love all the improved features you've added in the traditional player (password on fail screen, being able to click on the skills when pausing, etc.). Though it does look kind of weird that the joystick/keyboard/mouse picture on the main menu is still there, despite F4 mainly being for dumping levels.

The player has a major issue, however. I am using the regular LPDOS musics for this one, but the player refuses to load some levels; specifically, Mild 22 and Danger 22, as far as I know. I get these errors before the player closes:

Mild 22: Bestand "track_18.it" staat niet in archief.
Danger 22: Bestand "track_21.it" staat niet in archief.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #111 on: October 25, 2014, 10:58:40 AM »
Ah, I know what'll be happening there. Most likely will happen on Wimoy 14 and Medi 15 too.
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #112 on: October 25, 2014, 02:13:03 PM »
Yep, those too.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #113 on: October 26, 2014, 05:16:32 AM »
Fix uploaded. :)
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmings Plus DOS Project
« Reply #114 on: October 26, 2014, 05:37:59 AM »
Thanks!

I'm also using the LPDOS Master System music pack - they sound great with the levels and DOS sounds!  :thumbsup:
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!