Author Topic: Lemmix Level Pack Topic  (Read 56084 times)

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Offline Turrican

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #255 on: April 17, 2014, 09:06:25 pm »
@Nepster: Thanks for your comments !  :thumbsup:

I have tried the second version of the pack , and I have solved the levels 1 , 3 and 5 until now. I have attached the replays of my solutions.

My solution for 5 ( Travelling Lemmings ) is obviously a backroute ( because it contains the use of a glitch ) . That level gives you the impression that you have plenty of builders , but when you try it , you find that the amount of builders is actually pretty tight , so you have to be carefull of how to use them , so you won't run out of them. It is now one of my favorite levels of the pack ( even if I haven't found the intended solution yet )!

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #256 on: April 18, 2014, 09:56:37 am »
Thanks for trying out the new version, Turrican!

Level 1: This is very close to my solution, but still misses one minor point. I will not remove this solution right now. But if I have to modify this level in the future due to serious backroutes, be prepared that exactly this solution might not work anymore.
Level 3: Another backroute. Though this is a pretty open-ended level (I know at least 3 solutions), there is one property I want to enforce, namely
Quote from: Spoilers
You have to use different paths on both sides.
Level 5: Your backroute shouldn't be hard to fix. The amount of builders is indeed pretty tight, but sadly even one more builder allows for several backroutes. Your solution nevertheless gave me some ideas, which might lead to non-glitch backroutes. I will have to do some more playtesting the next days. 

Another comment for Level 8 (Broken Symmetry): Turrican's backroute still works even in V2.

I'm working on revisions of level 3 and 8 right now. So consider skipping these levels for now.

Edit: Finished revisions now and V3 of my level pack is attached.

Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #257 on: April 23, 2014, 10:02:50 pm »
Hi Nepster, here are my solutions for your levels! :) Please note that I played these levels from version 2 of the pack.

Well done with the difficulty curve, I used most time solving the last level and second most time solving level 9, for example. All of the levels were enjoyable, and I liked this fact in some of the levels, that it wasn't enough to know which skills are used in which places, but you also needed to time them correctly! A really stable set of levels throughout the pack, there wasn't a single bad level, though I don't know if my solution for Dirt Runner was too straight-forward. I even find it hard to mention my favourite levels because the quality of all of them was so steady and equal, but maybe both Fire levels? :) Nice job, Nepster!

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #258 on: April 24, 2014, 10:22:03 pm »
Hi Akseli, thanks for your feedback and replays. I'm glad you liked the levels, given that you backrouted several rather badly  ;P.
Level 1: I really should have seen this backroute while watching Turrican's solution :XD:.
Level 2: That is möbius' backroute, which I had hoped to remove with V2.
Level 3: Similar to one of the intended solutions. It still works in V3 and is the first non-backroute saving 96%.
Level 4: Intended solution.
Level 5: Nice solution... but I included this possible approach just to mislead the player. For V3 the solution needs to be modified slightly, but that can be done. Expect that you have to find a completely new solution for V4.
Level 6: As you guessed, another backroute.
Level 7: Different from any of the solutions already known to me and more straight-forward. I don't know yet whether to leave it.
Level 8: That's the backroute, I tried to remove in V2 and again in V3 ... and now I realize, that it is still in there :evil:. I really should have done some more testing.
Level 9: Very close to my solution. Unfortunately you missed the idea that was my starting point to create this level. But given the difficulty already, it is probably better to leave the level as it is.
Level 10: Completely different to my solution, but truly ingenious :thumbsup:. I will probably modify the rightmost one-way wall slightly to make the bomber timing easier.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #259 on: April 27, 2014, 07:48:45 pm »
Round 4 is up for backrouting! I tried to remove the backroutes in levels 1, 2, 5, 6 and 8.
I did change level 7, 9 and 10 as well:
Level 7: I removed Akseli's solution in the current version. Please tell me, whether you prefer the new or the old version. I am still not sure myself, which one I do. Turrican's solution is not affected by the change.
Level 9: I had a closer look at Akseli's solution. He replaced seeing one (more) trick by a much more precise execution (finding the correct RR and using the lemming, he loses, up to his last stroke). I usually try to discourage such precision. Therefore I slightly modified the level, hopefully to enforce a solution that is slightly harder to see, but easier to execute.
Level 10: Now you have about 10 pixels leeway to start the second bomber in Akseli's solution.

I plan to include replays of the intended solutions in V5.

Have fun (again)!

Offline geoo

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #260 on: April 30, 2014, 06:14:21 pm »
I had a look at the latest version of the level pack, and I've solved 5 (well really only 4 so far as I realize, as I'm using CustLemm physics) so far.

Solved:
2: I quite enjoyed this one, it's simplistic and has a nice and elegant solution.
3: Cool combinatorial puzzle that's not convoluted where you have to break the symmetry.
6: I put this aside at first as it was lengthy. Then it seemed simple but I just realized that my solution uses the CustLemm fall height and doesn't work otherwise, so I haven't really solved it yet. Need to think what I can do with the extra builder. Either way I'm glad there are savestates and fast forward, otherwise this level would probably be very annoying.
8: I wonder whether my solution is a backroute, definitely enjoyed it so far though.
9: Not much of a fan of this one, a lot of builders and there seem to be so many ways to arrange them to get up, it's annoying to figure out what's possible and what isn't.

Not solved:
1: Tried it quite a bit, but haven't figured it out yet. Its simplicity is intriguing...
4: I've tried a few things, one I find pretty elegant, but alas, it isn't working yet. But it's really one with a limited set of skills that looks exciting.
5: Haven't really tried that one yet, seems long and daunting.
7: I tried it a bit and I thought I had it, but nope. There seem to be a lot of possibilities.
10: Looks super exciting, have to try it some more, I thought up a few things but I'm one skill short.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #261 on: April 30, 2014, 09:23:04 pm »
Thanks for your feedback, geoo!
The solutions to level 2, 3 and 8 are intended. For level 6 you are almost there and I agree that FF is extremely useful (though it was one of the first levels I ever made in the old times when there was only LemEdit and Custlemm).
Level 9 deserves more detailed comments: Your solutions is rather different to mine and more complicated (though it can be simplified). But I really don't like how you turned the climber by bashing into the steel. I attached an alternative version with less builders, no steel and the "correct" RR (as it seems quite popular to change it like this, unnecessary as it is :P). I would be glad, if you could tell me whether you think this version more fun?
And level 1 turns out to be much more difficult than expected.

Offline geoo

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #262 on: May 01, 2014, 09:17:24 pm »
I solved 1 and 10 now, and adapted to solution to 6 to work with CustLemm (the latter was a really easy adaptation).

10 is really amazing, I love it! 1 turned out to be surprisingly simple, nevertheless it's quite neat with its setup.

Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #263 on: May 01, 2014, 09:44:20 pm »
Okay, here's my solutions for levels 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 and 8 from V4.

My solution for level 5 is not fair, but I included it just that you'd notice that it's possible.
Quote
Oneway-walls cancel steel areas.
I like a bit more this solution for level 7 than my first one, this is harder to spot I think.
The solution I used in level 8 resembles a lot that unique trick I used in one certain level in namida's LPII Bonus pack, so I'm wondering if you got inspiration from there or if this is just a coincidence. : ) A really awesome level still!

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #264 on: May 01, 2014, 11:15:41 pm »
@geoo:
Level 1: intended 
Level 6: You fixed it a little bit different than I did, but that's OK.
Level 10: New solution, but similar in ingenuity and difficulty than Akseli's and mine. So I will gladly accept it. Great work :thumbsup:!
I hope I may include your solution for level 10 in the replays I will attach to V5?

@Akseli:
Level 1: intended
Level 2: Different than my solution and accepted as an alternative way.
Level 5: The problem is not that OWW cancels steal, but that the trigger area of OWW starts slightly above the actual arrows. This leaves a gap of 3 pixels between the OWW and the steal with no restriction to terrain removal. You managed to move the basher into a position, where it checks for such things right in this gap.
Level 6: Backroute. Expect for the next version, that your first basher will stop in the middle.
Level 7: Another great new solution to this level :thumbsup:.
Level 8: As far from the intended solution as probably possible. Though more difficult than the intended solution, I tend to remove it, as I am not a fan of solutions that rely so heavily on pixel-precise execution (and the change I plan will make it possible to beat this level in Lemmini). As for the origin of this level: I got the idea to this level while trying something incredibly stupid for qbeez's challenge to "With a twist of lemming please" (in qbeez1.dat).
I would like to include the replays of your solutions to levels 3 (for the max saved), 7 (the new one) and 10 in V5. May I do so?

@Turrican: I would be interested to include your solution to level 7 as well. OK with that?

Of course I will mention you all for finding the respective solutions.

Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #265 on: May 01, 2014, 11:27:48 pm »
@Akseli:
I would like to include the replays of your solutions to levels 3 (for the max saved), 7 (the new one) and 10 in V5. May I do so?
Yes that's fine, but please notice that my replay won't work anymore for level 3 because you changed that level a bit after V2, so you need to record a new replay for my solution.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #266 on: May 02, 2014, 02:18:53 pm »
I downloaded Nepster's pack, I have to say, I can't even beat the first level... xD I've acheived 98% (without using the bomber or having any stuck blockers), but that's the best I can acheive so far...

EDIT: Alright, I got it! This was actually only a very slight variation on another of my previous solutions - rather than timing the lemmings that come to the blocker, I was trying to cram it all in with lemming 48 as the blocker and lemming 50 freeing him.

EDIT: Got level 2. Though I'm fairly sure this is a backroute, as it gave me 2 blockers and 2 builders left over.

EDIT: Got level 3. This one was actually quite easy IMO, unless I've backrouted it. It might be; my solution only uses one blocker and doesn't use the floaters, and there's no interaction between the two sides.

Offline geoo

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #267 on: May 03, 2014, 10:06:15 am »
4: So this solution all depends on that what I do at the very left is possible, which took me a while to realize. It feels a bit backroute-ish using that though.
5: (Spoilers) Once I realized that I didn't have to bash through the rightmost pillar, this was a lot less fiddly than I thought. I quite enjoyed getting my solution to work afterwards as it was easy to see how many builders you need for each part and I quite enjoyed it.
7: Tried something else and found something with quite a few skills to spare.
9: Ok this was just me being dumb (even on the simplified version I tried quite a lot of things). It seems so easy now. The backward bashing obviously isn't necessary, I just did it for convenience. I think I prefer the simplified version, as the stuff on the right just seems like filler, though then it maybe obscures the main solution a bit (if you're aiming for that).

Now that I've solved each level, I think my favourite is still level 10, that was amazing. (Yeah, feel free to include my solution.)
I quite enjoyed trying to figure level 4, but the solution I found was a bit of a let-down, but I guess it's a backroute.
I generally prefer levels with a limited skillset and fewer builders (like 1-3 and 8 and the aforementioned ones), but especially 5 was still a lot of fun, and I think all of them are great!

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #268 on: May 03, 2014, 11:31:38 am »
@namida: Thanks for your replays. Unfortunately I can't watch your solutions because I always get the error "invalid replay header different mechanics". What mechanics do you use to play the levels? Given what you wrote, it seems that you got intended solutions on levels 1 and 3 and a backroute for level 2 (I can get away with not using blockers, but at least you should have to use all builders).

@geoo:
Level 4: Backrouted, but I have more problems with the very right ;P. But it's probably a good idea to make this possibility on the very left more visible.
Level 5: Another new solution, but quite neat and near enough to the intended ones that I accept it. If I hear nothing contrary from you, I will include a replay of your solution in V5.
Level 7: Essentially one of my solutions, but you traded using the remaining skills for a messier execution.
Level 9: Intended, though you really must hate the climber as he never survives with you ;). I will stick to the simplified version in V5, partly because your first solution showed me backroutes, that will be very hard to fix. The part on the right originally had another function (that you will hopefully see in another level at some time), though it now seems impossible to enforce it in this level.


Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Level Pack Topic
« Reply #269 on: May 03, 2014, 03:08:10 pm »
I use a version of the OhNo player (since those seem to be the mechanics custom levels are designed for) modified to have all 10 styles, combined with LookForLVLFiles. Here:

((EDIT: Removed - see next post.))

If you're using the Lemmix editor, it might possibly work under OhNo mechanics? Although since the Lemmix source I used contains updates by ccexplore, I don't know if even then if it'd be compatible.

I still really need to work out how to make it look at an external DAT file, so we can have a proper Lemmix-based CustLemm...
EDIT: I'm onto something here... actually I have a fully functional replica of how the original CustLemm worked (looked for LEVELPAK.DAT in the same folder, it also looks for custom GROUNDxO/VGAGRx/VGASPECx files but will revert to default ones if they aren't present). Just one more touch I want to make to it...