[DISC] Make 'Replay Mode' a single-mode feature in NeoLemmix CE

[WillLem]

Guigui makes a good point.

Replay Insert mode arrived after the standard mode, when advanced players wanted more out of it.

Thus could be tricky for newcomers, sure. UI is key.

I'll come back to this.

[IchoTolot]

I agree with Guigui here that having everything in a single-mode can be very confusing for newer players and even seasonded ones at times.

As this seems to be a more advanced thing anyway and as dumb as it sounds:

I think having the 'Replay-single-mode' as an optional setting could be the best thing here - maybe as a sub-option to "click air to stop the replay".

Advanced players can choose to activate it.

It won't confuse newer players at first and at later stages when they get more familiar with the program they can choose to opt in.


I would regard the new player issue higher as the advantage to experienced players here.

[Simon]

If insert-by-default is confusing (because it keeps earlier and later assignments, both related and unrelated), the old non-inserting replay mode must be confusing at least half as often (because it keeps earlier assignments, and it ditches future unrelated assignments, which is surprising/annoying in a multithreading level).

I'm beginning to feel that airclick-to-cut is a fundamental design dead-end (= no problems as long as you don't design any further), and all the other design problems follow from having it. But airclick-to-cut is so ingrained that it should remain on by default ... at least until we have much clearer UI about what's going on and how to cut it.

Had I to design this from scratch today, here is what pops into mind:

• Idea: I'd put "Replaying. [Stop here and cut all future]" somewhere big, and something like "next assignment in 0:03" below. Such a glaringly obvious alternative to the airclick is also the fix for saxdude-like confusion (new user exits and restarts NL to stop the replay).
  
• Idea: Along the bottom of the screen, always show the replay as a timeline, like what a video player displays. Assignments are points along the line, and you have a playhead. You can click to navigate, similar to the minimap. (The minimap is becoming more and more obsolete after the zoom bugfix and after possible future RMB-scolling fixes).
  
• Idea: Tweaker always open, which is practically the timeline, but bigger and with all the bells and whistles. But it would take a lot of screen real estate. And it's an expert feature and it looks like one. Not what I'd want to show first-timers.
  
• Idea: Over each lemming who will receive a replay assignment in the next 5 seconds, we paint a large arrow with the skill on it and a countdown. You can click an [X] on that arrow to cut the lemming's future.
  

I'm also beginning to think that namida foresaw these airclick issues, forbade airclick in insert mode, and put the explicit future-cutting hotkey as a replacement.

-- Simon

[namida]

Idea: Over each lemming who will receive a replay assignment in the next 5 seconds, we paint a large arrow with the skill on it and a countdown. You can click an

• on that arrow to cut the lemming's future.

Bonus: This might feel "good enough" that the periodic demands for reintroducing timed bombers finally die out for once and for all.

[WillLem]

I think having the 'Replay-single-mode' as an optional setting could be the best thing here

Agreed: new players and those not fully accustomed to the Replay features need to be able to tailor their experience. We should provide options.

However, adding a 'Single Mode' option would inadvertently create three replay modes: 'Red R', 'Blue R', and the proposed 'Single Mode', all of which must be maintained.

I'd suggest that a simpler solution here would be to abandon the proposed 'Single Mode' as its own thing and instead offer players the option to have 'Red R' or 'Blue R' as their default (they'd still be mutually togglable in-game).

Then, we'd fine-tune the 'Blue R' mode to be more like the proposed 'Single Mode'.

I'm beginning to feel that airclick-to-cut is a fundamental design dead-end

In what way? And, why?

Along the bottom of the screen, always show the replay as a timeline, like what a video player displays.
...
Tweaker always open, which is practically the timeline, but bigger and with all the bells and whistles.

Initial reaction: Hm. This would push NeoLemmix even further into 'Replay Editor' territory (as opposed to 'Video Game' territory) than it already is.

On second thoughts, though, these are good ideas. Perhaps the Replay Editor (currently a list-based Windows dialog) could be ditched in favour of this sort of thing. It shouldn't be displayed by default though, even in Replay mode; let the user call it up via a hotkey/panel button. We need to keep the UI as clear and clutter-free as possible.

In any case, this needs its own topic.

Over each lemming who will receive a replay assignment in the next 5 seconds, we paint a large arrow with the skill on it and a countdown. You can click an [X] on that arrow to cut the lemming's future.

Another good idea, let's put this into its own topic as well though.

This topic is about whether or not we should merge/revise the existing replay modes. UI-related stuff is important, of course, and we can certainly keep small tweaks within the scope of this topic, but more extensive overhauls belong in their own individual topic(s).

This might feel "good enough" that the periodic demands for reintroducing timed bombers finally die out for once and for all.

How so?

And, I doubt that this particular aspect of the game will ever be resolved. As long as we have users who experienced any one of the original Lemmings ports, timed bombers will be a thing that people remember and possibly miss (if they're absent from a particular clone engine). And, the community will always be split between those who like them and those who don't.

SuperLemmix, IMHO, does it best: the engine includes both types of Bomber as separate skills. Level designers can choose which to put in their level, and can even use both side by side, so that the player can decide which ones to use where (and, this can of course be built into the fabric of the level's puzzle).

But, that's also another topic!

[Simon]

In Lix, since version 0.10.12 from June 2023, you can choose to always be in insert mode. (By default, you're only in insert mode when the tweaker is open.)

I configured Lix to always-insert. Then I played Flopsy's yet-unreleased levels (easier ones from SEBLems and Gotta Go Fast) for almost 3 hours on livestream. I got confused at least once, IIRC even a second time. Both times, I didn't have the tweaker open. How exactly did I get confused? I'll have to re-watch the 3-hour vod and tell you in detail. This is the playtest that I promised.

For now, I can't yet fully recommend to make it a single mode. I didn't change the Lix option defauls yet, either. In Lix 0.10.34 from yesterday, the default is still that you're in insert mode if and only if the tweaker is open.

I'll still have more to answer from all your posts.

-- Simon

[WillLem]

Users can now set Insert as the default mode (NLCEPlayer commit 2f55cf7.)

This means that as soon as a replay begins, it will do so in R Insert Mode (if that's the desired default mode) rather than R Standard Mode. The 'Insert Mode' toggle hotkey (O by default) can still switch between the two as usual.

So, we can now tweak Insert Mode to be more like the proposed 'Single Mode' (which we can now consider rejected as a standalone idea), and advanced users can set this as their default mode if they wish to do so.

I believe this solution offers the best of all worlds.

[Simon]

Users can now set Insert as the default mode
advanced users can set this as their default mode

Hmm, defaulting to non-insert mode is in good line with the findings.

Consider to complement this with an option to allow airclick to cut the replay during insert mode. That's what I've missed the most along with starting in insert mode.

You'll essentially have the same 3 independent bool options as Lix has: Start in insert mode? Airclicks cut in regular mode? Airclicks cut in insert mode? This is the least annoying set that I found so far. I don't expect this design to live forever (3 bools is 8 variants), and I really want to do better than this. But it's the best I see for now.

-- Simon