Author Topic: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 7397 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« on: December 03, 2023, 04:26:33 PM »
All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix or Lix Player!

Lix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a3v1xu2gv9roiz1xuleuq/Contest_29_Lix.zip?rlkey=mkkmei2d0z9p8yq78pe4n878n&dl=1

The Lix levels will then be in the single/Contests/Contest_29 folder!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ezp9k9c1qgf6gugna263y/Contest_29_NL.zip?rlkey=gzjuosnkgx87naw1sdlid3nyh&dl=1

Music (NeoLemmix): https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mc6u3npi5mpqb2sq1q9vj/Contest_29_Music.zip?rlkey=xmh4v2iggu5v9ghziy2c2g6nf&dl=1


Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "Tensegrity" (V2)
Eric Derkovits's "Brick or Treat" (V7)
IchoTolot's "The Amazing Lemming Tightrope Act" (V1)
kaywhyn's "A-MAZE-ING Brick House Evacuation" (V6)


Rule 2 Levels

geoo's "Dangerous Goods" (V2)
Armani's "Got a New Toy" (V2)
Eric Derkovits's "Where No Lem Has Gone Before" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Legacy Of The Waffentraeger" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Lemmings vs the Jolly Roger Pirates" (V19)


Rule 3 Levels

geoo's "Origami Master" (V1)
Armani's "Color Coded" (V1)
Eric Derkovits's "Bee Here For You!" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Crossing Confusion Cross" (V2)
kaywhyn's "Fun Teleportation Race in Space" (V4)


You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6521.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 31th of January!
Updates will close on 28th of January!


Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

Link to update topic
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 04:50:18 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2023, 10:53:46 PM »
I played through the Rule 1 submissions. Attached is a replay for Tensegrity, Brick or Treat, and A-MAZE-ing Brick House Evacuation. (I'll come back to level 3)

Notes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2023, 11:24:12 PM »
Solved both of geoo's Lix entries. Replays attached ;) I don't smell any backroutes here!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


@zanzindorf

Thanks for playing my R1 :thumbsup: That is a backroute, as you might had guessed. For V2, I added a barrel to hopefully prevent that cheesy shortcut you took. I don't know if it'll be enough, but let's see!

Thanks for the compliment and feedback! :thumbsup: Also nice to see you getting back into playing some Lemmings/NL! :thumbsup:


Will take a look at the NL entries sometime in the coming days! :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2023, 05:18:05 AM »
@zanzindorf
Thanks a lot for the positive feedbacks! :thumbsup: Yes, I often try to do some interesting things with original lemmings styles. That's aestheticall pleasing in a different way from custom styles imo.
Your solution is unfortunately a slight backroute. This update will hopefully block the pixel-perfect backroute and enforce the solution I have in mind! ;)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2023, 03:01:36 AM »
@kaywhyn, @Armani

Ooo, interesting changes. I will give these levels another try soon.

Attached are my replays for the rule 2 submissions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2023, 05:45:48 AM »
@zanzindorf

Doh! :forehead: That's quite a bad backroute that you found for my R2. I originally didn't have a swimmer hatch, and quite honestly I totally forgot that it's one when I later realized the solution I originally had in mind could be made to work with some changes to the skillset. For V2, I removed some of the wooden staircase terrain. If the level is properly patched up, it's supposed to be one of the harder R2's!

Thanks again for the compliment on the design! If the title alone isn't enough to indicate that it's supposed to be a pirate ship, then most definitely the Jolly Roger flag in the level is the complete giveaway, or at least is supposed to let others know I meant to depict a pirate ship. You seemed to have been able to tell right away that it's supposed to be a pirate ship. Nice! :thumbsup: However, as you can see, the reason why it's very goofy and comical looking is because of my extremely limited or lack of artistic abilities and admittedly I think I did a far better job of making it look like some kind of stick figure drawing :-[ I never was an artist, and still am not. My designs definitely wouldn't be able to top ones like yours, Armani's, and all the other designers on here who are quite talented artistically.

For the music, it's from an online game that I used to play all the time that my sister showed me a long time ago called Gun Bound. It's the music that plays when the game goes into "sudden death" mode, after a set pre-determined amount of moves if neither team has completely eliminated every player from the opposing team first. It's definitely one of my favorite tracks from that game :laugh: Here, I thought it quite fitting considering that there's essentially a "war" going on here with the enemy in my level :laugh:

Thanks again for the replays and showing two of my levels can still be backrouted! :thumbsup: Keep up the good work, you're doing great! :)

Oh, I pre-tested all of Icho's entries, so I can tell you that for Icho's R2 you have the intended solution :thumbsup: For his R1, keep at it. I too struggled a lot with it but in the end found an acceptable alternative to his intended, so you're not alone in struggling with it. I found it quite difficult, mostly due to the very high RR but also there being so many possibilities, most of which don't even work!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 06:05:05 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2023, 09:27:01 AM »
R1's and R2's solved. Replays attached. The one for eric's R2 is for V1, but I have confirmed it still works for V2. Only needed to play two levels each for the rulesets, since I pre-tested all of Icho's and of course I don't need to play my own levels other than for a replay proof of solvability and make sure everything is fine :laugh:

R1 Feedback

Armani's Tensegrity V2 (click to show/hide)

eric's Brick or Treat V2 (click to show/hide)


R2 Feedback

Armani's Got a New Toy V1 (click to show/hide)



Will go through the R3's later, I'm pretty much exhausted mentally completely for the day :sleep:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 07:46:23 PM »
@zanzindorf

Intended solution to my R2! Great job! :thumbsup:
For the lemming spacing thing:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also I might wait a few days until a complete pack update as backroutes and changes seem a bit frequent for now. :)

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2023, 12:29:54 AM »
Intended solution to my R2!

Yay! Good good.

I played through the rule 3 levels. I'm still stuck on level 3, but the others are complete.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2023, 12:09:15 PM »
@zanzindorf

That is indeed a backroute for my R3, and so you have succeeded in backrouting all 3 of my levels :laugh: I think I was aware of that start and somehow thought it wouldn't work because of other stuff players need to do for it, but nope, you showed me otherwise the level can still be cheesed! So, once more I continue to have a history of my levels never being initially 100% backroute proof from the get go when first released :( This is after all the extensive backroute testing I do on my own too!

So, for V2 I modified the steel platform. In addition, I discovered a backroute of my own before I got replays from anyone for the level, but decided to leave it in until I started getting solutions before patching that out too.

If you feel like resolving my levels, that would be awesome, but if not, no worries. There's always Armani and Icho for that :laugh: Also, Also my congratulations on solving all the contest levels except for Icho's R1 and R3. I'm sure you'll get those two in no time, though ;) Indeed, the fact you're struggling with them seems to confirm my feedback assessment I gave to Icho of them both being difficult. During pre-testing, I backrouted R3 several times, but I didn't find any version of it easy at all. It took me quite a while to find those backroutes myself! Now that it's all patched up after a few versions, R3 is probably just as difficult as his R1, possibly even a bit more. So, sorry you're playing quite a patched up R3 thanks to me :-[, but out of his entries his R3 is my favorite one. The solution is just very well-hidden and hence very difficult to see and find.

On the other hand, if the intended solutions to mine are enforced, then I would say that my R2 is probably the hardest one IMO, with R3 maybe being a close second. However, as I've shown time and time again, both Armani and Icho are constantly giving me the feedback that they thought my levels are tricky/difficult even though I myself keep thinking that they're "easy" relatively speaking to all the other entries. Since this has been the case from the very first LDC I participated in almost 3 years ago, I think it's time I drop that notion of thinking my own levels are not that hard then! :laugh:


And I have solved all the R3's, which again there were only two I needed to play. In addition, I have resolved eric's R1. I have attached my entire replay collection, as well as reattach my solutions to geoo's Lix entries, minus replays for Icho's and my levels. I will attach intended solutions to my levels closer to the end of the playing phase :) For Icho's levels, I pre-tested them all as usual, and I advise you to try and solve them on your own first! If you're still stuck, feel free to ask either of us or anyone who has managed to solve them for hints and if still no luck one of us can provide a replay. Same with my levels if you're stuck! ;)

All of these seem good and backroute proof now, but well, I'll wait for confirmation of my solutions from the authors.

@eric

Once again, this is a reminder to be sure to delete your earlier posts except for the most recent one from the update topic! You can reattach the most recent version of your R2 to it if you wish.

For R1, I have a shimmier left, but I'm guessing it's simply a more efficient solution that allowed me to spare a skill and therefore not really a backroute.

For R3, it's way too repetitive for my liking, but at least it's an anything goes kind of level, with plenty of excess skills that doesn't make it frustrating in any way. I can definitely see the striking resemblance of similar design styles with that of WillLem! ;)


@Armani

Color Coded (click to show/hide)


All rightie, as it's still very early, I will wait for a while before recording my videos of the solutions! :) Will most likely be sometime next year, so see you all in 2024 for my playthrough videos of the contest entries in the new year! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2023, 02:23:13 PM »
All the solutions to my r1 and r3 levels are intended. Well done :thumbsup:
I updated the r2 level ;)

Here're my solutions to NL r1 levels ;)
Brick or Treat (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 03:48:26 PM by Armani »
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2023, 02:44:39 PM »
And here're my solutons to NL's r2 and r3 levels as well ;)

Where No Lem Has Gone Before (click to show/hide)
Legacy Of The Waffentraeger (click to show/hide)

Bee Here For You! (click to show/hide)
Crossing Confusion Cross (click to show/hide)
Fun Teleportation Race in Space (click to show/hide)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 923
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2023, 05:07:45 PM »
Updated my Rule 1 (V5)  and Rule 2 (V2) levels

Kaywhyn's and Armani's solutions are both the intended ones for my R2 (V2)

Armani's solution is not the intended one for V4 of R1, so I added another Axeman trap near the walker pickup.

for my R3 level, Any solution that solves the level is ok. It appears I was too generous with the skills, but no changes needed. This level is an anyway type of level.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 05:27:04 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2023, 08:07:21 PM »
@Armani:

R1: Both solutions are fine! Great job!:thumbsup:
The green side solution was the one I intended and the blue side solution was found by kaywhyn during testing.

R2: Also intended! :)

R3: Yeah that's a backroute. I uploaded a V2 and hope that two steel blocks are enough to fix it.

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2023, 09:33:54 PM »
@Armani

Wow, let me say that I appreciate your feedback/compliments! :thumbsup: That always brings a smile to my face, especially as I doubt my own abilities a lot and don't have that much self-confidence or self-esteem. I'm very happy that you continue to enjoy my levels.

R1 - Yea, that's a backroute, as there are some parts that aren't intended, although certainly closer to what I had in mind. For V3, I added some terrain which will hopefully point you more towards my intended solution now :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 - Even though this isn't as glaring as the backroute you showed me on Discord, this is still a pretty bad one that's quite far from my intended solution. For V3, I added OWAs to block off parts of both routes you took, as well as removed some of the wooden staircase terrain.

I'm happy to read from you that you recognized that I meant to depict a pirate ship for R2 :laugh: If it isn't already obvious from the level title, the Jolly Roger flag in the level would most likely be the complete giveaway to that, but even with that it still might not be obvious to the player in any way. The reason why it's very goofy and comical looking is due to my extremely limited to practically non-existent artistic abilities :( I was never an artist to begin with, and I still am not. Here, I admit I looked at Strato's Viking ship from Lemmings Open Air, as well as your Sniper in the Forest level to see how you both managed to make a ship, but as you can see I ended up doing it very differently from either of you :XD:

R3 - 100% intended! Great job! :thumbsup: Here, I got a bit of inspiration from two of Icho's L2 Space Lemmings United levels, one from the Tension rank, another from the War rank :) It's also my very first L2 Space level, and I'm happy you like it :laugh:


As for your solutions to Icho's levels, wow, that is so amazing that your second solution to his R1 is the solution I found during pre-testing. Great minds sure think alike! :laugh: And yes, you're correct in that it immediately reminded me of the United level "Framed with the Best Skills," except this one is far harder due to a much higher RR. It's also NL skills only just like the United level (edit: ah, not quite, all NL except floaters are provided too) :laugh:

For his R3, oops, that was the backroute I feared could work by reducing the lemming count which I wasn't able to make happen. By backrouting it the way you did, now I'm full of guilt that I was a nitpick and told Icho I thought the original amount of shimmiers when the lemming count was 12 was a bit too on the excessive side :-[ However, I don't have any reason to be, as I tried it with the 12-lemming count version and indeed your backroute with a minor adjustment still works for it. In addition, what you did with the lasers was what I came up with in an earlier version of the level in pre-testing, but I couldn't get it to work due to slider problems! :devil:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Like I told zanzindorf, Icho's R3 is my favorite one of his entries this time. You'll love the solution when you find it! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 12:04:49 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2023, 01:32:04 AM »
I replayed kaywhyn's revisions. I'm still stuck on R1, but here's R2 and R3.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)




Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2023, 10:04:34 AM »
@zanzindorf

Many thanks for resolving the most recent versions of my R2 and R3! :thumbsup:

R1 This surprises me a bit, but as mentioned before I'm my own worst critic when it comes to judging the difficulty of my own levels! Actually, I think this is pretty much true for every designer. I'll refrain from giving hints for now, as I generally only give them if the player asks for them. I know you'll get V3 solved, though :)

R2 - Another really bad backroute that I didn't catch :forehead: For V4, the only change here was shifting the pillar in the water down a pixel, but apparently that change is enough! Let's see how it holds up now, though I still very much have my doubts.

R3 - Oh wow, nice find. For V3, I removed the steel blocks and replaced them with some circle terrain.


I have resolves for eric's R1 and Armani's R2.

@eric

Ok, if this is intended then I must say this level really made me rage because of how it needs so much precision in order to avoid zombie infection. It probably isn't though and I simply self-inflicted all that precision and made it far more complicated than it needs to be. I literally exhausted every possibility here, with nothing working except for this solution I finally found after a few hours. Again, if intended, then I hate to say it but I'm not a fan of all that fiddliness and timing. Since I'm not certain about whether it's intended, I've refrained from watching zanzindorf's broken replay for now just in case I need to resolve this one again.

@Armani

R2 looks good now :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2023, 11:35:35 AM »
Resolved eric's R1 V6. This one spares a few skills but it should still be intended/acceptable nevertheless, it's simply a really efficient way to do so to allow one to save skills.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My point still stands about the level needlessly being dragged out with no input needed from the player for a while since nothing can be done while they do a very long shimmier/swimming/walking. There's definitely far more creative uses of those skills. Again, I love the shimmier skill a lot myself, but really long sections of it that don't really have a purpose other than to drag things out isn't one of my favorite uses of it. I do understand it's to all make the timing work out here, but I would love to see and play levels with better and more creative shimmier uses in the future!

Quote
Note: the Intended solution isn't fiddly. Remember I'm still using Zanzindorf's solution, it's just he needs to replay and make small adjustments.

Ok, but try discussing solutions here instead. It is the discussion topic after all :P Yes, I'm well aware that zanzindorf's is the new intended solution, but I didn't watch it before resolving this version, therefore I had no way of knowing if the solution is supposed to be messy and fiddly. Indeed, now that I have solved it it's not, but there's still some difficult timing needed, just not to the extreme extent I made a mess out of in V5
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 01:18:07 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 923
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2023, 04:54:06 PM »
added a Bronze Talisman

@Kaywhyn

Ok, this solution is acceptable. good job

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 05:39:32 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1482
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2023, 03:39:05 AM »
Solved both of geoo's Lix entries. Replays attached ;) I don't smell any backroutes here!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Both solutions are intended, though you made your life much harder on the second one (as long as you place the second blocker well, execution should have a decent amount of leeway):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dangerous Goods should also work with the normal bomber, haven't tested though. If certain kinds of backroutes crop up I might change it.

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2023, 04:57:49 AM »
I replayed some more revisions. Brick or Treat and Where No Lem Has Gone Before are solved as indented, I think. Both very nice levels 8-)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2023, 05:29:46 AM »
Both solutions are intended, though you made your life much harder on the second one

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2023, 08:24:00 AM »
@zanzindorf

Thanks once again for resolving the most recent versions of my R2 and R3 :thumbsup: Indeed both are still backroutes :( I should had known better than to underestimate you lol.

R2 - For V5 the only change was that I replaced the pillar in the water with a different terrain piece. Once again, I'm not confident this change is enough, but well, let's see.

R3 - For V4, I restored the platform near the entrance to V2's version, shifted the steel blocks over, and added a piece of terrain. I think as a result of these changes the solution will probably be a bit more obvious now, but well, sometimes that's the way it is. Even when I thought the solution is more obvious, I still been told otherwise by Armani and Icho! I haven't verified it, but I'm sure Armani's replay should still be fine and if not, then he just needs to make a really minor adjustment.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've replayed geoo's R3 by doing what he described in the first part of the spoiler to make the solution easier than the one I found, but honestly I still find it pretty precise and not that much better. Replay attached. Needless to say, I'm definitely very curious about geoo's replay for it lol. So really, @zanzindorf I don't think you can deviate too much from my first replay with the placements of the skills, otherwise you won't make it as you keep on seeing lol :(

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline zanzindorf

  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Zanzindorf.com
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2023, 03:18:19 PM »
I replayed Jolly Roger with the new terrain piece. I feel like I'm getting closer to the intended solution, but it's still definitely a back route. I have three variations of essentially the same path, just using different skills.

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2023, 09:44:54 PM »
@zanzindorf

Yea, each of the solutions for R2 have you going through the ship where I don't want them to. Now I remember that's why I didn't want to make the entrance a swimmer hatch, but because of the 10 max skill types limit the intended solution I have in mind wouldn't work :( For V6, I extended the OWAs. This change should force you to find a different way for the crowd to take ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2023, 10:03:48 PM »
The pack has been updated. :)

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 923
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2023, 01:05:33 AM »
@Zanzindorf

Both your solutions to my R1 and R2 are indeed intended.

Of course I added a Bronze Talisman for Kaywhyn's 2 skill saving but your solution is exactly the solution I wanted
without the Talisman.

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2023, 09:09:17 AM »
@geoo
solved lix entries!
Took me several attemps to save enough lixes on Origami Master.
I love Dangerous Goods. It was an excellent puzzle :thumbsup:

@kaywhyn
That's intended :thumbsup:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2023, 09:52:15 AM »
And I played through updated NL levels 8-)

Brick or Treat
A-MAZE-ING Brick House Evacuation
Lemmings vs the Jolly Roger Pirates
Crossing Confusion Cross
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2023, 03:46:08 PM »
@Armani

Intended solution! Great job! :thumbsup:


Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2023, 03:12:01 PM »
I plan to play through the levels after I am back from my hometown where I stay over Christmas.

It seems the worst backroutes are patched now. ;)

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2023, 05:20:05 AM »
For those who want to see the intended solutions to my levels, here it is :D

youtube link
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2023, 08:51:36 PM »
@Armani

Sorry for the huge delay in getting back to your solutions on my updated levels. I needed that break from fixing my own levels again so as to not stress myself out. Not to mention that I've been quite busy with recording my LPs ;)

R1 - It's not the intended route as you might have guessed, but I call this an acceptable solution. Your solution is kind of more efficient than my intended one in some ways, and so far the skills you had leftover I don't see them really breaking the level in any way. So, unless severe backroutes start showing up with the leftover skills or possibly even one of the skills you used, your solution is fine for now, and I'm not going to be super picky about completely enforcing my intended solution. I do see at least see the main tricks I want in your solution. Plus a fix might do more harm than good. I've attached my solution for you to compare :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 - Yea, this one still needs some more work. I've changed some of the up OWAs to left and right ones, as well as added more of each of the latter ones at the top. Definitely the major source of all the backroutes I've seen thus far are at that part of the ship at the bottom left where the rope trap is.


I plan to play through the levels after I am back from my hometown where I stay over Christmas.

It seems the worst backroutes are patched now. ;)

Have a wonderful holiday! :)

Not quite, just my R2 left needs some work, which hopefully will do with this version that I just released, but let's see! :laugh:
« Last Edit: December 27, 2023, 08:59:52 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3950
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2023, 10:05:41 PM »
I haven't submitted levels for Contest 29, but I'd still like to try all your entries. I'll play the 12 NeoLemmix entries when I'm back at my main desktop with the huge screen.

Attached is a wurschtelei for geoo's Dangerous Goods and a functional pipeline for geoo's Origami Master.

-- Simon

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2024, 07:47:58 PM »
Here are my solutions to both the NL and Lix levels. :)

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2024, 09:00:58 AM »
@IchoTolot
Everything is intended. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2024, 10:31:16 AM »
@Icho

Finally got around to watching your replays to my levels and here is my assessment.

R1 - I originally called this an acceptable solution, but then I just realized a fix that I never thought of that could probably enforce my solution a little better. I feel bad because I called Armani's solution acceptable from a while back, and you pretty much did the same as him, only more efficiently because you managed to save an extra skill on top of the same two he did. For V4, I simply added a water pit at the top and two steel blocks. This kind of reminds me of your slider level from several contests ago where one of my solutions was originally acceptable but then you later found a way to enforce your intended way better :) It's kind of the same here, only I realized a way for my level much later :XD:

R2 - Yea, that's still a backroute. The only change here for V8 is I extended the OWAs on the wooden pillars. This probably makes the solution too obvious now, but what do I know? Given my feedback history from both you and Armani telling me that my levels are still tricky and difficult regardless of the fixes/changes :P

R3 - 100% intended! Great job :thumbsup: As I mentioned to Armani, I got inspiration from two space levels of yours from United, one from the Tension rank, the other in the War rank :) It's also my very first L2 Space level, and I hope you liked it! ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 01:50:32 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2024, 09:45:41 PM »
All rightie, I finally found some time to record videos of my solutions to the contest entries except for my own, which I will cover at a later time, after I get intended/acceptable solutions to all of them :)

Video links:

Part 1 (Lix Entries) - https://youtu.be/0c8e7APytNg

Part 2 (NL Rule 1) - https://youtu.be/DAumj1ehUpE

Part 3 (NL Rule 2) - https://youtu.be/57WenqpLlZA

Part 4 (NL Rule 3) - https://youtu.be/gjx8Zccw4mU
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2024, 05:18:09 PM »
Got new solutions. :)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2024, 09:07:28 PM »
@Icho

R1 - Your solution is about 98-99% intended, and one of your earlier solutions did contain an element that I wanted which isn't present here. For V5, I simply added more terrain near the middle exit area. You'll be able to resolve this new version very easily :) TBH, yes I know I could had easily blocked off what you did at the very end with OWAs or steel, but this ended up taking me a while to come up with a suitable fix while not making the level look too peculiar in that area :laugh: Yea, strange but true, backroute fixing sometimes takes me far longer than it should :XD: That's why it stresses me out more than it should.

R2 - Still a very bad backroute. It's the fact the hatch is a pre-assigned swimmer one, but due to my intended solution using the max of 10 skill types that's why it is what it is :forehead: For V9, I changed up the wooden staircase terrain in the middle left area and in turn removed a platformer and a builder. The solution has changed up quite a lot already and I knew this level was going to be very problematic to backroute fix anyway due to how very complicated the solution is. I should had kept it simpler like yours and Armani's for both of your R2's :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2024, 06:05:43 AM »
resolved the most recent versions of the levels 8-)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2024, 12:28:50 PM »
@Armani

R1 - Ah, nice find. For V6, another steel block added and now this should finally be it, so both you and Icho should be able to resolve this one very easily ;)

R2 - Ack, curse that pre-assigned swimmer hatch! For V10, added another needles trap. Something tells me that it won't cover all the problem spots, but well, this level has proven to be very problematic to patch!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2024, 01:39:46 PM »
Here're some new solutions.
r1 level shoud be good now 8-)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2024, 05:14:27 PM »
I also got new solutions. :)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2024, 08:11:46 PM »
@Armani, @Icho

R1 - Both of your solutions are 100% intended. Nice job! :thumbsup: Not sure why I didn't think about those fixes sooner, especially that quicksand addition. I find it very interesting that Armani pretty much did the exact same thing I did in the first several seconds of the level, though that might had been because I leaked and attached my intended solution for him to compare when I called his solution acceptable several posts above :-[ Anyway, hope you gentlemen liked it and that the timing with the climbers isn't too tight! I really tried to ease that part and made it as forgiving as much as I could! :laugh:

R2 - Ah, you gentlemen play hard! :evil: All right, I really could had avoided all that trouble from the very start by simply adding more OWAs in the area that keeps getting abused all because of the preassigned swimmer hatch, but I really thought I could get away with not needing to do so :forehead: Looks like I'm out of options now, and I was thinking of resorting to pickups, but let's try this first before I might need to. For V11, just more OWAs and also shifted the ones near the entrance up some more and also extended them.

edit: I noticed the R2 got 3 downloads, but I have reattached it as apparently the ones near the entrance needed to be extended too. That's what I get for thinking moving them upwards would be enough and not actually testing it to see if it blocks off Armani's really cheesy backroute :forehead:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2024, 08:27:40 PM »
Hm, I think it would be best to focus getting rid of a skill slot and cull the swimmer hatch - or make a 2nd hatch and limit the swimmer hatch to 1 lem (even though that fix is a bit dirtier).

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2024, 05:27:18 AM »
Hm, I think it would be best to focus getting rid of a skill slot and cull the swimmer hatch - or make a 2nd hatch and limit the swimmer hatch to 1 lem (even though that fix is a bit dirtier).

Doh, of course! Why didn't I think of it before? Instead of a swimmer hatch, I could have preplaced Lemmings with the swimmer ability! I haven't used preplaced Lemmings since the very first LDC I participated in, LDC #22, with your R2 of just NL skills and no classical features, and so you can tell that I'm not used to them at all, particularly since I've been more careful with my more recent levels with not using pickups as fixes! Apparently I didn't learn all there is to take away from playing your United pack :XD: So, thanks for the reminder! ;)

You're close, though. My intended route requires two swimmers, not one :P

So, for V12 a bit of an overhaul:

- Entrance is no longer a swimmer hatch and instead there are now two preplaced Lemmings that are swimmers.

- Changed up the wooden staircase near the entrance, as I discovered shortly after uploading V11 that Armani's cheesy backroute still works with a minor adjustment.

- More steel added to prevent getting under the trap, which is another major source of backroutes

Again, not confident that these changes will be enough, and it might not be possible to enforce my solution completely. If it turns out to be so, then I will accept some variants here that I would consider close enough. Not yet, though ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2024, 08:47:19 AM »
Here's my new solution 8-)
I normally see a glimpse of how the intended solution looks even when I backroute a level, but not this one.
It felt like I have too many powerful skills.
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2024, 10:48:44 AM »
Here's my new solution 8-)
I normally see a glimpse of how the intended solution looks even when I backroute a level, but not this one.
It felt like I have too many powerful skills.

Well, it doesn't help that my intended solution is complicated too, and the harder the solution, the better the chances of backroutes. But yea, I think, in addition, we know from experience that the more skills we provide, the more likely backroutes will come up :( I really should had came up with an easier solution for this level like both you and Icho have for your R2's :laugh:

Anyway, for V13, some big changes: shifted the rope net 3 pixels to the right so that you need to find some other way to deal with the lone zombie, changed some OWAs to downward ones on the wooden pillars, as well as changed the left to right pointing ones on the left wooden pillar, and finally shifted some terrain underneath and around the entrance 2 pixels down. Even if this doesn't exactly get us there to the intended route, I would think it at least could get us pretty close, but hey, I've been proven wrong so many times :evil: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2024, 08:50:58 AM »
This looks better!
I have a gut feeling that I somehow need to get rid of the lone zombie at the top, but I couldn't found an efficient way to do so...
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2024, 12:49:21 PM »
@Armani

Not quite there yet, but we're definitely much closer towards what I intended. After a really long brainstorming session tonight, there's one particular area that I couldn't think of a way to stop some unintended stuff, so depending on how bad solutions I get are, I either have probably reached my limit in fixing the level up or I might just try 1 or 2 more versions after this one before calling them acceptable. I did think of some drastic skillset changes and I thought I was onto something, but sadly one of the skill types that I took away at least one of it is needed, it seems :(

For V14, more OWAs and flipped the right ones at the top to left ones. I'm pretty certain the level can still be cheesed in the same places as in your solution, but well, my head hurts right now and I'll just see where to go from here with the new solutions I get. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2024, 06:37:53 AM »
Disregard the changes for V14 for my R2 in the above post,, as I have now uploaded a V15 which features another really big overhaul/reworking of the level after some deep thinking. In particular, I was successful in getting rid of two skill slots and replace them with two different types! :thumbsup:

- Skillset changes: No walkers and blockers now and instead +4 jumpers, +1 platformer, +1 basher, +1 stacker, +2 swimmers, and -1 miner

- Along with the above, -1 preplaced Lemming and the lone preplaced Lemming is now just a regular one.

- Entrance is now a right-facing one

- Added another rope terrain and removed some OWAs

- Modified the wooden staircase near the entrance and shifted the taller pillar several pixels to the left

Again, even if this doesn't get the intended solution exactly, I would like to think we are at least much closer to it than ever before, but I should wait and get solutions first!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 06:53:30 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2024, 04:59:34 PM »
This seems still like a backroute. :evil:

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2024, 07:00:00 PM »
I knew I should had kept those down OWAs in :forehead: Not to mention that you told me a long time ago that reverting a change could quite possibly open up the same backroutes again! :evil: Well, for V16 back in they go, and in addition the preplaced Lemming has also been moved :P 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2024, 03:18:06 PM »
Maybe a bit better ???

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2024, 06:10:32 PM »
Updated the replay for geoo's entry.

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2024, 09:46:05 PM »
Maybe a bit better ???

Nah, not too much better at all :( One last thing I want to try before I might possibly resort to pickups for V18, if needed. For V17, the right OWAs were removed and instead the down OWAs on the wooden pillars were extended to where they used to be. Because of this change I'm thinking the solution is way too obvious now, but well, sometimes that's the way it goes with very broken levels that can't really be patched up easily. Also, I've been proven wrong on this last point many times!

I also have an updated replay for geoo's R2 but it's pretty much the same as the previous solution, just my Lix was much further from the point of the bomber assignment and therefore wouldn't get flung whether or not it's a bomb flinger skill like in the previous version.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

  • Posts: 577
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2024, 09:45:20 AM »
more solutions 8-)

Regarding the second solution: If you are going to block this by making the exit area higher(or the starting platform lower), keep in mind that I have an unused stacker so I can go even higher.
The first solution uses most of the skills but still doesn't use the second swimmer though.
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2024, 12:08:28 AM »
more solutions 8-)

Regarding the second solution: If you are going to block this by making the exit area higher(or the starting platform lower), keep in mind that I have an unused stacker so I can go even higher.
The first solution uses most of the skills but still doesn't use the second swimmer though.

Thanks for the analysis! :thumbsup: For V18, more spike traps and extended the arrows on the pillar near the entrance. I'm somewhat hopeful that this is finally it, but I think either you or Icho will still prove me wrong :XD:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2024, 06:44:35 PM »
New solution! :)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2024, 10:00:41 PM »
@Icho

Yea, you see? I knew one of you would prove me wrong :( Well, I think I'm out of options now, and so as much as I hate to, for V19 the diggers, jumpers, and miner are now pickups, and in addition the pillar near the exit is now much taller. I'm sure I could still get away with less or no pickups, but at this point I'm not taking any chances. It's pretty much the start that's mostly been wrong now, but maybe this change will now force the correct approach. This level's already been through a lot of backroute hell, and even with a major reworking/overhaul it still proves to be very problematic, though maybe not to the extreme degree like before
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2024, 12:26:29 PM »
As the update phase as closed now, I hope I am at least a bit closer now.

Anyway, I will record my solutions up in the following days then. :)

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2024, 12:58:58 PM »
@Icho

Yea, it's not intended, but surprisingly it's quite close to what I had in mind such that your solution I deem close enough to be acceptable anyway ;) I've attached my solution so you can compare :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Over the last few days, I was playing with my level in my head and kept running into situations where the player can do things differently and hence I have come to the conclusion that it's not really possible to completely enforce my intended solution. Indeed, I could even make your solution the new intended one by releasing one final update and cull all those extra skills, but hey, I at least didn't completely despair and went down fighting for as long as I could to eliminate as much of the glaring backroutes as was possible :laugh: It was bound to be one of those unpatchable levels anyway, given how very complicated I made the solution to my R2.

Anyway, thanks for all the resolves and I hope it wasn't too annoying with the constant updates ;) I'm sorry if it was.

Anyway, I will record my solutions up in the following days then. :)

Great, looking forward to them! :thumbsup: I felt bad that I was responsible for the delay in you getting your videos recorded :(
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3647
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2024, 08:05:28 PM »
Alright here are my videos and attached are my up-to-date replays again. :)

Part 1 (Lix): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h1D7xsy6SU
Part 2 (NL): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k0z76NAhpg
Part 3 (My own entries): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cN70EezZ10

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
Re: Level Design Contest #29 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2024, 08:59:00 PM »
And finally the video covering my levels and showing off my intended solutions:

Part 5 (my levels) - https://youtu.be/1WnMiPnCULQ

Also I've reattached my replays and the intended solutions to my levels :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0