Author Topic: LemmixAmiga. WIP.  (Read 7351 times)

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Zaphod77

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2014, 05:54:36 PM »
Good point.  You can either do real panning, or the amiga version. real panning would be full left speaker for offscreen to the left, and full right only for offscreen to the right, and somewhere inbetween for on the screen depending on position.

Amiga panning is always all left or all right, with no duplication, and no panning when music is on (it's always on the side that has the free channel)

And yeah.  Here are the various channel systems.

DOS with music. 3 channels, with channels freeing up a half second after they are used.
DOS without music. 6 channels instead
Amiga with music. 1 channel as described above
Amiga without music. 2 channels. one left speaker and one right, as described above. MIGHT actually be four, two per speaker, but it's hard to test.

If we want to improve on the originals.

Idealised Amiga. 2 channels with full panning, no check for free channels.  Note that amiga only plays oh no once for starting nuked instead of ohnoing for every nuked lemming, and that exploding is a very quick sound effect.
Idealised DOS. 6 channels, with full panning for all. It's the Oh, No! chorus. :)

Offline Zaphod77

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2021, 09:02:34 PM »
Yes it's me. i finally wandered back.

that said not sure if i still have that source anymore.

Would be nice to resume this.

So there's neo lemmix, old lemmix, and the original lemix author getting back into making it?

So, anyone have a complete list of amiga version vs dos differences?  they say that basher physics are different. Is it really just the different destruction mask, or is there some other change?

I know a number of DOS glitches aren't present.

Offline namida

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2021, 09:09:15 PM »
Quote
So there's neo lemmix, old lemmix, and the original lemix author getting back into making it?

NeoLemmix should be treated as its own seperate thing. It does not try to replicate any official Lemmings game. It has "Lemmix" in the name because the Lemmix source code was used as the basis for it.

Regarding "old" or "vanilla" Lemmix vs the new Lemmix from EricLang - the new one has a lot more nice UI features, but also seems (/ seemed? Maybe this isn't the case anymore?) to be drifting away from the "replicate DOS exactly" goal, eg. no nuke glitch, certain glitches delegated to options, etc. The newer one is likely nicer overall if you just want to play the original games fairly accurately and don't care about it being perfect, but at this point only the old one is considered acceptable for challenges.

Offline WillLem

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2021, 11:05:33 PM »
Yes it's me. i finally wandered back.
...
Would be nice to resume this.

What's your opinion of Lemmini/SuperLemmini? This is essentially a Lemmings clone very closely modelled on the Amiga version, but with some graphical updates and quality-of-life features absent from the original.

An Amiga clone similar to Lemmix's recreation of the DOS version would be great, I'd heartily support such a project and would be prepared to help with graphics/audio stuff where needed. However, like most clones, it would likely end up benefitting from more modern features that the community have gotten used to (like replays, fast-forward, framestepping, direction select, etc) and which the Amiga version didn't have. Otherwise, how is it any different from simply playing Lemmings on an emulator?

The bottom line here, though, is that if your goal is to make the Amiga equivalent of what Lemmix is to DOS, then I say go for it! And, I'll help wherever I can.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2021, 06:47:42 AM »
Amiga emulation is definitely a bit clunky to set up (I wouldn't say it's hard, but I am saying it's annoying), so I can't say there's no benefit to making a recreation of it (even if it doesn't have the modern QoL features, though it would be unwise not to include them, imo), though there is of course the question of whether or not it's worth the effort.

If you're going to do this, and you want to play it safe with the physics differences, it would probably be wise not to assume anything matches DOS until you have evidence demonstrating it matches. Otherwise, it could be quite easy for a lot of the physics differences to slip through the cracks.

Offline WillLem

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2021, 10:33:33 AM »
@Zaphod77 - I have recently completed a speedrun of L1 on Amiga, so my knowledge of the mechanics/physics is quite intimate. Happy to answer any questions you may have.

Amiga emulation is definitely a bit clunky to set up (I wouldn't say it's hard, but I am saying it's annoying)

Try Amiga Forever. It's relatively inexpensive and it's made by Cloanto, the same company that developed the original Amiga software, so it's about as official as emulation gets. It's by no means perfect, but it makes it very easy to get set up.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 10:41:24 AM by WillLem »

Offline Zaphod77

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2021, 07:40:44 PM »
How do i work on this again? i remember having a heck of a time getting what i needed to actually compile this stuff.

I probably need to start all over.

Here's what i remember.

1) basher mask needed changing. (i had done this)
2) digger hold up behavior is different. (I had worked that in)
3) pause for time, nuke glitch, and climbershrugger glitch did not exist in amiga. (easy fix)
4) Intro that only exists on Amiga, with it's own music. (beyond my abilities)
5) different level data. (i had done this)
6) different music order. can-can was first on amiga, and the others are different order.
7) amiga does not accept mouse clicks while pawsed, except on the paws button itself. this means you can't change release rate while pawsed, because amiga has no hotkey for it.  (my idea was to have changing release rate while pawsed advance one frame, to keep to restrictions of original).
8) sky is blue, not black. (had fixed it)
9) release rate sound pitch is related to release rate (dunno how to fix)
10) skill change bong does a do re mi.                     (hadn't fixed that either)
11) amiga is PAL and expects a 50hz display.
12) crude stereo panning in sfx only mode
13) more sfx in sfx mode.
14) boing instead of yippee for exit. (when DID amiga use yippee? intro only?)

anything i'm missing?

okay. seems there's an exception in the sky color for the special levels. beast of a level IS black, even on amiga..
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 08:22:37 PM by Zaphod77 »

Offline WillLem

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Re: LemmixAmiga. WIP.
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2021, 11:50:01 PM »
4) Intro that only exists on Amiga, with it's own music. (beyond my abilities)

I should be able to OBS this from the emulator.

7) amiga does not accept mouse clicks while pawsed, except on the paws button itself. this means you can't change release rate while pawsed, because amiga has no hotkey for it.  (my idea was to have changing release rate while pawsed advance one frame, to keep to restrictions of original).

This is a good idea, but - again - if you're going to do this you might as well add in all of the QoL features that we're used to (such as direction select, assign-whilst-paused, framestepping, etc). I would suggest doing so and having a "Player Assist" mode and a "Classic" mode which can be toggled on or off in settings.

9) release rate sound pitch is related to release rate (dunno how to fix)
10) skill change bong does a do re mi (hadn't fixed that either)

I should be able to sort the panel sounds out manually; not sure how to sort the RR sound out either, but I'll look into it.

13) more sfx in sfx mode.

This is news to me! I've always had the music on, I never engaged FX mode (or if I did, I can't remember doing so). I tried it out and was surprised to hear all of the water splashes and fire trap sounds, which I didn't think even existed in the Amiga version!!

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with.