Author Topic: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels  (Read 3669 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
[ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« on: November 27, 2020, 02:33:23 PM »
Thought it would be useful to make a record of any and all packs which contain repeat levels. Note that, in this case, a "repeat level" is defined as any which uses the exact same terrain/object map, but makes changes to the skillset, time limit, lem count, save requirement, and/or release rate. It does not include remix levels which make any terrain or object changes, however small.

Index:

Lemmings (DMA)
Lemmings Redux (DMA / The Lemmings Forums Community)
Lemmings Plus Series (namida)
GeoffLems (Geoffster)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 07:39:48 AM by WillLem »

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2020, 02:34:14 PM »
Lemmings (1991, DMA)

Group#Title Version AGroup#Title Version BDifferences
Fun1Just Dig!Tricky15Ozone Friendly LemmingsSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun2Only Floaters Can Survive ThisTricky18It's Lemmingentry, WatsonSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun4Now Use Miners And ClimbersMayhem20No Added Colours Or LemmingsLem Count, Save Requirement, Release Rate & Skillset
Fun5You Need Bashers This TimeTricky16Luvly JublySave Requirement, Release Rate & Skillset
Fun6A Task For Blockers And BombersTricky17Diet LemmingaidSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun7Builders Will Help You HereTricky19Postcard From LemminglandSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun8Not As Complicated As It LooksTricky22Turn Around Young Lemmings!Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun9As Long As You Try Your BestTricky26I Have A Cunning PlanSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun10Smile If You Love LemmingsTaxing9PerseveranceSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun11Keep Your Hair On Mr. LemmingTaxing18Tribute To M.C. EscherSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun12PatienceTricky23From The Boundary LineSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun13We All Fall Down*Tricky2We All Fall DownSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun14Origins And LemmingsTricky30The CrankshaftLem Count, Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun15Don't Let Your Eyes Deceive YouTaxing1If At First You Don't SucceedSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun16Don't Do Anything Too HastyTaxing3Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!!)Lem Count, Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun17Easy When You Know HowTaxing6Compression Method 1Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun18Let's Block And BlowTaxing19BomboozalSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun19Take Good Care Of My LemmingsTaxing25Follow The LeaderSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillsets
Fun20We Are Now At LEMCON ONEMayhem7Poles ApartSave Requirement, Release Rate & Skillset
Fun21You Live And LemMayhem26The Steel Mines Of KesselSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun23I've Lost That Lemming FeelingTaxing17X Marks The SpotLem Count, Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun24Konbanwa Lemming SanMayhem3It's Hero Time!Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun25Lemmings Lemmings EverywhereMayhem4The CrossroadsSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun26Nightmare On Lem StreetMayhem13The Great Lemming CaperRelease Rate & Skillset
Fun27Let's Be Careful Out ThereTaxing22Come On Over To My PlaceSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun28If Only They Could FlyMayhem5Down, Along, Up. In That OrderLem Count & Skillset
Fun29Worra Lorra LemmingsMayhem9Curse Of The PharaohsSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun30Lock Up Your LemmingsMayhem24All Or NothingLem Count, Save Requirement, Release Rate, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky3A Ladder Would Be HandyTaxing29How Do I Dig Up The Way?Save Requirement, Release Rate, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky4Here's One I Prepared EarlierTaxing7Every Lemming For Himself!!!Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky5Careless Clicking Costs LivesTaxing8The Art GallerySave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky6LemmingologyTaxing10Izzie Wizzie Lemmings Get BusySave Requirement & Skillset
Tricky7Been There, Seen It, Done ItTaxing11The Ascending Pillar ScenarioLem Count, Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky8Lemming Sanctuary In SightTaxing23King Of The CastleSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky9They Just Keep On ComingMayhem6One Way Or AnotherSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky10There's A Lot Of Them AboutMayhem15The Fast Food KitchenSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky11Lemmings In The AtticMayhem19Time To Get Up!Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky12Bitter LemmingMayhem21With A Twist Of Lemming PleaseSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Tricky13Lemming DropsMayhem25Have A Nice Day!Save Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset

*Also appears as Taxing 30 and Mayhem 11
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 12:25:16 AM by WillLem »

Offline Proxima

  • Posts: 4569
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 05:16:16 PM »
Lemmings Redux

The list of repeats is much shorter for Redux, because it was a deliberate decision to trim most of them out -- indeed, during the early stages of development we discussed the possibility of going for a completely repeat-free pack, but decided against it because some repeat pairs had merit -- a few tutorial levels have good repeats; there were a couple we wanted to keep in the 20-of-all section; Genesis has some pairs where both levels are distinct puzzles (although the only one where we actually kept both levels, "Fall and no life", has a slight terrain difference, so doesn't count by the strict definition).

Group#Title Version AGroup#Title Version BDifferences
Gentle2Only floaters can survive thisQuirky2It's Lemmingentry, WatsonSave requirement & skillset
Gentle4Now use miners and climbersLunatic4No added colours or lemmingsLem count, save requirement, release rate & skillset
Gentle7Builders will help you hereZany19Postcard from LemminglandLem count, save requirement & skillset
Gentle17You Live and LemLunatic21The Steel Mines of KesselSave requirement & skillset
Gentle22Let's be careful out thereManic14Come on over to my placeSave requirement & skillset

Offline Proxima

  • Posts: 4569
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 06:09:39 PM »
Some trivia concerning repeat levels in original Lemmings:

* There are exactly 40 pairs of repeat levels and 40 unique levels.
* All repeat pairs, other than We all fall down, have one level appearing before Tricky 14 (MENACING !!) and one after.
* The furthest separated repeat pair is Fun 4 and Mayhem 20.
* Fun 3 (Tailor-made for blockers) and Fun 22 (A beast of a level) are the only Fun levels with no repeat. Creating the "missing" repeat of Fun 3 has been extremely popular among custom level designers, to the point that one such repeat is titled "Lemming Cliche".
* Repeat pairs are produced by what is called "oddtabling": only one level has its full data present, while the other has an "oddtable" that refers to its counterpart for terrain and has its own data for level stats and skillset. NeoLemmix used to offer oddtabling, but no longer does in new-formats.

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 07:50:11 PM »
For my packs. All of these may be any changes to the level's stats, but no changes to the level's layout unless noted otherwise.

Lemmings Plus I (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus II (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus III (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus IV (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus V (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus VI (click to show/hide)

Holiday Lemmings Plus (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus Omega (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus Omega II (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus Alpha (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus 3D (click to show/hide)

Doomsday Lemmings (click to show/hide)

Spanning multiple packs (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:58:51 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 07:09:50 AM »
* All repeat pairs, other than We all fall down, have one level appearing before Tricky 14 (MENACING !!) and one after.
---
* Fun 3 (Tailor-made for blockers) and Fun 22 (A beast of a level) are the only Fun levels with no repeat. Creating the "missing" repeat of Fun 3 has been extremely popular among custom level designers, to the point that one such repeat is titled "Lemming Cliche".

Interesting stuff! This means that Tricky 1 also doesn't have a repeat, if we take Tricky 14 to be the "midpoint" - i.e. almost all levels before it have a repeat after it. I might get on doing a "missing repeat" of my own for it :)

For my packs. All of these may be any changes to the level's stats, but no changes to the level's layout unless noted otherwise.

Thanks for posting! I'd like to get these into proper tables at some point - this will be much easier thanks to your info :thumbsup:

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2020, 07:26:22 AM »
OK, after Proxima pointed out which levels are missing repeats, I couldn't resist doing these. I've tried to design them in such a way that they would still have been fairly difficult to play on the Amiga platform, and are about as puzzly as I could manage. Amazingly, Fun 3 lends itself very well to a single-Blocker puzzle, so the DMA team missed a trick here!

I've also made (Super)Lemmini versions of these levels as well, so that they can be played with timed bombers ;P
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 08:07:59 AM by WillLem »

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2020, 07:29:37 AM »
I'll get (Super)Lemmini versions of these levels made as well, so that they can be played with timed bombers ;P

Superlemmini doesn't have timed bombers anymore, at least not after a certain version. So, you're out of luck there.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2020, 08:04:42 AM »
Superlemmini doesn't have timed bombers anymore, at least not after a certain version. So, you're out of luck there.

Yes, but Lemmini does, hence why I put the "Super" in brackets ;P Also, if Tsyu ever makes an appearance again, SL may have timed bombers again in the future.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 08:58:20 PM by WillLem »

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2020, 08:30:59 AM »
Haha yes indeed. And again, it used to, so you can still use them if you happen to still have a really old SL version. And these ( ) are parenthesis, not brackets :P These [ ] are brackets.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2020, 09:10:30 AM »
Quote
*Also appears as Taxing 30 and Mayhem 11

Taxing 30 and Mayhem 11 have a slight terrain difference from Fun 13 and Tricky 2. One could argue that if Taxing 30 and/or Mayhem 11 count as a repeat of Fun 13 / Tricky 2, then Mayhem 27 counts as a repeat of Mayhem 16. (On the flipside, you could counter-argue this by noting that the WAFD terrain difference is decorative, and barely noticable at that.)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2020, 08:59:49 PM »
Taxing 30 and Mayhem 11 have a slight terrain difference from Fun 13 and Tricky 2

Really, whereabouts? Interesting news!

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3384
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: [ALL PACKS] Packs Featuring Repeat Levels
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2020, 01:29:14 AM »
GeoffLems (Geoffster)

Group#Title Version AGroup#Title Version BDifferences
Fun1How Do I Lemming?Taxing30Tabula RasaLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun2Little UmbrellasTricky16No Lemming Left BehindSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun3DrumsticksTricky9Short Controlled BurstsSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun4The Bricklayer's GuildTricky22One Step AheadLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun5The Crystal ShipTricky24The Millau ViaductSave Requirement, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun6SubterraneansTaxing5Smuggler's RunLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun7PromenadeMayhem17The PlateauSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun8Lemming Fun ClubMayhem20Panic At The DiscoSave Requirement, Release Rate, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun10Over Fire IslandMayhem12Think Fast!Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun11QuadropheniaTaxing20Just A Minute: Stereo RemixSave Requirement, Release Rate, Time Limit & Skillset
Fun12Up The Fire EscapeTaxing19DesperadosSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun13Mind The GapTricky8ObstacleSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun14Heure De PointTricky13Trick WireSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun15The Scrap YardTricky7Mining Workforce In DeclineSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun16Roadhouse BluesTaxing24Up We GoLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun17Post-LemmingismTaxing7MondrianSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun18LemmixologyTricky28Proposed Keystone PipelineSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun20Tread CarefullyTricky4The BelltowerSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun21MezzanineMayhem16LogisticsSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun22Sky ArchipelagoTricky25The Yungas RoadSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun23Who Designed This Level??Taxing25Wierd MoonSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun24Little Cream SodaMayhem13The GardenSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun26Arrows Make Every Level CoolerTaxing14Bad Cover LevelLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Fun27Dr. Lemmingstone, I PresumeMayhem6KnotsSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun28Lemmings Terrain ParkTricky23EnclosureSave Requirement & Skillset
Fun29Guided TourMayhem2SwitchbacksLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Tricky1Lemming ColonyTaxing6ContainmentLem Count, Save Requirement & Skillset
Tricky3KindercareTaxing4Lunchbox SpecialSave Requirement & Skillset
Tricky5Lemming Yacht ClubTaxing15Mutiny On The BountySave Requirement & Skillset
Tricky6RenovationsTaxing2PlanksSave Requirement & Skillset
Tricky11CaravanMayhem1Safety FirstSave Requirement & Skillset
Tricky12House Of PancakesMayhem14Advanced Compression MethodSave Requirement & Skillset
Tricky14Summer's WaltzMayhem15Gluten-Free Organic LemmingsSave Requirement & Skillset
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 02:04:32 AM by WillLem »