[NeoLemmix] Builders & Bashers ONLY! With Skillset Editing

Started by WillLem, November 10, 2020, 01:28:25 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3 All
User actions

WillLem

November 10, 2020, 01:28:25 AM Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 03:56:27 PM by WillLem
The challenge is simple! Complete any pack using only Builders & Bashers.

You may edit the skillset for each level with as many Builders & Bashers as you like, but no other skills are allowed. The idea is to

a) Solve the level, obvs

and

b) Minimise the use of Builders & Bashers. Note that the TOTAL figure is what's important here, with solutions which spread the skills as evenly as possible being preferred (i.e. 3 of each is better than 6 of one, even though the latter eliminates one of the skills).

and

c) Save as many lemmings as possible!

Enjoy the challenge! :lemcat:

---

Packs played for this challenge (click link to skip to results):

Lemmings by DMA Design
Oh No! More Lemmings by DMA Design
Lemminas by WillLem
GeoffLems by Geoffster

WillLem

#1
November 10, 2020, 01:29:30 AM Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 09:51:25 AM by WillLem
Original Lemmings

Please note that the following records have yet to be completed:
Levels in blue are of particular interest - replays provided

N.B. Results shown are for Maximum Possible Saved (100% unless noted).

Contributors: WillLem, Proxima, namida, nin10doadict

Fun

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Fun1Just Dig!011
Fun2Only Floaters Can Survive This12315
Fun3Tailor Made For Blockers10111
Fun4Now Use Miners And Climbers112
Fun5You Need Bashers This Time033
Fun6A Task For Blockers And Bombers022
Fun7Builders Will Help You Here202
Fun8Not As Complicated As It Looks9110
Fun9As Long As You Try Your Best033
Fun10Smile If You Love Lemmings224
Fun11Keep Your Hair On Mr. LemmingNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Fun12Patience516
Fun13We All Fall Down12214
Fun14Origins And Lemmings325
Fun15Don't Let Your Eyes Deceive You6612
Fun16Don't Do Anything Too Hasty17219
Fun17Easy When You Know How437
Fun18Let's Block And BlowNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Fun19Take Good Care Of My Lemmings729
Fun20We Are Now At LEMCON ONE5813
Fun21You Live And Lem123
Fun22A Beast Of A Level6814
Fun23I've Lost That Lemming Feeling10616Southwest Exit
Fun24Konbanwa Lemming San404
Fun25Lemmings Lemmings Everywhere055
Fun26Nightmare On Lem Street404
Fun27Let's Be Careful Out There15217
Fun28If Only They Could Fly141024
Fun29Worra Lorra Lemmings61157679/80 Saved
Fun30Lock Up Your Lemmings033

Tricky

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Tricky1This Should Be A Doddle415
Tricky2We All Fall Down12214Same as Fun 13
Tricky3A Ladder Would Be Handy23932
Tricky4Here's One I Prepared Earlier10212
Tricky5Careless Clicking Costs Lives5510
Tricky6Lemmingology729
Tricky7Been There, Seen It, Done It501666
Tricky8Lemming Sanctuary In Sight12315
Tricky9They Just Keep On Coming12618
Tricky10There's A Lot Of Them About23932
Tricky11Lemmings In The Attic11213
Tricky12Bitter LemmingNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Tricky13Lemming Drops21425
Tricky14MENACING!!12618
Tricky15Ozone Friendly Lemmings011Same as Fun 1
Tricky16Luvly Jubly033Same as Fun 5
Tricky17Diet Lemmingaid022Same as Fun 6
Tricky18It's Lemmingentry Watson12315Same as Fun 2
Tricky19Postcard From Lemmingland202Same as Fun 7
Tricky20One-Way Digging To FreedomNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Tricky21All The 6s......5510
Tricky22Turn Around Young Lemmings!9110Same as Fun 8
Tricky23From The Boundary Line516Same as Fun 12
Tricky24Tightrope City15015
Tricky25Cascade25934
Tricky26I Have A Cunning Plan033Same as Fun 9
Tricky27The Island Of The Wicker People16420
Tricky28Lost Something?325
Tricky29Rainbow Island5510
Tricky30The Crankshaft325Same as Fun 14

Taxing

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Taxing1If At First You Don't Succeed6612Same as Fun 15
Taxing2Watch Out, There's Traps About14721
Taxing3Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!!)17219Same as Fun 16
Taxing4Lend A Helping Hand....321244
Taxing5The Prison!18422
Taxing6Compression Method 1437Same as Fun 17
Taxing7Every Lemming For Himself!!!10212Same as Tricky 4
Taxing8The Art Gallery5510Same as Tricky 5
Taxing9Perseverance224Same as Fun 10
Taxing10Izzie Wizzie Lemmings Get Busy729Same as Tricky 6
Taxing11The Ascending Pillar Scenario501666Same as Tricky 7
Taxing12Livin' On The Edge11213
Taxing13Upsidedown World15924
Taxing14Hunt The Nessy....28533
Taxing15What An AWESOME Level10717
Taxing16Mary Poppins' LandNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Taxing17X Marks The Spot10616Same as Fun 23
Taxing18Tribute To M.C. EscherNANANASame as Fun 11
Taxing19BomboozalNANANASame as Fun 18
Taxing20Walk The Web Rope6612
Taxing21Feel The Heat!729
Taxing22Come On Over To My Place15217Same as Fun 27
Taxing23King Of The Castle12315Same as Tricky 8
Taxing24Take A Running Jump.....325
Taxing25Follow The Leader...729Same as Fun 19
Taxing26Triple Trouble26733
Taxing27Call In The Bomb Squad241135
Taxing28POOR WEE CREATURES!NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Taxing29How Do I Dig Up The Way?261238Same as Tricky 3
Taxing30We All Fall Down12214Same as Fun 13

Mayhem

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Mayhem1Steel WorksNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Mayhem2The Boiler Room11415
Mayhem3It's Hero Time!404Same as Fun 24
Mayhem4The Crossroads055Same as Fun 25
Mayhem5Down, Along, Up. In That Order141024Same as Fun 28
Mayhem6One Way Or Another12618Same as Tricky 9
Mayhem7Poles Apart5813Same as Fun 20
Mayhem8Last One Out Is A Rotten Egg!NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Mayhem9Curse Of The Pharaohs611576Same as Fun 29
Mayhem10Pillars Of HerculesNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Mayhem11We All Fall Down12214Same as Fun 13
Mayhem12The Far SideNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Mayhem13The Great Lemming Caper404Same as Fun 26
Mayhem14Pea Soup17118
Mayhem15The Fast Food Kitchen...23932Same as Tricky 10
Mayhem16Just A Minute...6410
Mayhem17Stepping Stones20626
Mayhem18And Then There Were Four....22426
Mayhem19Time To Get Up!11213Same as Tricky 11
Mayhem20No Added Colours Or Lemmings224Same as Fun 4
Mayhem21With A Twist Of Lemming PleaseNANANASame as Tricky 12
Mayhem22A Beast II Of A Level12921
Mayhem23Going Up...221032
Mayhem24All Or Nothing033Same as Fun 30
Mayhem25Have A Nice Day!21425Same as Tricky 13
Mayhem26The Steel Mines Of Kessel123Same as Fun 21
Mayhem27Just A Minute... (Part Two)6410
Mayhem28Mind The Step.....19928
Mayhem29Save Me7044114
Mayhem30Rendezvous At The Mountain41206179/80 Saved

WillLem

#2
November 10, 2020, 01:30:11 AM Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 12:53:56 AM by WillLem
Oh No! More Lemmings

N.B. Results shown are for Maximum Possible Saved (100% unless noted).
Levels in blue are of particular interest - replays provided

Contributors: WillLem, Proxima, nin10doadict

Tame

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Tame1Down And Out Lemmings20424Nuke solution by Proxima - 29/50 Saved
Tame2Rent-A-Lemming011
Tame3Undercover Lemming022
Tame4Downwardly Mobile Lemmings011
Tame5Snuggle Up To A LemmingNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Tame6Intsy-Wintsy... Lemming?011
Tame7Who's That Lemming?123
Tame8Dangerzone022
Tame9And Now This...112
Tame10New Lemmings On The Block011
Tame11With Compliments022
Tame12Citizen Lemming033
Tame13Thunder-Lemmings Are Go!303
Tame14Get A Little Extra Help123
Tame15Not Just A Pretty Lemming112
Tame16Gone With The Lemming123
Tame17Honey, I Saved The Lemmings022
Tame18Lemmings For Presidents!033
Tame19Lemming Productions Present...033
Tame20Custom Built For Lemmings112

Crazy

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Crazy1Quote: "That's A Good Level"011
Crazy2Dolly DimpleNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Crazy3Many Lemmings Make Level Work24832
Crazy4Lemming Express314
Crazy524-Hour Lemathon628
Crazy6The Stack527
Crazy7And Now, The End Is Near...251136
Crazy8KEEP ON TRUCKING7613
Crazy9On The Antarctic Coast369
Crazy10ROCKY VINANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Crazy11No Problemming!10140/80 Saved
Crazy12Lemming Friendly448
Crazy13It's A Trade-OffNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Crazy14Time Waits For No Lemming21223
Crazy15Worra Load Of Old Blocks!NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Crazy16Across The Gap549
Crazy17DIGGING FOR VICTORYNANANAImpossible due to time limit
Crazy18NO PROBLEM12820
Crazy19DON'T PANIC336
Crazy20Ice Ice Lemming17522

Wild

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Wild1PoP YoR ToP!!!NANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Wild2Lemming Hotel8614
Wild3Lemming Rhythms21728
Wild4Meeting Adjourned17320
Wild5Lemming Head718
Wild6Just A Quicky235
Wild7You Take The High Road459
Wild8It's A Tight Fit!NANANAImpossible - time limit / requires Climbers & Floaters
Wild9Ice Station Lemming8210
Wild10Higgledy Piggledy11617
Wild11Mutiny On The BountyNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Wild12SNOW JOKE8715
Wild13ONWARD AND UPWARD221234
Wild14ICE SPY7613
Wild15THE SILENCE OF THE LEMMINGS5248100
Wild16Take Care, Sweetie527
Wild17The Chain With No Name91120
Wild18Dr. Lemminggood459
Wild19Lemmingdelica15116
Wild20Got Anything.... Lemmingy???10111

Wicked

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Wicked1LeMming ToMato KetchUp fAcilitY13720
Wicked2Inroducing SUPERLEMMINGNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Wicked3This Corrosion13619
Wicked4Oh No! It's The 4TH DIMENSION!19726
Wicked5Chill Out!213
Wicked6PoP TiL YoU DrOp!NANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Wicked7Last Lemming To Lemmingcentral372259
Wicked8A TOWERING PROBLEM145
Wicked9How On Earth?28432
Wicked10Temple Of LoveNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers/Floaters
Wicked11ROCKY ROAD6612
Wicked12Suicidal Tendencies18523
Wicked13Almost Nearly Virtual Reality23124
Wicked14The Lemming Learning Curve639
Wicked15SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, EGG AND LEMMINGNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Wicked16Five Alive9110
Wicked17Down The Tube123
Wicked18LoTs moRe wHeRe TheY caMe fRom10212
Wicked19Up, Down Or Round And Round628
Wicked20The Lemming Funhouse437

Havoc

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Havoc1Tubular Lemmings10616
Havoc2Be More Than Just A NumberNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Havoc3It's The Price You Have To Pay7512
Havoc4The Race Against Cliches11213
Havoc5There's Madness In The MethodNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Havoc6Now Get Out Of That!NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Havoc7Creature Discomforts13821
Havoc8Lemming About Town9312
Havoc9AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!819
Havoc10Flow Control10010
Havoc11Welcome To The Party, Pal!NANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Havoc12It's All A Matter Of Timing (ABCB)10010
Havoc13HIGHLAND FLING8412
Havoc14Synchronized Lemming6410
Havoc15Have An Ice Day549
Havoc16Scaling The Heights18725
Havoc17Where Lemmings Dare10515
Havoc18Lemmings In A Situation241236
Havoc19Looks A Bit Nippy Out There448
Havoc20LOok BeFoRe YoU LeAp!347

WillLem

#3
November 10, 2020, 01:30:33 AM Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 07:52:44 PM by WillLem
Lemminas

Please note that the following records have yet to be completed:
Levels in blue are of particular interest - replays provided

N.B. Results shown are for Maximum Possible Saved (100% unless noted).

Contributors: WillLem, Proxima, nin10doadict

Magical

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Magical1Welcome The Lemminas336
Magical2We Like To Dig Too011
Magical3Mind The Gap...10212
Magical4Lemdon Bridge9918
Magical5Lemmina Loop Prevention Service11718
Magical6Just Keep SwimmingNANANAImpossible - requires Swimmers
Magical7Lemminas Luv M.C. EscherNANANAImpossible - requires Cloners*
Magical8Pyramids of Lem (Under a PepsiCola Sky)5813
Magical9Send Them Soaring!401353
Magical10Just Shimmy!729
Magical11I'll Go First...15621
Magical12Climbing In The Moonlight606
Magical13Believe In Yourself!000
Magical14Lemminas Go Forth281543
Magical15A Jumper Would Be Handy!112
Magical16Revenge of the Ice Cream Monster161531West Exit

Sensational

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Sensational1Worra Lorra Lemminas!NANANAImpossible - requires Cloners*
Sensational2DimplesNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Sensational3Backroute To The Future14216
Sensational4Pillars of Venus17118
Sensational5See You On The Other SideNANANAImpossible - requires Climbers
Sensational6Hurry!NANANAImpossible due to time limit
Sensational7The Melting Block606
Sensational8The Continuum201333
Sensational9Delaying The Inevitable12214
Sensational10The Strange BoutiqueNANANAImpossible - requires Cloners*
Sensational11The Refrigerator18422
Sensational12Falling Forever628
Sensational13The Unnecessarily Tall Pillars14519
Sensational14Race To The Top!NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Sensational15Many Jumpers Would Be Handy!NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Sensational16Escape From Crystal Mountain221335

Tricksy

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Tricksy1Who's Doing What?NANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Tricksy2Lemmina PepsiCola Research EventNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Tricksy3The Milkshake MachineNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters/Diggers
Tricksy4Konbanwa Lemmina-san16723
Tricksy5Lemmina Drops21829
Tricksy6Day of the Daredevils! Part IIINANANAImpossible - requires Floaters & Cloners
Tricksy7Easy Peasy Lemmina SqueezyNANANAImpossible - requires Cloners*
Tricksy8Stainless Steel Lemminas235
Tricksy9POOR WEE CREATURETTESNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters & Cloners
Tricksy10Down The Rabbit HoleNANANAImpossible - requires Gliders
Tricksy11Lemminas Recurring606
Tricksy12Soda Streams17320
Tricksy13Nessy II342054
Tricksy14No I in TeamNANANAImpossible - requires Gliders & Cloners
Tricksy15Just a Second...NANANAImpossible due to time limit
Tricksy16The Crystal Cobwebs of Mt. KatieNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters

Pandemonium

Group#LevelBuildersBashersTotal
Pandemonium1Lemmina City Steel FacilityNANANAImpossible - requires Cloners*
Pandemonium2Milkshake PartyNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Pandemonium3Nightmare on Lem Street IIINANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Pandemonium4Lemgate358
Pandemonium5The Cherry Cola ConundrumNANANAImpossible - requires Stackers
Pandemonium6L-PoP10213158/60 Saved
Pandemonium7Falling Forever Part IINANANAImpossible - requires Gliders
Pandemonium8Staircase to Nowhere III17352225
Pandemonium9With a Twist of Lemmina PleaseNANANAImpossible - requires Floaters
Pandemonium10I'll Just Wait Here, Shall I?NANANAImpossible - requires Cloners*
Pandemonium11Mary Poppins' Land II12214
Pandemonium12Erm...15924
Pandemoniuml13Constellations II34943
Pandemonium14Save UsNANANAImpossible - requires Stackers
Pandemonium15Nothing is ImpossibleNANANAImpossible - requires Diggers
Pandemonium16Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II391453

*See this post for a Bonus challenge of all the "Requires Cloners" levels.

Proxima

#4
November 10, 2020, 11:37:54 AM
It should also be noted that the goal is to minimise the total number of skills, not each skill separately. (Results should have a "Total" column.)

Here's Fun 3 with 11 skills (10 builders, 1 basher).

Fun 12 is incorrectly recorded; it's 2 builders, 1 basher for any% and an additional 3 builders for 100%, so 5 and 1 in total.

WillLem

#5
November 11, 2020, 12:19:45 AM Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 04:51:30 AM by WillLem
Quote from: Proxima on November 10, 2020, 11:37:54 AM
It should also be noted that the goal is to minimise the total number of skills, not each skill separately. (Results should have a "Total" column.)

Good shout! I've added a "Total" column. And yes, to clarify: the numbers shown are not "fewest of each skill in any given solution", they are "fewest of each skill in the same solution" - so the total figure is what's important.

I've updated the OP to reflect this as well.

Thanks also for the updates/corrections, I've updated accordingly :thumbsup:

WillLem

#7
November 12, 2020, 10:20:08 PM
Tricky records added. I'm working on Taxing this evening so will have that updated later as well :lemcat:

kaywhyn

#8
November 13, 2020, 01:28:08 AM Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 01:40:43 AM by kaywhyn
I think for Fun 23/Taxing 17 it should be necessary to specify whether you took the visible exits on the left or the hidden exit on the right. Based on my playing of the Fun version, I'm guessing you guys took the visible exits route. However, I was able to use 1 less builder. Same number of bashers, but 1 less builder. Shortly after that, I was able to reduce the number of builders, as well as use 1 less basher and hence bring down the total number of skills down to 18. 11 builders, 7 bashers. So, 5 less builders, 1 less basher, and so 6 less skills overall. See my replay.

Spoiler

Takes advantage of the fact that I bashed to the right with the lemming and canceled him midstroke with a builder so that one lemming turns back way before the others while the rest can still continue to the right, and I also bashed away the staircase so that when the lemming builds to seal the gap back to the left he doesn't hit his head very early. Now it might be possible to just use one builder had I positioned the builders better, but I still had to use a second builder to seal the gap completely.

After that, I decided to try for the hidden exit on the right. Here, I got 14 builders, 9 bashers, and so 23 skills total. See my replay. So even though I bested the record in the OP by 1 less total skill, here I reduced the number of builders by 2 (-2), but I used 1 more basher (+1), hence -1 (-2 + 1 = -1) net effect to the total number of skills used. So, it seems that it'll always require way more skills than the left visible exits, especially since I don't think it's possible to get anywhere near the 18 skills total I used for the left exits. So, perhaps it's not necessary to specify which exit you went for in the level, although I still think it's a good idea to and try and improve results just for the exits you went for, like how I drastically improved the result for the left exit with just 18 skills total. Now, can anyone improve my 23 skills total result for the right hidden exit?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

WillLem

#9
November 13, 2020, 02:49:19 AM Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 03:53:52 AM by WillLem
Thanks for the contribution kaywhyn, I've checked your replay in for both levels and updated the records accordingly. Nice work!

I've also now posted all initial results for Lemmings. I'm sure a lot of these can be improved upon, and some have yet to be confirmed. I'll do that tomorrow though, too tired to go through the replays now!

kaywhyn

#10
November 13, 2020, 03:35:35 AM
Ok, improved the result even more for Fun 23/Taxing 17. Total skills now down to 16 skills, 10 builders, 6 bashers. Same replay, except

Spoiler

Instead of bashing the floor on the right side, build with the first lemming that lands safely across the gap after he walks for a bit to turn him around. Then build to seal the gap. This time, I was able to seal the gap off with just 1 builder instead of needing two builders.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

WillLem

#11
November 13, 2020, 03:41:35 AM
Brilliant stuff Kaywhyn! Records updated :thumbsup:

WillLem

#12
November 13, 2020, 03:51:11 AM
I guess what this challenge is aiming to establish is the smallest possible combination of skills that can solve every level. It would seem, from the results posted so far, that original Lemmings in its entirety can be solved using only Builders, Bashers, Floaters and Diggers (those levels which have 79/80 saved or that are currently impossible would be both possible and 100%-able with the inclusion of Diggers). It's probable that the same is also true for the Oh No! levels.

Proxima

#13
November 13, 2020, 09:14:54 AM
Quote from: WillLem on November 13, 2020, 03:51:11 AM
I guess what this challenge is aiming to establish is the smallest possible combination of skills that can solve every level.

Or at least, the smallest combination including builders and bashers, since that was our starting point.

Could all levels be solvable with some combination of 3 skills? Because of splat hatch levels, one would have to be floater or glider; obviously one would have to be constructive and one destructive. But sometimes upward destruction is required (as on "The Boiler Room") and sometimes downward destruction is (as on "The Far Side"). Bombers can't be used, because some levels require 100%.

Next question, then. There are 16 ways to choose one of {floater, glider}, one of {builder, stacker}, one of {basher, fencer} and one of {miner, digger}. Do all 16 choices allow all original levels to be solved? (Not all custom levels will be solvable, because some levels may have a hatch over water and therefore absolutely require swimmers.)

(Platformers can't be chosen as the constructive skill; "Last one out is a rotten egg" shows this.)

Proxima

#14
November 13, 2020, 09:41:07 AM
Actually... here's a horrible thought. There is one 3-skill combination that might potentially be able to solve all original levels, but it would be unbearably painful and tedious.
Spoiler
Bombers, stoners, and cloners!

Anyone want to give that a try? :P
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3 All
User actions