Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems  (Read 4035 times)

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Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2020, 12:30:07 PM »
yes now the styles work in 12.10 too. Of  course Arty still needs to fix the glider issues as they still don't work as intended in 12.10 either.

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2020, 02:11:44 PM »
I have been keeping up with reading peoples' comments and looking at solutions. This pack has tons of backroutes and for many of them I'm not sure how to seal them. Combine these with my general lack of interest in Lemmings these days, and you get someone with little motivation at the moment to update the levels. I WILL release an update hopefully in the near future with as many backroute seals as possible, but there are several levels that likely won't be able to be fixed.

Thank you everyone for taking an interest in this pack and for the feedback! I really do appreciate it! :)
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
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For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4942.0
For Old formats NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

My levelpack: ArtLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4583.0

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2020, 05:51:39 PM »
I have been keeping up with reading peoples' comments and looking at solutions. This pack has tons of backroutes and for many of them I'm not sure how to seal them. Combine these with my general lack of interest in Lemmings these days, and you get someone with little motivation at the moment to update the levels. I WILL release an update hopefully in the near future with as many backroute seals as possible, but there are several levels that likely won't be able to be fixed.

Nice to hear from you. Understandable. It seems to just be one of those times where we sometimes go through several up and down moments in life. Happens to me all the time, but they mostly come about due to how I generally don't have that much confidence in myself and that sometimes I admonish myself for not having accomplished as much as I should have even after people have reassured me that where I am in my life is normal and that I'm doing just fine and have accomplished a lot (2 school degrees plus a teaching credential). I definitely should feel proud of these accomplishments, but sometimes I think and feel otherwise. Sometimes, I simply expect too much of myself, and when I don't meet these expectations I set for myself, I admonish myself, but I generally can get over these self-downtrodden moments quickly these days, especially when I set myself back and realize I'm upset for no reason other than feel I haven't done enough, as life's just too short to dwell on these negative moments of life.

In any case, other than just making sure the pack is still playable in the most recent NL versions because of how some people might possibly still want to play Artlems in this day and age, there's no pressure to fix up the pack ASAP. Just take as much time away as you need to until you feel motivated and ready to fix your own pack. You're doing just fine ;) 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 06:05:06 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2020, 06:36:32 PM »
Also, I really enjoyed your pack, Arty. In fact this was my first Custom pack I beat on my own, without any kind of help. Alot of these levels took me along time to figure out how to solve.
The most difficult was Neoclassical 3 Fur Elise as it was very difficult getting the bottom lemmings to the top as only 5 builders were availiable. But even if the backroutes aren't fixed, it still
a great pack. The only thing I would like is to get the glider issue fixed in 2 levels (Baroque 1-as it's solution(by Armani) didn't even use the glider due to the glider issue, and Romantic 2 as the lemming doesn't glide into exit after climbing leftmost tree as he does in 12.82). And also add the missing music track Chef Manor as Medieval 3 plays an amiga tune. All the other music is awesome
as I really do like classical music. Also the reason I played the pack was because Kaywhyn beat your 12 level Not good enough levels, so that's when I jumped in to beat Artlems. Also to me
those were good enough even if you don't think so.

Also as Kaywhyn said it was nice hearing from you.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2020, 03:24:29 AM »
All that's important for the time being is ensuring that the pack is playable in the newest NL version. Issues regarding glider physics and backroutes can be fixed at a later time. It's already been proven that the entire pack is possible in 12.9 despite the glider problems. The only thing is simply finding those alternative solutions/backroutes. All it means is that the intended solution relying on them isn't possible. Otherwise, simply play in v12.8 where the glider works properly. Not a big deal at all.

I'm also in agreement that your 12-level pack Artlems: Lost Pieces of levels you rejected was still good. Only one level was extremely annoying to execute, but the rest was still of good quality, I thought. Level 10 was a bit of a grinder to figure out, but it was still a fine puzzle/level, even if it was quite on the large side. These thoughts/feedback and much more on Lost Pieces I posted in that pack topic from some time ago, which I'm sure you already saw.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 02:54:01 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2020, 12:19:52 AM »
RE: Chrisleec728

Ok, yes I see your thread here. Also it's nice your also playing the pack. I've already finished the pack as you probably can see in the previous posts.

And I see you mentioned Medieval 3 saying it plays an ONML tune. But when you open this level in the editor, it says it's supposed to play chef manor. But in Arty's music folder it's missing, that's
why it plays a default tune.  Anyways many levels outside of the Ancient rank(which you say you finished) are quite challenging(some are easy though). Also like you I like classical music.

Anyways, good luck with playing the rest of the levels. Maybe when you finish the pack, you can post your replays, so I can compare mine to yours. (Also I did get all 10 Talismans)


Notes on 2 levels(glider)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2020, 02:51:49 PM »
V1.1 has just been released! It features many backroute seals people have found as well as names for all of the talismans. I'm sure plenty of backroutes still exist, but they should hopefully be harder to find. Have fun!
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
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My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/colorfularty

My levelpack: SubLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4942.0
For Old formats NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

My levelpack: ArtLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4583.0

Offline Swerdis

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2020, 03:57:47 PM »
That's good news. ArtLems will be most likely the next pack I play when I have finished PimoLems. And I will backroute the hell out of it :-)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2020, 04:21:36 PM »
Just downloaded the newest version of the pack. I can confirm that the glider issues for Baroque 1 and Romantic 2 have not been fixed, and so those levels are still broken due to how the intended solution relying on the glider cannot be done.

That's good news. ArtLems will be most likely the next pack I play when I have finished PimoLems. And I will backroute the hell out of it :-)

Great to hear this, Swerdis! :thumbsup: I likely won't play this pack for quite a while. Probably will end up LPing this pack after I possibly finish my LP for Sublems/Lemmings Plus 1. In any case, I eventually will, just for me not right away and for quite some time.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2020, 05:26:18 PM »
ok, great, Arty, Now I'll have to go redo the changed levels. I hope I can. So I can say I've finished a pack on my own. I'm kind of worried now.

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2020, 05:47:06 PM »
What exactly do you mean by glider issues? All of the intended solutions are still intact, so if you can't use the glider to solve a level, you aren't doing it right.
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiRPZ5j87ft_clSRLFCESQA

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/colorfularty

My levelpack: SubLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4942.0
For Old formats NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

My levelpack: ArtLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4583.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2020, 06:45:29 PM »
There are 2 levels where the glider doesn't work the same in 12.82 and 12.10

1) Baroque 1
    check my solution in 12.82 where the climber after climbing left of hatch(then a glider) will not glide onto top right terrain in 12.10 but he does in 12.82
2) Romantic 2
   check my attempt(fails in 12.10 but works in 12.82) and Kaywhyn's solution in 12.82 and 12.10.
   Notice the lemming will not glide into exit after climbing tree left of exit(he doesn't in 12.10 but does in 12.82)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2020, 07:28:50 PM »
What exactly do you mean by glider issues? All of the intended solutions are still intact, so if you can't use the glider to solve a level, you aren't doing it right.

I'm not the one who initially reported problems with Baroque 1 and Romantic 2 due to the glider physics breaking those two levels. eric reported them, and since I saw that you released a new version of your pack, I quickly checked to see if those two levels were fixed for v12.9 and beyond, which they sadly aren't. I'm also not seriously currently playing through the pack. For this reason, other than eric, who is currently the only person to have played and solved the entire pack in the initial version of the pack AFAIK, it's difficult to know exactly what levels have changed between v1.0 and v1.1, as well as what changes were made without a changelog detailing those changes :P Therefore, it wouldn't matter to me, since I won't know what changes have been made due to having not yet played through any of the pack other than finding an alternative solution to Romantic 2 to see if your entire pack was still 100% possible on v12.9 and beyond.

The reason why your replays don't break for these two levels is because you made them before v12.9, where the glider did work properly. You probably also didn't try your replays in v12.9 and beyond. Once v12.9 came, there was a fix which resulted in some levels breaking due to the glider opening its glide slightly later than usual, causing the glider to now be unable to reach certain areas on some levels in packs that were released before v12.9's NL release. As eric said, in Baroque 1, the glider fails to reach the top area on the right, which we're all certain you intended, and so any solution that doesn't use the glider, like Armani's, is most definitely a backroute. For Romantic 2, the glider does not glide into the exit after climbing the tree on the left side, but I was still able to find an alternative solution that still relies on the glider getting into the exit, but in the process the skills that I would have had leftover all ended up being used. This means that thanks to Armani's backroute to Baroque 1 and my alternative solution to Romantic 2, your pack was confirmed as still 100% possible on v12.9.4 despite the broken glider physics. The easiest thing to do in this case is to simply play on v12.8, where the glider works properly. Even then, you don't need to change your replays for the two levels. You just need to readjust the terrain in those two levels so that the glider is able to reach its intended destination and hence the intended solution is still intact for v12.9 and beyond.

To put more perspective into this, here's the link where the fix was made after some input from the community: Shimmier-glider no longer works in v12.9

ok, great, Arty, Now I'll have to go redo the changed levels. I hope I can. So I can say I've finished a pack on my own. I'm kind of worried now.

You can do it! ;) If you're not able to resolve some of the levels, I'll help in any way I can whenever I get around to playing the pack. Or, others who play this pack before I get to can help.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 08:05:08 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2020, 02:38:38 AM »
Why the heck were glider physics changed an a newer version of NeoLemmix? Didn't that change break a crud ton of levels across many packs? Seems rather unnecessary.

Oh well, guess I'll have to get the new version to see for myself. :P
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiRPZ5j87ft_clSRLFCESQA

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/colorfularty

My levelpack: SubLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4942.0
For Old formats NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

My levelpack: ArtLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4583.0

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2020, 02:57:39 AM »
Why the heck were glider physics changed an a newer version of NeoLemmix? Didn't that change break a crud ton of levels across many packs? Seems rather unnecessary.

Oh well, guess I'll have to get the new version to see for myself. :P

No, most existing packs before v12.9's release were unaffected by this change :P For those existing packs which did have some levels affected by the glider change and rendered impossible, luckily only a small number of levels were affected. There was generally only 1 or a few levels in those packs that were rendered impossible due to how the glider now wasn't able to reach certain destinations because of how the glider ends up opening the glide slightly later than usual. For example, if I'm not mistaken, Strato's LWT pack only had 2 levels that were broken (one was due to how the updraft was too low for the glider to use, although I managed to backroute his level by not using the glider at all). Seb Lems had one level that was impossible but it's already been fixed to account for the glider physics change. So far, the only pack I have seen that had a lot of levels (I think around 7) rendered impossible due to the physics change in the glider is United, but again Icho already fixed them, so the levels that were affected are now possible and solvable again. As the link I provided shows, the reason for the change was to eliminate the trick of a shimmier being able to glide to land on top of a full stack if you assign a shimmier when the lemming is right next to the stack, but more importantly, the reason the trick worked was due to a bug and hence the community agreed that the bug should be fixed and and hence eliminate the stacker => shimmier => glider trick. So, the reason this trick no longer works is due to how the glider opens up his glide slightly later than usual rather than early to allow this to happen. It was fortunately at a time when it was caught early shortly after v12.9's release and shortly after the shimmier made it into NL stable, therefore this change affecting a lot of future content won't be a problem.

Even with this change in the slight delay in opening up the glide, it still doesn't make too much of a difference in terms of what levels it affects the solvability of anyway, hence why I said most existing content was unaffected. The most important thing this change did was simply eliminate the stacker => shimmier => glider trick, but again it was due to a bug and it's generally agreed that bugs should be eliminated. Just be fortunate that this change in glider physics broke only two of your levels in all of your Artlems pack in v12.9 and after :P
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 03:15:32 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0