Poll

Preference for Fire style? (See reply #16)

Existing color with outline (fire.png)
1 (12.5%)
Yellow with outline (fire_yellow.png)
2 (25%)
Bright cyan with outline (fire_blue1.png)
1 (12.5%)
Dark cyan with outline (fire_blue2.png)
4 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets  (Read 831 times)

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Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2019, 08:19:05 am »
Here's 7 of the 9 official styles with the outlined OWAs. (The other two have custom one-way arrow graphics, so aren't affected by changes to the default.)

Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2019, 08:25:18 am »
Here's the same modification applied to the Fire arrows. (I don't think it would suit Crystal, plus Crystal is plenty visible as-is.)

Also attached are three possible alternate colors that work alright. I like the 3rd one (out of the alternates; ie: blue2) the best (maybe because it feels closest to the original?).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 05:39:41 pm by namida »

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2019, 10:41:59 am »
Are all of these going to be optional? ;) These look more different from the original ones than I expected - there are probably going to be cases where people would want to use these for increased visibility, but I wouldn't want them to replace the default ones, at least not as a complete replacement, without the option of sticking to the original versions, for those who want to.
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Offline Proxima

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2019, 11:09:42 am »
I like these a lot :thumbsup: Very good visibility all-round. For the Fire arrows, I agree the third one is the best; cyan stands out very well on red terrain.

Offline mobius

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2019, 05:41:41 pm »
Will we still be able to edit the colors ourselves the same way as before (in theme.nxtm)?
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Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2019, 05:45:29 pm »
Are all of these going to be optional? ;) These look more different from the original ones than I expected - there are probably going to be cases where people would want to use these for increased visibility, but I wouldn't want them to replace the default ones, at least not as a complete replacement, without the option of sticking to the original versions, for those who want to.

If the decision is in favor of these, they will replace the existing ones. Users are free to restore the old graphics manually in their copy of NL if they wish - these days copies of older styles downloads are preserved so you can get the graphics from those.

EDIT: If doing this though, keep in mind that any future styles that use default OWAs will likely pick their colors with the outline in mind - so if any style seems unclear without the outline, make sure it still looks unclear with the outline too before reporting an issue. And likewise, if creating your own styles that use the default OWAs, make sure the color you pick still looks good with the outline as well.

I like these a lot :thumbsup: Very good visibility all-round. For the Fire arrows, I agree the third one is the best; cyan stands out very well on red terrain.

Ah, sorry, I specifically meant the 3rd of the different color ones was my favorite - ie, the duller blue that's closer to the original, but still stands out a fair bit more. But this isn't a super strong preference, and I'm open to any of those (or another option altogether) if that's where the community preference is.

Will we still be able to edit the colors ourselves the same way as before (in theme.nxtm)?

Yes, and I'm still open to changing the default colors too if people feel this is necessary (although I suspect that, Fire aside, this won't be the case anymore - they all look pretty clear to me!).

However, you won't be able to edit the inside and outline colors separately. The outline color will always be a darker shade of the main color (the main color is what theme.nxmt will specify).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 06:06:30 pm by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2019, 06:20:10 pm »
Added a poll regarding the outline. (I'll do a separate one for the Fire arrow colors.)

Also - while I won't do a screenshot for every style, here's how the high-res outlined OWAs look (this is with custom outlined graphics created the same way as the low-res ones; not just upscaling).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 06:31:12 pm by namida »

Offline Dullstar

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2019, 10:26:24 pm »
In case I forget to check back later when that poll goes up, I like blue2 the best for Fire. It improves visibility compared no color change, while maintaining the original feel quite well compared to yellow or blue1.

Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2019, 02:23:11 am »
Okay - it's pretty clear opinion is overwhelmingly in favor of the "fat" outlined arrows (only one vote for status quo, and none at all for "thin" outlined arrows), so I don't see the need to keep that poll up any longer.

Poll for the different colors for the Fire style is up.

Offline mobius

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2019, 02:27:57 am »
I think I voted after leaving the page open for so long that the poll had changed and as a result it registered my vote for something I didn't even realize. Is it possible to undo my vote so I can read it and vote properly?
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Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2019, 03:03:48 am »
I had a look at the L2 and L3 ones - unfortunately I didn't save the screenshots. The only thing that stood out to me was that l2_egypt and l2_shadow have custom one-way arrow objects. l2_shadow's were barely different from the default (and not different at all for the left-facing arrows), so l2_shadow will use the default ones in the future. l2_egypt's are a bit more different - I get the impression they're taken from WinLemm and downscaled? - so I'll leave them as is, unless people really think we should use the standard ones.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2019, 11:56:53 am »
I had a look at the L2 and L3 ones - unfortunately I didn't save the screenshots. The only thing that stood out to me was that l2_egypt and l2_shadow have custom one-way arrow objects. l2_shadow's were barely different from the default (and not different at all for the left-facing arrows), so l2_shadow will use the default ones in the future. l2_egypt's are a bit more different - I get the impression they're taken from WinLemm and downscaled? - so I'll leave them as is, unless people really think we should use the standard ones.

Shadow should just have standard bright yellow ones in the normal case. Can I ask in which terms they are currently different? ???

L2 egypt ones are indeed downscaled WinLemm arrows

Offline namida

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2019, 05:39:49 pm »
Quote
Shadow should just have standard bright yellow ones in the normal case. Can I ask in which terms they are currently different? ???

Look at the bottom-right of each arrow in the one-way-right arrows (this must be the actual OWW_right object, not just a flipped OWW_left).

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2019, 08:44:48 pm »
Look at the bottom-right of each arrow in the one-way-right arrows (this must be the actual OWW_right object, not just a flipped OWW_left).

So just some very minor animation change needed here.

Alright then, as long as they stay bright yellow (I find them very fitting here) I am totally for this change in favor of simplicity. :)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [SUG][CONTENT] change default arrow colors of original sets
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2019, 09:26:11 am »
Speaking of yellow, can we get those yellow fire arrows provided in some style? Not as the default, just as an option?

With the regular, back-and-forth-moving arrows, which appear on all other official tilesets, it's easy to find surrogates that have the colour you desire for a particular level. However, the continuously-moving triangular arrows are only available in blue, to my knowledge.

So it would simply be nice to have some alternatives here as well. ;)

I do indeed like a lot of these arrows on a purely visual basis; however, I'm still a little uncomfortable with the idea of them overwriting the default arrows of at least the official tilesets - especially when they significantly change their look, by going with a completely different colour or shape. After all, not only custom packs, but also the original packs Lemmings and ONML plus all the Holiday Lemmings packs are going to be affected by this change.

I think playing the original packs should still feel as authentic as possible in NeoLemmix. Couldn't outlines in general be made an option that every player can adjust for themselves under "preferences" in the main menu? Much like the high-quality mini map, or also high-res mode, I guess? ;)

Because high-res mode is another thing that, while visually nice, alters the rough and deliberatly "cheap"-looking aesthetics of the original game. 8-)
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