Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]  (Read 4897 times)

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Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2019, 09:14:17 pm »
More updates: V 1.6 is out! :)

The following level has received a backroute fix:

- 3 37 (moved the central wall up a bit)

Other than that the whole rank 1-3 spectrum has now been restested with intended/acceptable solutions. :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 05:14:43 pm by IchoTolot »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2019, 11:01:47 pm »
Well, the last fix was not enough. ;P   So as a result 1.7 is out!

The following level has received a backroute fix:

- 3 37 (more terrain changes at the central wall)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 09:57:20 pm »
The fix train has reached the 4th rank. :) V 1.8 is out!

The following level has received a backroute fix:

- 4 06 (added a bit of steel)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 05:14:50 pm by IchoTolot »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2019, 05:31:05 pm »
V 1.9 is out! :)

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 11 (some terrain changes)
- 4 13 (added a OWW)
- 4 14 (-1 miner and some terrain changes)
- 4 17 (added a pick-up skill builder and therefore removed 1 builder)
- 4 18 (extra steel was added)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 05:15:01 pm by IchoTolot »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2019, 10:13:54 pm »
Some backroutes were eliminated, but not all. V 2.0 is out! ;)

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 13 (some terrain was added)
- 4 18 (-1 stacker and changed the solution to the backroute as it is simply more efficient)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2019, 10:52:49 am »
More fixes for rank 4. V 2.1 is out! :)

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 13 (added a bomber pick-up skill and reduced the bomber count by 1)
- 4 22 (added some steel)
- 4 24 (added 3 stoner pick-up skills and reduced the stoner count by 3)
- 4 25 (the platforms are now thinner)
- 4 28 (added a OWW)
- 4 29 (added some steel)

The following level has received a tiny fix for a visual error:

- 4 11

Also a solution to 4 21 was found that saves 2 walkers and 2 diggers, but I decided to leave this one a bit open-ended so it's acceptable. Both solutions are very hard to find anyway. ;)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2019, 05:26:40 pm »
Some levls were re-backrouted. V 2.2 is out! :)

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 22 (steel and water was added)
- 4 24 (cloner pick-up skill added and therefore -1 cloner)
- 4 28 (some terrain changes were made)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2019, 07:42:53 pm »
From 3 to 2 backroutes. :P

V 2.3 is out!

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 22 (more steel)
- 4 24 (moved a piece of decoration a bit away)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2019, 08:28:42 pm »
And now from 2 to 1. ;P

V 2.4 is out!

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 22 (even more steel)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2019, 09:49:50 pm »
The backroute war continues. :XD:

V 2.5 is out!

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 22 (more steel and some extra terrain)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2019, 10:03:54 pm »
More backroutes to fix. :)

V 2.6 is out!

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 36 (very slight terrain change)
- 4 37 (the 2 gliders are pick-up skills now)
- 4 39 (1 stoner is now a pick-up skill)
- 4 40 (a OWW has been added)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2019, 02:24:14 pm »
I found a backroute myself this time! :P

V 2.7 is out!

The following levels have received a backroute fix:

- 4 39 (a slight terrain change in the exit area)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2019, 02:51:19 pm »
Well, this is the first time I witnessed how long "professional" pre-release testing can actually take... and yet, I still see a bunch of new updates for backroute fixes coming up. And that even with such an experienced level designer like you.

That's a little demotivating as far as creation of my own packs is concerned :( ... as well as for any other more "casual" level creator, I guess.

Is somebody already LPing this pack on YouTube? And on a general level: Are there any LPs of packs which showcase them in a predominantly backroute-fixed state? :D

Because let's face it: Once somebody has completed a pack, they rarely go back and check whether their replays are still working in the most current version. ;)

The upside for me is: This pack has proven itself way too difficult for me at the moment anyway. So most likely, when I finally get back to it after hopefully having beaten some other, easier packs, it is going to be in a state where most of the backroutes have already been discovered and removed! :thumbsup:
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2019, 03:03:45 pm »
Before release one tester finished rank 3, so I was not surprised quite a few backroutes surfaced in rank 4 (I expected even more tbh). Rank 4 and the majority of rank 5 were pretty much untested.

It will take quite a few testing iterations by different people to get the pack in a MOSTLY stable state regarding backroutes.

Quote
That's a little demotivating as far as creation of my own packs is concerned :( ... as well as for any other more "casual" level creator, I guess.

Don't be demotivated! Backroutes will always be there, you can limit them a bit in advance through experience, but I highly doubt it is possible to avoid them. :P

Also it's just a basic concept of software design: After release you will always have more testing and maintenance to do, even if you have testers run through it before.

Quote
Is somebody already LPing this pack on YouTube?

The Tomato Watcher has put up a few videos covering nearly half of the 1st rank currently and there was also 1 stream by Colorful Arty covering ~ 3/4 of the 1st rank.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2019, 03:32:00 pm »
Quote
The Tomato Watcher has put up a few videos covering nearly half of the 1st rank currently and there was also 1 stream by Colorful Arty covering ~ 3/4 of the 1st rank.

Ah, good to know, thanks! ;)

Quote
Also it's just a basic concept of software design: After release you will always have more testing and maintenance to do, even if you have testers run through it before.

Of course, but there are those games which only require little add-ons and bonus perks post-release, and those which have an initial release full of bugs. With NeoLemmix itself being quite stable, backroutes are kind of the "bugs" of our individual packs ^^.

Since my own creations tend to contain quite a high share of them, I thought that experience might help other content creators avoid more backroutes from the getgo. People who can create more challenging puzzles to begin with are probably also better at immediately recognising how someone else could break them.

But as it turns out, it seems like also for Lemmings United, it's the more complicated, higher-rank levels that contain more backroutes, simply because they offer more degrees of freedom. The more contained puzzles from the first rank are easier to assess; I remember almost no information about a 1st-rank level having had to be modified in any of the PMs I got from you during the test phase. ;)
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels