Author Topic: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen  (Read 1897 times)

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Online IchoTolot

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2018, 10:22:12 am »
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In my opinion the biggest UX problem with the RR is, that changing it does not give an immediate feedback to the player. And displaying it on the preview screen doesn't help much in that regard.

Different idea then: We've got hatch markers. Maybe display the current RR there (with a lock icon for locked rates) could help players make the connection.

As far as for the "Author" field goes. There I am strictly against touching that. Credit to those who deserve the credit on a level! Even if it's no gameplay relevant information, I would like to see which person(s) created the level.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 05:15:56 pm »
One suggestion to handle the talisman display issue might be to implement a way to enforce talisman conditions. This would be useful in solving them as well, as the new requirements (e.g. harsher save requirements, complete level without using any builders) would be shown in level.

Of course, the talisman should still be awarded if the conditions are met without being enforced.

You could also go with the "This level has a talisman" option suggested earlier, and then display the talisman text in place of the other information when this text is hovered over.

Offline Nepster

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 06:53:08 pm »
One suggestion to handle the talisman display issue might be to implement a way to enforce talisman conditions. This would be useful in solving them as well, as the new requirements (e.g. harsher save requirements, complete level without using any builders) would be shown in level.
There are a few problems with this: Apart from the coding and possibly UI/UX issues, the main one are talisman conditions like "Use at most X skills in total". How would you display this info?

You could also go with the "This level has a talisman" option suggested earlier, and then display the talisman text in place of the other information when this text is hovered over.
In theory this would be certainly worth some considerations, but the current menu display just isn't flexible by far to accomodate such things.

Online namida

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2018, 07:46:43 pm »
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There are a few problems with this: Apart from the coding and possibly UI/UX issues, the main one are talisman conditions like "Use at most X skills in total". How would you display this info?

As far as a way that's easy to implement goes, my suggestion:

- On preview screen, display "Total Skill Limit: X"
- In-game, when checking a skill's count (including for rendering the skill panel), instead of just using "GetSkillCount(spbSkill)" directly, use the lesser of that or the remaining number of skill uses before hitting the limit.
- Perhaps, when a skill is limited by the total skill uses rather than its own uses (for example, if you have 5 builders remaining, but you have 5 or less total skill uses remaining), display the skill count in red.

Secondary suggestion: As much as I don't like the idea of it being a core game mechanic, restricting such a feature to a "talisman mode" seems like an artificial restriction. If this were to be implemented, a total-skill-limit may as well become a core gameplay feature.

I believe the total skill limit, is the only remaining talisman condition that would pose a problem for enforcing. Aside from that, we have save requirements, time limits and single-skill limits, all of which are just tighter versions of the level's standard rules.
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Offline Nepster

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 09:36:24 am »
Regarding the original issue: I implemented IchoTolot's suggestion and removed the release rate info. See the attached image for the new look.

Secondary suggestion: As much as I don't like the idea of it being a core game mechanic, restricting such a feature to a "talisman mode" seems like an artificial restriction. If this were to be implemented, a total-skill-limit may as well become a core gameplay feature.
I, too, don't think "max total number of skills" adds much towards regular gameplay. And it has the additional problem of how to display this. I really don't want to force people to count their skills in the regular gameplay (for talismans, I feel it's ok). So we kind of need a total skill counter just for this purpose, which takes up space in the game play area, and I am very hesitant about using such space for stuff with very questionable value.

Different idea then: We've got hatch markers. Maybe display the current RR there (with a lock icon for locked rates) could help players make the connection.
Simon tried this in Lix, and it wasn't really a success there. But on the other hand, NeoLemmix already has other hatch markers, so people may already be used to them.
There is a bigger issue though: When there is a number at a hatch, I would expect it to display the number of lemmings (still) coming out of this hatch, not the release rate. So in addition to the number itself (which might take up to three characters if using spawn intervals) we need a neat icon representing the release rate. All of that would result in a lot of markers floating around, and even now it feels to me like we are displaying too many icons around hatches.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 10:57:03 am »
Also, NeoLemmix still has changeable release rate, so it makes a lot of sense for indicators of the current RR to be grouped with the buttons that modify it.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 10:50:26 pm »
I'm seeing this for the first time now, thanks to Proxima for linking it to me! ;)

This does look much better - but only because the talisman info takes up so much of the space. Without it, now that the release rate info is removed, it would look even more empty than before. Less squashed perhaps, but still empty.
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Offline Proxima

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2018, 01:17:51 pm »
I think it could still do with further improvement.

There's a small space between the level title and position, since these are closely related, then a larger space before the number of lemmings. Similarly, there's a larger space separating the talisman info from the rest. But these two larger spaces aren't the same size. Together with the compressed spacing within the talisman info, that's four different spacing sizes in a single display. And the biggest problem is still that the top line is too close to the level image.

Do we really need the "Press mouse button to continue" line? I would drop that to give the rest more space to spread out. (Either that, or allow talismans to have only one restriction, with "at most N of each skill" still allowed. I like that idea anyway for simplicity, but I don't know to what extent that would affect existing packs.)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 01:50:48 pm by Proxima »

Offline Nepster

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Re: [Sug][Player] Adding a bit more space between lines in pre level screen
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2018, 06:08:45 pm »
While I really value your input and your points do make sense, I have to say one thing:
This situation is exactly why I wanted people to post mock-ups of their preferred preview screen up-front, so that we can discuss the best layout before I do any changes. Personally I don't really care about the layout and I don't really want to adapt it every version until we find a layout everyone is happy with.

Upshot is: Don't expect any further changes soon, unless a lot of people chime in and ask for the same things.