[NeoLemmix] Lemmings Plus Omega II

[namida]

This topic has been closed as LPO2 has been out for a while now. Further updates / discussion will be in the general Lemmings Plus series topic.

Alright, so it's been a while, but it's finally time to release this!

Lemmings Plus Omega II is the latest entry in the Lemmings Plus series. 70 new levels using the Lemmings Plus IV and Lemmings Plus V graphic sets. And be warned - these are HARD!

Lemmings Plus Omega II consists of four ranks - Fluffy, Coarse, Spiky and Sharp. The first two ranks have 15 levels each, while the last two have 20 each. Difficulty picks up quickly; even more so than Lemmings Plus V, this pack does not have many easy filler levels at the start.

Thanks to Akseli, IchoTolot, Wafflem and zanzindorf for prerelease testing.

Some Level Previews (click to show/hide)

Fluffy 1 "Easy As A, Bee, C"


Coarse 5 "Tactical Drops"


Spiky 1 "Ain't Over Til The Fat Man Sings"


Sharp 9 "Lem 51"

You can download this pack here: http://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?program=26 (Current version: V1.04)


Should also work well with V10.13.XX experimentals.

Enjoy!

[namida]

Level list: http://www.neolemmix.com/?page=levels&game=26&rank=all

Intended (or at least acceptable) solutions have been found to all levels.
As far as I know, all the bronze and silver talismans have been achieved, but only one of the gold talismans (the "beat the final level") one has been.


Talismans
Save every lemming on Fluffy 5 "Backroute THIS!".
Complete Fluffy 14 "Faster Than Light" without blockers or bashers.
Save every lemming on Coarse 3 "A Mind Of Their Own".
Complete Coarse 6 "The Arcade" in under 1 minute 30 seconds.
Save at least 19 lemming on Spiky 8 "The Workshop".
Complete Fluffy 1 "Easy As A, Bee, C" with no more than 9 builders, and no skills other than builders.
Save every lemming on Fluffy 3 "There Had To Be ONE..." while only assigning skills to one lemming.
Save at least 19 lemmings on Coarse 5 "Tactical Drops".
Save at least 28 lemmings on Spiky 14 "Hot Plate".
Save every lemming on Fluffy 15 "Drop Them Lems Again".
Complete Sharp 19 "Struck Out" in under 2 minutes 30 seconds.
Complete Sharp 20 "The Lem Goldberg Contraption".

Level name references (click to show/hide)

Note: This list does not include obvious bee puns, unless there's another reference in the name too. Also, there may be solution spoilers ahead.

Fluffy 3 "There Had To Be ONE..." - The name refers to that this is an X-of-everything level, which I said there'd be very few of in LPO2. (It is in fact not the only one; Fluffy 15 is also an X-of-everything level.)
Fluffy 4 "Dual Destinies" - A reference to the Ace Attorney game of the same name.
Fluffy 5 "Backroute THIS!" - Refers to that the level's solutions intentionally feel very backroute-y.
Fluffy 15 "Drop Them Lems Again" - A reference to Puzzling 30 from the original Lemmings Plus Omega, "Drop Them Lems". This level is very similar to that one.

Coarse 1 "Space Oddity" - A reference to the David Bowie song of the same name.
Coarse 7 "Race Condition" - A technical computing term that somewhat relates to a problem likely to be encountered while trying to solve this level.
Coarse 13 "Oh No! Space Zombies!" - A reference to both Oh No! More Lemmings! and the trope of "Space (thing)".
Coarse 14 "USS Lemterprise" - A reference to the USS Enterprise from Halo.
Coarse 15 "The Troublesome Trio Strike Back" - A reference to Mental 28 from the original Lemmings Plus Omega, "The Troublesome Trio". Like that level, this one involves three lemmings and all must be saved.

Spiky 1 "Ain't Over Til The Fat Man Sings" - A play on both the saying "Ain't over til the fat lady sings" and the Fat Man nuclear bomb.
Spiky 5 "Mushroom Rock Road" - A reference to Final Fantasy X.
Spiky 12 "Just Another Lem In The Wall" - A play on "Just Another Brick In The Wall".
Spiky 15 "Don't Forget!" - A hint that the trick used in this level shows up again in another one.

Sharp 9 "Lem 51" - A play on "Area 51".
Sharp 11 "Impossible, You Say?" - This was inspired by someone saying a certain trick would be impossible to perform, so I found a way to do it and made this level around it.
Sharp 12 "Drawing Dead" - Comes from Poker terminology, where "drawing dead" means you can't win no matter what the remaining cards turn out to be.
Sharp 13 "It's Zombie Time!" - A reference to Mayhem 3 "It's Hero Time" from original Lemmings, which this level strongly resembles (it even has a 1-of-everything skillset, though not the same 8 skills).
Sharp 14 "Death Trap" - Only mentioning this one because someone asked about it; this one is in fact not a reference to anything but just a generic name.
Sharp 17 "Broken Arrow" - A term that refers to an event involving the theft or loss of a nuclear weapon.
Sharp 20 "The Lem Goldberg Contraption" - A reference to Rube Goldberg contraptions, which are those machines that take a huge number of ridiculous steps to perform a relatively simple task. Arguably, the level's solution also somewhat feels like this.

[nin10doadict]

Looks pretty neat so far. True to my word, I've started recording videos of me playing through it. Here's the link to the first one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1YpwVjabE&feature=youtu.be
Yes, this post is a shameless self-plug.

[namida]

Nice, off to a good start there.

[namida]

Released a V1.01 update. This update has backroute fixes in the following levels:

Coarse 15 "The Troublesome Trio Strike Back"
Sharp 12 "Drawing Dead"
Sharp 16 "Lemming Mangler"

[namida]

Released a V1.02 update. This update has one backroute-fixed level:

Sharp 12 "Drawing Dead"

This level should be solid now. No new backroutes have been found in the other levels that were fixed in V1.01 (or any other levels).

[Nepster]

I played through the pack and solved 63 of the 70 levels. Of the remaining ones I skipped three due to too much zombies or radiation objects. Replays are attached.

Comments on the levels: Warning: Some of the comments are spoilers!

Fluffy (click to show/hide)

1) Harder than the following levels.
2) Usual intro level for a new skill. Nothing special.
3) Lots of building/platforming and not enough of other skills, in my opinion.
4) Unnecessary vertical scrolling.
5) If it weren't for the title, I would say I backrouted this. One of the easiest levels.
6) Not really special.
7) Again nothing special here, but good to see the bee-trap introduced here.
8) Nice level and the first real puzzle. Should come later in the pack.
9) Another level that is harder than its position suggests, because there are a lot of possibilites and the fencer position is non-intuitive.
10) Lots of very precise basher assignments. If it were slightly smaller, it would be better.
11) Pretty straight-forward.
12) Another straight-forward level, which could to with some decoration.
13) Argh! The timing to avoid the zombee is extremely annoying.
14) Not an original level. The C++ version of the Lix lemforum pack has a very similar one and I remember a Lemmix level, too.
15) Huge, but actually one of the easiest levels in the whole pack. I wouldn't mind seeing this as the very first level.

Coarse (click to show/hide)

1) Nice level idea, but aesthetically not very pleasing. May be moved to a later position.
2) I am pretty sure I backrouted this one.
3) Pretty easy level, but clever idea.
4) Much harder than its position, because of the extremely precise timing and RR fiddling.
5) Nice idea, but the RR fiddling at the beginning is very annoying. Perhaps move the preplaced lemming a bit farther away, so that there is a little bit more space to place the second lemming killed by the trap?
6) I am always confused by what is steel resp. usual terrain in this style. Why not give a tiny little bit more breathing space at the right edge?
7) Very good level. I had the correct idea very fast, but then never managed to place the builder correctly and therefore looked for different solutions. Am I correct that the builder has to be placed pixel-precise? Plaese make that drop a few pixels shorter!
8) First of all: The bars above the exit look like steel, especially when compared to the steel bars in Coarse 6. Moreover there are lots of possible ways to execute the correct idea, but only very few actually work.
9) Nice idea, but I am not really a fan of this level: The bomber has to be placed very precisely, the floater is only used to save the 25th lemming and has no other function, and the end requires some ugly trial and error.
10) Too large for my taste, especially as much time is just spent waiting for the lemmings to finish their tasks. The digger placement is pixel-precise while it doesn't need to be.
11) Great level here!
12) Pretty straight-forward. Should be in Fluffy.
13) Unsolved and much harder than much of Spiky. My idea requires frame-precise coordination of two lemmings with no way to time then in advance. Why zombies instead of water? With water one knows that there are no little spaces without a trap trigger area.
14) Much harder than its position, as the little delay doesn't look as it were sufficient. But the whole level could very well fit into a single screen.
15) Why the time limit? Moreover there should be markers on top of the hatch that the lemmings have preassinged skills. Otherwise a great level. And I am still confusing the orange water with the dark yellow terrain.

Spiky (click to show/hide)

1) Unsolved. Should be moved much later.
2) This on the other hand was very easy and could be moved to Coarse. Good level though.
3) Very good level.
4) Getting lemming to dive below the rock was annoying.
5) Not sure whether my solution is exactly intended.
6) Very nice level, but the timing was pretty annoying. Why not make the blue block slightly thinner, so that the blocker can be freed earlier?
7) Unsolved. Should be moved later.
8) The time limit is very annoying here and feels unnecessary. Otherwise nice level.
9) I don't like this level. No discernable level idea, just lots of fiddling around until one saves enough lemmings.
10) Very easy level because there is only one possible approach. It should be end-Fluffy or beginning of Coarse.
11) We already had very similar levels in previous LP packs, just with the fencer replaced by a miner.
12) Nice level.
13) I am 100% sure that my solution is a backroute.
14) Very good level. I just wish there was a bit more space at the bottom, so that placing the second blocker becomes easier. Right now I needed several tries until the lemmings weren't grouped too close together in order to block all of them from entering the teleporter.
15) I suspect a backroute. My solution requires a lot of precise skill assignments and has not really a idea behind it.
16) Nice level, though I really don't know what the teleporter does in this level? If all the stuff at the top would be removed, then this would look much better, too.
17) I really, really hope to never ever have to use this trick again. I kind of expected this level, but it turned out to require much more precision than expected.
18) This really looks like a level that has undergone heavy backroute-fixing. And given my use of platformer-miner, I still suspect a backroute.
19) Clever idea, but the timing is horrible, especially as the lemming group hits the end of the miner tunnel just when it connects to the digger shaft. This prevents turning the digger into the blocker, unless one is very very careful.
20) Nice idea, but the time limit is extremely annoying here. I would really wish for a few more seconds.

Sharp (click to show/hide)

1) Somehow I expected a more difficult level, given the terrain layout, all the buttons and pick-up skills.
2) Nice level, but somhow I have one walker left.
3) Unsolved. Sorry, I hate radiation objects.
4) I suspect a backroute, because it feels too easy with too much terrain of unknown purpose.
5) Very clever level, but I wonder whether one can relax the timing at the beginning slightly, so that one can solve the level even if the basher continues instead of the digger.
6) Again a nice idea, but the very precise positioning of the climber to separate one lemming from the group and the annoying time limit are less fun.
7) Nice to have lots of approaches in this level. But again it's far larger than it has to be.
8) That level was fun. The only problem was to position the digger as I couldn't see the bottom of the shaft to determine whether the digger stops or not.
9) I had a very nice solution, that took about 10 sec. too long. So here is an ugly one that doesn't even use the glider.
10) Very nice level.
11) Nice idea, even though the miner/blocker placement needs precision. What I don't understand is why you require the digger to be pixel-precise combined with RR-fiddling to avoind turning the climber into a blocker.
12) Great level, but I suspect that saving 20/20 and not using the stoner is probably not intended.
13) Unsolved. This time I cannot ignore the zombie, so I skipped the level.
14) This might yet be another backroute.
15) This was a fun level.
16) Unsolved.
17) Great level.
18) Unsolved. I can save 5 lemmings, but not 6.
19) Too big for my taste, but otherwise fine.
20) A bit of a disappointment: Straight-forward solution with just building to the exit with one worker lemming.

[namida]

Extremely minor spoiler on Sharp 3, which may change whether or not you want to try and solve it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is at least one accepted solution that does not require any use of radiation beyond avoiding lemmings dying from it. (Of course, there are also solutions that do make use of it.)

Will look through your replays later today. From the comments, some of them definitely do sound like backroutes (eg. Sharp 12, Sharp 20).

[Akseli]

Comments based on Nepster's comments:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Coarse13: Oh No! Space Zombies - Neither did I solve this during the whole pre-release testing. And it was in Spiky rating there, now it's even earlier? Of course, in my opinion it's hard to estimate difficulty of a level before solving it.
Spiky1: Ain't Over Til The Fat Man Sings - Yes, it took a while from me to solve this in pre-release testing, there were many solution approaches to try out. Might have only one working solution.
Spiky17: Brute Force - Yeah, I didn't solve this during the pre-release phase, even though I think I'm sure what to do.
Sharp3: Ground Zero - My solution was fiddly and hard to pull off relying on luck.
Sharp11: Impossible, You Say? - I had similar thoughts with avoiding to turn the climber into a blocker, but maybe namida feels that that really belongs to the level.

[namida]

Alright, taken a look at the replays now.

If I don't comment on a level that you didn't list as unsolved, assume that the solution is intended / acceptable *and* I don't have any specific response to your comments.

Fluffy (click to show/hide)

1. Even including replays that achieve the talisman (solve with 9 builders and nothing else), I think this is the most complicated solution I've seen so far for this level.
4. That's really dependant on screen / window size and zoom level. For me (1920x1080 resolution, 4x zoom, fullscreen) the entire relevant area of the level fits on screen at once.
5. This is interesting, because I originally had this level as Fluffy 2 or Fluffy 3 at various points throughout testing, but kept getting feedback that it should be moved at least a little bit back. I too felt it was very easy (as you can tell from the original position), hence why I didn't move it very far.
6. The point of this level is to introduce the one-way-up arrows, so it shouldn't be particularly special.
9. This level has at least three different solutions (may even be more, don't remember off-hand), so it's hard to judge difficulty based off any specific one solution.
13. It is possible to get rid of the top zombie rather than time the release to avoid it, but everyone seems to go the timing route.
14. I'm not surprised that this idea has been used before. This was one of those levels that got made during the "last few levels rush".
15. Passing the level is easy, for sure. 100%ing it (a talisman challenge), on the other hand... I don't actually think anyone other than myself has achieved it yet.

Coarse (click to show/hide)

1. This level actually got moved back (from about mid-Coarse) based on feedback from testers that it was too easy for the position (and that the level I originally had as Coarse 1, which is now Coarse 10, was too hard for the position).
2. Yep, that's a backroute, and one I'm VERY surprised didn't come up sooner now that I see it.
4. Intended solution involves somewhat precise timing but no RR changes (apart from an optional change to RR99 at the end). Your solution is still acceptable, though.
5. That's probably not a bad idea.
7. Yeah, probably should shorten it.
8. Most of the ways being blocked are due to that leaving them unblocked also enables other backroutes.
9. The glider (which I assume is what you meant) seems "only used to save the 25th lemming" because of the way you set up that end part. I don't think I need to make any changes here as it isn't a critical difference, but the intended way is to have the glider glide into the fencer tunnel while the builder is working, so that it can patch the gap at the right before any further lemmings arrive.
10. I wouldn't personally think the waiting times here are too bad (especially with fast-forward and frameskip); the level still finishes in under 2 minutes total.
11. Interesting; this is actually one of the ones I'm personally not so fond of.
12. Okay, that's due to a mistake on my end: the lemmings that fall into that area where you trapped them should fall into the water and drown.
13. It sounds to me like you might be overcomplicating this one. And once you find the solution, you will understand why water would not work.
14. The concept could - I got the idea from the bomber-free solution I found a while back to Tricky 18 of Orig. However, the main focus of this level is quite clearly on the artistic value rather than purely on the puzzle, which is the main reason for the size.
15. The time limit is for backroute prevention. The very original version of this level prior to any fixes did indeed have no time limit.

Spiky (click to show/hide)

1. This is an interesting case. All of the prerelease testers who tried this level managed to pass it and most even thought it was easy, which I guess shows the difference between solving a level after seeing pre-backroute-fix versions vs solving it for the first time in its final state. This level was initially placed in Spiky, during testing was moved to Coarse for a while, and in the final version ended up back in Spiky again.
2. And then, an immediate counterexample to the previous point - this one was originally in Fluffy, but after fixes, I kept getting feedback it was too hard for even Coarse.
5. I'd consider this solution acceptable, though it isn't the exact intended solution.
6. Starting the basher earlier addresses the tightness of the timing. (The miner does seem tight, but it more or less times itself.)
7. This isn't one I expected you to not solve. o_O
9. This is one of those "anything goes if it works" type levels, rather than one with a central idea as such. Your solution is yet another new one.
10. This is another one that kept getting moved later and later in the pack because of feedback that it was too hard for its position. Even in the final order, one tester was surprised it didn't get put in Sharp.
13. Yes, that's definitely a backroute.
15. Yeah, this one is a backroute too.
16. Backroute.
17. Yeah, that's why I only put this trick in a level featuring it and nothing else, rather than building it into a more complicated puzzle. Almost a "yes, I know this is possible; no, it's not a good trick to integrate into a larger level" example.
18. No, your solution here is perfectly fine. There are a few ways to set up the end so that even climbers turn around - my way was to mine down the exit platform's side, platform across, and have a cloned lemming build at the top of the wall to stop any further climbers going up there.
19. The blocker trigger area has enough height to not make this too much of a problem usually, although I didn't encounter problems with this myself. I do notice that you RR99'd a fair bit later than I did, though.
20. Yeah, I know the time limit is really tight, but even a tiny bit more leniency has lead to backroutes.

Sharp (click to show/hide)

2. Not intended. I need to think more about this one before deciding whether to declare it a backroute or not, though I am leaning towards yes (it is one).
3. See above post. I know you hate spoilers so I tried to keep it as vague as possible while still explaining why you probably won't hate this level as much as you're thinking now.
4. Not a backroute. Just slightly different timings than the intended solution.
5. That would require shortening the gap, no? Originally the gap only required two builders to pass, but this lead to backroutes as the second lemming didn't need to be delayed nearly as long. I didn't go as far as testing exactly what the cutoff gap size is to avoid them - just that the size of the gap now is big enough.
6. Backroute.
7. There's a lot of approaches that look like they might lead somewhere, but this is (as far as I know) the only approach that actually does work.
9. Backroute.
10. Another borderline case, though this one I'm leaning a little bit more towards the "acceptable" side.
11. RR fiddling is not nessecary. I don't know if it remains true in the final version, but at least at some point during the designing / testing of this level, the choice appeared to be either tight digger placement, or backroutes. (It's worth noting the early version had one extra builder, which I later found was unnessecary.)
12. Yeah, backroute. And no matter how good this solution may seem, it's getting fixed, because the intended solution to this level is even more impressive.
14. Damn, I thought I finally got this level solid, but appears not (this is one of the levels that was extremely backroute-prone during testing). This is gonna be a hard one to fix too...
15. Another borderline case.
18. I know you don't like hints so I won't give any. I'll just mention that the only person who's solved this level so far did mention that, once all the backroutes were fixed, they think this is the pack's hardest level.
19. Interesting. This solution is somewhat of a hybrid between mine and IchoTolot's, perhaps a bit closer to mine than his.
20. Major backroute, though I'm sure you already guessed that.

[IchoTolot]

Ok, about Sharp 3:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I really don't know where your problem is on this level. At least I found a solution which does not involve radiation or luck. The radiation was simply an obstacle I avoided. It's clear and fair.

Nepster's comment about Coarse 13:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Really that one is a problem? I basically suggested swapping it with the Spiky Zombie level, because it was an instant solve for me, while the other one involved some thinking. Sharp 13 on the other hand was one of the most difficult levels in the pack.

EDIT: Yep spent a lot of time solving Sharp 18. Hardest + best level of the pack!

[Nepster]

Here are solutions to the two remaining Spiky levels.

[namida]

Both are intended.

[namida]

After some more thought, I've decided against fixing Coarse 2 (since anyone who can find this solution likely wouldn't have that much trouble with the intended one anyway, and it'll be very tricky to fix, and it's a fairly early level in the pack) and Sharp 10 (at least for now). I'll put an update up soon.

[namida]

Update has now been uploaded.

V1.03, fixes backroutes in:
- Coarse 12 "Lemming All-Sorts"
- Spiky 13 "Zombie Fence"
- Spiky 15 "Don't Forget!"
- Spiky 16 "The Prototype"
- Sharp 2 "Cop This!"
- Sharp 6 "It's Not Meant To Bee"
- Sharp 9 "Lem 51"
- Sharp 12 "Drawing Dead"
- Sharp 14 "Death Trap"
- Sharp 15 "A Huge Incon-bee-nience"
- Sharp 20 "The Lem Goldberg Contraption" (also adds a lot more decoration in this level)