Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!  (Read 28975 times)

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Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2016, 08:53:34 pm »
I'll post hints and solution here so anyone else can see if they want/need.
This level is quite unique and difficult. It requires a good understanding of the game, but nothing glitchy.

HINTS:
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big spoilers:
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SOLUTION:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Let me know if this is not sufficient, if you don't understand anything. When I made this pack this was before I started making replays of everything [and keeping them organized].
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #106 on: March 06, 2016, 05:46:55 pm »
​Since secret levels triggers are being removed, what are we to do with the secret levels themselves?

What I think should happen is that all secret levels should be moved among the regular levels. These includes the secret levels that are unlocked by talisman. If one hasn't noticed yet, the secret levels unlocked by talismans only occur in the first four ranks, and it is very difficult to make talismans for the later ranks.

An advantage of doing this is that people won't be missing out on the secret levels, because many of these are of excellent quality like Into the Countree and Tier Drops.

This, however, can cause an uneven number of levels in each rank (i.e. Picnic has 33 levels, Hootenanny has 34 levels, Carnage has 32 levels, etc.). I'm wondering if we should even this out, by either removing unnecessary levels or adding more, or if we should leave it as is.

Another issue - what do we do with Cheapo-converted levels like Picnic 24 "Minesweeper Lemmings", Devious 18 "Lemmings of Persia" and Armageddon 12 "The Hotel in Hell"?
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Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #107 on: March 06, 2016, 07:28:17 pm »
​Since secret levels triggers are being removed, what are we to do with the secret levels themselves?

What I think should happen is that all secret levels should be moved among the regular levels. These includes the secret levels that are unlocked by talisman. If one hasn't noticed yet, the secret levels unlocked by talismans only occur in the first four ranks, and it is very difficult to make talismans for the later ranks.

An advantage of doing this is that people won't be missing out on the secret levels, because many of these are of excellent quality like Into the Countree and Tier Drops.

This, however, can cause an uneven number of levels in each rank (i.e. Picnic has 33 levels, Hootenanny has 34 levels, Carnage has 32 levels, etc.). I'm wondering if we should even this out, by either removing unnecessary levels or adding more, or if we should leave it as is.

Another issue - what do we do with Cheapo-converted levels like Picnic 24 "Minesweeper Lemmings", Devious 18 "Lemmings of Persia" and Armageddon 12 "The Hotel in Hell"?

If people don't like there being an odd number of levels in the rank, Another option is to add them to a new rank. I'm not sure how this can work with the talisman achievements however.
If anybody wants to work on this immediately; remember this is an open source project, just ask me for info and I'll give you the tools to work on it. I don't really have much time to do it now, myself.

Why do we need to do anything with Cheapo-converted levels?
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
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"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #108 on: March 06, 2016, 07:32:05 pm »
Why do we need to do anything with Cheapo-converted levels?

Because, apparently, these levels have been set to "Cheapo Mode", which changes the max fall distance. This should not have been done in the first place -- it's not fair on the player to vary max fall distance within a level pack without warning -- and namida has said the feature will be removed from NeoLemmix.

All the levels in question are mine, so I'm happy to take a look at them and decide how best to change them to keep the concepts as close as possible to the originals.

Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #109 on: March 06, 2016, 07:35:24 pm »
oh, that's a big mistake. I don't remember doing that, at least not on purpose.

ACtually, unfortunately I can't remember doing these at all  :XD: . Did I re-create the levels or convert them with the converter [so that they're large images?] I know Hotel in hell is like this, but I thought I re-created the others.
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #110 on: March 06, 2016, 07:52:34 pm »
I believe that you recreated SeriousGamer/Ben Bryant's levels and some of Proxima's (like Carnage 6 "Behind Bars"), but directly converted the ones like Minesweeper Lemmings and The Hotel In Hell from Cheapo.

Anyway, if we are going to move secret levels to regular ranks, should we include Frenzy 31 "The Land of Nightmares"? I'm not too sure about this one because it would be very frustrating finding where the exit is (and even I haven't beaten that one yet). I'm very impressed with the design of the level though and the mixture of the three VGASpec levels.
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #111 on: March 06, 2016, 08:19:25 pm »
Proxima is okay with removing Land of Nightmares altogether. I sent him his levels so he can review them. Those were the only ones that had this cheapo issue.
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #112 on: March 07, 2016, 01:12:17 am »
It's up to you whether you think the level is worth keeping. If you don't like the hidden-exit aspect, you could move the exit directly up until the trigger is exposed.

I've just tested the problematic levels. Unfortunately Waltz in C Sharp Miner (the harder version of Minesweeper) and The Hotel in Hell are broken due to the shorter safe fall distance when Cheapo Mode is turned off. (Also, the direct conversion of The Hotel in Hell has made it a vertical scrolling level, which it shouldn't be.) Lemmings of Persia is still solvable, but maybe not 100%able. Minesweeper Lemmings is fine as it's 20-of-all.

I'll find some way to fix all these as soon as I can :)

Offline namida

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!
« Reply #113 on: March 07, 2016, 09:36:25 am »
Quote
(Also, the direct conversion of The Hotel in Hell has made it a vertical scrolling level, which it shouldn't be.)

This is because standard height of a level in Cheapo is 200px, whereas in NL it's 160px.

Another problem with Cheapo levels is that Cheapo doesn't save a list of terrain pieces and locations; it saves a single huge bitmap. That's why conversions use VGASPECs. This does of course make them hard to edit; though fortunately NL supports mixing VGASPECs and regular terrain (including erasers, if need be) in a single level.