Author Topic: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?  (Read 12222 times)

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Offline Gronkling

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 12:57:14 am »
I probably won't convert my levels to neolemmix myself, as a lot of them are less actual puzzles but more exploring quirks and glitches that appear only in lemmini therefore they wouldn't work in another engine. But if you need the permission to do anything to the other levels I really don't mind. If I design levels in the future they're going to be in neolemmix anyway, I'm done with lemmini :P
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 07:06:53 pm »
Half of Ben Conway's levels are updated to NeoLemmix and only one outtake due to glitches so far :laugh:. However two other issues came up:
1) I noticed a few typos in level titles. So far I kept them in their original form, because I fear to miss some insider jokes and want to avoid changing intended titles.
2) Some levels become much harder in NeoLemmix due to changes in game mechanics. As long as they are still solvable, I kept them in their original form. If they become impossible due to different mechanics (but do not use glitches), I felt free to apply the minimum changes needed to make them solvable again.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2016, 05:37:57 pm »
I have a few questions mainly about whether some levels are still solvable in NeoLemmix:

1tseug.dat - NULL
ccexplore's solution (see here) does no longer work in NeoLemmix. However a completely different approach still works in NeoLemmix, such that one can save 72 instead of 78 lemmings.
Question: Should I update this level with the reduced save requirement of 72 lemmings? Of course the readme would describe this change and the reason for it.
EDIT: Actually managed to save 77 lemmings in NeoLemmix now, but this is the theoretical maximum of this approach.

1tseug.dat - Rush Hour (click to show/hide)

elfpak01.dat - BL CK FR ME (click to show/hide)

elfpak01.dat - Fortress 13 (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 06:42:08 pm by Nepster »

Offline namida

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2016, 06:47:41 pm »
It may be worth posting the LVL files of your conversions, so people can try them and see what actually works in NeoLemmix, rather than trying in vanilla and having to guess if it will still work in NeoLemmix (even if there's away around the obvious difference, some levels - especially those involving a lot of precision - may end up impossible and/or backrouted due to more-subtle differences).

Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2016, 07:06:58 pm »
I do any such solvability tests before I change anything in the level (and check afterwards that the solutions still work).
Attached the levels, loaded in the NeoLemmix editor and saved without any changes.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2016, 12:25:19 pm »
I decided to do the following:

1tseug.dat - NULL: I will update it and propose it for inclusion in the NeoLemmix community level pack. As the level now requires a completely different level, I don't feel comfortable including it in the conversion pack.

1tseug.dat - Rush Hour: Until someone shows me that this trick is possible, this level will be completely removed from the conversion pack.

elfpak01.dat - BL CK FR ME: I changed the terrain slightly to adapt for the different mechanics. If someone shows me a NeoLemmix solution for the original terrain layout, I will change this back.

elfpak01.dat - Fortress 13: I included this level (in an updated form) in an extra rank "Undecided" which includes a warning that the level might be impossible.

Offline Wafflem

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2016, 03:29:30 am »
Thanks for converting all these levels from Lemmix to NeoLemmix! :thumbsup:

I am wondering - if you're going to convert TimFoxxy's levels, should you use the ones in the database, or this one? I believe the one in the link has more up-to-date levels, and there may be even levels in the link that do not appear in the database.
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Offline mobius

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2016, 07:53:09 pm »
Crane's site, Garjen.com [or something similar to that?] has or had lots of old downloads and notes people wrote about their levels. At least ISteve and some others that I saw had notes. Those might be helpful.

1tseug.dat - Rush Hour: -- I haven't tried recently but I did a while ago and I couldn't get it to work. At least it is even harder than on old Lemmix. I seem to recall noticing small differences in basher or miner behavior that would support this.
We're not even certain ccx solution is the intended solution to this level but it probably is or at least similar.
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2016, 09:21:01 pm »
I am wondering - if you're going to convert TimFoxxy's levels, should you use the ones in the database, or this one? I believe the one in the link has more up-to-date levels, and there may be even levels in the link that do not appear in the database.
The pack in your link contains more levels in original styles than the level packs in the database, but fewer ONML-style levels :-\. I haven't yet compared them to the VanClan level pack...
My plan is to have the VanClan lemmings in the first four ranks (but using the updated levels from your link whenever possible), then a rank with the rest of the levels from your link. After that I will just see what levels remain...

Crane's site, Garjen.com [or something similar to that?] has or had lots of old downloads and notes people wrote about their levels. At least ISteve and some others that I saw had notes. Those might be helpful.
I already know of www.garjen.co.uk, but help is only available for Crane's and InsaneSteve's levels. Both are still moderately active one the forum, so their level packs have very low priority, if I update their levels at all.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2016, 08:10:22 pm »
I am currently updating the CHRISFN??.dat level packs. There are two levels that I have no clue how they can be solvable in either Lemmix or NeoLemmix. See attached levels. The first two digits give the level pack and the last two digits the level within the level pack, if anyone wants to check them out in the original .dat.
Does anyone have solutions to either one?

Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2016, 02:42:00 pm »
I am finished with the rest of the CHRISFN levels now and would like to create the level pack. Has anyone made progress with the two levels attached to the previous post? If not, I will probably remove these two levels.

Offline Wafflem

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2016, 08:10:05 pm »
It looks like the levels are unsolvable and impossible. I've tried them myself. These levels were made way long ago as far as maybe 2000 (I got the levels from the Garjen website) so I don't know if Cristóbal Márquez and Alfonso Celis are both active (chances of which are very unlikely). Their email is in the Garjen website though if you want to try contacting them, but I'm not sure if that even still works.

For packs that have different authors for each level like this one and this one, what should we do with them? Should we just create one NXP for each compilation pack? Also, in that link, Sculpture Maze already appears in one of Tumble Weed's packs, so I'm not even sure if we should leave that there. Training Course by Conway, I'm not sure if that appears in any other pack.

There may also be packs that have a mix of authors who are still active in the community, and authors who are no longer active. Assuming we are still under the rule that only packs whose authors have not been around for a long time are okay to convert, this can be problematic. For example, this one has two levels by namida and Insane Steve. Insane Steve's appears in one of his packs. Out of the Frying Pan has already been used in Conway's pack, which leaves "Spider-Bytes" and "the union of two mates" by unknown authors. What should we do with the two levels by unknwon authors?

2. Should we also have Lemmini levels converted, especially since they also appear in the level database?
As far as I can see, most Lemmini levels are from Gronkling and grams88. Both are still active here, so this question is probably less important than one might expect.
There is at least one Lemmini author whose packs can be converted - Mariachi Skeletron Prime's. He's not active in the forum these days despite joining late 2014 (he didn't make an account for the new forum).

As a side note, looks like my Scattered Levelpacks project really paid off. :)
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline Nepster

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2016, 08:37:10 pm »
For packs that have different authors for each level like this one and this one, what should we do with them? Should we just create one NXP for each compilation pack? Also, in that link, Sculpture Maze already appears in one of Tumble Weed's packs, so I'm not even sure if we should leave that there. Training Course by Conway, I'm not sure if that appears in any other pack.
My plan was to have one .nxp collecting all the contest levels and community packs. I think we can have an exception to the rule here and update even levels of people that are still active. Of course I will get their OK first before releasing the .nxp.
And I see no problem in having a few levels in two level packs. People who want to play contest levels might not be people who want to play Ben Conway's levels, and if they do they can simply skip the levels that are already known to them.

Quote
What should we do with the two levels by unknwon authors?
Updating them with level author=unknown. Why do you think they need special treatment?

Offline Wafflem

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2016, 08:54:19 pm »
Sounds like a very reasonable plan. :)
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline mobius

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Re: Update database Lemmix levels to NeoLemmix?
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2016, 10:20:15 pm »
Here's a lemmini pack that ought to be converted; Grentii (some #) I can't verify that all the levels are solvable but at least one of themy are and probably all; lemmings sold separately from revenge of the lemmings came from this pack
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
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"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
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